Football
Sponsored By

Kaepernick

3,136 Views | 48 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by Thee University
bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
zunooreo said:

bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em

The fact that you're comparing Kaepernick, who whether you agree with him or not is an intelligent/thoughtful guy with a coherent and consistent message, to a self-destructive and likely mentally ill individual in AB pretty much shoots down the anti-Kaep argument that racism is no longer an issue.
I compared them simply as both NFL clown side shows these days. I did not try to compare their messages and/or problems. Read and think before you seek to criticize other posters.

Sic'em
Perhaps it is you that should think before you post. Because the only things Kaepernick and Antonio Brown have in common are that both are outspoken black men who used to play football. There is no other connection to be made between the two. And since we can conclude from your presence on this message board that it's not the football part you take exception to, that leaves what?

Invoking AB's name in a conversation about Kaepernick serves no other purpose but to create a comparison where one doesn't actually exist. And whether you realize/acknowledge it or not, it makes you look really bad.
bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EK bear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
Not enough people understand the effect their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Yep, and the irony is those with deep tribal ties don't even realize how badly their judgment has been clouded by them. Nor do they recognize/acknowledge/condemn acts of blatant hypocrisy they would never accept from those outside their group.

This thread's a perfect example really. Colin Kaepernick's sin wasn't/isn't really speaking/acting out. It's speaking/acting out with a message these people disagree with.

None of these people tell Kanye West (who has a far more problematic past than Kaepernick) to "Shut up and rap," when he says positive things about Trump or the Republican Party. No, they post the videos on Facebook and brag about triggering liberals.

The bottom line is humanity basically sucks. And I can't help but question any creator that would hardwire such ****ty characteristics into our very nature. People often blame religion for all the world's ills. But it's not religion, it's tribalism. With the exception of sex crimes, which highlight another horror of human nature, virtually all atrocities in human history can be attributed to tribalism. And people still cling to that **** in 2020. It's depressing to think about really.
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em

The fact that you're comparing Kaepernick, who whether you agree with him or not is an intelligent/thoughtful guy with a coherent and consistent message, to a self-destructive and likely mentally ill individual in AB pretty much shoots down the anti-Kaep argument that racism is no longer an issue.
I compared them simply as both NFL clown side shows these days. I did not try to compare their messages and/or problems. Read and think before you seek to criticize other posters.

Sic'em
Perhaps it is you that should think before you post. Because the only things Kaepernick and Antonio Brown have in common are that both are outspoken black men who used to play football. There is no other connection to be made between the two. And since we can conclude from your presence on this message board that it's not the football part you take exception to, that leaves what?

Invoking AB's name in a conversation about Kaepernick serves no other purpose but to create a comparison where one doesn't actually exist. And whether you realize/acknowledge it or not, it makes you look really bad.
I disagree. They are both (1) successful pro football players, (2) who are not playing now. (3) right or wrong, they are not playing due mainly to off-field issues, (4) they both frequently speak out on racism and other alleged social justice issues, (5) they both blame some of their problems and treatment on racism and off-field issues, (6) both are wealthy beyond what most can imagine, and (7) to some, both are "clown shows." That's a lot in common beyond them being African America. We certainly can debate whether it's the best analogy, but to reflexively allege a racial motive is wrong.
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
Not enough people understand the effect their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Yep, and the irony is those with deep tribal ties don't even realize how badly their judgment has been clouded by them. Nor do they recognize/acknowledge/condemn acts of blatant hypocrisy they would never accept from those outside their group.

This thread's a perfect example really. Colin Kaepernick's sin wasn't/isn't really speaking/acting out. It's speaking/acting out with a message these people disagree with.

None of these people tell Kanye West (who has a far more problematic past than Kaepernick) to "Shut up and rap," when he says positive things about Trump or the Republican Party. No, they post the videos on Facebook and brag about triggering liberals.

The bottom line is humanity basically sucks. And I can't help but question any creator that would hardwire such ****ty characteristics into our very nature. People often blame religion for all the world's ills. But it's not religion, it's tribalism. With the exception of sex crimes, which highlight another horror of human nature, virtually all atrocities in human history can be attributed to tribalism. And people still cling to that **** in 2020. It's depressing to think about really.
Sorry, disagree with you again. Kanye doesn't protest our anthem at a sporting event. You challenged the Kap/Brown analogy, but your analogy is full of holes. Also disagree with you view of tribalism. I think most major atrocities have been about money, power, major political differences, and some religions.
bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sombear said:

bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

bear2be2 said:

zunooreo said:

Kaepernick is not a victim of anything, other than of his own ignorance and of the friends he surrounds himself with. He is a Top 1%'er in America, but has chosen to be nothing more than a strange clown side show now, like AB. Sad. He has given nothing back to society; the same society and nation that gave him his 1%'er wealth. Like I stated, I just would like him to go away and stop leeching off of football. Football, a game he was only ever average at (at best) and squandered away.

