HOW TO GROW DOWNTOWN

9,949 Views | 87 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by ProTexana
UBBY
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?
BBear77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.

Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?
Downtown, from what I've been told, is actually doing pretty well as far as development goes. Properties there are overvalued, which is an issue for long-term growth, IMO, at least for small business owners. I think building that entertainment complex near the area would help, so long as they build a couple more hotels.

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BBear77 said:

What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.
Not a mixture of dilapidation and poverty is a good start.

Has anyone ever been to downtown Lincoln, NE? It's Waco without the bums.
BBear77
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.
Not a mixture of dilapidation and poverty is a good start.

Has anyone ever been to downtown Lincoln, NE? It's Waco without the bums.
So if you razed all of the less than desirable real estate and help relocate poverty (an issue Waco struggles with) to West Waco, would this be your vision of a better downtown?
PartyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Actually alot of young people and singles of various ages do live downtown now in the lofts etc. I dont mean to overstate it but, if you are on Austin Ave at nights now, there is quite a bit a traffic moving on it. Particularly weekends (pedestrian and vehicles). There is usually live music somewhere as well particularly on weekends.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BBear77 said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.
Not a mixture of dilapidation and poverty is a good start.

Has anyone ever been to downtown Lincoln, NE? It's Waco without the bums.
So if you razed all of the less than desirable real estate and help relocate poverty (an issue Waco struggles with) to West Waco, would this be your vision of a better downtown?
I don't know if you have to relocate poverty (to the East or South, btw), but I would start by demolishing/remodeling certain properties and start closing off and literally ripping up streets. Then I would have someone come in and design a nice neighborhood in the area. 5th and Waco drive comes to mind. Call it Magnolia Place or some crap. Waco needs beautiful houses near and in downtown a la most chic Southern cities. And they need to be blocked off from the crime-ridden areas.

Making downtown less accessible from Waco Dr. would be a great start.
PartyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.
Not a mixture of dilapidation and poverty is a good start.

Has anyone ever been to downtown Lincoln, NE? It's Waco without the bums.
So if you razed all of the less than desirable real estate and help relocate poverty (an issue Waco struggles with) to West Waco, would this be your vision of a better downtown?
I don't know if you have to relocate poverty (to the East or South, btw), but I would start by demolishing/remodeling certain properties and start closing off and literally ripping up streets. Then I would have someone come in and design a nice neighborhood in the area. 5th and Waco drive comes to mind. Call it Magnolia Place or some crap. Waco needs beautiful houses near and in downtown a la most chic Southern cities. And they need to be blocked off from the crime-ridden areas.

Making downtown less accessible from Waco Dr. would be a great start.
Austin Avenue and most other downtown streets start becoming nice residential neighborhoods at about 18th street going away from downtown at that point and always have been actually.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
PartyBear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

BBear77 said:

What is the vision of what you wan t Downtown Waco to become? Once you know that, then you determine the problems that have to be addressed and the steps necessary to proceed.
Not a mixture of dilapidation and poverty is a good start.

Has anyone ever been to downtown Lincoln, NE? It's Waco without the bums.
So if you razed all of the less than desirable real estate and help relocate poverty (an issue Waco struggles with) to West Waco, would this be your vision of a better downtown?
I don't know if you have to relocate poverty (to the East or South, btw), but I would start by demolishing/remodeling certain properties and start closing off and literally ripping up streets. Then I would have someone come in and design a nice neighborhood in the area. 5th and Waco drive comes to mind. Call it Magnolia Place or some crap. Waco needs beautiful houses near and in downtown a la most chic Southern cities. And they need to be blocked off from the crime-ridden areas.

Making downtown less accessible from Waco Dr. would be a great start.
Austin Avenue and most other downtown streets start becoming nice residential neighborhoods at about 18th street going away from downtown at that point and always have been actually.
Yeah, I've seen that. But again, they also sit square in a crappy part of Waco, where anybody can just walk up and down that street. And they do. Like I said in another thread, Waco would need something on a massive scale to actually make real changes. Until they get an influx of educated, money-spending people that enjoy urban-chic lifestyles, it ain't gonna happen.
UBBY
How long do you want to ignore this user?
How beneficial would the heritage square development be?
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UBBY said:

How beneficial would the heritage square development be?
Meh.

It would keep more tourists spending in downtown, assuming Magnolia can keep the ball rolling. Again, long-term? I see it having little substantial impact on the area.

Prove me wrong Waco!
Edmond Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.










Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
Cbh
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'd love a lock and leave/condo-type development that I could buy and use as a second home, game weekends, etc. and potentially rent for supplemental income when I don't want to use it. Something other than student housing or an old house. I would think there could be demand for this at the right price point
Lund Vernquist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Close a street for a couple blocks and turn it into a pedestrian mall, a la Market Square in Knoxville TN or Pearl Street in Boulder.
PartyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Um...no. That killed what survived the tornado back in the 70s. Downtown is finally making a come back from all of that.
PartyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cbh said:

I'd love a lock and leave/condo-type development that I could buy and use as a second home, game weekends, etc. and potentially rent for supplemental income when I don't want to use it. Something other than student housing or an old house. I would think there could be demand for this at the right price point
There are several places like that downtown and more planned. You should look into it.
Funky Town Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
There will always be people looking at the why it can'ts. Cities that accomplish what you desire do so because of the people who see the cans. Ft Worth is a classic example. Lots of folks hate the Bass Family, but the reality is that they took at downtown that was MUCH worse than Waco is in being surrounded by bad areas and turned it into a case study that loads of cities have tried to follow.

When you consider downtown Waco over the last 25 years, it is night and day different and better. It appears to be on a sustainable path. Sometimes in these kinds of things it takes patience and a dogged belief that it will happen. Just like any other entrepreneurial venture. I personally see so many positives down there from when I left in 97. No need to be super negative on it. It's moving the right way.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Funky Town Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
There will always be people looking at the why it can'ts. Cities that accomplish what you desire do so because of the people who see the cans. Ft Worth is a classic example. Lots of folks hate the Bass Family, but the reality is that they took at downtown that was MUCH worse than Waco is in being surrounded by bad areas and turned it into a case study that loads of cities have tried to follow.

When you consider downtown Waco over the last 25 years, it is night and day different and better. It appears to be on a sustainable path. Sometimes in these kinds of things it takes patience and a dogged belief that it will happen. Just like any other entrepreneurial venture. I personally see so many positives down there from when I left in 97. No need to be super negative on it. It's moving the right way.
I don't attach negative or positive to these discussions, nor does an opinion even matter. I'm talking logistics. Waco has a bevy of hurdles to overcome. That's not bashing the city; it's just a fact. It's no different from many other cities of the same size that face the same obstacles.

Any billionaire that loves Waco and doesn't mind shelling out millions to improve the area is more than welcome to do so.
boxster
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
Most towns Waco's size have a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. But towns Waco's size that have a university located in it have a bit of an easier time growing their own home town companies that drive employment. Hopefully with the BRIC, that will happen in Waco.

What he wants people to know about Baylor football: I want people to see that Baylor is the class of college football. Record GPAs, 26 different majors, guys challenging themselves to be the best they can be. Guys working in the community and guys working to be the best they can be in football. Want people to know Baylor is a great place as a University. -Coach Matt Rhule
boxster
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
I think you're overstating things.
  • Baylor is on one side (vibrant, affluent)
  • Castle Heights is west.
  • North is sketchy, but you have Cameron Park that people are drawn to.
  • And the river is a natural barrier on the East/NE side.
Throw in an adjacent burgeoning tourist area, and I see plenty to work with.

What he wants people to know about Baylor football: I want people to see that Baylor is the class of college football. Record GPAs, 26 different majors, guys challenging themselves to be the best they can be. Guys working in the community and guys working to be the best they can be in football. Want people to know Baylor is a great place as a University. -Coach Matt Rhule
Boernebear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cbh said:

I'd love a lock and leave/condo-type development that I could buy and use as a second home, game weekends, etc. and potentially rent for supplemental income when I don't want to use it. Something other than student housing or an old house. I would think there could be demand for this at the right price point


There is demand for this, although not much product so pricing is relatively high. Behrens Lofts is currently converting from rentals to for sale condos. Pricing is about $230-300/sf if I remember correctly.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boxster said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

Edmond Bear said:

BarleyMcDougal said:

UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently. What will help downtown grow and develop for Waco? I've talked to many people in the Waco area and most of them say that you couldn't pay them to move downtown.
My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt.
Is Magnolia a positive or negative for people to move downtown?

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

Sadly, downtown is situated very close to a very crappy part of town and it's surrounded by dilapidated houses. It's a mishmash of weird, unlike almost any other city I've seen. That tornado in the 50's really did a number on the city, followed by poor management which exists up to today. I've said it before, jokingly, that Waco needs to close off some streets, essentially removing them from being near the crappy neighborhoods.

Most downtowns are near a crappy part of town. Dallas has the Fair Park area. Houston is a giant slum with pockets of cool surrounded by some nice suburbs. New Orleans is like Houston.

