You think far too highly of yourself.DAC said:Sprite said:
Very fair article.
For all intents and purposes, this is Coach Rhule's first season on the job. It would be reckless and impatient to question the lack of results before another three years, at the earliest.
My boy's pee wee coach would have beat Liberty and he's usually drunk by halftime . Catch him on a sober day and he beats UTSA with that squad
Now to see what the Matt Rhule era at Baylor actually looks like
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Last: 4 yr ago by SATXBear
Yep, if o-line makes strides and team isn't ravaged by injury bug, a 6 win season is very reasonable.Mothra said:
Really good article, and I think a pretty fair assessment. We should win at least 6 games this year, and maybe even 1 or 2 more. I wouldn't be surprised if we shock a couple of teams this year. Hell, we very nearly shocked college football with wins over OU and WVU last year. Who's to say we don't win 1 (or 2) of those games this year? If Iowa State can have a quick turnaround, why not us?
I have been on record as saying the first couple of games were inexcusable and I didn't like CMR's approach of burning down the building, but I think this team is going to be vastly improved this year. Let's wait and see.
That's correct. But if you have superior talent and a whole off season to prepare and you don't win when its important to establish credibility (twice in a row), what does that say?Quote:
The list of coaches that haven't suffered embarrassing losses is virtually non existent.
To those who say that we would not have lost to Liberty at the end of the season:
1) Why did we wait until the end of the season to play well enough to beat Liberty? Alternatively why was the coaching instruction and decision making not sufficient at the beginning of the season?
2))Saying BU would have beaten Liberty at the end of the season is rank speculation. Perhaps we would have won but perhaps not. We didn't play the games that way so we don't know.
They play the games to find out who will win. Come September 1 we'll start finding out again. Like somebody or another said, put it on paper.
Illigitimus non carborundum
What does it say? Says we got beat. What does it tell us going forward? Maybe something, maybe nothing.CorsicanaBear said:That's correct. But if you have superior talent and a whole off season to prepare and you don't win when its important to establish credibility (twice in a row), what does that say?Quote:
The list of coaches that haven't suffered embarrassing losses is virtually non existent.
To those who say that we would not have lost to Liberty at the end of the season:
1) Why did we wait until the end of the season to play well enough to beat Liberty? Alternatively why was the coaching instruction and decision making not sufficient at the beginning of the season?
2))Saying BU would have beaten Liberty at the end of the season is rank speculation. Perhaps we would have won but perhaps not. We didn't play the games that way so we don't know.
They play the games to find out who will win. Come September 1 we'll start finding out again. Like somebody or another said, put it on paper.
I think we would have all preferred to play the way we did in November right out today of the gate. Would have finished 3-9 or 4-8...nothing to write home about, but much easier to stomach than 1-11. Unfortunately sports don't work that way. Wish our 2012 team could have played the whole season like they did in November.
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Can we agree on the following points:
1- 2016 was a big talent drop off to begin with from 2015
2- Many of the prior staff really didn't try that hard over the last five regular season games
3- Even If healthy the 2017 squad was going to have a hard time replacing the combined contribution of Cannon, Zamora, Fuller, Linwood, Stewart, Levels, Blanchard, Reid, Edwards, and Russell.
4- 2017 was going to have a rough year with losing 23 guys for the year and 20+ for multiple games as well even if a healthy version of the squad might have done far better.
5- That isn't an excuse for losing the first two games.
6- After that the team was competitive in most of their games in spite of injuries and should be better in 2018.
1- 2016 was a big talent drop off to begin with from 2015
2- Many of the prior staff really didn't try that hard over the last five regular season games
3- Even If healthy the 2017 squad was going to have a hard time replacing the combined contribution of Cannon, Zamora, Fuller, Linwood, Stewart, Levels, Blanchard, Reid, Edwards, and Russell.
4- 2017 was going to have a rough year with losing 23 guys for the year and 20+ for multiple games as well even if a healthy version of the squad might have done far better.
5- That isn't an excuse for losing the first two games.
6- After that the team was competitive in most of their games in spite of injuries and should be better in 2018.
People are so ridiculous. Good coaches doesn't have embarrassing losses? What planet do people live on? For the record, in his first season at Bama Saban lost at home to Louisiana-Monroe.
Particularly are situation which was complete dumpster fire that Rhule took over. Implement dumpster fire in so many ways including the players left behind. We act like there was all this talent to work with last year. Oh really?? That's why so many freshman that Rhule recruited played last year even though they weren't ready? That's why of the 70 players on the sideline for KU game 20 of them were walk ons?
