Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

Wangchung said:

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Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

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Illegal low wage workers who work below legal minimum wage are in demand for low skilled jobs. Without them, those jobs would pay more, even without minimum wage laws. If you support illegal invasion forces taking US jobs, you hate your fellow Americans.

Golem said:

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Wangchung said:

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Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

---

Illegal low wage workers who work below legal minimum wage are in demand for low skilled jobs. Without them, those jobs would pay more, even without minimum wage laws. If you support illegal invasion forces taking US jobs, you hate your fellow Americans.

---

If you support the state preventing employers and employees negotiating in an open market you hate capitalism. And this you hate America.

This is a fun game. Putin must be thrilled.

quash said:

---

Golem said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

---

Illegal low wage workers who work below legal minimum wage are in demand for low skilled jobs. Without them, those jobs would pay more, even without minimum wage laws. If you support illegal invasion forces taking US jobs, you hate your fellow Americans.

---

If you support the state preventing employers and employees negotiating in an open market you hate capitalism. And this you hate America.

This is a fun game. Putin must be thrilled.

---

You support illegal invasion forces stealing from American citizens. I support free market negotiation of citizen labor with citizen owners. You hate capitalism. You love foreign invasions that keep your fellow citizens in poverty.

Golem said:

---

quash said:

---

Golem said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

---

Illegal low wage workers who work below legal minimum wage are in demand for low skilled jobs. Without them, those jobs would pay more, even without minimum wage laws. If you support illegal invasion forces taking US jobs, you hate your fellow Americans.

---

If you support the state preventing employers and employees negotiating in an open market you hate capitalism. And this you hate America.

This is a fun game. Putin must be thrilled.

---

You support illegal invasion forces stealing from American citizens. I support free market negotiation of citizen labor with citizen owners. You hate capitalism. You love foreign invasions that keep your fellow citizens in poverty.

---

You support the status quo: state interference in the job market.

I support a reform of immigration policy that allows workers with a job the right to enter and work.

I said as much earlier in this thread

You don't have to lie to make a point, just be best.

quash said:

---

Golem said:

---

quash said:

---

Golem said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Low WAGE workers are in demand. Let's be honest.

---

Illegal low wage workers who work below legal minimum wage are in demand for low skilled jobs. Without them, those jobs would pay more, even without minimum wage laws. If you support illegal invasion forces taking US jobs, you hate your fellow Americans.

---

If you support the state preventing employers and employees negotiating in an open market you hate capitalism. And this you hate America.

This is a fun game. Putin must be thrilled.

---

You support illegal invasion forces stealing from American citizens. I support free market negotiation of citizen labor with citizen owners. You hate capitalism. You love foreign invasions that keep your fellow citizens in poverty.

---

You support the status quo: state interference in the job market.

I support a reform of immigration policy that allows workers with a job the right to enter and work.

I said as much earlier in this thread

You don't have to lie to make a point, just be best.

---

stopping an invasion doesn't disrupt a labor market anymore than a narcotics market.

Advocating immigration reform is not hating America.

"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime. This stems largely from data constraints. Going beyond existing research, we utilize data from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which checks and records the immigration status of all arrestees throughout the state. Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future.
Abstract
We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as "undocumented" at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117


Illegal aliens behave better than native Texans. I know facts and data arent as fun as questioning a posters education or ranting and raving about lies. Its not near as dramatic or fun.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime.

---

Advocating for illegal invasion is indeed hating Americans. You hate your fellow countrymen. Illegals don't behave better than Texans. Your own Advocacy article admits up front that it's just useless conjecture. Good work, Senior Goebels.

Golem said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime.

---

Advocating for illegal invasion is indeed hating Americans. You hate your fellow countrymen. Illegals don't behave better than Texans. Your own Advocacy article admits up front that it's just useless conjecture. Good work, Senior Goebels.

---

The stats say they do. I advocate for immigration reform, not illegal invasion.. Your name calling is hilarious.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Golem said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime.

---

Advocating for illegal invasion is indeed hating Americans. You hate your fellow countrymen. Illegals don't behave better than Texans. Your own Advocacy article admits up front that it's just useless conjecture. Good work, Senior Goebels.

---

The stats say they do. I advocate for immigration reform, not illegal invasion.. Your name calling is hilarious.