If you want to go smaller, Tyler has the Locust drive ho hang-out just north of downtown.

I do agree that in the aftermath of the tornado some terrible decisions were made. Pushing all of the trash into the river made the river unusable and not attractive for development. I understand that people at the time were just trying to survive and didn't have alot of great options.

Waco faces the same chicken or the egg issues as other downtowns. They need jobs to attract people to attract development. And, they need development to attract people to attract jobs. As you get more development, other businesses will look at relocating or adding a large branch to downtown.

I think Magnolia is a catalyst to get the ball rolling. If it keeps growing, the people and then development will follow. I think the city is correctly trying to accelerate the process with TIF funding. If downtown keeps developing, Waco will be able to attract a branch of a company that has 200-300 jobs. Then later, another that adds 500-600 jobs and it will snowball up. Eventually, companies may look at relocating the HQ to Waco.
It all starts with money. I think it'd be great for the city if Magnolia sparked some growth/redevelopment, but historically Waco has had a difficult job bringing in companies and getting them to stay. Like others have mentioned, it's too close to Austin and Dallas. Waco doesn't have an international airport. It doesn't have mainstay attractions. And they can't offer the same tax breaks.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's going to take an extremely unique, hybridized plan to develop sustainable growth.

As far as downtown, the truth is that it's not just adjacent to bad areas. It's literally surrounded on all sides.
I think you're overstating things.
  • Baylor is on one side (vibrant, affluent)
  • Castle Heights is west.
  • North is sketchy, but you have Cameron Park that people are drawn to.
  • And the river is a natural barrier on the East/NE side.
Throw in an adjacent burgeoning tourist area, and I see plenty to work with.
I'm not. Baylor is across I-35. Castle Heights is not that close to downtown. And there are sizable chunks of low-income housing between downtown and that neighborhood. The river is not a natural barrier when you have multiple bridges funneling the East side into downtown. Also, the riverwalk is a haven for bums and the homeless.

Again, these are just facts. If Waco wants people to live downtown, they need to incorporate some actual nice neighborhoods that are gated or protected. Waco needs more of an eye appeal similar to Georgetown.
OsoCoreyell
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Be smart about letting Magnolia and other creative business people do their thing. Think about things that will be a problem for developers and risk takers. Also think about things that will be a problem for the population that is there now. Is there a chance to solve both problems?

E.g. - There's no doubt that there's a chance to provide better services to lower income folks and also try to do something about the homeless problem. Can development actually help? Is there a chance for better facilities and partnerships with developers? I think the answer is "yes." Are there development opportunities that can provide good, high-paying blue collar jobs to the working folks that live near downtown?

It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. There can be more than one winner.
Yogi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Magnolia > Austin Avenue Mall
Old300Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It is interesting to me the way different people look at things. I may be totally nave about this subject, but I thought the growth of downtown Waco over the last 10 years was nothing short of amazing. I realize that Houston and Dallas have huge revitalization projects that transform areas into posh enclaves of the cities. My question is does this sort of thing happen to mid size cities like Waco? I suppose we will find out if Brazos Commons ever gets off the ground.
Fred Barber
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Old300Bear said:

It is interesting to me the way different people look at things. I may be totally nave about this subject, but I thought the growth of downtown Waco over the last 10 years was nothing short of amazing. I realize that Houston and Dallas have huge revitalization projects that transform areas into posh enclaves of the cities. My question is does this sort of thing happen to mid size cities like Waco? I suppose we will find out if Brazos Commons ever gets off the ground.
Waco's downtown improvement is relative. It went from horrible to average. Outside of Magnolia, it's not like it's some major attraction. It definitely has good qualities and bad qualities.

I don't necessarily think Waco's ambition should be posh. Perhaps Americana is the way to go. The deep south has some cool cities that mix both.
Yogi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Old300Bear said:

It is interesting to me the way different people look at things. I may be totally nave about this subject, but I thought the growth of downtown Waco over the last 10 years was nothing short of amazing. I realize that Houston and Dallas have huge revitalization projects that transform areas into posh enclaves of the cities. My question is does this sort of thing happen to mid size cities like Waco? I suppose we will find out if Brazos Commons ever gets off the ground.
Check out the transformation of the Overton neighbor hood in Lubbock beginning around 2003. It is very comparable to the redevelopment in Waco.







BaylorGuy314
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The poverty situation downtown is a moot point. Almost every single downtown - in Texas, at least - has this issue or had it at one time.

