REX said:

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xiledinok said:

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There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

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Chuckroast said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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PartyBear said:

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It's like some of you are stuck with old talking points from 1954. What exactly is it about Baylor that is small? It's campus is now about twice the size of Univ of Texas' and its student population is almost half the size of Univ of Texas' undergraduate enrollment.

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Campus size is absolutely irrelevant. Our enrollment numbers are only recently up and we still have a small alumni base compared to peer institutions (and we're still losing ground - thanks UT/TAMU). Baylor still has little to no cachet outside of Texas. Baylor's market tv market size is small.

And, BTW Dom, I'm pretty sure the DFW area has more BU alumni than Houston.

---

Oh now campus size is irrelevant? Everything is irrelevant to you that doesn't support the "just the way it is" talking point. PartyBear is right, ya'll stuck in the past.

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I don't think campus acreage plays a role in the next round of realignment, if there is one. Do you?

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We aren't talking about raw land acreage. PartyBear was referring to size of campus in terms of buildings, programs, enrollment, and academics. Things that assist with school appeal. Stuff that goes into the total picture. Yes, stuff that helps when it time to discuss notoriety of a school and thus attractiveness in realignment.

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Nope.

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Hummm... yes. Curious, you think the $1.1B will help in realignment?

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Are you referring to Baylor's endowment? If so,





Nope.

Really, I'm not trying to be abrasive. I just consider my point of view entirely correct. I'm firm there and we're all allowed our opinions. So, I don't want to come off like a jerk.

---

No, the $1.1B we raising to build new fieldhouse, football only offices and weight room and study hall, repurpose Ferrell Center, etc.

I'm not trying to be a$$ either, really I'm just amazed. I also consider my point of view correct. I'm just amazed how lost you seem to be on whole deal. Honestly it's like you thinking in 1965 terms.

---

Those things are minimal in the long run. Baylor is a regional school with little national appeal. TCU is the same. Whatever we gained during the Briles years in terms of recognition is gone now due to the "scandal." Would a conference, say the ACC, consider improvements and financial commitment to athletics as a positive criterion? Sure. It wouldn't be close to integral, however.

Baylor is Memphis with better luck.

---

I'm sorry, that is just such silly sentiment. Crazy to me you think so poorly of your so called school, especially when facts don't support it. Memphis with better luck?!? Wow. Pretty sure Memphis doesn't have a $100M+ athletic budget. Such an ignorant statement.

For the record, most people outside of Texas I talk with about Baylor know very little about the scandal. As long as we get back to winning quickly, which we have taken first step in doing so by reaching bowl this year it will all be distant memory to outside world soon.

Also, Briles was just another good coach. He took a dormant program and got 2 conference titles. The run helped wake up the fan base and we got a new stadium and some national notoriety out of it. He got paid a lot of money and his son and son in law jobs within the college football industry. Then he got canned for bringing bad light upon the university. Positives and negatives. And now we move forward. Briles was a good starter kit. Now we move on to next step.

---

I don't consider that thinking poorly of Baylor. It's just factual. Memphis last year had a 50+ million dollar budget and they are in the AAC. Plus they have the FedEx billionaire willing to shell out all sorts of cash. They're a regional school like Baylor. Baylor has had the fortune of being in a major conference for a long time. If Memphis joined the Big 12 their budget would certainly rise.

I'm not sure what you think the "next step" is for Baylor. I'm not sure people at Baylor know.

---

You talk out of both sides of your mouth. The FedEx billionaire is good for Memphis but it negative that a individual booster is picking up tab at Baylor for the football coach.

It's all good man. Memphis is a mid major. Baylor is in a P5 conference. That fact isn't just by some mistake or luck. Sorry you think so poorly of Baylor. You should have gone to UT.

---

I'm sorry. You misunderstood. I'm saying that they have someone who can afford to give the program a lot of money, but that still doesn't help them develop a case for being added to a major conference. Memphis is a mid-major because they don't offer anything in terms of audience for tv sets.

You seem upset that I'm being honest. It's a known that Baylor faces the realignment chopping block like plenty of other schools. This upsets you, I guess. Even our most powerful boosters/regents have said as much. So you can be upset or bitter or whatever. It doesn't change the facts.

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I'm curious to see how many fans we bring to the Texas bowl. That will be a good indicator if we even have a regional following at this point. When I went to Madison Square Garden to watch us in the sweet 16 a couple of years ago, we had almost no fans in the arena. It was really disappointing. The arena was packed . . . with other schools' fans.

