What's It Gonna Take to Defeat The Zags

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LIB,MR BEARS
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Frequent substitutions to keep fresh legs on D

Deny Timme the ball by fronting and crazy good on-ball D

Great spacing so their help is a step late

Solid screens allowing a driving lane on blow-bys

and did I say S P A C I N G
RegentCoverup
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dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison
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EvilTroyAndAbed
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison


That would make him a really good coach for Adam to excel so much in college and not do well away from his tutelage.

It's not like we have NBA superstars at Baylor. We have some contributors but nobody dominant.
RegentCoverup
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison


That would make him a really good coach for Adam to excel so much in college and not do well away from his tutelage.

It's not like we have NBA superstars at Baylor. We have some contributors but nobody dominant.
So by your first statement, you're essentially saying that a coach whose players aren't highly drafted but have lengthy NBA careers is an even better coach, correct?

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bubbadog
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison


That would make him a really good coach for Adam to excel so much in college and not do well away from his tutelage.

It's not like we have NBA superstars at Baylor. We have some contributors but nobody dominant.
So by your first statement, you're essentially saying that a coach whose players aren't highly drafted but have lengthy NBA careers is an even better coach, correct?

I think he's saying that it's more of a tribute to Few's coaching that Morrison was such a great collegiate player despite lacking the talent to succeed in the NBA. It's not Few's fault that an NBA team misjudged Morrison so badly.

I do agree with your analysis of what it will take to win. We can't get our frontline in foul trouble, and we can't let our defensive switches create too many mismatches and easy baskets for them.

I also think we have some advantages with the speed and defensive prowess of our guards. They just haven't faced anybody in a while who can play disruptive D like that.
RegentCoverup
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bubbadog said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

EvilTroyAndAbed said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison


That would make him a really good coach for Adam to excel so much in college and not do well away from his tutelage.

It's not like we have NBA superstars at Baylor. We have some contributors but nobody dominant.
So by your first statement, you're essentially saying that a coach whose players aren't highly drafted but have lengthy NBA careers is an even better coach, correct?

I think he's saying that it's more of a tribute to Few's coaching that Morrison was such a great collegiate player despite lacking the talent to succeed in the NBA. It's not Few's fault that an NBA team misjudged Morrison so badly.

I do agree with your analysis of what it will take to win. We can't get our frontline in foul trouble, and we can't let our defensive switches create too many mismatches and easy baskets for them.

I also think we have some advantages with the speed and defensive prowess of our guards. They just haven't faced anybody in a while who can play disruptive D like that.

I'm aware of what he's saying and Few is a good coach. Just saying that analysis says that by that same measure a coach whose players overachieve their draft spot deserves even MORE credit.

On the game analysis, I think they'll go right at out Front Line and we'll need to keep Vital, Tsatchoua and Thamba out of foul trouble to even have a chance. They have size that we don't have, but as you mention, we have athleticism and quickness.

Our game plan looks fairly obvious to me and that's concerning. I just hope we'll adjust our defense enough to get some stops. If we do that, it's a matter of how well we shoot.

We've got a hell of a chance, that's for sure.

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Mitch Blood Green
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I think we have to score more points than them. (And keep pressure on Timme) Need solid center play. Get him in foul trouble.
BUGWBBear
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Drew has had months to work up a scheme. I hope he's got one tougher than we used against Houston.
Timbear
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Need to shoot over 40% from 3 pt land.
BUCANDOIT82
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To win we need to avoid a Cocid19 pause. Other than that the only question is do we win by enough for the Walk-ons to play!

We can stay in front of them, they can't stay in front of us. Ask Houston, ask Arkansas, ask Villanova, ask Wisconsin.
historian
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BUCANDOIT82 said:

To win we need to avoid a Cocid19 pause. Other than that the only question is do we win by enough for the Walk-ons to play!?

