Based upon the results of the past five years, what grade (A to F) would you assign to those two programs?

I'd give both programs a C+. There's plenty of room for improvement.

I have probably been as close to these two programs as any fan over the last 20 years.

Baylor, as a private school, suffers greatly from the NCAA rules when it comes to "partial scholarship" sports. Softball gets 13 ships for a 25 or so person roster. Baseball gets 11.7 for a 40 person roster. That means the players must come our of their own pockets for a good portion of their schooling. And that is why both sports look for players that receive academic aid or other forms of aid in addition to the athletic ship money.

I would give baseball a C. I was close to Coach Smith in baseball. He was my next door neighbor for many years. He brought us to national prominence in baseball. He suffered when his lead assistant, Coach Thompson, left. But Smitty was a great "relationship" coach. He was greatly important in getting the Baylor Ballpark built. Coach Rod is more of an X and O type coach. He has done some good things. I would give our current program a C+. He needs better pitchers. His recruiting of position players is pretty good. This coming recruiting year is really important for baseball. We loose a lot on the mound.

I would give softball a B. Primarily because of Coach Moore. IMO, he epitomizes what a Baylor coach should be (along with Coach Drew). He is a strong man of faith and really good softball mind. He has suffered greatly with loss of his lead assistant, Coach Lumley. Mark suffered a long time with cancer. He and Glen were very close. I'm sure it caused a lot of personal suffering. Additionally, Coach Moore had a heart attach this year. This also set him back. All of that being said, he needs a dominating pitcher like he has had in the past.

My thoughts.

Softball is trending down the last couple years, but during Coach Moore's tenure he has made them into a nationally known, respectable program. Before his arrival softball at BU was pretty much an afterthought. Overall i'm very happy with the product the softball team puts on the field every year.
2017 - A+ (48-15 record, beat #5 seed Arizona in the Supers, made World Series)
2018 - B (38-18 record, made a Regional, very good season but obviously a little down from 2107)
2019 - totally erased from my memory; very bad things happened
2020 - B (19-5 record in games they got to play (solid bounce back from 2019)
2021 - C (27-23 record, a down year to be sure, still made a regional - its not all doom & gloom)

Baseball is easily trending up overall; 2013,14,15, &16 were all losing years. I'm very satisfied with the teams that Coach Rod has put on the field the past 5 years. Making a Regional has not always been an automatic in BU baseball history, but the Bears are possibly looking at the 4th straight this season.
2017 - C (34-23 record,12-12 conf, made a Regional, put the 4 year losing streak to bed)
2018 - B (37-21 record,13-11 conf, Won Big12 Tourney, made a Regional)
2019 - B (35-19 record, 14-8 conf, made a Regional 3rd straight season)
2020 - pass (10-6 record in games they played)
2021 - TBD (31-18, 11-13 conf, better year than projected, still could make Regional)

For me:

Softball: C-

in a bad rut. Inability [year in, year out] for several years to secure a true pitching ace and 1-2 big bats is amazing given the talent in Texas. Not a facilities issues. Not a recruiting base issue. Below lackluster.

Baseball: C

He inherited a mess. But he is in Year 5. Excuses are starting to wear thin. I see a roster full of scrappy players but lacking the scary talent. Physically, Baylor's players are simply small-ish. Lacking a handful of 6'2 to 6'5 220-230 pound types. Not a roster full, but a small handful of big guys. Do we feed our players? And a killer Friday night starter would be splendid.

Adriacus Peratuun said:

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For me:

Baseball: C

He inherited a mess. But he is in Year 5. Excuses are starting to wear thin.

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Who in the baseball program is making excuses for anything?

MrGolfguy said:

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Adriacus Peratuun said:

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For me:

Baseball: C

He inherited a mess. But he is in Year 5. Excuses are starting to wear thin.

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Who in the baseball program is making excuses for anything?

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No one [including me] said anyone in the program made any excuses. In discussing the state of the program with folks, I do hear "well.....injuries.......well.......bad bounce.......well......timing........well........schedule......".

I am simply a believer that "with a five year window of results" a team is who their results say they are.

They way you said it made it seem like you were referring to someone in the program.

MrGolfguy said:

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They way you said it made it seem like you were referring to someone in the program.

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No.......the way you chose to read it brought you to that conclusion.

