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Damn Playbook

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bunation
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9:03a, 8/4/18
From an earlier John Werner piece this year:

"..,Baylor coach Matt Rhule saw a team that was more accustomed to the demands of his coaching staff and showed a better understanding of the offensive and defensive schemes.

That War and Peace-sized playbook is still a monster, but the Baylor players have a better grasp of it."

I'm still baffled at professional coaches placing such an onerous playbook on young, part time student athletes, expecting them to pick it up in just a few weeks/months of practices. Stupidity? Maybe. Thoughtlessness? Absolutely. Consequences? Obviously!

Hopefully, our staff will wise up and simplify things for transfers and freshman whom coaches are relying on to play significant minutes this fall.

I truly believe this failing last year was a KEY REASON for our non-conference losses and some noticeable breakdowns on critical plays all season long.

Are we really expecting these young students to learn these complicated schemes, excel academically, and learn opponents' new schemes each week all while spending time in the weight room and catching enough rest?!
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xiledinok
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9:15a, 8/4/18
Go draft a quarterback who didn't have a playbook and see who is stupid.

Did we have a bunch of Dexter Manley football players at Baylor or over the past 10 years? I might understand the frustration.

It appears the players at Clemson, Alabama, Oklahoma, Georgia and even, yes, even Auburn can read and handle the responsiblity of a playbook. Last time I checked those teams were winning.

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BUbearinARK
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In reply to bunation • 9:24a, 8/4/18
bunation said:

Are we really expecting these young students to learn these complicated schemes, excel academically, and learn opponents' new schemes each week all while spending time in the weight room and catching enough rest?!
Um, yes.
I’m an optimist!

And /S in case I missed it

TE
Matthew Klopfenstein 1 catch/5 yds
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xiledinok
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In reply to BUbearinARK • 9:29a, 8/4/18
BUbearinARK said:
bunation said:

Are we really expecting these young students to learn these complicated schemes, excel academically, and learn opponents' new schemes each week all while spending time in the weight room and catching enough rest?!
Um, yes.


He wants the players dumb, stupid and clueless post football experience at Baylor. One of those guys who brags about hiring them for under $15 after they are done playing. These guys are at every school.
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Bear8084
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9:30a, 8/4/18
For once I agree with X. Are we really complaining about having a playbook? Student athletes in football have had these forever and very successful teams in the NCAA have them. Here is an example of one from a supposed spread coach when he was in Tulsa as an OC, pretty extensive stuff and I believe those student athletes did just fine going 10-3, and 11-4 with it. And that is just one of many examples. Dont sell our student athletes short just because they have to learn a playbook.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/204495659/Gus-Malzahn-Tulsa-Install#
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BellCountyBear
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10:26a, 8/4/18
Cory Coleman was quoted last week saying part of the reason he hasn't caught on in the nfl consistently was due to not knowing how to study a playbook.
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Max Quad
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10:32a, 8/4/18
Henry Blake: Very nice. Very nice! Uh, what are these little arrows?
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hodedofome
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10:43a, 8/4/18
Too many coaches in the NFL buy into the more complicated than it needs to be approach. Tony Dungee showed you can win with simple. Briles did too. There aren't enough coaches like them.
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Timbear
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10:49a, 8/4/18
There's got to be a happy medium between no playbook and an NFL style , highly complicated one. These guys are not full time football, you know.
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jbbear
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In reply to Timbear • 10:57a, 8/4/18
Timbear said:
There's got to be a happy medium between no playbook and an NFL style , highly complicated one. These guys are not full time football, you know.
So do they get a part time scholarship?
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Ashley Hodge
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10:58a, 8/4/18
Staff
Simple usually wins when you have a talent edge or have some schematic edge (fastest pace; superior conditioning for running plays). It gets tougher when talent equalizes.

In theory, I definitely crave simplicity and I think Art Briles was a genius for keeping things simple and using his advantages well.