We can stay in front of them, they can't stay in front of us. Ask Houston, ask Arkansas, ask Villanova, ask Wisconsin.
It would be great if Patterson could score a bucket or two. It would be even better if Moffat had at least one bucket. I really don't see that happening. Cryer, Turner, & Loveday probably will not play either. They'll get their chance next year and maybe in a year or two we will be back at the Final Four.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
bubbadog
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We can score in a hurry, especially when we're forcing turnovers, but I suspect we'll try to get Gonzaga out of their rhythm and tempo. They like to score in the 90s. I bet we try to keep them in the low to mid-70s.

They want to get the ball in to Timme. So one way we can try to reduce the frequency of that is to pressure their guards into turnovers. We did it to Villanova. We did it to Houston. Gonzaga hasn't seen the kind of defensive intensity that our guards can bring.
GruntTuff
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To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.
SIC EM 94
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GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.


Amen...this is the key!
RegentCoverup
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

dribble penetration aimed at Timme. He is not a good defender and his side to side movement is terrible. Slip passes after our guards penetrate to a cutting help player will work well. Timme drew some lucky charges last time but he comes out unbalanced, so getting around him is fairly easy.


Defense will be difficult. Got to keep Kispert and Suggs from getting easy buckets. If we can do that, we will be in this game and in control, but it's a hard task. Main thing is not to give up easy buckets in the paint or really high percentage shots.

I wouldn't vary our plan too much, we have them with athleticism and speed, need Vital to play a solid first half and control fouls.

A basketball scholar on this site tried to say Mark Few was the best coach in the game. But that would mean explaining one of the worst draft busts since Stacy King. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Morrison


That would make him a really good coach for Adam to excel so much in college and not do well away from his tutelage.

It's not like we have NBA superstars at Baylor. We have some contributors but nobody dominant.

Are we even sure you're a Baylor fan? You seem to hate everything about Baylor.

Average NBA career is a little over 4 years. That means a lot of players play between 2 and 6 years. In light of the successive scandals, having two players with 14 year NBA careers(Brian Skinner, David Wesley) is damned impressive. Stars? Maybe not. But good enough to outlast a new crop of draftees every year for 14 seasons. 14 years of NBA salary seems an accomplishment to me.

And Adam Morrison was probably the biggest flop of that decade.
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Ewalker80
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I predict the game is close the whole way and comes down to late free throws. If we can knock down some clutch late free throws we win with our overall superior guard play late. Sic'em.
Jayman1963
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GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.
Agreed - I was thinking the same thing. Do we know who the Ref crew will be tonight?
CST Bear
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Guards, Bench and Defense.

Our three hallmarks. We're superior in each category. If those three elements swing in our favor, it's night night Zags.
j pate
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I agree it is likely to be a close game. And, that certainly is what most of the experts are saying.

Since Gonzaga just played a very close and physical game that went into overtime they probably will come in a little tired. (Wish it had of been double overtime!) I think we should take advantage of our deeper bench to play tough defense from the start and wear them down. Penetrate the lanes to open up the 3s and get fouls.If successful, towards the end of the game we will be fresher and if any of their stars are in foul trouble, they will have to back off. Our guys will hopefully be able to take control in the final few minutes for the win.
bear2be2
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SIC EM 94 said:

GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.


Amen...this is the key!

That's a key. The key is executing at a level high enough to make officiating matter.

You guys spend way too much time thinking/complaining about officiating.
BellCountyBear
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GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.
This. I fear the refs will feel the need to help keep Gonzaga's perfect season intact.
Russell Gym
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Fouls will be huge, complaints or not. Mitchell to the bench early or fouling out would be huge.
Porteroso
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Fouls will definitely be huge. Mitchell will have his hands full, trying to guard Suggs without fouling, but I take Mitchell in that match up. I think we have to get Timme in foul trouble in the first half. That has to be a part of our plan.

On offense, we can hang with anyone if at least 2 shooters are on. If we get 3 or 4 shooters hitti g their open looks, I think we pull away. If everybody is cold, I don't see how we win.
Jorkel
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bear2be2 said:

SIC EM 94 said:

GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.


