"Red-letter Christian" used to be a common label for wokeys. Only Jesus' direct teachings for them. Matt 19 sort of blew that up and of course they chose wokey over Jesus.

This thread perfectly demonstrates the core problem with the current "live your truth" philosophy. Everything comes down to interpretation and rather than engage in reasoned discussion to establish an accepted "truth" based on collective reasoning, debate is truncated and shut down because any challenge to a "truth" is treated as a slight / attack / intolerance. Sure, plenty of that exists on both sides, but to begin from a proposition of "I think, therefore I am right" takes the nature of humanity to an untenable place.

There must be a single, objective "truth" somewhere that is not subject to interpretation, otherwise, there is no meaning to anything outside of our own self-serving interpretation of reality. Even if your interpretation leads you to help people or be a "good" person, your actions are still narcissitic because it is what you are fulfilling your own parameters rather than submitting yourself to a calling / discipline imposed from outside yourself. Much the same way "morality" cannot truly exist without a universe (God) imposed standard, otherwise your morality is only as meaningful as you interpret your own actions.

A great quote from the great hip-hop artist Lecrea comes to mind often: "If what is true for you is true for you, and what is true for me is true for me, what if my truth says that your truth is a lie, is it still true?"

Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

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It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

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You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

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Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

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So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

---

It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

---

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You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

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Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

---

So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

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Respectfully, that makes no sense. While Jesus provided many teachings in the Bible, he often used parables or actions / miracles (e.g., feeding the 5000) to teach, which require interpretation to understand.

Jesus may (and should) be your authority, but it will always be Jesus interpreted by you / those who you learned from.

303Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

---

It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

---

---

You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

---

Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

---

So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

---

---

Respectfully, that makes no sense. While Jesus provided many teachings in the Bible, he often used parables or actions / miracles (e.g., feeding the 5000) to teach, which require interpretation to understand.

Jesus may (and should) be your authority, but it will always be Jesus interpreted by you / those who you learned from.

---

My authority is in the person and work of Jesus Christ not simply his teachings. I look at the ways that Jesus lived and did ministry as they are represented in the gospels.

Waco1947 said:

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303Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

---

It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

---

---

You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

---

Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

---

So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

---

---

Respectfully, that makes no sense. While Jesus provided many teachings in the Bible, he often used parables or actions / miracles (e.g., feeding the 5000) to teach, which require interpretation to understand.

Jesus may (and should) be your authority, but it will always be Jesus interpreted by you / those who you learned from.

---

My authority is in the person and work of Jesus Christ not simply his teachings. I look at the ways that Jesus lived and did ministry as they are represented in the gospels.

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How can you trust the gospels?

Waco1947 said:

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303Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

---

It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

---

---

You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

---

Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

---

So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

---

---

Respectfully, that makes no sense. While Jesus provided many teachings in the Bible, he often used parables or actions / miracles (e.g., feeding the 5000) to teach, which require interpretation to understand.

Jesus may (and should) be your authority, but it will always be Jesus interpreted by you / those who you learned from.

---

My authority is in the person and work of Jesus Christ not simply his teachings. I look at the ways that Jesus lived and did ministry as they are represented in the gospels.

---

That is still interpretation. You were not there to witness the acts of Jesus, nor have you (to my knowledge) spoken directly with Him about them or their meanings.

The central point I am trying to make is this: all life, including faith, is interpreted by an individual. Calling out "interpretation" generally is non sequitur in this case.

303Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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303Bear said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

There's a difference between the authority of the scripture and our interpretations.
We progressives believe in its authority (which is personified in Jesus in whom we live, love and have our being) not the interpretation of others.
You may have your interpretation but do not claim it as the one and only final interpretation.
Evangelicals ior traditionalist are too driven and insist on their interpretation.
Full disclosure
I got this idea from a pastor in Arkansas

---

It is your position that only your personal interpretation of scripture has authority, but evangelicals and traditionalists insist on their interpretation? You made this up. It's not what I said at all. I apologize for the "insist" comment. It was mind reading.

Surely you recognize the irony in that position, don't you?

---

---

You said that you believe in scripture's authority, but not the interpretation of others. That suggests, if not outright states, that the only interpretation you believe to have authority is your own.

I am not sure there's any other way to interpret that statement.