People need to get over the Liberty & UTSA losses. Who cares if we were 3-9 or 1-11 last year. Makes zero difference. The building needed to be knocked down to start again. In 3 years in the overall scheme of this program those two losses will not even be remembered except on Wikipedia for trivia facts.
Particularly are situation which was complete dumpster fire that Rhule took over. Implement dumpster fire in so many ways including the players left behind. We act like there was all this talent to work with last year. Oh really?? That's why so many freshman that Rhule recruited played last year even though they weren't ready? That's why of the 70 players on the sideline for KU game 20 of them were walk ons?
People need to get over the Liberty & UTSA losses. Who cares if we were 3-9 or 1-11 last year. Makes zero difference. The building needed to be knocked down to start again. In 3 years in the overall scheme of this program those two losses will not even be remembered except on Wikipedia for trivia facts.
I was all in on CMR from when he was announced until time ran out on the Liberty Game.
Now? I have a doubt.
Now? I have a doubt.
Illigitimus non carborundum
You gotta put it in perspective and let it go my man. The perspective is we was starting from ground zero. Liberty was just the 1st team we faced when completely changing a program and culture around. The best part the article that started this whole thread was the term "Year Zero". Couldn't have been more accurate.CorsicanaBear said:
I was all in on CMR from when he was announced until time ran out on the Liberty Game.
Now? I have a doubt.
Rhule didn't forget how to coach the minute the game clock hit 0:00 on Liberty game. So the substance has changed but the circumstances surely have as a result of coaching staffs and players effort. Also, the recruits Rhule has been able to get in most of the mess wouldn't come to Baylor if they didn't trust him.
The Liberty game means zero in big scheme of things when we look back. The trajectory of program already headed up regardless.
MilliVanilli said:You think far too highly of yourself.DAC said:Sprite said:
Very fair article.
For all intents and purposes, this is Coach Rhule's first season on the job. It would be reckless and impatient to question the lack of results before another three years, at the earliest.
My boy's pee wee coach would have beat Liberty and he's usually drunk by halftime . Catch him on a sober day and he beats UTSA with that squad
Go back to stalking college girls on Facebook
CorsicanaBear said:That's correct. But if you have superior talent and a whole off season to prepare and you don't win when its important to establish credibility (twice in a row), what does that say?Quote:
The list of coaches that haven't suffered embarrassing losses is virtually non existent.
To those who say that we would not have lost to Liberty at the end of the season:
1) Why did we wait until the end of the season to play well enough to beat Liberty? Alternatively why was the coaching instruction and decision making not sufficient at the beginning of the season?
2))Saying BU would have beaten Liberty at the end of the season is rank speculation. Perhaps we would have won but perhaps not. We didn't play the games that way so we don't know.
They play the games to find out who will win. Come September 1 we'll start finding out again. Like somebody or another said, put it on paper.
No, it isn't "rank speculation," it is wildly foolish to think they would not have beaten Liberty based on how the team played even a week later.
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Illigitimus non carborundum
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CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
so it rank speculation to say the team improved as the season moved along? Pretty sure that statement that can be backed up with objective numbers & stats and also by simply watching the game (obviously some subjectivity places into this "eye ball test")CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Think you conflating and confusing absolutes and the context of someone making the argument based on our play later in season we would have beaten team from earlier in season. He not saying it happened. He rationally making argument as to why. Not same as rank speculation. You need help with your definitions.
TheDom said:so it rank speculation to say the team improved as the season moved along? Pretty sure that statement that can be backed up with objective numbers & stats and also by simply watching the game (obviously some subjectivity places into this "eye ball test")CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Think you conflating and confusing absolutes and the context of someone making the argument based on our play later in season we would have beaten team from earlier in season. He not saying it happened. He rationally making argument as to why. Not same as rank speculation. You need help with your definitions.
Pure speculation on your part.
The play was pretty rank all season.
If the team play had improved later in the season, very few noticed. Most of us had tuned out after the third game. Many dialed out after the first game.
As Gene Stallings once muttered, "statistics are for losers". The only one that matters is the won-loss record which began with a 1 and ended with an 11, the last time I looked.
Let's play ball and see if it improves.