In football, we were developing a statewide and national brand just 3 years ago and basically derailed it ourselves. It takes time, and contrary to all the revisionist history naysayers, we were headed in the right direction for the first time in my decades of following Baylor. I just hope we can regain the momentum. Living outside of Texas, it seems self evident to me that we are not on the national radar anymore.

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

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xiledinok said:

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REX said:

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xiledinok said:

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There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands than you. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pumping women?

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DioNoZeus said:

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Looks like the knee pad clan will have to start looking elsewhere...

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25476184/former-ole-miss-coach-hugh-freeze-agrees-deal-liberty-head-coach

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xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands than you. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pumping women?

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pimping women?

---

English???

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Stranger said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

---

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

---

Stranger said:

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Chuckroast said:

---

TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

---

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

---

witchmo said:

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xiledinok said:

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REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pimping women?

---

Seriously?
Why such a response?

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xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pimping women?

---

English???

---

My little fingers just type too fast. The southern women don't want ya around.

---

TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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xiledinok said:

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WVA is not a national brand. You don't see people anywhere other than West Virginia wearing their gear.
You would get a weird look at an outside the bubble tailgate claiming West Virginia is a national brand.

---

No kidding. What a goofy argument. By that standard, outside of 10 schools - UT, OU, tOSU, Michigan, PSU, USC, Florida St, Miami, Alabama, LSU - everyone else is a "regional school". It goes on long enough and they not even sure what to think anymore.

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What was the argument? What was the standard? And yes, WVU is a national football brand.

---

No, WV is not a national football brand any more than Baylor is... I'm not upset about talk of realignment at all, outside of you ignorance to the entire discussion. I didn't misunderstand your take at all, I just don't think you know much about what you speak of. You mentioned FedEX and compared Memphis to Baylor and that is nuts in so many ways, particularly when you backtracked and used big booster as positive for Memphis but a negative for Baylor. I am very well aware of the situation.

Through all this you have basically said if an institution is not a 40k student enrollment state school you have no shot at realignment. I guess that is your standard? It seems to be a moving target outside of Baylor sucks and has not shot for anything unless we cut corners. You make all these statements even though none of us even know what realignment will look like if it comes. If the college playoff goes to 8 which is most likely there probably not any realignment. Your logic is pretty faulty and severely bias and includes huge gaps that you either don't know and are assuming or you taken some info twisted it to fit your narrative and filling in with 1964 talking points.

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REX said:

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xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

REX said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

There's some serious stupidity believing West Virginia is a national brand. Head over to the college apparel store in your area and ask the guy or girl for their West Virginia gear.
You will get a response.
"Sir, we don't carry West Virginia gear. Let me get my manager and see if we can order it."

---

National may include states that are north and east of Oklahoma my little buddy

---

Ha! I have a better grip than you on national brands. Don't forget USC.
West Virginia and UCF are national brands for the robe clan.
Rex, do the white southern women you know like men pimping women?

---

English???

---

My little fingers just type too fast. The southern women don't want ya around.

---

What do you consider South?

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Chuckroast said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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PartyBear said:

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It's like some of you are stuck with old talking points from 1954. What exactly is it about Baylor that is small? It's campus is now about twice the size of Univ of Texas' and its student population is almost half the size of Univ of Texas' undergraduate enrollment.

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Campus size is absolutely irrelevant. Our enrollment numbers are only recently up and we still have a small alumni base compared to peer institutions (and we're still losing ground - thanks UT/TAMU). Baylor still has little to no cachet outside of Texas. Baylor's market tv market size is small.

And, BTW Dom, I'm pretty sure the DFW area has more BU alumni than Houston.

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Oh now campus size is irrelevant? Everything is irrelevant to you that doesn't support the "just the way it is" talking point. PartyBear is right, ya'll stuck in the past.

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I don't think campus acreage plays a role in the next round of realignment, if there is one. Do you?

---

We aren't talking about raw land acreage. PartyBear was referring to size of campus in terms of buildings, programs, enrollment, and academics. Things that assist with school appeal. Stuff that goes into the total picture. Yes, stuff that helps when it time to discuss notoriety of a school and thus attractiveness in realignment.

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Nope.

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Hummm... yes. Curious, you think the $1.1B will help in realignment?

