BarleyMcDougal said:

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CTbruin said:

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I've been here since 1957.

There is more going on downtown now since the 50s.

There are very few vacancies downtown. Mostly what is left is tear down property.

"This thread development is about 5 20 years late." Apologies, City of Waco

Visit us sometime

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I kid though. I have been to downtown Waco...let's say more than just a few times. While I appreciate what the current ongoings around the area, I absolutely, 100% believe that it's a bubble with a limited shelf life. Businesses in Waco tend to fail quickly for one reason or another.

I'm sure some of you are developers or know developers. And here's what I've learned over the years about developers. They'll remodel/build something and just wait...for years on end. That thread about the Luxe is a perfect example. Waco is not a "build it and they'll come" town, though many people over the years have tried this.

This might come off as negative, but my arguments are made based on what I've seen over the years in Waco. If you're expecting Magnolia to kick-start a long-term upward trend, I'd disagree. BUT, I hope for the best for Waco.

If there is a city that's due, hell OVERLY DUE, for some good karma, it's Waco. I feel bad for people that grew up in Waco, honestly. Outside of Magnolia, it's been a long time since anything positive has been attached to the city. People still mention Koresh and that wasn't even in Waco. So, I have a reserved (not negative) opinion about all this, yet I sincerely wish the city well.

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Try 30 to 40 years late. Some of us tried to get on the Tech train in the 80's only to be told, wasn't going to happen but that was then and this is now.

Not going to be here when it all comes together but will enjoy the ride as the younger generations take the reins and move forward.

BBear77 said:

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BarleyMcDougal said:

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CTbruin said:

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I've been here since 1957.

There is more going on downtown now since the 50s.

There are very few vacancies downtown. Mostly what is left is tear down property.

"This thread development is about 5 20 years late." Apologies, City of Waco

Visit us sometime

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I kid though. I have been to downtown Waco...let's say more than just a few times. While I appreciate what the current ongoings around the area, I absolutely, 100% believe that it's a bubble with a limited shelf life. Businesses in Waco tend to fail quickly for one reason or another.

I'm sure some of you are developers or know developers. And here's what I've learned over the years about developers. They'll remodel/build something and just wait...for years on end. That thread about the Luxe is a perfect example. Waco is not a "build it and they'll come" town, though many people over the years have tried this.

This might come off as negative, but my arguments are made based on what I've seen over the years in Waco. If you're expecting Magnolia to kick-start a long-term upward trend, I'd disagree. BUT, I hope for the best for Waco.

If there is a city that's due, hell OVERLY DUE, for some good karma, it's Waco. I feel bad for people that grew up in Waco, honestly. Outside of Magnolia, it's been a long time since anything positive has been attached to the city. People still mention Koresh and that wasn't even in Waco. So, I have a reserved (not negative) opinion about all this, yet I sincerely wish the city well.

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Try 30 to 40 years late. Some of us tried to get on the Tech train in the 80's only to be told, wasn't going to happen but that was then and this is now.

Not going to be here when it all comes together but will enjoy the ride as the younger generations take the reins and move forward.

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Exactly. Knowing Waco's history, I think I'm within my rights to be apprehensive. If there's a sliver of light, it's that Texas is just booming and the glut of people along the I-35 corridor will mitigate some of the advantages of the larger cities in years to come.

You make some valid points.

Seeing positive activity in downtown Waco is a good thing; my hope is that it will be slow, deliberate, and well thought out. I've been here off and on since 1970. There are more positive signs now than ever IMO.

It's important to remember that owning your own small business is fraught with peril. The prime example is the food business. In talking with folks who want to open a place of their own, I all too often hear how they can't wait to get the doors open, only to talk to them six months later when they'll confide they had no idea how much work it was going to be.

One reason family owned restaurants close is the Mom and Dad who originally started the place, worked 70 hours a week running it, decide after 30 or 40 years they're ready to retire. Lots of times their kids have no interest in repeating that heavy load. The day to day tedium of hassling with your produce vendor over lousy lettuce and tomatoes, or realizing most kids coming to apply for work can't make change for a twenty gets old pretty fast.

I'm pretty confident the Magnolia "bubble" will be here for quite a while. How well the other plans of mice and men succeed is a story still to be told.

Having said that, do yourself a favor and stop in at Balcones Distillery for a sampling, or sit outside in the shade at The Backyard while others stand in the unrelenting heat at Magnolia. You won't be sorry.

