The first reason why is that our second string has more talent than any team with the possible exception of Texas. We have 2 McDonalds All Americans (Queen & Oliver), one three time Louisiana player of the year (Moon), one Ariz. player of the year (Bickel) and 2 Texas All Staters (Trinity & Erin). All three of our guards stack up well with any three guards in the conference. Moon is All Conference material, Triniy can hold her own against most any shooting guard when you include her defensive ability and Oliver is becoming a very skilled point guard. Bickel would average over ten points a game if she started. She is great on the boards either as a 3 or a 4. Queen is already dominant on the boards and her offensive skills are improving daily. Erin is a good situational player. If Mulkey spent her time developing game plans for these six players they would win the conference this year. We have never had such a skilled bench.
Ok, I"ll say it - Our 2nd String would most likely win the Big 12 this year
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Last: 4 yr ago by GoldenBear
I don't always agree with your thoughts, but I always love your optimism!
We'll never know, but I think he may be right - at least top 3...
IMO, our depth is one of the reasons we have the ability to repeat, which I think we may just accomplish
IMO, our depth is one of the reasons we have the ability to repeat, which I think we may just accomplish
I was thinking the same thing as I watched our bench crush the other teams the past few games.
Our bench is what makes this team so special.
Our bench is what makes this team so special.
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Mulder said:
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
You went away for several years. Is it possible to do the same again, or have you been banned on the UT boards? And how are Coach G and Cokie "The Law" Reed doing?
Also, what starter on Baylor's team averages 30 minutes or more per game? I will answer it for you: none. Juicy averages the most at 28 minutes.
Yep, I remember you. You are a fraud.
As for the original post on this thread, could our bench compete with the other nine schools for the Big 12 title? Yes for sure. Could they compete against our starters for it? No way. I was not sure which of the two you were suggesting.
BUbackerinET said:
We'll never know, but I think he may be right - at least top 3...
IMO, our depth is one of the reasons we have the ability to repeat, which I think we may just accomplish
I agree.
KM almost looked embarrassed when she shook hands with Mike Carey after the last game. Her bench had outplayed his starters.
Texas and Oklahoma need to do something about their WBB programs. It has gotten pathetic. Baylor shouldn't have to be carrying the full weight of Big XII WBB. We can, but we shouldn't have to be.
You do realize that is exactly what we are doing this year...just check the Stats...Mulder said:
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
Mulder said:
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
AHA !! So I'm not the only one that remembersBaylorTaxman said:Mulder said:
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
You went away for several years. Is it possible to do the same again, or have you been banned on the UT boards? And how are Coach G and Cokie "The Law" Reed doing?
Personally, I think it's great to have a dominant program that regularly blows everybody else in the conference out and I hope that continues to be the case as long as possible. The day will come when Mulkey finally hangs it up (hopefully still a long time into the future) and the overwhelming dominance will likely end shortly thereafter, but until then I couldn't care less about the OU and UT programs or anybody else in the conference and hope the Lady Bears continue to consistently destroy all of them.Malbec said:
Texas and Oklahoma need to do something about their WBB programs. It has gotten pathetic. Baylor shouldn't have to be carrying the full weight of Big XII WBB. We can, but we shouldn't have to be.
Quote:
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
No we don't. Brittney Griner played 35 + minutes a game.
On another note:
Saturday, Nina Davis' number was retired. Why hasn't Brittney Griner's number been retired?
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Quote:
You do realize that is exactly what we are doing this year...just check the Stats...
How many minutes did the bench play at the 2019 U.S. Virgin Islands Paradise Jam Women against Indiana and USCe, and against UConn?
Do those games count?
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Mulder said:Quote:
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
No we don't. Brittney Griner played 35 + minutes a game.
On another note:
Saturday, Nina Davis' number was retired. Why hasn't Brittney Griner's number been retired?
Wrong. 30 a game her senior year. Never went to 35 a game.
At the risk of feeding the troll, are you suggesting that getting the bench playing time is more important than winning basketball games? This isn't peewee ball.Mulder said:Quote:
You do realize that is exactly what we are doing this year...just check the Stats...
How many minutes did the bench play at the 2019 U.S. Virgin Islands Paradise Jam Women against Indiana and USCe, and against UConn?
Do those games count?
R11
Quote:
Yep, I remember you. You are a fraud.
BaylorSlackman,
Click your Rudy Red Heels together three times and repeat after Mulder:
This is only an internet message forum.
This is only an internet message forum.
This is only an internet message forum.
This is only . . .
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Mulder=UT btw
Remove the pejorative from your post -sic- and I'll consider whether or not to respond.
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Because she never graduated from Baylor. During your absence, this has been discussed multiple times.Mulder said:Quote:
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
No we don't. Brittney Griner played 35 + minutes a game.