---

Are you referring to Baylor's endowment? If so,





Nope.

Really, I'm not trying to be abrasive. I just consider my point of view entirely correct. I'm firm there and we're all allowed our opinions. So, I don't want to come off like a jerk.

---

No, the $1.1B we raising to build new fieldhouse, football only offices and weight room and study hall, repurpose Ferrell Center, etc.

I'm not trying to be a$$ either, really I'm just amazed. I also consider my point of view correct. I'm just amazed how lost you seem to be on whole deal. Honestly it's like you thinking in 1965 terms.

---

Those things are minimal in the long run. Baylor is a regional school with little national appeal. TCU is the same. Whatever we gained during the Briles years in terms of recognition is gone now due to the "scandal." Would a conference, say the ACC, consider improvements and financial commitment to athletics as a positive criterion? Sure. It wouldn't be close to integral, however.

Baylor is Memphis with better luck.

---

I'm sorry, that is just such silly sentiment. Crazy to me you think so poorly of your so called school, especially when facts don't support it. Memphis with better luck?!? Wow. Pretty sure Memphis doesn't have a $100M+ athletic budget. Such an ignorant statement.

For the record, most people outside of Texas I talk with about Baylor know very little about the scandal. As long as we get back to winning quickly, which we have taken first step in doing so by reaching bowl this year it will all be distant memory to outside world soon.

Also, Briles was just another good coach. He took a dormant program and got 2 conference titles. The run helped wake up the fan base and we got a new stadium and some national notoriety out of it. He got paid a lot of money and his son and son in law jobs within the college football industry. Then he got canned for bringing bad light upon the university. Positives and negatives. And now we move forward. Briles was a good starter kit. Now we move on to next step.

---

I don't consider that thinking poorly of Baylor. It's just factual. Memphis last year had a 50+ million dollar budget and they are in the AAC. Plus they have the FedEx billionaire willing to shell out all sorts of cash. They're a regional school like Baylor. Baylor has had the fortune of being in a major conference for a long time. If Memphis joined the Big 12 their budget would certainly rise.

I'm not sure what you think the "next step" is for Baylor. I'm not sure people at Baylor know.

---

You talk out of both sides of your mouth. The FedEx billionaire is good for Memphis but it negative that a individual booster is picking up tab at Baylor for the football coach.

It's all good man. Memphis is a mid major. Baylor is in a P5 conference. That fact isn't just by some mistake or luck. Sorry you think so poorly of Baylor. You should have gone to UT.

---

I'm sorry. You misunderstood. I'm saying that they have someone who can afford to give the program a lot of money, but that still doesn't help them develop a case for being added to a major conference. Memphis is a mid-major because they don't offer anything in terms of audience for tv sets.

You seem upset that I'm being honest. It's a known that Baylor faces the realignment chopping block like plenty of other schools. This upsets you, I guess. Even our most powerful boosters/regents have said as much. So you can be upset or bitter or whatever. It doesn't change the facts.

---

I'm curious to see how many fans we bring to the Texas bowl. That will be a good indicator if we even have a regional following at this point. When I went to Madison Square Garden to watch us in the sweet 16 a couple of years ago, we had almost no fans in the arena. It was really disappointing. The arena was packed . . . with other schools' fans.

In football, we were developing a statewide and national brand just 3 years ago and basically derailed it ourselves. It takes time, and contrary to all the revisionist history naysayers, we were headed in the right direction for the first time in my decades of following Baylor. I just hope we can regain the momentum. Living outside of Texas, it seems self evident to me that we are not on the national radar anymore.

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Chuckroast said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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PartyBear said:

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It's like some of you are stuck with old talking points from 1954. What exactly is it about Baylor that is small? It's campus is now about twice the size of Univ of Texas' and its student population is almost half the size of Univ of Texas' undergraduate enrollment.

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Campus size is absolutely irrelevant. Our enrollment numbers are only recently up and we still have a small alumni base compared to peer institutions (and we're still losing ground - thanks UT/TAMU). Baylor still has little to no cachet outside of Texas. Baylor's market tv market size is small.

And, BTW Dom, I'm pretty sure the DFW area has more BU alumni than Houston.

---

Oh now campus size is irrelevant? Everything is irrelevant to you that doesn't support the "just the way it is" talking point. PartyBear is right, ya'll stuck in the past.

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I don't think campus acreage plays a role in the next round of realignment, if there is one. Do you?