Sic'em

The fact that you're comparing Kaepernick, who whether you agree with him or not is an intelligent/thoughtful guy with a coherent and consistent message, to a self-destructive and likely mentally ill individual in AB pretty much shoots down the anti-Kaep argument that racism is no longer an issue.
I compared them simply as both NFL clown side shows these days. I did not try to compare their messages and/or problems. Read and think before you seek to criticize other posters.

Sic'em
Perhaps it is you that should think before you post. Because the only things Kaepernick and Antonio Brown have in common are that both are outspoken black men who used to play football. There is no other connection to be made between the two. And since we can conclude from your presence on this message board that it's not the football part you take exception to, that leaves what?

Invoking AB's name in a conversation about Kaepernick serves no other purpose but to create a comparison where one doesn't actually exist. And whether you realize/acknowledge it or not, it makes you look really bad.
I disagree. They are both (1) successful pro football players, (2) who are not playing now. (3) right or wrong, they are not playing due mainly to off-field issues, (4) they both frequently speak out on racism and other alleged social justice issues, (5) they both blame some of their problems and treatment on racism and off-field issues, (6) both are wealthy beyond what most can imagine, and (7) to some, both are "clown shows." That's a lot in common beyond them being African America. We certainly can debate whether it's the best analogy, but to reflexively allege a racial motive is wrong.
It's a ridiculous analogy. If you want to defend it, feel free. But there's no valid comparison to be made between those two individuals.

Colin Kaepernick is out of football because he took a political stand. Antonio Brown is out of football because he's a toxic individual and potentially a sexual predator. AB has literally no place in this discussion and likely wouldn't be if he and the subject of this thread didn't share certain physical characteristics.
bear2be2
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sombear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
Not enough people understand the effect their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Yep, and the irony is those with deep tribal ties don't even realize how badly their judgment has been clouded by them. Nor do they recognize/acknowledge/condemn acts of blatant hypocrisy they would never accept from those outside their group.

This thread's a perfect example really. Colin Kaepernick's sin wasn't/isn't really speaking/acting out. It's speaking/acting out with a message these people disagree with.

None of these people tell Kanye West (who has a far more problematic past than Kaepernick) to "Shut up and rap," when he says positive things about Trump or the Republican Party. No, they post the videos on Facebook and brag about triggering liberals.

The bottom line is humanity basically sucks. And I can't help but question any creator that would hardwire such ****ty characteristics into our very nature. People often blame religion for all the world's ills. But it's not religion, it's tribalism. With the exception of sex crimes, which highlight another horror of human nature, virtually all atrocities in human history can be attributed to tribalism. And people still cling to that **** in 2020. It's depressing to think about really.
Sorry, disagree with you again. Kanye doesn't protest our anthem at a sporting event. You challenged the Kap/Brown analogy, but your analogy is full of holes. Also disagree with you view of tribalism. I think most major atrocities have been about money, power, major political differences, and some religions.
You just proved my point.

You might as well have just said, "Kanye doesn't do things I disagree with."

And I challenge you to name a major global atrocity that didn't have a tribal or ideological component. They're almost all textbook cases of in-/out-group psychology.
EK bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sombear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
Not enough people understand the effect their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Yep, and the irony is those with deep tribal ties don't even realize how badly their judgment has been clouded by them. Nor do they recognize/acknowledge/condemn acts of blatant hypocrisy they would never accept from those outside their group.

This thread's a perfect example really. Colin Kaepernick's sin wasn't/isn't really speaking/acting out. It's speaking/acting out with a message these people disagree with.

None of these people tell Kanye West (who has a far more problematic past than Kaepernick) to "Shut up and rap," when he says positive things about Trump or the Republican Party. No, they post the videos on Facebook and brag about triggering liberals.