I have been told by a scout that when our offensive linemen fully grasp the schemes and execute at a high level that this is the type of system that will be able to run against any defense in any weather (assuming we have strong, smart experienced upper classmen on the line). And that same scout thought we would see a defense that would be the aggressor as well and really adept at confusing good offenses. Time will tell. More than one way to skin a cat.

I just hope Rhule sticks to his guns. Whatever he believes, sell out to it and recruit to it.

Even with simple last year, we were going to struggle with a makeshift offensive line that was playing a few guys 20 lbs lighter than any other Big12 OL and inexperience at QB.
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OldSchoolBU
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11:08a, 8/4/18
exactly right, you better have some execution advantages and the art of surprise when you are playing games against top 20 teams in November. No knock on Art or his system but we see who is winning national titles every year and the types of systems they run.
The past is last! Be a champion today!
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Loaded4Bear
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In reply to bunation • 11:29a, 8/4/18
I just hope we don't have any players failing their pop quizzes this season.
"It it ain't broke, get a bigger hammer!"
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to Bear8084 • 12:10p, 8/4/18
Bear8084 said:
For once I agree with X. Are we really complaining about having a playbook? Student athletes in football have had these forever and very successful teams in the NCAA have them. Here is an example of one from a supposed spread coach when he was in Tulsa as an OC, pretty extensive stuff and I believe those student athletes did just fine going 10-3, and 11-4 with it. And that is just one of many examples. Dont sell our student athletes short just because they have to learn a playbook.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/204495659/Gus-Malzahn-Tulsa-Install#
Not to mention if many of these kids are truly aspiring for the NFL, then they need to be students of the game.

I know for a fact players such as Demetri Goodson were reprimanded in Green Bay for their laziness on the film study side of game preparation, and he wasn't even on offense.

Briles did not instill discipline in his teams, they mostly just out athleted opponents, and it worked a lot at the college level....but almost never does at the pro level.
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RegentCoverup
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12:15p, 8/4/18
Lot of truth to that. GM's didn't want to draft a guy that walked in on day one and hadn't seen a playbook in 4 years.

You'd hear groans from the teams and the excuses didn't fly..
This site leaks private information to Baylor Regents and Administration
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Dia del DougO
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12:18p, 8/4/18
How do you have a massively thick playbook when you just invented a revolutionary hybrid offensive scheme from scratch only conceived in the past year?
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
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BUbearinARK
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In reply to Dia del DougO • 12:22p, 8/4/18
Dia del DougO said:
How do you have a massively thick playbook when you just invented a revolutionary hybrid offensive scheme from scratch only conceived in the past year?
Science, I think. Maybe some smart people too.
I’m an optimist!

And /S in case I missed it

TE
Matthew Klopfenstein 1 catch/5 yds
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Timbear
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12:52p, 8/4/18
JBBear, you comment is stupid. Their scholarship is academic. They are amateurs. They have school, community and social obligations. Their job is not football as it is in the Pros. If they flunk out of school, no football.
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contrario
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In reply to Timbear • 3:13p, 8/4/18
Timbear said:
JBBear, you comment is stupid. Their scholarship is academic. They are amateurs. They have school, community and social obligations. Their job is not football as it is in the Pros. If they flunk out of school, no football.
No additional burden is being put on them than is being put on football players at 95% of other Division I schools. Why do you think our players are inferior to most of the other schools?
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boognish_bear
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1:28p, 8/5/18
CMR feels they are grasping it by what he's seen in the start of practice

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REX
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3:26p, 8/5/18
I just liked winning college championships
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Thee University
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4:25p, 8/5/18
I liked letting TCU tie us for one too!

What I did not like is letting inferior OSU and West Virginia give us a good old pigskin enema when we were ranked supposedly #3 and #4 in the nation at the time of being bent over.

