Oldbear300, Dana, ScottS, Setshot, Adriacus

11,307 Views | 143 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by TechDawgMc
Bruin92
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Tell me how I should feel about Collen. What are your thoughts on how she will do filling Kim's shoes?
PartyBear
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Where are the former LadyBears who have been posting here? I would like to hear their thoughts.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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Why are you asking Scott? He wants to mortgage the rest of the athletic budget to pay Kim $5 million a year.
Bruin92
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Why are you asking Scott? He wants to mortgage the rest of the athletic budget to pay Kim $5 million a year.


Because he's a smart guy and very knowledgeable when it comes to WBB.

How stupid of him to want to hold onto the greatest coach Baylor has ever had. /s
baylorbear33
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PartyBear said:

Where are the former LadyBears who have been posting here? I would like to hear their thoughts.


I'm here, but I'm honestly still too irritated with this whole situation to give you an intelligent response. I also do not follow WNBA ball, so I know absolutely nothing about Nicki Collen. I would have preferred a more known college coach with a successful record, but here we are, so I will have to wait and see what happens just like everyone else. I feel fairly confident this has leveled the conference playing field though, so it will be a battle.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Collen had 3 years as a HC at Atlanta [the last two years without key players due to them sitting out over BLM, etc. disputes with ownership].

In her one season with a full team, she had the best record in the East and made the Semis. And she did it with the attached roster. Look carefully.......it was a masterful smoke & mirrors coaching job. That roster had woefully limited talent. I didn't realize how truly bad the talent level was in Atlanta. Anyone that can take that roster to the best record can coach.

Bruin92
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baylorbear33 said:

PartyBear said:

Where are the former LadyBears who have been posting here? I would like to hear their thoughts.


I'm here, but I'm honestly still too irritated with this whole situation to give you an intelligent response. I also do not follow WNBA ball, so I know absolutely nothing about Nicki Collen. I would have preferred a more known college coach with a successful record, but here we are, so I will have to wait and see what happens just like everyone else.


Glad you are here to give us your insight. I am assuming you played for Kim?
baylorbear33
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I was not blessed with Kim as a coach. I was in the smoke & mirror era prior to her arrival.
blueeyedbear
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Bruin92 said:

baylorbear33 said:

PartyBear said:

Where are the former LadyBears who have been posting here? I would like to hear their thoughts.


I'm here, but I'm honestly still too irritated with this whole situation to give you an intelligent response. I also do not follow WNBA ball, so I know absolutely nothing about Nicki Collen. I would have preferred a more known college coach with a successful record, but here we are, so I will have to wait and see what happens just like everyone else.


Glad you are here to give us your insight. I am assuming you played for Kim?
No she paid her hell dues under Hogg. I hope Collen can hit the ground running and bring in some ballers. Egbo. Smith and Bickels are in. Hope the rest stay when they have had a chance to meet her.
Stefano DiMera
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Good summation..ill add..and this is no knock on Kim...but she doesnt appear to have that methodical post heavy offense weve been used to..more uptempo so should be great for recruiting.
Bruin92
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blueeyedbear said:

Bruin92 said:

baylorbear33 said:

PartyBear said:

Where are the former LadyBears who have been posting here? I would like to hear their thoughts.


I'm here, but I'm honestly still too irritated with this whole situation to give you an intelligent response. I also do not follow WNBA ball, so I know absolutely nothing about Nicki Collen. I would have preferred a more known college coach with a successful record, but here we are, so I will have to wait and see what happens just like everyone else.


Glad you are here to give us your insight. I am assuming you played for Kim?


No she paid her hell dues under Hogg. .


Thanks. Wasn't aware.
Bruin92
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baylorbear33 said:

I was not blessed with Kim as a coach. I was in the smoke & mirror era prior to her arrival.


Glad you are here with us.
baylorbear33
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Bruin92 said:

baylorbear33 said:

I was not blessed with Kim as a coach. I was in the smoke & mirror era prior to her arrival.


Glad you are here with us.