---

The stats that admit they lack even basic information. Right. You advocate for illegal invasion at the expense of your fellow citizens. You hate Americans.

I try not to hate anyone. . Do you think you could point out where I advocate for illegal invasion? I

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I try not to hate anyone. . Do you think you could point out where I advocate for illegal invasion? I

---

You constantly advocate unrealistic, notions of ' let all of those looking for work come here ' .

Ignoring the realities of the numbers coming in, the potential for the numbers to increase even further as time goes by , the lack of even basic employable skills of the vast majority ....and the fact that the US will be responsible to provide food, shelter and medical care for all of these millions of individuals .


As an educated school administrator ....you certainly realize the silly game you are playing here.

Guess its your idea of amusement .

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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The first article I posted states there are 2.8 million fewer Americans working. It goes on to discuss the labor shortage in America. One of the other posters talked about the declining population of workers in America. I gave stats. I included a personal experience .of witnessing the labor shortage here in NC.

So when I want to make a point it doesnt matter if I give anecdotal evidence like you do or use statistics from the US Chamber of Commerce.

You asked a question and I showed you the answer. There are jobs. People (or invaders) wouldnt be risking their lives if there were no jobs to be found. They want to work and gain citizenship.

---

You have traveled enough to know....first hand....... of the conditions throughout Mexico and central America .

You KNOW...without a doubt ...it is impossible for ANY country to employ the tens of millions under employed individuals throughout Mexico and central America . No country on earth could indefinitely employ the tens of millions reaching employment age throughout central America ...every single year.

So why you insist on playing this little game....I have never understood .

My farm was located ONE MILE from the international border ....and I never hired a single 'wet'.

You simply could not put a man worth 2 dollars an hour on a piece of machinery worth over 100k and expect things to work out .

Nothing has changed ....SKILLS are needed for employment .

Meanwhile these people do whatever is necessary to survive........including criminal activity . And no one knows this little piece of reality more than legal Mexican Americans living within 300 miles of the border.

---

I dont remember saying America could or should try to hire 2 million or the more recent 10s of millions workers from foreign countries. I am saying we need immigration reform that makes it easier for people that want to work to come to America and work. Intake can be adjusted yearly depending on need. You have been around long enough to know you dont hire everyone that applies. You hire what you need. According to the articles I posted and a few other posters America needs more workers.

I probably have hired illegals. The leader of the fencing crew I usually used was an American but the men he hired were probably illegal. They worked There English was not very good. I have also hired 10 or 15 J1 workers. A few stayed and worked in America long enough to get their green card and then permanent residence.

I know its different but I worked for 8 years in 4 foreign countries (UAE China Thailand and Laos) without being able to sign my name in their language. If speaking proper English were a requirement for all jobs in America the Americans I saw at the WaffleHouse here in Rocky Mount NC yesterday would be in trouble.

Many of the jobs on President Trumps "essential workers" list are jobs often filled by illegal workers

---

That part in bold is a common business model. Know several in construction trades. They are subcontractors and the citizen/owner pays all the taxes on the wages, then hands out cash to the workers (who don't have any withholdings at all). Biggest part of the difficulty with that model is that the true illegal worker types of old typically don't stay here permanently. They want to work 60 hours a week or so Feb-Nov, then take off & go home for Dec-Jan. Again, know a few. And of course for the legal ones (green card) it's like clockwork. Do not plan work for Dec-Jan because they are not going to be here. They are working here to build a future in Mexico. Know a couple of those. The key to that model is the owner, who is fluent in Spanish and usually has contacts in a particular town or region of Mexico that got him started, made him a name as the Jefe to go find to get job upon arriving in USA. Most of his pool of workers are regulars, at least for a period of years, and they help recruit their own replacements.

The refugee flows of the last decade, however, are different. Yes, they want to work, but they are not coming here temporarily. They want to stay. And they tend to be illiterate. They sign up for every state & federal assistance program available, and indeed many are coached on how to do it by NGOs. (some reporting on that, but not much.) I'd be stunned if the Cartels weren't also coaching & getting a cut of the entitlement programs. (Zero reporting on that, but a protection racket is a protection racket, so it IS happening, we just don't know the degree.)

a decade ago, I saw several studies from reputable outlets that pretty consistently showed 20-25% of household income for illegals was state/federal assistance programs. Most people do not realize that IRS does not work the citizenship angle at all. It just collects taxes. So if an illegal files a tax return and is eligible for EITC, for example, EITC is paid. That is all another example of how rule of law is the true victim. One part of the government is desperately trying to stop illegals, without support of a proper barrier (wall) or military equipment or effective rules of engagement, while another arm of government is handing out entitlement programs to any illegals who escape.