Amen...this is the key!

That's a key. The key is executing at a level high enough to make officiating matter.

You guys spend way too much time thinking/complaining about officiating.


Imagine if I posted every time Baylor players actually fouled and it didn't get called. People actually believe that all refs are out to get us and only us.
GruntTuff
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My point was not that the officiating will be one sided. It's that a very closely called game favors Gonzaga. A loosely called/let them play called game favors Baylor due to the intensity and physicality of the way we play defense.
bear2be2
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Russell Gym said:

Fouls will be huge, complaints or not. Mitchell to the bench early or fouling out would be huge.

Fouls are huge in every game. You adjust to the way the game is being officiated and play.

The team that wins this one will be the team that hits more shots. That should be our focus, not preemptive *****ing about perceived one-sided officiating.
Porteroso
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Fortunately I bet nobody on the team reads these forums. They probably did before KU in Lawrence and learned their lesson. I can't think of a better way to lose a game, than follow the advice this board gives.
bear2be2
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GruntTuff said:

My point was not that the officiating will be one sided. It's that a very closely called game favors Gonzaga. A loosely called/let them play called game favors Baylor due to the intensity and physicality of the way we play defense.

I think your point was a fair one. It's once people attach a bias motive that I roll my eyes hard.
Russell Gym
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bear2be2 said:

Russell Gym said:

Fouls will be huge, complaints or not. Mitchell to the bench early or fouling out would be huge.

Fouls are huge in every game. You adjust to the way the game is being officiated and play.

The team that wins this one will be the team that hits more shots. That should be our focus, not preemptive *****ing about perceived one-sided officiating.

Whoa. I didn't complain about the officiating, but I agree with GruntTuff that a tightly called game favors our opponent and a let-em-play game favors us.
Oldbear83
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Jayman1963 said:

GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.
Agreed - I was thinking the same thing. Do we know who the Ref crew will be tonight?
Eleven officials were selected to work the Final Four games:

Pat Adams, Mobile, Alabama
Jeff Anderson, West Henrietta, New York
Bo Boroski, Indianapolis, Indiana
James Breeding, Louisville, Kentucky
Ron Groover, Newnan, Georgia
Keith Kimble, Arlington, Texas
Randy McCall, Highlands Ranch, Colorado
Gerry Pollard, Wentzville, Missouri
Chris Rastatter, Tucson, Arizona
Larry Scirotto, Dallas, Texas
Doug Sirmons, Virginia Beach, Virginia

Officials who worked the semi-final games are generally not going to work the Final.

Anderson, Breeding and Groover worked the Gonzaga-UCLA game and are unlikely to work the Championship game if the tradition holds.

Rastatter, Adams and Sirmons worked the Baylor-Houston game and also are unlikely to work the Championship game if the tradition holds.

Pollard and Scirotto are working their first Final Four games, and so are likely slated as alternates.

That leaves the following officials probable to work tonight's game:


  • Bo Boroski, Indianapolis, Indiana

[url=https://www.wishtv.com/news/indianapolis-resident-gets-final-four-officiating-call/][/url]https://www.wishtv.com/news/indianapolis-resident-gets-final-four-officiating-call/


  • Keith Kimble, Arlington, Texas

[url=https://www.facebook.com/fortworthref/][/url]https://www.facebook.com/fortworthref/



  • Randy McCall, Highlands Ranch, Colorado

[url=https://www.denverpost.com/2014/09/19/basketball-randy-mccall-receives-naismith-award-for-college-basketball-officiating/][/url]https://www.denverpost.com/2014/09/19/basketball-randy-mccall-receives-naismith-award-for-college-basketball-officiating/

If I read it right, all three have done at least three Final Fours before now. Lots of experience and cred
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Jayman1963
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Oldbear83 said:

Jayman1963 said:

GruntTuff said:

To me, it's up to the referees. If they call fouls every time Mitchell gets within six inches of the guy he's guarding, we're going to struggle. If the refs let the game be played with physicality and not call touch fouls, our defense will be something Gonzaga hasn't seen.