The bottom line is humanity basically sucks. And I can't help but question any creator that would hardwire such ****ty characteristics into our very nature. People often blame religion for all the world's ills. But it's not religion, it's tribalism. With the exception of sex crimes, which highlight another horror of human nature, virtually all atrocities in human history can be attributed to tribalism. And people still cling to that **** in 2020. It's depressing to think about really.
Sorry, disagree with you again. Kanye doesn't protest our anthem at a sporting event. You challenged the Kap/Brown analogy, but your analogy is full of holes. Also disagree with you view of tribalism. I think most major atrocities have been about money, power, major political differences, and some religions.


It's important to point out that Kap isn't protesting the anthem he's protesting excessive force by police. Again he started kneeling bc a Navy SEAL recommended that option to him bc the SEAL felt that sitting out or staying in the locker room was disrespectful while kneeling was not.

** Edit: Nate Boyer was a Green Beret not a Navy SEAL.
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bear2be2 said:

sombear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

bear2be2 said:

EK bear said:

I think some ppl get lost in the trees and can't see the forest on this issue.

There is a middle ground between "everything is fine stop complaining" and "everyone's out to get me". Things aren't great for a lot of folks when dealing with the police. Everyone's run into a cop on a power trip now imagine that same guy seeks you out.

Good post. On this issue, like most others, it's not either/or. It's both/and. But we stupid humans are too tribal to understand and productively deal with nuance.
Not enough people understand the effect their tribal nature is hard wired in their brain over hundreds of thousands of years.
Yep, and the irony is those with deep tribal ties don't even realize how badly their judgment has been clouded by them. Nor do they recognize/acknowledge/condemn acts of blatant hypocrisy they would never accept from those outside their group.

This thread's a perfect example really. Colin Kaepernick's sin wasn't/isn't really speaking/acting out. It's speaking/acting out with a message these people disagree with.

None of these people tell Kanye West (who has a far more problematic past than Kaepernick) to "Shut up and rap," when he says positive things about Trump or the Republican Party. No, they post the videos on Facebook and brag about triggering liberals.

The bottom line is humanity basically sucks. And I can't help but question any creator that would hardwire such ****ty characteristics into our very nature. People often blame religion for all the world's ills. But it's not religion, it's tribalism. With the exception of sex crimes, which highlight another horror of human nature, virtually all atrocities in human history can be attributed to tribalism. And people still cling to that **** in 2020. It's depressing to think about really.
Sorry, disagree with you again. Kanye doesn't protest our anthem at a sporting event. You challenged the Kap/Brown analogy, but your analogy is full of holes. Also disagree with you view of tribalism. I think most major atrocities have been about money, power, major political differences, and some religions.
You just proved my point.

You might as well have just said, "Kanye doesn't do things I disagree with."

And I challenge you to name a major global atrocity that didn't have a tribal or ideological component. They're almost all textbook cases of in-/out-group psychology.
No, it's not WHAT the message is, but rather, HOW they express it. I would criticize Kap even if his message were one with which I agreed. I don't think anyone should protest during our anthem at a sporting event. It's just that simple. I could definitely spend pages rebutting some of Kap's message, but that's not the point.
Mitch Henessey
How long do you want to ignore this user?
While I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's opinion on this matter through message board posts necessarily, I will say that I'm proud that this thread hasn't devolved into personal insults, and that pretty much every poster had expressed their view in a coherent and clear manner. Kudos to everyone for engaging in civil discourse.

If I may, there is a book I read that was very eye opening on the topic. It's called "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. You may not agree with the premise of the book, but it's certainly thought provoking and convicting, at the very least.
Thee University
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's no wonder!
RightRevBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Our criminal justice system does have issues of racism, and most white Americans, which I am, are fine with ignoring it.

In Temple, we had an unarmed African American man pulled over by police and shot in his car. There has been little to no outrage in the white community. We should be up in arms about a police officer shooting an unarmed man. The police officer pulled his gun as he exited his patrol car. If he was really afraid of bodily harm why did he not wait for backup. The case is ongoing, but the Texas Rangers investigated this and recommended prosecuting the officer. I do not fear being shot by police when I am pulled over, but this is a real fear for many African Americans.

We can point to other incidents in Texas. Look at Botham Jean who was killed while eating on the couch in his apartment by a white, female police officer. The officer got ten years in jail. If the tables were reversed and Botham Jean killed her in the same way, he would have gotten the needle.

You can make the poverty argument all day long, but it is weak. People of color get harsher sentences for similar crimes on a regular basis.
sombear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RightRevBear said:

Our criminal justice system does have issues of racism, and most white Americans, which I am, are fine with ignoring it.