I'm a Bearbacker
I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Of course you didn't watch the games. Your posts reflect your generic uninformed knowledge of Baylor football.Stranger said:TheDom said:so it rank speculation to say the team improved as the season moved along? Pretty sure that statement that can be backed up with objective numbers & stats and also by simply watching the game (obviously some subjectivity places into this "eye ball test")CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Think you conflating and confusing absolutes and the context of someone making the argument based on our play later in season we would have beaten team from earlier in season. He not saying it happened. He rationally making argument as to why. Not same as rank speculation. You need help with your definitions.
Pure speculation on your part.
The play was pretty rank all season.
If the team play had improved later in the season, very few noticed. Most of us had tuned out after the third game. Many dialed out after the first game.
As Gene Stallings once muttered, "statistics are for losers". The only one that matters is the won-loss record which began with a 1 and ended with an 11, the last time I looked.
Let's play ball and see if it improves.
This post was no different. Per usual, you provided lack of any insight and/or context.
Try and actually follow the team this coming season before you post and embarrass yourself, per usual.
I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
Where did I say we weren't better? I have said multiple times that we were completely horrible at the beginning of the season (on the level of a middle of the road FCS team) and we improved enough to be awful (one of bottom teams in division 1). We absolutely improved as the year went on. We were still a pretty bad team at the end of the year. Those two statements aren't contradictory.TheDom said:Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
Unfortunately this is a long off season. Unfortunately we finished 1-11, far below EVERYONES expectations... what sucks is we have around 81 days before we can either allievate or validate a lot of people's fears. Personally I'm on the side of giving CMR a mulligan for year one, regardless if I think 1-11 was acceptable (it wasn't). Two good recruiting classes and a previous record are my only views for the mulligan year.
The joys of an 1-11 season with a fan base already broken before that does not help but I'm really hoping not every conversation, both on FB and Premium, don't wind down into the same repetitive and un-winnable debates.
The joys of an 1-11 season with a fan base already broken before that does not help but I'm really hoping not every conversation, both on FB and Premium, don't wind down into the same repetitive and un-winnable debates.
You said:
I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.
"Hard to accept people talking about defensive improvement..." implies it annoys you the thread has fans discussing getting better as season moves along.
I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.
"Hard to accept people talking about defensive improvement..." implies it annoys you the thread has fans discussing getting better as season moves along.
TheDom said:Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
We were the best 1-11 team in the nation!!
No it doesn't. It means that it's hard to believe in a lot of defensive improvement for the team when the statistics and watching the games showed something different. We were ranked 111 in total defense in 2017 and were the worst defense in Baylor history. That's a fact. We gave up an average of 457 yards a game. Our last game against TCU we gave up 437. And TCU only had about 50 yards in the 4th quarter once the game was out of reach, meaning they had almost 400 yards of offense through 3 quarters. These are all facts. Based on these facts, the conclusion I continue to draw is that talk about defensive improvement is entirely premature and hard to accept. I'm not annoyed by the conversation. In fact, I welcome it because it seems there are a lot of you out there with misconceptions and in need of some serious education on the subject.TheDom said:
You said:
I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.
"Hard to accept people talking about defensive improvement..." implies it annoys you the thread has fans discussing getting better as season moves along.
DAC said:TheDom said:Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
We were the best 1-11 team in the nation!!
Dilly dilly.
Dom, keep it yourself, you like to rag on cowboy, man you are every bit as bad as cowboy probably worse. Just a know it all.
I watched every quarter of every game. Yes you are right, at the beginning of the year the Bears played like a middling FCS team.
At the end of the year the Bears were 64th out of 65 P5 teams.
Thank goodness for KU, but yes the Bears got better.
That said next year 6 wins seem very possible.
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ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
1- having a different opinion is fine but at least fact check and tell the truth. Worst defense in the history of Baylor football? 2011 & 2012 (the only years Bennett had this young of a back 7) were worse in both total D and scoring D. Simply untrue. They weren't good but why rely on something false?
2- Total Yards is borderline junk now due to different amounts of possessions per team. Yards per drive is a clearer picture. In terms of yards per drive vs power conference foes (because that's the most extensive set of per-drive stats I have) last year's defense trails only 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2005 in Yards per drive allowed out of the 13 seasons I have data for. When you compare them as a percentage of what other P5's get they only trail those teams and 2016 with 2005 and 2016 only being less than .6% of a difference.