It could be a bubble. But honestly I think the Magnolia part is overstated. Magnolia has done alot. However I think it was a stimulant to what was already going to happen. Texas is booming in population and most of it is on the 35 corridor between DFW and SA. It always was just a matter of time before a commercial development boom hit the Waco part of 35. It had spread up to Bell County from Austin already and now is creeping into McLennan. Magnolia has done alot for the down town area. But all this development is not occurring because of the 5K tourist a week that come to Waco. That ends up equaling annually the number of tourist we had coming for home football games annually the last few years of the Briles era. So if there is a Magnolia bubble, it may not be as big as folks think. I could be wrong however.

PartyBear said:

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It could be a bubble. But honestly I think the Magnolia part is overstated. Magnolia has done alot. However I think it was a stimulant to what was already going to happen. Texas is booming in population and most of it is on the 35 corridor between DFW and SA. It always was just a matter of time before a commercial development boom hit the Waco part of 35. It had spread up to Bell County from Austin already and now is creeping into McLennan. Magnolia has done alot for the down town area. But all this development is not occurring because of the 5K tourist a week that come to Waco. That ends up equaling annually the number of tourist we had coming for home football games annually the last few years of the Briles era. So if there is a Magnolia bubble, it may not be as big as folks think. I could be wrong however.

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30K-35K per week is coming to visit Magnolia

PartyBear said:

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It could be a bubble. But honestly I think the Magnolia part is overstated. Magnolia has done alot. However I think it was a stimulant to what was already going to happen. Texas is booming in population and most of it is on the 35 corridor between DFW and SA. It always was just a matter of time before a commercial development boom hit the Waco part of 35. It had spread up to Bell County from Austin already and now is creeping into McLennan. Magnolia has done alot for the down town area. But all this development is not occurring because of the 5K tourist a week that come to Waco. That ends up equaling annually the number of tourist we had coming for home football games annually the last few years of the Briles era. So if there is a Magnolia bubble, it may not be as big as folks think. I could be wrong however.

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Well, Magnolia is almost 30k/week right now and has been for 2+ years.

PartyBear said:

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It could be a bubble. But honestly I think the Magnolia part is overstated. Magnolia has done alot. However I think it was a stimulant to what was already going to happen. Texas is booming in population and most of it is on the 35 corridor between DFW and SA. It always was just a matter of time before a commercial development boom hit the Waco part of 35. It had spread up to Bell County from Austin already and now is creeping into McLennan. Magnolia has done alot for the down town area. But all this development is not occurring because of the 5K tourist a week that come to Waco. That ends up equaling annually the number of tourist we had coming for home football games annually the last few years of the Briles era. So if there is a Magnolia bubble, it may not be as big as folks think. I could be wrong however.

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It's like 2.5 million visitors per year now...

Well that is definetly a bubble. I do not see anything to sustain that level long term. It isnt like a Disney resort that has millions of new customers and fans literally born every day to feed it now and on into the future. But I dont think it is the end of the world for Waco when it ends.

PartyBear said:

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Well that is definetly a bubble. I do not see anything to sustain that level long term. It isnt like a Disney resort that has millions of new customers and fans literally born every day to feed it now and on into the future. But I dont think it is the end of the world for Waco when it ends.

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And they're about to start their own network, which will also have stars of other shows in and around the area and elsewhere. The network may actually increase the factor several-fold.

trey3216 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Well that is definetly a bubble. I do not see anything to sustain that level long term. It isnt like a Disney resort that has millions of new customers and fans literally born every day to feed it now and on into the future. But I dont think it is the end of the world for Waco when it ends.

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And they're about to start their own network, which will also have stars of other shows in and around the area and elsewhere. The network may actually increase the factor several-fold.

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Yep... Realistically I say Chip and Joanna have another 10-15 years of big time marketability(at the very least). Especially with the rumors their network will replace DIY Channel and therefore will be included in most cable/sat packages around the country.

PartyBear said:

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It could be a bubble. But honestly I think the Magnolia part is overstated. Magnolia has done alot. However I think it was a stimulant to what was already going to happen. Texas is booming in population and most of it is on the 35 corridor between DFW and SA. It always was just a matter of time before a commercial development boom hit the Waco part of 35. It had spread up to Bell County from Austin already and now is creeping into McLennan. Magnolia has done alot for the down town area. But all this development is not occurring because of the 5K tourist a week that come to Waco. That ends up equaling annually the number of tourist we had coming for home football games annually the last few years of the Briles era. So if there is a Magnolia bubble, it may not be as big as folks think. I could be wrong however.

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You are wrong. It is much more than 5K a week. 6 or 7 TIMES more per week.

To me the best example of how much the Magnolia effect has had i with the Live Oak School downtown.

They went from having one or two buildings and a parking lot or two. Due to people parking in their lots they hired parking attendants, charge parking and have been able to expand to something like 6 buildings and from what I was told once they make their operating budget for the entire year in one or two months which meant money for expansion, raises, etc.