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We aren't talking about raw land acreage. PartyBear was referring to size of campus in terms of buildings, programs, enrollment, and academics. Things that assist with school appeal. Stuff that goes into the total picture. Yes, stuff that helps when it time to discuss notoriety of a school and thus attractiveness in realignment.

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Nope.

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Hummm... yes. Curious, you think the $1.1B will help in realignment?

---

Are you referring to Baylor's endowment? If so,





Nope.

Really, I'm not trying to be abrasive. I just consider my point of view entirely correct. I'm firm there and we're all allowed our opinions. So, I don't want to come off like a jerk.

---

No, the $1.1B we raising to build new fieldhouse, football only offices and weight room and study hall, repurpose Ferrell Center, etc.

I'm not trying to be a$$ either, really I'm just amazed. I also consider my point of view correct. I'm just amazed how lost you seem to be on whole deal. Honestly it's like you thinking in 1965 terms.

---

Those things are minimal in the long run. Baylor is a regional school with little national appeal. TCU is the same. Whatever we gained during the Briles years in terms of recognition is gone now due to the "scandal." Would a conference, say the ACC, consider improvements and financial commitment to athletics as a positive criterion? Sure. It wouldn't be close to integral, however.

Baylor is Memphis with better luck.

---

I'm sorry, that is just such silly sentiment. Crazy to me you think so poorly of your so called school, especially when facts don't support it. Memphis with better luck?!? Wow. Pretty sure Memphis doesn't have a $100M+ athletic budget. Such an ignorant statement.

For the record, most people outside of Texas I talk with about Baylor know very little about the scandal. As long as we get back to winning quickly, which we have taken first step in doing so by reaching bowl this year it will all be distant memory to outside world soon.

Also, Briles was just another good coach. He took a dormant program and got 2 conference titles. The run helped wake up the fan base and we got a new stadium and some national notoriety out of it. He got paid a lot of money and his son and son in law jobs within the college football industry. Then he got canned for bringing bad light upon the university. Positives and negatives. And now we move forward. Briles was a good starter kit. Now we move on to next step.

---

I don't consider that thinking poorly of Baylor. It's just factual. Memphis last year had a 50+ million dollar budget and they are in the AAC. Plus they have the FedEx billionaire willing to shell out all sorts of cash. They're a regional school like Baylor. Baylor has had the fortune of being in a major conference for a long time. If Memphis joined the Big 12 their budget would certainly rise.

I'm not sure what you think the "next step" is for Baylor. I'm not sure people at Baylor know.

---

You talk out of both sides of your mouth. The FedEx billionaire is good for Memphis but it negative that a individual booster is picking up tab at Baylor for the football coach.

It's all good man. Memphis is a mid major. Baylor is in a P5 conference. That fact isn't just by some mistake or luck. Sorry you think so poorly of Baylor. You should have gone to UT.

---

I'm sorry. You misunderstood. I'm saying that they have someone who can afford to give the program a lot of money, but that still doesn't help them develop a case for being added to a major conference. Memphis is a mid-major because they don't offer anything in terms of audience for tv sets.

You seem upset that I'm being honest. It's a known that Baylor faces the realignment chopping block like plenty of other schools. This upsets you, I guess. Even our most powerful boosters/regents have said as much. So you can be upset or bitter or whatever. It doesn't change the facts.

---

I'm curious to see how many fans we bring to the Texas bowl. That will be a good indicator if we even have a regional following at this point. When I went to Madison Square Garden to watch us in the sweet 16 a couple of years ago, we had almost no fans in the arena. It was really disappointing. The arena was packed . . . with other schools' fans.

In football, we were developing a statewide and national brand just 3 years ago and basically derailed it ourselves. It takes time, and contrary to all the revisionist history naysayers, we were headed in the right direction for the first time in my decades of following Baylor. I just hope we can regain the momentum. Living outside of Texas, it seems self evident to me that we are not on the national radar anymore.

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Chuckroast said:

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Stranger said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

---

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

---

When I say we were heading in the right direction under Starr, I'm not suggesting that he was this great administrator. We all know he was not previously experienced in academia. He was brought to Baylor as a figurehead since he was nationally known. It seemed his primary responsibilities were to create national name recognition and raise money. He succeeded on both counts. He also was instrumental in keeping the Big 12 together. His roles were at the 30,000 ft level, not at the ground level.