3- 2016 allowed 38.7 YPD to power conference foes, 2017 allowed 35.8. Both allowed 2.19 yards more than other P5 teams averaged vs their opponents. This is after losing Blanchard, Levels, Stewart, Reid, and Edwards while losing X Jones and KJ Smith early in the year and constantly shuffling out injured guys. If this defense was all-time horrible- so was the prior year which I highly doubt you'd argue.
3- The defense did get better as the year wore on. I expect a better year with more experience and a better understanding of a more versatile scheme.
They had a terrible game against OkSt but over the last four games held three of them below the YPD they got against other P5 squads and the one outlier (ISU) was doing the same prior to Young getting hurt. That group includes Tech and two of the Big 12's top teams. That isn't crazy but it's a long way from September.
4- I provided specific examples of a coverage issue vs LU that got corrected with improvement. There were other improvements as the year went on. Does that mean they'll be better than average soon? We won't know till they strap helmets on but they clearly improved as the season went on, especially considering how terrible they were to start.
Boom! I knew S11 was lurking with the knowledge! No sir, ColomboLQ, you need to educate yourself on the facts. Take several seats please!
Go easy, S11. He's using Alternative Facts. It's a thing now.
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ColomboLQ said:
We were ranked 111 in total defense in 2017 and were the worst defense in Baylor history. That's a fact.
Worst defense in Baylor history? That's a lie. Better total D and scoring D than 2011 & 2012 as well as some earlier ones.
Besides, total yards is kind of a junk stat nowadays. Variable numbers of possessions make it so. When 2014 Baylor and TCU has more possessions vs each other than that year's LSU Arkansas game had combined it becomes effectively meaningless.
One spot separated #57 Washington and #58 Baylor's offenses in total yards. Washington was in the low 20s in yards per drive and Baylor was in the 90s. Yards per drive told the real story.
Quote:
Based on these facts, the conclusion I continue to draw is that talk about defensive improvement is entirely premature and hard to accept. I'm not annoyed by the conversation. In fact, I welcome it because it seems there are a lot of you out there with misconceptions and in need of some serious education on the subject.
Perhaps you need it since you are spouting off falsehoods that a 2 minute trip to Bu's stats page could correct.
That's two posts in a row you've outted your own activities and tried to project them on to others.DAC said:MilliVanilli said:You think far too highly of yourself.DAC said:Sprite said:
Very fair article.
For all intents and purposes, this is Coach Rhule's first season on the job. It would be reckless and impatient to question the lack of results before another three years, at the earliest.
My boy's pee wee coach would have beat Liberty and he's usually drunk by halftime . Catch him on a sober day and he beats UTSA with that squad
Go back to stalking college girls on Facebook
S11 said:ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
1- having a different opinion is fine but at least fact check and tell the truth. Worst defense in the history of Baylor football? 2011 & 2012 (the only years Bennett had this young of a back 7) were worse in both total D and scoring D. Simply untrue. They weren't good but why rely on something false?
Finally an intelligent mind to engage with! Total D and scoring D don't take into account pace of play so often it's not a good indicator when one teams is running 100 plays on defense compared to another only running 75. I like using opponents points per play because the number of plays at that point isn't as big factor (although still a factor). Baylor in 2017 was #110 in the country in opp pts per play giving up .501 per play. For comparison sakes, Baylor's often maligned 2012 defense (that gave up 70 points to West Virginia) gave up .455 per play.
2- Total Yards is borderline junk now due to different amounts of possessions per team. Yards per drive is a clearer picture. In terms of yards per drive vs power conference foes (because that's the most extensive set of per-drive stats I have) last year's defense trails only 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2005 in Yards per drive allowed out of the 13 seasons I have data for. When you compare them as a percentage of what other P5's get they only trail those teams and 2016 with 2005 and 2016 only being less than .6% of a difference.
I agree with you on the total yards thing because it doesn't take into account pace of play. I prefer opponent yards per play than yards per drive because (in my opinion) it takes into account pace of play much better overall. The 2017 Baylor defense gave up 6.4 yards per play (#114 in the country). Again for comparisons sake, the 2012 Baylor defense gave up 6.0 yards per play. And they were dead last in total defense that season(again a junk stat, but used her to make a point). The only Baylor defense that compares is the 2011 one that gave up the same 6.4 per drive. Even Guy Morris defenses were better at this. On a side note, we were a much worse defense at home than on the road.
3- 2016 allowed 38.7 YPD to power conference foes, 2017 allowed 35.8. Both allowed 2.19 yards more than other P5 teams averaged vs their opponents. This is after losing Blanchard, Levels, Stewart, Reid, and Edwards while losing X Jones and KJ Smith early in the year and constantly shuffling out injured guys. If this defense was all-time horrible- so was the prior year which I highly doubt you'd argue.