That means we are not just encouraging the flow of illegal aliens. We are subsidizing it. We are subsidizing people we ostensibly are trying to stop from entering the country. So wasting money. And, of course, there is the "public charge" exception to legal immigration. One of the barriers a legal immigrant must clear is proving they are mentally sound, physically healthy, and of such character and possessing of such skills as to guarantee they will not fall into dependence on public assistance. Makes sense. Why would we import someone who cannot pull their weight? We import immigrants to become productive citizens, right? Well, over time, bureaucratic rule-making has evolved toward defining away nearly all the criteria a to qualify for public charge. When I was getting the consular commission, it was explained by instructors that unemployment checks did not render a green card holder a public charge....after all, an economic downturn was not the green card holders fault, and we did not want to be deport everyone who lost a job for what would be a few months until things turned around. that I'm quite sure today, green card holders get EITC checks and more without being subject to deportation. After all, we pay EITC to illegals, so why would we not pay it to legals, too?

If the American people really understood how fare we have gone down the rabbit hole of craziness, they're be pitchforks in the streets. But we do NOT have open borders. UNDERSTAND!

whiterock said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

The first article I posted states there are 2.8 million fewer Americans working. It goes on to discuss the labor shortage in America. One of the other posters talked about the declining population of workers in America. I gave stats. I included a personal experience .of witnessing the labor shortage here in NC.

So when I want to make a point it doesnt matter if I give anecdotal evidence like you do or use statistics from the US Chamber of Commerce.

You asked a question and I showed you the answer. There are jobs. People (or invaders) wouldnt be risking their lives if there were no jobs to be found. They want to work and gain citizenship.

---

You have traveled enough to know....first hand....... of the conditions throughout Mexico and central America .

You KNOW...without a doubt ...it is impossible for ANY country to employ the tens of millions under employed individuals throughout Mexico and central America . No country on earth could indefinitely employ the tens of millions reaching employment age throughout central America ...every single year.

So why you insist on playing this little game....I have never understood .

My farm was located ONE MILE from the international border ....and I never hired a single 'wet'.

You simply could not put a man worth 2 dollars an hour on a piece of machinery worth over 100k and expect things to work out .

Nothing has changed ....SKILLS are needed for employment .

Meanwhile these people do whatever is necessary to survive........including criminal activity . And no one knows this little piece of reality more than legal Mexican Americans living within 300 miles of the border.

---

I dont remember saying America could or should try to hire 2 million or the more recent 10s of millions workers from foreign countries. I am saying we need immigration reform that makes it easier for people that want to work to come to America and work. Intake can be adjusted yearly depending on need. You have been around long enough to know you dont hire everyone that applies. You hire what you need. According to the articles I posted and a few other posters America needs more workers.

I probably have hired illegals. The leader of the fencing crew I usually used was an American but the men he hired were probably illegal. They worked There English was not very good. I have also hired 10 or 15 J1 workers. A few stayed and worked in America long enough to get their green card and then permanent residence.

I know its different but I worked for 8 years in 4 foreign countries (UAE China Thailand and Laos) without being able to sign my name in their language. If speaking proper English were a requirement for all jobs in America the Americans I saw at the WaffleHouse here in Rocky Mount NC yesterday would be in trouble.

Many of the jobs on President Trumps "essential workers" list are jobs often filled by illegal workers

---

That part in bold is a common business model. Know several in construction trades. They are subcontractors and the citizen/owner pays all the taxes on the wages, then hands out cash to the workers (who don't have any withholdings at all). Biggest part of the difficulty with that model is that the true illegal worker types of old typically don't stay here permanently. They want to work 60 hours a week or so Feb-Nov, then take off & go home for Dec-Jan. Again, know a few. And of course for the legal ones (green card) it's like clockwork. Do not plan work for Dec-Jan because they are not going to be here. They are working here to build a future in Mexico. Know a couple of those. The key to that model is the owner, who is fluent in Spanish and usually has contacts in a particular town or region of Mexico that got him started, made him a name as the Jefe to go find to get job upon arriving in USA. Most of his pool of workers are regulars, at least for a period of years, and they help recruit their own replacements.