After the fact, people are trying to redefine what he was supposed to be doing. The problem is that whoever were the lead administrators for Baylor failed and were not held to the same level of accountability. Some chancellors are more involved in administration than others. I think Starr simply went down with the ship.

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Chuckroast said:

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Stranger said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

---

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

---

When I say we were heading in the right direction under Starr, I'm not suggesting that he was this great administrator. We all know he was not previously experienced in academia. He was brought to Baylor as a figurehead since he was nationally known. It seemed his primary responsibilities were to create national name recognition and raise money. He succeeded on both counts. He also was instrumental in keeping the Big 12 together. His roles were at the 30,000 ft level, not at the ground level.

After the fact, people are trying to redefine what he was supposed to be doing. The problem is that whoever were the lead administrators for Baylor failed and were not held to the same level of accountability. Some chancellors are more involved in administration than others. I think Starr simply went down with the ship.

---

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Chuckroast said:

---

Stranger said:

---

Chuckroast said:

---

TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

TheDom said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

BarleyMcDougal said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

---

Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

---

It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

---

The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

---

Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

---

Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

---

You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

---

Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

---

Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

---

We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

---

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

---

When I say we were heading in the right direction under Starr, I'm not suggesting that he was this great administrator. We all know he was not previously experienced in academia. He was brought to Baylor as a figurehead since he was nationally known. It seemed his primary responsibilities were to create national name recognition and raise money. He succeeded on both counts. He also was instrumental in keeping the Big 12 together. His roles were at the 30,000 ft level, not at the ground level.

After the fact, people are trying to redefine what he was supposed to be doing. The problem is that whoever were the lead administrators for Baylor failed and were not held to the same level of accountability. Some chancellors are more involved in administration than others. I think Starr simply went down with the ship.

---

Our problems begin and end at the board level with the simple conclusion that most have little grasp on what our strategic position is as a university. Look across the Baylor board and you won't see people with university experience in their bios. It speaks volumes about their egos that they won't acknowledge and address this..

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Timbear said:

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Are X and Milli the same person? Doesn't matter. The main thing that matters is that they. and Thee, keep pounding and pounding Briles as much as possible and every chance they get. We need those 3 to stay vigilant, and to never let an opportunity pass to keep pounding.

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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xiledinok said:

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WVA is not a national brand. You don't see people anywhere other than West Virginia wearing their gear.
You would get a weird look at an outside the bubble tailgate claiming West Virginia is a national brand.

---

No kidding. What a goofy argument. By that standard, outside of 10 schools - UT, OU, tOSU, Michigan, PSU, USC, Florida St, Miami, Alabama, LSU - everyone else is a "regional school". It goes on long enough and they not even sure what to think anymore.

---

What was the argument? What was the standard? And yes, WVU is a national football brand.

---

No, WV is not a national football brand any more than Baylor is... I'm not upset about talk of realignment at all, outside of you ignorance to the entire discussion. I didn't misunderstand your take at all, I just don't think you know much about what you speak of. You mentioned FedEX and compared Memphis to Baylor and that is nuts in so many ways, particularly when you backtracked and used big booster as positive for Memphis but a negative for Baylor. I am very well aware of the situation.

Through all this you have basically said if an institution is not a 40k student enrollment state school you have no shot at realignment. I guess that is your standard? It seems to be a moving target outside of Baylor sucks and has not shot for anything unless we cut corners. You make all these statements even though none of us even know what realignment will look like if it comes. If the college playoff goes to 8 which is most likely there probably not any realignment. Your logic is pretty faulty and severely bias and includes huge gaps that you either don't know and are assuming or you taken some info twisted it to fit your narrative and filling in with 1964 talking points.

---

It's not nuts. If Memphis had the fortune of being in a P5 conference for 30 years they'd likely sit in a very comparable spot to Baylor. I never said a big booster was negative for Baylor. I said that's why Briles got paid his salary. You're really losing your grip on this discussion. Nothing I'm saying has any emotion behind it. These are just facts.

What huge gaps do you speak of? Because my "narrative" and my antiquated talking points are slightly more current than 1964. It's called money and eyeballs. Do you think Baylor is a national draw every weekend in the fall? College football, believe it or not, is still a niche sport behind the NFL and NBA. Baylor is a niche team in a niche sport. I'm completely ok with acknowledging that. Have you seen anyone run to your defense here? No. Because I'm right and 99% of the board would know that. There are plenty of other college programs in the same boat and that's OK.