No, you wrote -- "He inherited a mess, But he's in year 5, Excuses are starting to wear thin"

The way you wrote it made it seem like you were talking about Coach Rod or someone in the program. That's very clear.

Either way it doesn't matter. I just want to see them win a few in OKCity and make a good showing in a Regional. That would be a good season given they were expected to finish 8th of 9 in conf & not make postseason.

MrGolfguy said:

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No, you wrote -- "He inherited a mess, But he's in year 5, Excuses are starting to wear thin"

The way you wrote it made it seem like you were talking about Coach Rod or someone in the program. That's very clear.

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So......when you totally alter the punctuation to change the way it reads........does that matter?

Why are you two having a pissing match firstly ?
Secondly, Rodriguez has BU playing middle of pack B12 ball.. same as coach Smith. A solid team who will on most years have a ceiling of a Regional appearance.
Lastly, the softball team I think is struggling for 2 reasons. One the rise of TX, OSU and even ISU. Secondly Moore's style has always been get a bunch of slap hitters and move them the around the bases playing small ball. The game has evolved to be more power hitter friendly. He's a fantastic coach and I think he will start to evolve or will continue to slide

I follow the softball program much more closely than baseball. The lack of a Canion or similar Ace is what softball is all about, or seemingly so. Injuries severely inhibited this year's team from a hitting perspective, and I believe it was a significant achievement to make the NCAA tournament this year. Definitely agree with the opinion that being a private school hurts BU due to the partial scholarship situation. Would love for softball snd baseball to be full scholarship sports or at least to have more scholarships covered. Gia was a gamer this year, but injuries have taken their toll. The pitcher with the hyphenated last name (obviously the name escapes me) has plenty of velocity, but doesn't vary her speeds or location nearly enough. I think a good freshman pitcher is incoming, and this should help next year. If they stay healthy, next year could be pretty good.

Bearprof I agree, softball has pretty much always been about 'Ace' pitchers - if you've got one you go far, if not you're cooked.
The hyphenated pitcher you couldn't think of is Sidney Holman-Mansell from Belton

Got chuckle from pissing contest, but it's grammar and fan forum and we love Baylor. Agree with most every post, thanks for keeping up with these 2 sports so well.

Baseball a B . Softball,a C- . I will coment on the softball team,because I watch more softball. The softball team is in a pivitol point. I expected more from them this year. I dont buy the excuse that injuries. Really hampered this team. Look at our from the 2019 team and this years team. Both were substandard and both had a common denominator. Both, didnt have a Lumley. We need to sell this program as a top school and a top program. It worked in basketball. You dont get lucky and make it to the world series. Coach Moore had done it every four years. I dont see it happening anytime soon unless the AD, opens up the wallet to upgrade the staff that is lacking. Do we want a championship team or a mediocre team. What say you ?

Notouokie said:

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Baseball a B . Softball,a C- . I will coment on the softball team,because I watch more softball. The softball team is in a pivitol point. I expected more from them this year. I dont buy the excuse that injuries. Really hampered this team. Look at our from the 2019 team and this years team. Both were substandard and both had a common denominator. Both, didnt have a Lumley. We need to sell this program as a top school and a top program. It worked in basketball. You dont get lucky and make it to the world series. Coach Moore had done it every four years. I dont see it happening anytime soon unless the AD, opens up the wallet to upgrade the staff that is lacking. Do we want a championship team or a mediocre team. What say you ?

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I think women's basketball decisions by the admin answered that question for you

Notouokie said:

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Baseball a B . Softball,a C- . I will coment on the softball team,because I watch more softball. The softball team is in a pivitol point. I expected more from them this year. I dont buy the excuse that injuries. Really hampered this team. Look at our from the 2019 team and this years team. Both were substandard and both had a common denominator. Both, didnt have a Lumley. We need to sell this program as a top school and a top program. It worked in basketball. You dont get lucky and make it to the world series. Coach Moore had done it every four years. I dont see it happening anytime soon unless the AD, opens up the wallet to upgrade the staff that is lacking. Do we want a championship team or a mediocre team. What say you ?

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You cannot ignore the financial difficulties that partial scholarship sports face.

Let's consider softball. Assuming a 25 person roster, the average player is paying about $25,000 out of their own pocket to play for Baylor. Plus the cost of food and housing. At a state school, that number is $5,000. That is a huge difference and is hard to overcome with academic and "other" aid. It makes recruiting especially difficult.