I really think the way the game is officiated will have a huge impact on the outcome. Touch fouls...tough on Baylor. Let them play...good for us.
Agreed - I was thinking the same thing. Do we know who the Ref crew will be tonight?
Eleven officials were selected to work the Final Four games:

Pat Adams, Mobile, Alabama
Jeff Anderson, West Henrietta, New York
Bo Boroski, Indianapolis, Indiana
James Breeding, Louisville, Kentucky
Ron Groover, Newnan, Georgia
Keith Kimble, Arlington, Texas
Randy McCall, Highlands Ranch, Colorado
Gerry Pollard, Wentzville, Missouri
Chris Rastatter, Tucson, Arizona
Larry Scirotto, Dallas, Texas
Doug Sirmons, Virginia Beach, Virginia

Officials who worked the semi-final games are generally not going to work the Final.

Anderson, Breeding and Groover worked the Gonzaga-UCLA game and are unlikely to work the Championship game if the tradition holds.

Rastatter, Adams and Sirmons worked the Baylor-Houston game and also are unlikely to work the Championship game if the tradition holds.

Pollard and Scirotto are working their first Final Four games, and so are likely slated as alternates.

That leaves the following officials probable to work tonight's game:


  • Bo Boroski, Indianapolis, Indiana

[url=https://www.wishtv.com/news/indianapolis-resident-gets-final-four-officiating-call/][/url]https://www.wishtv.com/news/indianapolis-resident-gets-final-four-officiating-call/


  • Keith Kimble, Arlington, Texas

[url=https://www.facebook.com/fortworthref/][/url]https://www.facebook.com/fortworthref/



  • Randy McCall, Highlands Ranch, Colorado

[url=https://www.denverpost.com/2014/09/19/basketball-randy-mccall-receives-naismith-award-for-college-basketball-officiating/][/url]https://www.denverpost.com/2014/09/19/basketball-randy-mccall-receives-naismith-award-for-college-basketball-officiating/

If I read it right, all three have done at least three Final Fours before now. Lots of experience and cred
Thanks Ob83!
bear2be2
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Russell Gym said:

bear2be2 said:

Russell Gym said:

Fouls will be huge, complaints or not. Mitchell to the bench early or fouling out would be huge.

Fouls are huge in every game. You adjust to the way the game is being officiated and play.

The team that wins this one will be the team that hits more shots. That should be our focus, not preemptive *****ing about perceived one-sided officiating.

Whoa. I didn't complain about the officiating, but I agree with GruntTuff that a tightly called game favors our opponent and a let-em-play game favors us.
Sorry, I wasn't talking so much about you in the second paragraph as those convinced some nonexistent anti-Baylor ref bias will play any role whatsoever in the outcome of tonight's game.
BUbackerinET
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Great info - let's hope they are consistent, that's all I ask for - consistency.
BUbackerinET
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To beat them, IMO:

Contain Timme - keep him under 16 points, win the rebounding battle, hit the 3s and foul shots, and replicate the defensive intensity and execution, and I like our chances.
Ewalker80
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After thinking about it some more, I think our #1 task on defense will be keeping Kispert from getting open threes, particularly in transition. He has a ton of games shooting over 50% and we just can't keep up with that. He is absolutely deadly in transition and you always have to find him as job #1.

We can live with Timme making some shots over us if we pressure the ball hard to limit touches, but you can only be so efficient in the post if we don't give him layups and do some timely doubling to keep him uncomfortable. Kispert came back to raise his draft status and HE IS GOING TO BE GEARED UP TO TAKE SOME SHOTS, whether completely open or not. If we can get him to miss some early I think they could start to force things and get frustrated. I don't think the other guards are really going to be coming in wanting to shoot a bunch of threes unless fairly open.
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