In Temple, we had an unarmed African American man pulled over by police and shot in his car. There has been little to no outrage in the white community. We should be up in arms about a police officer shooting an unarmed man. The police officer pulled his gun as he exited his patrol car. If he was really afraid of bodily harm why did he not wait for backup. The case is ongoing, but the Texas Rangers investigated this and recommended prosecuting the officer. I do not fear being shot by police when I am pulled over, but this is a real fear for many African Americans.

We can point to other incidents in Texas. Look at Botham Jean who was killed while eating on the couch in his apartment by a white, female police officer. The officer got ten years in jail. If the tables were reversed and Botham Jean killed her in the same way, he would have gotten the needle.

You can make the poverty argument all day long, but it is weak. People of color get harsher sentences for similar crimes on a regular basis.
Cops who shoot for no reason are scumbags who should get the chair. Could I be any more clear on that???? However, the media distorts the bigger picture. These incidents are exceedingly rare, and whites are more likely to be victims of unjustified police violence. Again, one is too many, but there's a better chance of being struck by lightning than be unjustifiably shot by a cop. As for Botham Jean, tragic and unacceptable, but I take issue with your conclusion. Judges/juries have long given cops shorter sentences, white or black cops.
Thee University
How long do you want to ignore this user?
RightRevBear said:

Our criminal justice system does have issues of racism, and most white Americans, which I am, are fine with ignoring it.

In Temple, we had an unarmed African American man pulled over by police and shot in his car. There has been little to no outrage in the white community. We should be up in arms about a police officer shooting an unarmed man. The police officer pulled his gun as he exited his patrol car. If he was really afraid of bodily harm why did he not wait for backup. The case is ongoing, but the Texas Rangers investigated this and recommended prosecuting the officer. I do not fear being shot by police when I am pulled over, but this is a real fear for many African Americans.

We can point to other incidents in Texas. Look at Botham Jean who was killed while eating on the couch in his apartment by a white, female police officer. The officer got ten years in jail. If the tables were reversed and Botham Jean killed her in the same way, he would have gotten the needle.

You can make the poverty argument all day long, but it is weak. People of color get harsher sentences for similar crimes on a regular basis.
Yes, people of color do get harsher sentences. Are you calling hispanics "people of color" also?

Part of the answer few mention is the arrest offense and the defendant's criminal history. Minority arrestees are disproportionately concentrated in federal districts that have higher sentences in general.

When a cop tells me to do something, I bust my @$$ doing it as fast and friendly as I can. I don't talk back, I don't take a step towards an officer and I go out of my way making him feel like he is in control. In other words, I respect law and order and in particular when the officer is a minority officer telling me to do something. As a large white man I realize I am the most hated sliver of America right now.
Thee University
How long do you want to ignore this user?
sombear said:

RightRevBear said:

Our criminal justice system does have issues of racism, and most white Americans, which I am, are fine with ignoring it.

In Temple, we had an unarmed African American man pulled over by police and shot in his car. There has been little to no outrage in the white community. We should be up in arms about a police officer shooting an unarmed man. The police officer pulled his gun as he exited his patrol car. If he was really afraid of bodily harm why did he not wait for backup. The case is ongoing, but the Texas Rangers investigated this and recommended prosecuting the officer. I do not fear being shot by police when I am pulled over, but this is a real fear for many African Americans.

We can point to other incidents in Texas. Look at Botham Jean who was killed while eating on the couch in his apartment by a white, female police officer. The officer got ten years in jail. If the tables were reversed and Botham Jean killed her in the same way, he would have gotten the needle.

You can make the poverty argument all day long, but it is weak. People of color get harsher sentences for similar crimes on a regular basis.
Cops who shoot for no reason are scumbags who should get the chair. Could I be any more clear on that???? However, the media distorts the bigger picture. These incidents are exceedingly rare, and whites are more likely to be victims of unjustified police violence. Again, one is too many, but there's a better chance of being struck by lightning than be unjustifiably shot by a cop. As for Botham Jean, tragic and unacceptable, but I take issue with your conclusion. Judges/juries have long given cops shorter sentences, white or black cops.
Some cops (particularly white) are inherently afraid to death of people of color. Every night/day they go to work with a bad feeling about having to confront or arrest men or women from another ethnic background.

Criminals deserve the chair much more often than a bad cop or a cop who snapped when presented with tough decisions that must be made in an instant.

These riots in metro cities where everyone is bashing police need to go unchecked for a few months. Take the police and law and order out of it and let the public see what takes place.
Page 2 of 2
 
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.