The issues downtown Waco faces that is unique is two fold:

1. We need more white collar jobs downtown. Those folks will tend to spend their entertainment and dining dollars downtown which will encourage the growth of bars/restaurants/music venues/etc. They also tend to have higher incomes that allow for residential / mixed-use developments to be successful. It also allows for single family living projects in the near vicinity. Once you get a core of viable residential/dining/entertainment/music venues/etc, all sorts of doors open up for other ancillary projects.

2. Most cities that had a radical transformation of their downtowns also had a situation in which the new growth (suburbs) started getting so far out that it became appealing to just live downtown rather than try to commute. Waco won't have this problem for a while. You can still get from Lorena (which is most definetely the 'burbs) to downtown in 15 minutes. In other words, Waco is still in a situation in which downtown restaurants/eateries/jobs/etc don't require you live nearby to enjoy them. Sure, you can live in Conroe and enjoy downtown Houston. You can live in Celina and enjoy downtown Dallas. But those are now pretty massive treks and it's gotten to the point that people would rather just live near Downtown Dallas or Downtown Houston then try to make that drive. Waco's not there - and won't be, for at least another 10-20 years.

What Waco does have going for it is a massive private university right next to downtown. And the river right next to downtown. And Magnolia, which is cliche but has brought a lot to our city. Waco is growing so with those other items, I see no reason that downtown won't continue to grow but it will take either #1 or #2 above for it to REALLY take off. Until then, I think you'll see a general upward trend with years of rapid growth and then years of levelling off, depending on outside variables.
Banned BarleyMcDougal
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BaylorGuy314 said:

The poverty situation downtown is a moot point. Almost every single downtown - in Texas, at least - has this issue or had it at one time.
It's not a moot point when you consider that Waco has an extraordinarily high poverty rate for a city of its size. Outside of South Texas, Waco kinda stands alone in this regard. I'm not sure every downtown, other than metropolitan areas, is dealing with the scale that Waco handles.

I agree with you about white collar jobs, but that's a whole separate can of worms and speaks to the chicken and egg analogy from earlier. How is the city going to lure some major corporation (or a smaller branch) without making some substantial effort at boosting downtown?

It's all about...Money. Money. Money. Revitalization is just another word for money.
Old300Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The Overton area in Lubbock is very impressive, but is really apples and oranges compared to Waco. The Overton is almost an extension of Tech. From what I have seen it is almost exclusively apartments and establishments geared to the rapidly expanding Tech student body. Baylor is pretty much maxed out enrollment wise where Tech is hell bent on keeping pace with A&M and Texas.
Fred Barber
Yogi
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I personally like urban living. No yard work. Lots of good services available. Great for guys who work alot.
Funky Town Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BarleyMcDougal said:

Old300Bear said:

It is interesting to me the way different people look at things. I may be totally nave about this subject, but I thought the growth of downtown Waco over the last 10 years was nothing short of amazing. I realize that Houston and Dallas have huge revitalization projects that transform areas into posh enclaves of the cities. My question is does this sort of thing happen to mid size cities like Waco? I suppose we will find out if Brazos Commons ever gets off the ground.
Waco's downtown improvement is relative. It went from horrible to average. Outside of Magnolia, it's not like it's some major attraction. It definitely has good qualities and bad qualities.

I don't necessarily think Waco's ambition should be posh. Perhaps Americana is the way to go. The deep south has some cool cities that mix both.


Sincere question. How old are you. The transformation of downtown over the last 25 is substantial. The fact that there actually things to do there on any given night is honestly staggering compared to the early 90's.

You keep claiming facts, but you just sound negative. If there was a viable public school option living in that area you would likely see a radical transformation. WISD improvement is vastly more needed than gates on neighborhoods. As a parent, the school thing would be incredibly more important.

And rather than focusing on corporate relocations, fostering a vibrant entrepreneur community that creates jobs rather than imports them will go a lot further. Encourage the bright young minds that it's cool and you would be shocked what can happen.
EnglishBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UBBY said:

I've been thinking about this recently...

...My mom and her family moved away from downtown during the late 1960's when the black community started to move in and around downtown and moved to Hewitt...

What are the problems and what are some possible solutions to this issue?

One solution could potentially be "Don't immediately move away when 'the black community start(s) to move in.'"
PartyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It seems a couple of you are not actually following what is going on in Waco. Some of you keep saying Waco should be doing this and that which is actually occurring. It's like around in 2013 someone saying you know Baylor really should go to the hurry up spread offense if it wants to get out of the XII's basement in football.

With regard to east Waco. It is also being revitalized right across the river from down town as well. New nice hotels, retail etc are planned over there as well.
Last Page
Page 1 of 3
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.