On another note:
Saturday, Nina Davis' number was retired. Why hasn't Brittney Griner's number been retired?
I'm fine with BU blowing other teams out in the B12. It would be nice if when we did it, it was a worthwhile accomplishment.Johnny Bear said:Personally, I think it's great to have a dominant program that regularly blows everybody else in the conference out and I hope that continues to be the case as long as possible. The day will come when Mulkey finally hangs it up (hopefully still a long time into the future) and the overwhelming dominance will likely end shortly thereafter, but until then I couldn't care less about the OU and UT programs or anybody else in the conference and hope the Lady Bears continue to consistently destroy all of them.Malbec said:
Texas and Oklahoma need to do something about their WBB programs. It has gotten pathetic. Baylor shouldn't have to be carrying the full weight of Big XII WBB. We can, but we shouldn't have to be.
So you think the time to get bench players experience is on the road against the most dominant program in the history of WBB? Wow. Just wow.Mulder said:Quote:
You do realize that is exactly what we are doing this year...just check the Stats...
How many minutes did the bench play at the 2019 U.S. Virgin Islands Paradise Jam Women against Indiana and USCe, and against UConn?
Do those games count?
We were without Lauren Cox at the Paradise Jam. One of the best players in the country. So, it makes sense that against two ranked teams, one of which is now #1, our normal starters would play more. But against Indiana, Caitlin Bickle played 23 minutes. Erin DeGrate played 12 minutes.
Caitlin played 25 minutes against South Carolina.
Mulder said:
Remove the pejorative from your post -sic- and I'll consider whether or not to respond.
UT is a pejorative?
Are you still holding out for Moon to dunk?
An Objective Fan of The Former Baylor Lady Bears.
Mulder said:
Are you still holding out for Moon to dunk?
Yes
Where's Scully? Do us a favor and go back to UT board.Mulder said:
If the Olivers started for OU, Coach Coale would challenge Baylor for the conference title.
This malarkey about 'she's a freshman' or 'wait her turn' is passe'. There's no reason to have these athletes as spectators on the pine while a starter is having an off game or 'resting' on the court.
The starters ought to play 30 minutes or less while the bench plays 10 minutes or more.
Just to be clear, she has now graduated and has her degree. Brock mentioned others who are in line to be considered for jersey retirement. No idea who, but definitely more to be considered.BaylorTaxman said:Because she never graduated from Baylor. During your absence, this has been discussed multiple times.Mulder said:Quote:
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
No we don't. Brittney Griner played 35 + minutes a game.
On another note:
Saturday, Nina Davis' number was retired. Why hasn't Brittney Griner's number been retired?
Yes - you are correct. That you for clarifying. I believe she graduated in August, well after Nina. I think it explains why Nina's jersey was retired first. Mulder was insinuating a different reason.
So are you advocating that in every game we play... no matter the opponent or stage...all minutes should be the same and all players play their designated minutes?Mulder said:Quote:
You do realize that is exactly what we are doing this year...just check the Stats...
How many minutes did the bench play at the 2019 U.S. Virgin Islands Paradise Jam Women against Indiana and USCe, and against UConn?
Do those games count?
In addition to Griner bailing before she finished getting her degree (at least at the time), there was probably fallout between Mulkey and her over a book she "wrote" (which was more likely mostly written by an activist ghost writer) shortly after her departure in which she portrayed herself as a helpless victim of homophobic discrimination while at BU. Don't know if that relationship damage has been repaired and if so to what degree, but given the high degree of importance Mulkey places on things like loyalty, it's understandable to me why she wouldn't be in favor of honoring Griner in that way - despite all the fantastic things Griner did at BU as a player.Chibears2 said:Just to be clear, she has now graduated and has her degree. Brock mentioned others who are in line to be considered for jersey retirement. No idea who, but definitely more to be considered.BaylorTaxman said:Because she never graduated from Baylor. During your absence, this has been discussed multiple times.Mulder said:Quote:
We do this. We've done it for year. Why do you think BG doesn't have the NCAA #1 number of points????
No we don't. Brittney Griner played 35 + minutes a game.
On another note:
Saturday, Nina Davis' number was retired. Why hasn't Brittney Griner's number been retired?
I can remember a time when our women's BB program was regularly blown out by most members of the conference. We should keep it up as long as we can.
Starters vs bench players playing time is a juggle. Playing time is finite and playing one group more means playing the other less. There are reasons you would play your starters at the end of a game, even one with a wide margin, for example, how the second group practiced or played when they were last in (not going to reward poor practice habits or play by giving MORE time, if the poor play was related to effort or not internalizing coaching) or needing to make sure the starters have their chemistry developed or game fitness achieved or that the starters know how to handle end of game situations. Athletes are creatures of habit. A coach needs to make sure first group is used to playing a 40 minute game. Can't have them shutting down at end of big game because that's what they've trained their bodies and minds to expect.