Thank you.
Dcheetah
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McDaniel and Lewis are in.
DanaDane
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You got me on this one. I was surprised as everyone else. I honestly don't know any more about her than you or others. I've seen compliments paid to her coaching abilities by coaches for whom she's worked and players who have played for her. And, as far as recruiting, she was an assistant college coach for 14 years including stops at Arkansas and Louisville, so it's not like it will be something she's never done before.

Although the sting of losing Kim will be felt by me for awhile because she's a generational type winner at anything she does, I can get behind this hire. I'll still be pulling for the Lady Bears every game starting in November.

My only surprise is that I would have thought the hire would come from a Top 20 existing Power 5 type coach who saw a budget, a program and an opportunity to finally step up to the elite level. And, if we were unable to pull that off in a short time, I kinda thought Rhoades would go Messer/Brock for at least a short period in an attempt to stabilize everything. I'm still trying to decipher whether Rhoades had a different plan in mind all along or there's been a different commitment to WBB (which I hope is not the case).
Old300Bear
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I honestly have no clue. Lot depends on her staff. She has never recruited, so that is concerning. She gets the full wait and see treatment from me. I am all for her.
Fred Barber
Bruin92
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Any chance we keep Messer and Brock?
ScottS
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

Why are you asking Scott? He wants to mortgage the rest of the athletic budget to pay Kim $5 million a year.
Why you hating?
HarryJohnson
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College basketball is all about recruiting. So, I guess we will see in a few years.
ScottS
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Bruin92 said:

Tell me how I should feel about Collen. What are your thoughts on how she will do filling Kim's shoes?
I was hoping for someone with more college recruiting experience but this might be fine. I don't follow the WNBA so I'm not up on her pro experience.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Got on YouTube, watched about 15-20 minutes [each] from two 2018 Dream games.

Some specifics:

Offensively, she is the opposite of Mulkey. Mulkey was VERY old school. If no transition, pull it out, Mulkey calls a play, run the play. If play fails, pull it out, Mulkey calls new play, run that play.

Collen doesn't call plays except in specific scenarios......out of bounds, etc. Cullen is a "concept coach" like Drew. She coaches concepts and these concepts are used within various sets. Plays aren't called, sets are called by players. The initiator will simply create based upon how the D aligns. If D is giving up foul line extended, O will run sets to get the best shooters those shots. If the D is vulnerable to quick back side drives off of a skip pass, the best driver will be in that spot. Each player has certain "sweet spots" that the O will flow in sets to enable those shots. Most of the sets are 5 Out Flow. As players move through the motions, other players will rotate for defensive balance.

Spacing, shooting, quick decisions........and no play calls except in specific situations.

The team seemed very middle oriented [best if you can do it]. Ran a ton of double high ball screen action to force the switch toward the side selected by PG.

D.......nothing exotic. Deny the drive, chase off the 3. Would love to see her work some of the No Middle concepts that Drew employs.
drahthaar
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Adriacus Peratuun said:

Got on YouTube, watched about 15-20 minutes [each] from two 2018 Dream games.

Some specifics:

Offensively, she is the opposite of Mulkey. Mulkey was VERY old school. If no transition, pull it out, Mulkey calls a play, run the play. If play fails, pull it out, Mulkey calls new play, run that play.

Collen doesn't call plays except in specific scenarios......out of bounds, etc. Cullen is a "concept coach" like Drew. She coaches concepts and these concepts are used within various sets. Plays aren't called, sets are called by players. The initiator will simply create based upon how the D aligns. If D is giving up foul line extended, O will run sets to get the best shooters those shots. If the D is vulnerable to quick back side drives off of a skip pass, the best driver will be in that spot. Each player has certain "sweet spots" that the O will flow in sets to enable those shots. Most of the sets are 5 Out Flow. As players move through the motions, other players will rotate for defensive balance.

Spacing, shooting, quick decisions........and no play calls except in specific situations.

The team seemed very middle oriented [best if you can do it]. Ran a ton of double high ball screen action to force the switch toward the side selected by PG.

D.......nothing exotic. Deny the drive, chase off the 3. Would love to see her work some of the No Middle concepts that Drew employs.