---

Right I do not believe your interpretation but I believe mine. Scriptures' authority is Jesus not my interpretation or yours

---

So your interpretation of Jesus' interpretation is your only "authority," but evangelicals insist on their interpretation?

No, I did not say my interpretation of Jesus is my authority. Jesus is my authority

---

---

Respectfully, that makes no sense. While Jesus provided many teachings in the Bible, he often used parables or actions / miracles (e.g., feeding the 5000) to teach, which require interpretation to understand.

Jesus may (and should) be your authority, but it will always be Jesus interpreted by you / those who you learned from.

---

My authority is in the person and work of Jesus Christ not simply his teachings. I look at the ways that Jesus lived and did ministry as they are represented in the gospels.

---

That is still interpretation. You were not there to witness the acts of Jesus, nor have you (to my knowledge) spoken directly with Him about them or their meanings.

The central point I am trying to make is this: all life, including faith, is interpreted by an individual. Calling out "interpretation" generally is non sequitur in this case.

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yeah... i think it is hilarious when people say things like "I don't live by strict interpretations of scripture, but by the life & words of Jesus instead". So you don't like the Bible... but you trust the Bible to give you an accurate description of the life & words of Jesus?? yeah... that makes sense.

"How can you trust the gospels?"


I am not sure what you are asking.

Quote:

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Waco1947 said:
My authority is in the person and work of Jesus Christ not simply his teachings. I look at the ways that Jesus lived and did ministry as they are represented in the gospels.

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That is still interpretation. Of course, it is an interpretation with emphasis on "an" not the "the" interpretation of scripture.

You were not there to witness the acts of Jesus, nor have you (to my knowledge) spoken directly with Him about them or their meanings. Like you, I have two witnesses to the faith.
1) The witness of the first disciples and the faith they passed on to the church. The church preserved this witness first in oral tradition and then in written tradition by writers and theologians of the gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
2) As Karl Barth says, "The living Christ comes alive when the word of God is proclaimed and read and Jesus, himself, walks among our pews." I believe in that living Christ who comes alive in the Word. As John says, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." The Word (Jesus) continues to come become flesh among us the faith and work of so many disciples - many of whom oppose me. I do not doubt their faith in Jesus. I doubt their interpretations of scripture and doctrine.

The central point I am trying to make is this: all life, including faith, is interpreted by an individual. Calling out "interpretation" generally is non sequitur in this case.

What I am "calling out" is the claim that one and only one interpretation of a text is right. I am challenging what seems to me to be an erroneous claim.

Your 2nd source of authority there is from an uninspired human man.

Satan working hard through you.

Married A Horn said:

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Your 2nd source of authority there is from an uninspired human man.

Satan working hard through you.

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What 2nd source? And what authority do you speak?

Waco1947 said:

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"How can you trust the gospels?"


I am not sure what you are asking.

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How can you trust what you are reading of Christ. How do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

What account of Christ's life is trustworthy and what is not? How did you make those determinations?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"How can you trust the gospels?"


I am not sure what you are asking.

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How can you trust what you are reading of Christ. How do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

What account of Christ's life is trustworthy and what is not? How did you make those determinations?

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I answered these questions already. Read muy earlier post and get back to me.

Waco1947 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"How can you trust the gospels?"


I am not sure what you are asking.

---

How can you trust what you are reading of Christ. How do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

What account of Christ's life is trustworthy and what is not? How did you make those determinations?

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I answered these questions already. Read muy earlier post and get back to me.

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I read them. Not just from this thread but from many others.

The reasons you give now for believing are the same reasons you ridicule others for having a theology different than yours.

You treat the Bible like a buffet, taking what you like and discarding what you do not. I suggest you ease up on the shrimp and crab legs and get you some snow peas and cauliflower to go with everything else.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

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"How can you trust the gospels?"


I am not sure what you are asking.

---

How can you trust what you are reading of Christ. How do you know what to believe and what not to believe?

What account of Christ's life is trustworthy and what is not? How did you make those determinations?

---

I answered these questions already. Read muy earlier post and get back to me.

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I read them. Not just from this thread but from many others.

The reasons you give now for believing are the same reasons you ridicule others for having a theology different than yours.

You treat the Bible like a buffet, taking what you like and discarding what you do not. I suggest you ease up on the shrimp and crab legs and get you some snow peas and cauliflower to go with everything else.

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Name one I ridiculed otherwise you are a liar.