Again I'm not sure how much I buy the YPD argument. If you compare the Def S&P rankings used by football outsiders, the 2017 defense was significantly worse than 2016 (28.3 and #58 overall vs 33.2 and #111 overall). Again for comparison, the 2012 defense had a 31.5 rating and #86 overall.
3- The defense did get better as the year wore on. I expect a better year with more experience and a better understanding of a more versatile scheme.
Agreed here. I just can't see how they could get worse. I actually have more hope for the defense improving than I do for the offense (although that isn't saying much).
They had a terrible game against OkSt but over the last four games held three of them below the YPD they got against other P5 squads and the one outlier (ISU) was doing the same prior to Young getting hurt. That group includes Tech and two of the Big 12's top teams. That isn't crazy but it's a long way from September.
4- I provided specific examples of a coverage issue vs LU that got corrected with improvement. There were other improvements as the year went on. Does that mean they'll be better than average soon? We won't know till they strap helmets on but they clearly improved as the season went on, especially considering how terrible they were to start.
I've never argued that they didn't improve as the year went on. They were so unbelievably horrible at the beginning of the year that there was no way that they could not improve. But they are gonna have to get to average before we can start talking about becoming better than average.
Settle down junior and take a seat. The adults are talking.TheDom said:
Boom! I knew S11 was lurking with the knowledge! No sir, ColomboLQ, you need to educate yourself on the facts. Take several seats please!
You are welcome to you opinion on me. However, I challenge you in this fact. I am reasonable and respectful in my posts. I do get argumentive when I get an issue with a poster like cowboycwr and several of these other fans for the folllowing things. 1. Everyone can disagree and not like whatever all the time but the Baylor loathing gets old. I guess these guys think they funny with their hot takes but for supposed Baylor fans they don't have much perspective or heart. 2. I didn't realize how uninformed so many of the posters are. They don't know much and can't think for themselves. If they don't read it on Google they can't formulate much of their own ideas. Little insightful reasoning. 3. The ones that become insulting bc they call entire threads silly or call other posters names. Or worst, they insinuate that Colt & Brian & the staff are lying or have some agenda.Forest Bueller said:DAC said:TheDom said:Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
We were the best 1-11 team in the nation!!
Dilly dilly.
Dom, keep it yourself, you like to rag on cowboy, man you are every bit as bad as cowboy probably worse. Just a know it all.
I watched every quarter of every game. Yes you are right, at the beginning of the year the Bears played like a middling FCS team.
At the end of the year the Bears were 64th out of 65 P5 teams.
Thank goodness for KU, but yes the Bears got better.
That said next year 6 wins seem very possible.
I trust you can understand the reasoning.
I figured you were done for the night bro after getting checked that hard. Guess you are a stubborn one.ColomboLQ said:Settle down junior and take a seat. The adults are talking.TheDom said:
Boom! I knew S11 was lurking with the knowledge! No sir, ColomboLQ, you need to educate yourself on the facts. Take several seats please!
I mean, wow, look at this unbelievable insight. I guess DAC is the cool funny guy!DAC said:TheDom said:Then you didn't watch the games. We were noticeably better as season went along. Generic fact you googled of 111th total defense doesn't tell the whole story or put the season in perspective.ColomboLQ said:I did watch the games dip***** We were ****ing horrible to start the year and awful to end the year. Thanks for playing.DioNoZeus said:Thats why you should try actually watching the games, troll.ColomboLQ said:I don't mean to be combative, but it's hard to accept people talking about the defensive improvement shown by the team when they were ranked 111 in total defense FOR THE SEASON and were the worst defense in the history of Baylor football. That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in anyone.S11 said:CorsicanaBear said:
Unless it happened its rank speculation, alternate history, a Harry Turtledove novel.
Winston Churchill thought the CSA could have won the War Between the States.
http://www.historynet.com/churchill-imagines-how-the-south-won-the-civil-war.htm
Considering half the points LU scored came on drives where backup DB's botched basic assignments in Tampa 2 that they executed well just a couple weeks later I would highly doubt that game is even close if a semi healthy squad faces off in a rematch.
Sorry fans talking about the noticeable improvement the team made under a 1st year coach who took over a dumpster fire is annoying to you.
We were the best 1-11 team in the nation!!
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