Going to need great G's...ought to be seen as opportunity for those players. Sounds encouraging but will take some time to transition. Likely to free up Queen and Nalyssa also.
Morgan101
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Did anyone notice that Alexis Prince once played for her?
Would love to hear her opinion of her old coach!
BuinmyBlood
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Dcheetah said:

McDaniel and Lewis are in.
Outstanding! Thanks for the update...
Adriacus Peratuun
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drahthaar said:





Going to need great PG's...ought to be seen as opportunity for those players. Sounds encouraging but will take some time to transition. Likely to free up Queen and Nalyssa also.
The Collen O will be FAR less PG centric than Mulkey's O. Mulkey had the PG initiating every possession, no exceptions. Collen is more like Drew......4-5 players will initiate action. This keeps the O from becoming stagnant by wearing down 1 player with a constant burden.

NaLyssa Smith should be dancing. No more fighting through constant double/triple teams.

And for the first time in decades conference foes will have to scout Baylor. No more "we run only 8-10 plays but run them well and have superior athletes".

Concept teams are particularly painful to scout since set flow depends on D alignment. Unless you plan to exactly duplicate some prior D, what you see on film may only be slightly useful or could be misleading.
bugwub78
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Also worried about recruiting. Reminds me of a great coach that went to UT and couldn't recruit...Gail Goestenkors. Did not end well. But had low expectations with AD MR making the hire.
Reverend
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Come on. They will now have to "scout us"? When we never (hardly) lost a game? Come up with something that makes sense, if you're an expert.
BUatbirth
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Thanks for the breakdown AP. Is it safe to say that under Collen, Baylor players will be pro ready players? If that's the case...I would think that's a huge recruiting plus...especially for the top recruits.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Reverend said:

Come on. They will now have to "scout us"? When we never (hardly) lost a game? Come up with something that makes sense, if you're an expert.
In 20+ years, Mulkey ran about 30-35ish plays in half court O. Each season she picked about 12-14 to run that season based upon personnel. Of that number, about 7-8 of those plays were run 85-90% of the time.

Watch any season.....it is 3-4 weeks into the season before you see more than 4-5 different plays run in a game.

Every single coach in the B12 has a binder with every single Baylor play drawn up. They know what Kim runs. Everyone knows what Kim runs. Her keys are multiple plays from same alignment, solid execution, superior players. It is "win by Jimmys and Joes" not win by Xs and Os.

Name the last time Baylor beat a team that had better players/athletes than Baylor.
Reverend
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So, we'll be better?

Where do you coach?
blackie
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Old300Bear said:

I honestly have no clue. Lot depends on her staff. She has never recruited, so that is concerning. She gets the full wait and see treatment from me. I am all for her.
You might need to be more specific about recruiting as she had quite a bit of college coaching as an assistant. She had to have recruiting as part of her duties you would think.
Adriacus Peratuun
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BUatbirth said:

Thanks for the breakdown AP. Is it safe to say that under Collen, Baylor players will be pro ready players? If that's the case...I would think that's a huge recruiting plus...especially for the top recruits.
Yes. Collen runs pro sets with pro movement/action concepts. Less of a motion offense than UConn. More similar to Oregon in design but with some of the ball screen/dribble drive concepts used by Louisville.

Smith will thrive in this O. Moon [if she stays] will love it.......middle is open for drives. Tempo is similar to most Baylor teams.....try to run. But expect far more secondary break shots rather than pull out run a play.

Collen should be really happy to find she has a talent advantage.....certainly not the case in Atlanta.
Adriacus Peratuun
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Reverend said:

So, we'll be better?

Where do you coach?
I didn't offer qualitative judgment.

Anyone can watch & see the plays Baylor ran.

How many times last season did Baylor run an X cut double screen curl to get Moon Ursin the FT line jumper?

Answer: many, many, many, many times.

How many times last season did Baylor flash Egbo off of a backside screen to a frontside post?

Answer: many, many, many, many times.

and on and on and on
fredbear
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Thanks AP! Everyone else just blowing smoke and your analyzing the situation fairly. Appreciate your work.
T4E
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Mulkey said during LSU softball game Messer was coming to Baton Rouge.
 
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