That is a direct result of the Silos. No Silos and Live Oak is just another small private school barely getting by.

First Baptist parking lots are used by Silo visitors. They are charged $10 per day. Proceeds go to church

Don't know about Live Oak

I own multiple properties in Downtown Waco that are Short Term Rentals and track this closely. I also do real estate finance and am familiar with all the major metros in Texas. Similar to some other posters, I grew up in Austin and have watched the growth here. Austin in the 80's is showing some similarities to Waco today. Just trade State Government/UT/Hippies with Baylor/Magnolia/Entrepreneurs.

I have been wrong before and will be wrong again, but if some Downtown Office Buildings are constructed and occupied with good lower end white collar jobs, the city will take off. This is completely separate from the tourism. The issue is that office development is very cart and horse. If you don't have pre-leases signed, it is very difficult/risky to develop speculative office.

However we have seen many companies looking to move to Austin thinking it is affordable and balk at the cost of real estate and high cost of living. Many of these end up in San Antonio. Cheaper work force and housing.

Waco in my mind will become a great secondary option in Texas for companies as Austin/DFW continue to become more expensive. It gives Baylor grads a chance to stay in Waco after college as well. This has been a huge boon for Austin with UT Grads.

Austin started something called Opportunity Austin. Raised money from local businesses for economic development completely separate from the Chamber of Commerce. Local business people went to recruit companies nationally and internationally with this raised money. This model could be copied in Waco successfully with buy in from local government. There has already been willingness to support growth through Downtown TIF funds on the real estate side. Could do something similarly with economic incentives.

ProTexana said:

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I own multiple properties in Downtown Waco that are Short Term Rentals and track this closely. I also do real estate finance and am familiar with all the major metros in Texas. Similar to some other posters, I grew up in Austin and have watched the growth here. Austin in the 80's is showing some similarities to Waco today. Just trade State Government/UT/Hippies with Baylor/Magnolia/Entrepreneurs.

I have been wrong before and will be wrong again, but if some Downtown Office Buildings are constructed and occupied with good lower end white collar jobs, the city will take off. This is completely separate from the tourism. The issue is that office development is very cart and horse. If you don't have pre-leases signed, it is very difficult/risky to develop speculative office.

However we have seen many companies looking to move to Austin thinking it is affordable and balk at the cost of real estate and high cost of living. Many of these end up in San Antonio. Cheaper work force and housing.

Waco in my mind will become a great secondary option in Texas for companies as Austin/DFW continue to become more expensive. It gives Baylor grads a chance to stay in Waco after college as well. This has been a huge boon for Austin with UT Grads.

Austin started something called Opportunity Austin. Raised money from local businesses for economic development completely separate from the Chamber of Commerce. Local business people went to recruit companies nationally and internationally with this raised money. This model could be copied in Waco successfully with buy in from local government. There has already been willingness to support growth through Downtown TIF funds on the real estate side. Could do something similarly with economic incentives.

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Do you think they are close to starting on the Heritage Square project?

I was hopeful for that project during the RFP phase but haven't heard much solid in quite a while on what direction it is going.

What are some solutions to keep the younger talent pool in Waco?

I can't tell you how many times I've heard college kids complain about how there's nothing to do in Waco.

Is this true? Is this just perception rather than reality? If true what solutions? If not true, how does the city change that perception?

How beneficial would higher paying jobs be to this issue?

UBBY said:

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What are some solutions to keep the younger talent pool in Waco?

I can't tell you how many times I've heard college kids complain about how there's nothing to do in Waco.

Is this true? Is this just perception rather than reality? If true what solutions? If not true, how does the city change that perception?

How beneficial would higher paying jobs be to this issue?

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The problem with Waco is not starting here, it is staying here. You can always find something to start with but as you progress up the career ladder you get to a point where you cannot make a lateral or upward move. So if the business you work for is sold or there is a reorganization, you have to look for options outside of Waco in order to maintain your lifestyle.

Waco is 1000x better with entertainment options for younger people than it was even 10 years ago. As the waterfront development continues and more things like TopGolf show up, it gets easier. However there are always going to be types that would rather be in Dallas/Houston/Austin and want more than what Waco offers.

My opinion is that there will need to be companies coming into Waco that kids are proud to work for after graduation. That would help remove the stigma of staying in Waco after graduation (at least in the business school). The BRIC, Magnolia, and the Baylor Entrepreneur program can all assist with this. But its probably going to take some established companies moving into town as well.

Pay probably isn't as important right out of school especially with the lower cost of living in Waco. It definitely gets more important after a few years in the workforce though.

I could be wrong on all of the above though!