.637
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Timbear
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5:23p, 8/5/18
It's amazing how Thee can come up with ways to debegrate the most successful period in Baylor Football History. Sheesh!
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Timbear
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5:23p, 8/5/18
Denegrate. Sorry
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241Bear
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In reply to Thee University • 9:38p, 8/5/18
Thee University said:


What I did not like is letting inferior OSU and West Virginia give us a good old pigskin enema when we were ranked supposedly #3 and #4 in the nation at the time of being bent over.

No one liked it. Because no higher ranked team has ever been upset by a lower ranked team in the history of college football. Ever. Except these two times.
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Robert Wilson
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9:04a, 8/6/18
There are lots of ways to win. Let's just pick one.

I agree w/ Ashley that Rhule should stick to his guns. Go with your gut. Dance with the one who brung ya, so to speak.

I think there was a huge advantage to the Briles system that let kids go fast and not over-think, but a system like Rhule's can also work very well if you can implement it correctly.

Early last year, we looked like the Texas D with Manny Diaz at the helm. Everyone standing around too long trying to figure out what to do = Buckshot Calvert torches you. But if you can get everyone's heads wrapped around it well enough that they can seamlessly execute you've got a chance to be very good.
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la1037
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2:07p, 8/6/18
Big Playbook. Small Playbook. No Playbook. I don't care. Just make sure the system is built for a school that is disadvantaged with the big uglies in the trenches verses its competition. That is all I care about and Rhule has no clue on that. I am not even sure he comprehends that he is forever disadvantaged on the lines and if he is, he has no idea on how to deal with it.

I don't care about next level prep either. I only care about winning the Big 12.
"We are unaware of any situation where you personally had contact with anyone who directly reported to you being the victim of sexual assault or that you directly discouraged the victim of an alleged sexual assault from reporting to law enforcement or university officials. Nor are we aware of any situation where you played a student athlete who had been found responsible for sexual assault.”
- Chris Holmes, Baylor General Counsel
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la1037
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In reply to Timbear • 2:10p, 8/6/18
Timbear said:
It's amazing how Thee can come up with ways to debegrate the most successful period in Baylor Football History. Sheesh!
And in the same breath extol the greatness of 1-11. Agenda before brains.
"We are unaware of any situation where you personally had contact with anyone who directly reported to you being the victim of sexual assault or that you directly discouraged the victim of an alleged sexual assault from reporting to law enforcement or university officials. Nor are we aware of any situation where you played a student athlete who had been found responsible for sexual assault.”
- Chris Holmes, Baylor General Counsel
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OldSchoolBU
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In reply to la1037 • 2:13p, 8/6/18
la1037 said:
Big Playbook. Small Playbook. No Playbook. I don't care. Just make sure the system is built for a school that is disadvantaged with the big uglies in the trenches verses its competition. That is all I care about and Rhule has no clue on that. I am not even sure he comprehends that he is forever disadvantaged on the lines and if he is, he has no idea on how to deal with it.

I don't care about next level prep either. I only care about winning the Big 12.
you know who kicks ass in the trenches? Stanford. The same arguments you make for Baylor being disadvantaged on the lines you can say about Stanford. And Kansas State. Just get the right guys and develop them. It is loser talk to concede that Baylor cannot have dominant offensive and defensive line.

The past is last! Be a champion today!
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Robert Wilson
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In reply to OldSchoolBU • 2:19p, 8/6/18
OldSchoolBU said:
la1037 said:
Big Playbook. Small Playbook. No Playbook. I don't care. Just make sure the system is built for a school that is disadvantaged with the big uglies in the trenches verses its competition. That is all I care about and Rhule has no clue on that. I am not even sure he comprehends that he is forever disadvantaged on the lines and if he is, he has no idea on how to deal with it.

I don't care about next level prep either. I only care about winning the Big 12.
you know who kicks ass in the trenches? Stanford. The same arguments you make for Baylor being disadvantaged on the lines you can say about Stanford. And Kansas State. Just get the right guys and develop them. It is loser talk to concede that Baylor cannot have dominant offensive and defensive line.