You can spout of a list of positives for Baylor and I'd have no problem saying that they are niceties. But they have no bearing on Baylor as a national draw in the context of athletics. Joe in Pensacola doesn't care that Baylor just built a new science building. There's no shame in admitting that we're a regional university.

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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xiledinok said:

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WVA is not a national brand. You don't see people anywhere other than West Virginia wearing their gear.
You would get a weird look at an outside the bubble tailgate claiming West Virginia is a national brand.

---

No kidding. What a goofy argument. By that standard, outside of 10 schools - UT, OU, tOSU, Michigan, PSU, USC, Florida St, Miami, Alabama, LSU - everyone else is a "regional school". It goes on long enough and they not even sure what to think anymore.

---

What was the argument? What was the standard? And yes, WVU is a national football brand.

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No, WV is not a national football brand any more than Baylor is... I'm not upset about talk of realignment at all, outside of you ignorance to the entire discussion. I didn't misunderstand your take at all, I just don't think you know much about what you speak of. You mentioned FedEX and compared Memphis to Baylor and that is nuts in so many ways, particularly when you backtracked and used big booster as positive for Memphis but a negative for Baylor. I am very well aware of the situation.

Through all this you have basically said if an institution is not a 40k student enrollment state school you have no shot at realignment. I guess that is your standard? It seems to be a moving target outside of Baylor sucks and has not shot for anything unless we cut corners. You make all these statements even though none of us even know what realignment will look like if it comes. If the college playoff goes to 8 which is most likely there probably not any realignment. Your logic is pretty faulty and severely bias and includes huge gaps that you either don't know and are assuming or you taken some info twisted it to fit your narrative and filling in with 1964 talking points.

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It's not nuts. If Memphis had the fortune of being in a P5 conference for 30 years they'd likely sit in a very comparable spot to Baylor. I never said a big booster was negative for Baylor. I said that's why Briles got paid his salary. You're really losing your grip on this discussion. Nothing I'm saying has any emotion behind it. These are just facts.

What huge gaps do you speak of? Because my "narrative" and my antiquated talking points are slightly more current than 1964. It's called money and eyeballs. Do you think Baylor is a national draw every weekend in the fall? College football, believe it or not, is still a niche sport behind the NFL and NBA. Baylor is a niche team in a niche sport. I'm completely ok with acknowledging that. Have you seen anyone run to your defense here? No. Because I'm right and 99% of the board would know that. There are plenty of other college programs in the same boat and that's OK.

You can spout of a list of positives for Baylor and I'd have no problem saying that they are niceties. But they have no bearing on Baylor as a national draw in the context of athletics. Joe in Pensacola doesn't care that Baylor just built a new science building. There's no shame in admitting that we're a regional university.

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Again, the $1.1B isn't going to a new science building. The funds are being used on athletics.

It hard to keep up with you bc the goalposts keep changing. You will have to explain your definition of "regional school" and list the items that you view as important in building an "athletic brand". National vs regional bc you all over the place. And to answer your question, yes, at points from 2011-2015 Baylor was a national draw on Saturday in the fall. And that national draw can certainly be achieved again through winning. I understand you are upset by Briles no long being our coach but you can't argue that if we win again and get in Top10 Baylor will be national draw. A national brand and draw are different.

If by saying regional school that means we aren't Ohio St then yes, that is true. 95% of schools by that definition are regional schools. But your definitions in this discussion and where Baylor fits among the the college landscape is weird and lucid.

You going to have to help me out and lay out more defined parameters to help make rational discussion. Because saying things like Memphis is Baylor with bad luck or WV is national brand in football don't make sense.

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TheDom said:

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Sorry, I meant to use word "fluid" and it went in wrong off my phone. Haha

Never said Baylor was national brand. It is clear Baylor is a "regional school". Again, you are moving the goal post. The point is, by definition 98% of schools are "regional". There are 10 or 12 schools which people would consider "national brands". WV isn't one of them. You were arguing that Baylor can't get a national draw or be a relevant school if realignment comes, which I disagree with. We don't even know what realignment would look like now compared to 2010. You keep changing the story.

When you say Baylor is a lucky Memphis or WV is a national brand in football you lose the argument or at least show you aren't much into looking at reality.

You will have to give me more defined parameters of what you mean moving forward to have any discussion with you.