There are also reasons you would pull your starters and put in the second group: development of second group through live action game experience, rest for starters, starters not performing well and needing to send a message, not embarrassing an opponent, avoiding injury, etc.
The best person to determine that balance, is someone close to the program who sees the players over the long term of their careers and who sees them nearly everyday...practice, games, travel, conditioning, etc. Add on someone whose very livelihood depends on putting the individuals who make up the team in the best position to be successful. That person is NOT any of us on an internet message board, pretty sure....
There are also reasons you would pull your starters and put in the second group: development of second group through live action game experience, rest for starters, starters not performing well and needing to send a message, not embarrassing an opponent, avoiding injury, etc.
The best person to determine that balance, is someone close to the program who sees the players over the long term of their careers and who sees them nearly everyday...practice, games, travel, conditioning, etc. Add on someone whose very livelihood depends on putting the individuals who make up the team in the best position to be successful. That person is NOT any of us on an internet message board, pretty sure....
So am IScottS said:Mulder said:
Are you still holding out for Moon to dunk?
Yes
It is fun to speculate. I recall that quite a few on this board were firm in their belief that the "Fierce Five" of last year could have finished second to the Lady Bears if they were competing as a unit in conference play. That was thinking with the heart more so than with a recognition of the realities of competition in the Big 12, even when the league is not as powerful over all as it has been at times in the past.
Talent without experience is flawed, sometimes fatally so. We have seen a jump in performance of the four first year players (counting the red shirt of Trinity Oliver in the frosh class) who are still with us. Put NaLyssa Smith with her classmates, keep Ursin down the bench, and I would agree that the four sophomores and Ursin would do real damage. Add Jordyn Oliver and the transfer, Erin DeGrate as the backups to the starters and you might have a conference champ, though one capable of losing two or three games along the way, and relatively few blowouts.
The perfect example of the advantage of experience as a sort of yeast in conjunction with talent is Moon Ursin. She was explosive and talented as a frosh but it was not harnessed to experience and fouls frequently sent her back to the bench. Last year she improved in that regard and began to show flashes of what was possible at the offensive end of the floor. By season's end she was ready to contribute to the Final Four run to the title.
This year she is a star coming off the bench, as capable as anyone we have in taking over a game. She is an example for the young talent waiting their turn on this year's bench.
The extraordinary defense and the potent offensive capabilities of the current version of the Lady Bears makes the appearance of this conference a deceptive one, something akin to the "rear view mirror effect." Teams trailing along in the wake of the flagship program in this conference are closer than they appear in the rear view mirror. Several of the teams have quality players who shine against other programs, players capable of being considered for All Conference honors. When playing against Baylor, spear headed by arguably the two top defenders in the game this year and stalwart throughout the lineup, many of these opposing star players lose a bit of their luster. It speaks to Baylor's strength more so than to the lack of strength on the part of our opponents, who shine against lesser teams than the mighty Ladies from Baylor.
Talent without experience is flawed, sometimes fatally so. We have seen a jump in performance of the four first year players (counting the red shirt of Trinity Oliver in the frosh class) who are still with us. Put NaLyssa Smith with her classmates, keep Ursin down the bench, and I would agree that the four sophomores and Ursin would do real damage. Add Jordyn Oliver and the transfer, Erin DeGrate as the backups to the starters and you might have a conference champ, though one capable of losing two or three games along the way, and relatively few blowouts.
The perfect example of the advantage of experience as a sort of yeast in conjunction with talent is Moon Ursin. She was explosive and talented as a frosh but it was not harnessed to experience and fouls frequently sent her back to the bench. Last year she improved in that regard and began to show flashes of what was possible at the offensive end of the floor. By season's end she was ready to contribute to the Final Four run to the title.
This year she is a star coming off the bench, as capable as anyone we have in taking over a game. She is an example for the young talent waiting their turn on this year's bench.
The extraordinary defense and the potent offensive capabilities of the current version of the Lady Bears makes the appearance of this conference a deceptive one, something akin to the "rear view mirror effect." Teams trailing along in the wake of the flagship program in this conference are closer than they appear in the rear view mirror. Several of the teams have quality players who shine against other programs, players capable of being considered for All Conference honors. When playing against Baylor, spear headed by arguably the two top defenders in the game this year and stalwart throughout the lineup, many of these opposing star players lose a bit of their luster. It speaks to Baylor's strength more so than to the lack of strength on the part of our opponents, who shine against lesser teams than the mighty Ladies from Baylor.
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