JohnProctor said:

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bear2be2 said:

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I said this at the beginning of the season and I still feel this way now: Matthew Mayer has the best and most complete offensive skill set of any Baylor player since Vinnie Johnson. He doesn't have as high a floor as some of Baylor's other top talents in recent years, but he has a highest ceiling of the Drew era IMO. If he reaches his full potential, he'll not only make an NBA roster, he'll be a star.

6-9 guys who move as fluidly as he does and can handle, pass and shoot the ball the way he can are in short supply. And while his insane self-confidence may frustrate people now, it will be a massive asset in the near future. This guy will be an assassin who knows he's an assassin -- and there will be nothing defenses can do to stop him from scoring.

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Boy I was at the game tonight and the kid was a disaster. A clear liability tonight (it's just one game). I still like him but you might want to tap the brakes on highest ceiling of Drew Era talk. I'm not sure if he is not even in the Freshman top 10 of the Drew era and he is going to have to get a lot better before he sniffs the NBA.

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I'm going to guess based on this post that you left the game early. Because if you had stayed the entire game, you'd have seen the skill set that makes me feel the way I do about Mayer. There aren't many guys his size who can effortlessly and fearlessly lead a fast break, drive from the 3-point line to the rim in two dribbles and finish strong in traffic or hit a quick-release 3 off the bounce with apparent ease.

Is he a finished product? Heck no. Is he frustrating to watch at times? Heck yes. But the dude's offensive skill set is E-N-O-R-M-O-U-S. Mayer isn't a great player yet. In fact, he can be a liability at times, which I why I referenced his floor in the post you quoted. But not since Taurean Prince have I watched a young Baylor player and been so confident despite struggles that he was going to be a star when the light bulb finally came on. And being two inches taller and just as athletic, I think Mayer has an opportunity to be an even bigger matchup problem than Prince was.

possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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Of course the scoring is not there, but when he moves (especially without the ball) he reminds me of Pete Maravich.

ETBU said:

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possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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Of course the scoring is not there, but when he moves (especially without the ball) he reminds me of Pete Maravich.

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Maravich seldom moved "without the ball", but yeah, he had long hair.

possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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I didn't compare Mayer to Vinnie Johnson. I said he's Baylor's most talented offensive player since Vinnie. There's a massive difference.

And talent is just the tool kit you're starting with. It takes a lot more to build the house.

But if Mayer ever puts it all together and is able to achieve his enormous potential, he'll be an unguardable offensive player. He's a physical freak with elite offensive skills. He just needs the game to slow down for him a little and to learn what he can and cannot get away with against other elite athletes.

contrario said:

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Does Mayer remind anyone of a young Taurean Prince? All the confidence in the world with some good athleticism, but just a little out of control at times?

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Not sure why, but he actually reminds me of Tom Friedman, if I have my players name right. Had a lot of confidence with fire in his play, and took on the Aggie football team in a fight on court in College Station.

Tom was about 6'4""?

bear2be2 said:

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possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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I didn't compare Mayer to Vinnie Johnson. I said he's Baylor's most talented offensive player since Vinnie. There's a massive difference.

And talent is just the tool kit you're starting with. It takes a lot more to build the house.

But if Mayer ever puts it all together and is able to achieve his enormous potential, he'll be an unguardable offensive player. He's a physical freak with elite offensive skills. He just needs the game to slow down for him a little and to learn what he can and cannot get away with against other elite athletes.

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He isn't really a physical freak. That's an exaggeration

I'm sure everyone noticed his haircut. I tried to post before the game but had battery issues with my phone.

bear2be2 said:

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bularry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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I didn't compare Mayer to Vinnie Johnson. I said he's Baylor's most talented offensive player since Vinnie. There's a massive difference.

And talent is just the tool kit you're starting with. It takes a lot more to build the house.

But if Mayer ever puts it all together and is able to achieve his enormous potential, he'll be an unguardable offensive player. He's a physical freak with elite offensive skills. He just needs the game to slow down for him a little and to learn what he can and cannot get away with against other elite athletes.

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He isn't really a physical freak. That's an exaggeration

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Most 6-foot-9 guys don't move the way Matthew Mayer does. He is an explosive athlete with guard coordination in a power forward's body.

His game needs some refining for sure, but he has all the tools.

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6'9" guys with more explosion than him are all over the G league

bularry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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bularry said:

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bear2be2 said:

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possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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I didn't compare Mayer to Vinnie Johnson. I said he's Baylor's most talented offensive player since Vinnie. There's a massive difference.

And talent is just the tool kit you're starting with. It takes a lot more to build the house.

But if Mayer ever puts it all together and is able to achieve his enormous potential, he'll be an unguardable offensive player. He's a physical freak with elite offensive skills. He just needs the game to slow down for him a little and to learn what he can and cannot get away with against other elite athletes.

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He isn't really a physical freak. That's an exaggeration

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Most 6-foot-9 guys don't move the way Matthew Mayer does. He is an explosive athlete with guard coordination in a power forward's body.

His game needs some refining for sure, but he has all the tools.

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6'9" guys with more explosion than him are all over the G league

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Well, how much G League you seen? He has talent but his coaches cannot handle him. Those 4 stars are a big deal. He needs a good *****ing like I posted weeks ago.

I know I will get flamed for this, but I am really burned out on this kid. I do not in anyway dispute the assessments of his talent potential, but to me he's the hunting dog you can't keep from jumping rabbit trails. Last night he almost single-handedly killed the 11 point lead we built up in the second half against OU, and when the ball is passed to him it's like going into a black hole. One way or another, he's going to put his head down, and either take the shot himself, or get up in the air with no idea of where he's going to go with the ball. I don't understand why Coach Drew can't put the fear of God in him. A couple of weeks ago on one of the game telecasts, the announcers said that the other players had been brutal to him in practice, to the point that he became angry, but in that game he played his most disciplined ball of the season, with a team mentality. I just don't see how he's getting significant minutes, when it appears he obviously has not gotten the message.