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Chuckroast said:

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Stranger said:

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Chuckroast said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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xiledinok said:

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Baylor is not a target.
Art Briles was a moron post firing and upset the entire college football business world and is too dumb to figure out that after taking the money it was time to go away for a minute.

This ain't TAPPS, no one cares if you worship Satan or St. Peter, it's about making all the parties money. Notre Dame seemed to figure it out decades ago. Art and Ian were two lower level college football business minds. Those two were arrogant enough to believe their schedule was a good idea.
Look at them, Liberty and the Pizza League.

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Absolutely incorrect.

Christianity is a giant target today. And Baylor is as well. That's an incontrovertible fact. You need to wise up to who operates the sports industry.

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It's a fantasy when it comes to college football. Unless you are sheltered, no one sits around and discusses screwing Baylor because they are Christian.
Look who sponsors college football. You really believe the Chicken chain that is closed on Sundays hates Christians?

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The only two comparable institutions to Baylor are BYU and Notre Dame. Both are independent schools. They also have natural protections from the sporting world since they are insulated in certain manners. These two schools make a boatload of money and have religious connections that vastly outweigh Baylor's ties to Baptist theology.

That said, both are still routinely attacked by outside forces, but they carry on without the routine and petty infighting of Baylor because Mormons and Catholics are good at constricting information and controlling narratives. Simply put, they lock it down. Baylor needs to figure it out.

And yes, money is the driving factor, but there are other forces at play.

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Do you all sit around and discuss such nonsense at your tailgate?
No one cares in college sports whether or not a school is religious or not. They only care about making money.
Our brand's biggest issue was the fact we created zero bowl money for 15 years and didn't bother to realize it when we won conference, we became the flagship and carried the conference banner.

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Our bowl profits mean nothing. Scheduling means nothing. Do you sit around at home and discuss this with yourself?

"Stealing" what traditional powers consider as their own and disrupting those money trains is far more important. UT and OU are Pharma. They're Walmart. They're Google. You wanna disrupt the money from them, you gotta pay a price.

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You are off target on this one. It wasn't the fact we won conference over OU & UT it was our athletic department acted like jackwagons while doing it. We acted like a bunch of new money lottery winners. CABers want to tell the "it's bc we disrupted the applecart" narrative because LIKE ALWAYS it deflects the blame off him, Ian, Starr.

The truth is we sucked as a "business partner" with Starr, Ian, Briles leading the ship. Like X said, you can't not add to the pot for 15 years then win conference and stand on a stage and attempt to embarrass the commissioner and conference. Bad for business.

And if you think not making bowls and not scheduling games that reflect well for the conference matter then you really are lost and don't understand how this D1 P5 deal works.

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Baylor is NEVER making the playoff with a single loss. Never. You wanna say it with me? NEVER.

Going undefeated with a soft schedule is the only way. TCU scheduled Minnesota the same year that Ohio St jumped both Big 12 teams into the playoff. Their schedule could have gotten them in. You don't want to agree about all this? Fine. You're wrong and I'm not changing my mind. That you can't see how the whole college scheme plays out is insulting to your Baylor degree.

Bad business. LOL. Baylor made 5 straight bowl games before "embarrassing" Bowlsby. The anti-Baylor/indifference toward Baylor sentiment existed long before ANYBODY in any fashion gave them cause to go after the school/program. Are this many Baylor fans that naive?

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Sorry, this is the thinking of a G5 member not a P5 member. Exactly the reason the college football world teased Ian/Briles about their scheduling.

I see this interesting dichotomy of self image among the Baylor fan base. I think it is what makes the Briles gulf deeper and worst. The reality is if you want to be treated like a big time D1 P5 program then you gotta act like a big time D1 P5 program. We built a nice stadium and couple other nice buildings but that's about it previously. Think we finally learning what that really means and headed in right direction now.

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We were headed in the right direction under Starr. I just hope we're not back to business as usual.

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That's the funniest thing I've read today. Starr couldn't lead a silent prayer. He couldn't raise money. He was a lousy administrator.

Had he been paying attention, the entire scandal with title IX and the athletic department could have and should have been avoided.

And you should note that the law school faculty wanted him bought out of his tenure there. (Which happened). The Baylor law community had serious doubts about his legal acumen. Plus they couldn't stand being around his pompous ass.

He had been brought to Baylor as another puppet like Lilley. When he bucked the BOR they decided he was unnecessary to their plan.