We absolutely can. Under Briles, we had dominant offensive lines and some very productive DL. We had some elite D Lines under Teaff / Fredenburg.
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Bear8084
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In reply to OldSchoolBU • 2:53p, 8/6/18
OldSchoolBU said:
la1037 said:
Big Playbook. Small Playbook. No Playbook. I don't care. Just make sure the system is built for a school that is disadvantaged with the big uglies in the trenches verses its competition. That is all I care about and Rhule has no clue on that. I am not even sure he comprehends that he is forever disadvantaged on the lines and if he is, he has no idea on how to deal with it.

I don't care about next level prep either. I only care about winning the Big 12.
you know who kicks ass in the trenches? Stanford. The same arguments you make for Baylor being disadvantaged on the lines you can say about Stanford. And Kansas State. Just get the right guys and develop them. It is loser talk to concede that Baylor cannot have dominant offensive and defensive line.



Bingo. Can't rep this enough.
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MilliVanilli
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In reply to la1037 • 3:10p, 8/6/18
la1037 said:
Timbear said:
It's amazing how Thee can come up with ways to debegrate the most successful period in Baylor Football History. Sheesh!
And in the same breath extol the greatness of 1-11. Agenda before brains.
Just make sure you're not on this board when baylor starts bowling again, that's all we ask.
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OsoCoreyell
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3:53p, 8/6/18
Geeze. I had a 50 page playbook in high-school. It was no big deal. Remember, almost no one besides the coaches and the QB have to know the whole offensive playbook. Virtually all other players just have to know their small part. It really isn't that big a deal.
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RegentCoverup
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In reply to REX • 3:56p, 8/6/18
REX said:
I just liked winning college championships
You liked the perks of hanging around the Simpson center and your kid having his own office.

Clearly, Cougar High School is a demotion and you just can't let go.
This site leaks private information to Baylor Regents and Administration
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la1037
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In reply to Robert Wilson • 5:42p, 8/6/18
Robert Wilson said:
OldSchoolBU said:
la1037 said:
Big Playbook. Small Playbook. No Playbook. I don't care. Just make sure the system is built for a school that is disadvantaged with the big uglies in the trenches verses its competition. That is all I care about and Rhule has no clue on that. I am not even sure he comprehends that he is forever disadvantaged on the lines and if he is, he has no idea on how to deal with it.

I don't care about next level prep either. I only care about winning the Big 12.
you know who kicks ass in the trenches? Stanford. The same arguments you make for Baylor being disadvantaged on the lines you can say about Stanford. And Kansas State. Just get the right guys and develop them. It is loser talk to concede that Baylor cannot have dominant offensive and defensive line.

We absolutely can. Under Briles, we had dominant offensive lines and some very productive DL. We had some elite D Lines under Teaff / Fredenburg.
Maybe, but 90% of seasons since 1983 when I entered Baylor until today 2018 (I made that 90% number up but I think you will be able to extrapolate the point and hopefully not obsess on the exact number) we had lesser lines than UT and OU. I am not saying we never had a good line. We did. Certainly under Briles. We just didn't have the type of line to bash heads to a win against the big boys like Rhule would prefer.

Winners recognize their weakness and find a way to overcome it. Losers ignore them.

Only Briles found a way to neutralize that advantage. Rhule will not unless he has a huge change of heart on the offense. I hope he can get us to a bowl in the next 3 years. Very likely he will be gone in 4 either taking a new job or be fired. But I have no illusions of winning the Big 12 with his current system.

Prove me wrong coach. I welcome it.

"We are unaware of any situation where you personally had contact with anyone who directly reported to you being the victim of sexual assault or that you directly discouraged the victim of an alleged sexual assault from reporting to law enforcement or university officials. Nor are we aware of any situation where you played a student athlete who had been found responsible for sexual assault.”
- Chris Holmes, Baylor General Counsel
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