I would love nothing better than to see him catch a clue, and accept the disciplined play I believe it's required for him to reach his full potential, because I do agree with everyone else that he can be a tremendous impact on this team, and seasons to come.

Saddle Up! said:

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I would love nothing better than to see him catch a clue, and accept the disciplined play I believe it's required for him to reach his full potential, because I do agree with everyone else that he can be a tremendous impact on this team, and seasons to come.

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That's sort of why I made the point I did. The shots he took last night weren't great decisions. He had a matchup on his defender, had time, and he took a low percentage shot.

We can debate the youth, maturity, experience all day, I get it, he's young.
My point was with his frame, he isn't using his length to his advantage. When he gets a good jump stop with the ball, he doesn't have to put much effort into going up with a fairly uncontested shot. I'd like to see him take a 1 or 2 dribble move to the basket and then go up for a soft jumper. It would kill zone defenses.

I'm not looking at this from an all or nothing perspective, my point is there is a go to move for a guy with his frame on the perimeter. Would be interesting to see how good he is at keeping his balance once he's put the ball on the floor. When he gets a step on his defender, he almost has to be fouled to keep him from getting to the basket. He was hacked a few times unmercifully, too.

When Mayer catches the ball beyond the arc and is open, I get really excited because I have a lot of faith in his ability to knock down open looks.

However, my heart goes into my throat when I see him go rogue and start trying to run point. You can see it coming, too - he starts going between the legs, spinning around.. you just know an ill-advised fade away or bad turnover is coming. You can smell it from a mile away.

He'll be good though - just needs to cut that crap out.

Drew needs to have a shorter leash on Mayer. He nearly cost BU the game in the second half.

Here's a hot sports opinion. He's already better IMO than Jake Lindsey..yeah Jake 'im too afraid to shoot' Lindsey..

Yes..he had 2 bad possessions in a row..but he had 2 huge buckets and a crucial 3 to help us win that game

My problem with him is defense..Good coaches will go after him and isolate him..like we did against Brady Nemek in Norman..that guy is horrible defensively.

BaylorOkie said:

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He's going to be a big time player. He's learning his limitations. He has to learn them because he didn't have them when he was dominating high school players. It's different now. And this is what you have to be patient about with a player like this. I think it'll be worth it.

I think maybe a few on this thread sold all their stock portfolio on Christmas Eve.

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I agree completely. Mayer's a frustrating player with a low floor that has to be managed by the coaching staff. But his ceiling will make all of the heartburn worth it in the end. Folks are just going to have to be patient and recognize that he's a wild horse being broken right now. But you've got to keep your eye on the prize because he's got Triple Crown talent.

Yep.

Stefano DiMera said:

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Here's a hot sports opinion. He's already better IMO than Jake Lindsey..yeah Jake 'im too afraid to shoot' Lindsey..

Yes..h

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Cats outta the bag now...

You ain't NEVER getting drafted into the NBA and you'll be lucky to play the Bangladesh Night League.

I don't know what it is about him, but the floppy haircut on the skinny white guy makes me think of Gordon Hayward while at Butler. Hopefully Mayer does the same as Hayward and finds the weightroom and a good barber.

He's a good test for the staff. He has the talent but has never had anyone coaching him who could control him.

xiledinok said:

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He's a good test for the staff. He has the talent but has never had anyone coaching him who could control him.

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Bingo.

JohnProctor said:

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Boy I was at the game tonight and the kid was a disaster. A clear liability tonight (it's just one game). I still like him but you might want to tap the brakes on highest ceiling of Drew Era talk. I'm not sure if he is not even in the Freshman top 10 of the Drew era and he is going to have to get a lot better before he sniffs the NBA.

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Strongly disagree

possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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The closest player I've ever seen to him is none of those. However, it is Rex Chapman from Owensboro, KY and played 1 or 2 seasons at UK. He was probably one of the original players to leave college early for the NBA. Check him out on you tube or something and you will see the same shot, almost the same jumping capablity cuz Rex could jump like Michael Jordan (he could touch the top of the backboard w/o the ball). Too bad his career ended like it did with so many injuries which got him hooked on Oxycontin, but eventually he overcame it. Very cool dude and one of my favorite players in general of all time. Guess it was a BROMANCE.

wuzzybear said:

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possible12 said:

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So, Bird, Barry, Laettner, and Vinnie....wow

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The closest player I've ever seen to him is none of those. However, it is Rex Chapman from Owensboro, KY and played 1 or 2 seasons at UK. He was probably one of the original players to leave college early for the NBA. Check him out on you tube or something and you will see the same shot, almost the same jumping capablity cuz Rex could jump like Michael Jordan (he could touch the top of the backboard w/o the ball). Too bad his career ended like it did with so many injuries which got him hooked on Oxycontin, but eventually he overcame it. Very cool dude and one of my favorite players in general of all time. Guess it was a BROMANCE.

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Rex Chapman was only 6-4 and was a true combo guard. I don't really see that one, though it would be awesome if Matthew could match his college/pro success.

The debate still rages. I am in the best player in Men's College Basketball next year camp. "You can't teach what Mayer has; athleticism and court vision."

BUCANDOIT82 said:

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You can't coach what Mayer has, which is court vision and athleticism.

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The coaches deserve the great for his amazing improvement over the past 2 years.