He did have fun running onto the field with freshman, however.

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When I say we were heading in the right direction under Starr, I'm not suggesting that he was this great administrator. We all know he was not previously experienced in academia. He was brought to Baylor as a figurehead since he was nationally known. It seemed his primary responsibilities were to create national name recognition and raise money. He succeeded on both counts. He also was instrumental in keeping the Big 12 together. His roles were at the 30,000 ft level, not at the ground level.

After the fact, people are trying to redefine what he was supposed to be doing. The problem is that whoever were the lead administrators for Baylor failed and were not held to the same level of accountability. Some chancellors are more involved in administration than others. I think Starr simply went down with the ship.

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Ditto what Chuck said.

I never expected Ken to be an administrator. If he had been hired for that, then someone else made a mistake. He would tell you himself he didn't have those credentials. He connected well with the community and alumni and had he been given leeway, would not have let the BAA fight spiral out of control.

Was he a great fundraiser? Marginal at best, but considering that we were back sliding before and since his departure, I have to wonder what the standard is. Ken even groomed a successor in Elizabeth Davis, but she turned the Regents down for.....Furman.

Our problems begin and end at the board level with the simple conclusion that most have little grasp on what our strategic position is as a university. Look across the Baylor board and you won't see people with university experience in their bios. It speaks volumes about their egos that they won't acknowledge and address this..

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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Sorry, I meant to use word "fluid" and it went in wrong off my phone. Haha

Never said Baylor was national brand. It is clear Baylor is a "regional school". Again, you are moving the goal post. The point is, by definition 98% of schools are "regional". There are 10 or 12 schools which people would consider "national brands". WV isn't one of them. You were arguing that Baylor can't get a national draw or be a relevant school if realignment comes, which I disagree with. We don't even know what realignment would look like now compared to 2010. You keep changing the story.

When you say Baylor is a lucky Memphis or WV is a national brand in football you lose the argument or at least show you aren't much into looking at reality.

You will have to give me more defined parameters of what you mean moving forward to have any discussion with you.

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Baylor is a regional BRAND is what I mean. Small number of living alumni in a small tv market. We don't carry the state of Texas for viewership.

I've already laid out why Baylor is a "lucky version of Memphis." Consider if Baylor gets left out of the Big 12 in '95. We'd be Memphis...or worse.

There are no goalposts to be moved. You simply would like Baylor to be more than it is, which is wishful thinking at best. Notre Dame is the only private religious school that is a national brand and Baylor is never going to equal that. If Baptists were as fervent as Catholics in their attachment to that religion, ok maybe. Never going to happen.

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Jmhdfw said:

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Timbear said:

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Are X and Milli the same person? Doesn't matter. The main thing that matters is that they. and Thee, keep pounding and pounding Briles as much as possible and every chance they get. We need those 3 to stay vigilant, and to never let an opportunity pass to keep pounding.

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Yes they are. Milli/X needed to make multiple screen names to articially give the impression their CAB obsession was shared by many. Truth is the joy they take in tearing down CAB seems highly personal and speaks to their character- or lack thereof.

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TheDom said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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TheDom said:

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Sorry, I meant to use word "fluid" and it went in wrong off my phone. Haha

Never said Baylor was national brand. It is clear Baylor is a "regional school". Again, you are moving the goal post. The point is, by definition 98% of schools are "regional". There are 10 or 12 schools which people would consider "national brands". WV isn't one of them. You were arguing that Baylor can't get a national draw or be a relevant school if realignment comes, which I disagree with. We don't even know what realignment would look like now compared to 2010. You keep changing the story.

When you say Baylor is a lucky Memphis or WV is a national brand in football you lose the argument or at least show you aren't much into looking at reality.

You will have to give me more defined parameters of what you mean moving forward to have any discussion with you.

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Baylor is a regional BRAND is what I mean. Small number of living alumni in a small tv market. We don't carry the state of Texas for viewership.

I've already laid out why Baylor is a "lucky version of Memphis." Consider if Baylor gets left out of the Big 12 in '95. We'd be Memphis...or worse.

There are no goalposts to be moved. You simply would like Baylor to be more than it is, which is wishful thinking at best. Notre Dame is the only private religious school that is a national brand and Baylor is never going to equal that. If Baptists were as fervent as Catholics in their attachment to that religion, ok maybe. Never going to happen.

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In your opinion how many "National Brands" exist in the country?

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