The refugee flows of the last decade, however, are different. Yes, they want to work, but they are not coming here temporarily. They want to stay. And they tend to be illiterate. They sign up for every state & federal assistance program available, and indeed many are coached on how to do it by NGOs. (some reporting on that, but not much.) I'd be stunned if the Cartels weren't also coaching & getting a cut of the entitlement programs. (Zero reporting on that, but a protection racket is a protection racket, so it IS happening, we just don't know the degree.)

a decade ago, I saw several studies from reputable outlets that pretty consistently showed 20-25% of household income for illegals was state/federal assistance programs. Most people do not realize that IRS does not work the citizenship angle at all. It just collects taxes. So if an illegal files a tax return and is eligible for EITC, for example, EITC is paid. That is all another example of how rule of law is the true victim. One part of the government is desperately trying to stop illegals, without support of a proper barrier (wall) or military equipment or effective rules of engagement, while another arm of government is handing out entitlement programs to any illegals who escape.

That means we are not just encouraging the flow of illegal aliens. We are subsidizing it. We are subsidizing people we ostensibly are trying to stop from entering the country. So wasting money. And, of course, there is the "public charge" exception to legal immigration. One of the barriers a legal immigrant must clear is proving they are mentally sound, physically healthy, and of such character and possessing of such skills as to guarantee they will not fall into dependence on public assistance. Makes sense. Why would we import someone who cannot pull their weight? We import immigrants to become productive citizens, right? Well, over time, bureaucratic rule-making has evolved toward defining away nearly all the criteria a to qualify for public charge. When I was getting the consular commission, it was explained by instructors that unemployment checks did not render a green card holder a public charge....after all, an economic downturn was not the green card holders fault, and we did not want to be deport everyone who lost a job for what would be a few months until things turned around. that I'm quite sure today, green card holders get EITC checks and more without being subject to deportation. After all, we pay EITC to illegals, so why would we not pay it to legals, too?

If the American people really understood how fare we have gone down the rabbit hole of craziness, they're be pitchforks in the streets. But we do NOT have open borders. UNDERSTAND!

---

Good information .

Highly accurate.

Still won't matter in the slightest to those who enjoy the prospect of flooding the US with illegals .

Hiring my longtime fence contractor again tomorrow. Know for a fact that he does not hire illegals . However I suspect my concrete sub contractor does .

Yes, these illegals grab every federal benefit they can ….why wouldn't they ? US taxpayers are footing the bill and the illegals enjoy a better quality of life than back in central America .

However it is financially and physically impossible to feed, shelter and provide medical care to the ever increasing millions of underemployed people throughout central and South America .

Sooner or later we have to enforce existing immigration laws or face the possibility of paying for the subsistence of tens of millions of unskilled individuals..

As there are simply not an unlimited amount of jobs available in agriculture or construction.

Reforming immigration isnt the same as "flooding the market with illegals". I advocate legalizing more prospective workers I never said let everyone in. You misquoted me there too. So you misquote me twice then ridicule me for things I didnt say. Heck of an argument.

Lets build build a better wall. This last one is a boondoggle and waste of taxpayers and military money. Get more guns and planes. BTW, drugs come through in ships boats planes cars and trucks. The wall does nothing to deter the cartels. Jose buys a 30 ft. ladder at Walmart and laughs.

I will stop. Yall keep on advocating the status quo while politicians on both sides play. Support the cartels with a failed "war on drugs". Drive the prices up fpr low wage work. Americans pay for that. I hadnt been on the East coast for several years and am shocked at the prices.

God bless America. Dems and Repubs sure arent. Lets keep trying things that fail while we swirl down the drain.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Reforming immigration isnt the same as "flooding the market with illegals". I advocate legalizing more prospective workers I never said let everyone in. You misquoted me there too. So you misquote me twice then ridicule me for things I didnt say. Heck of an argument.

Lets build build a better wall. This last one is a boondoggle and waste of taxpayers and military money. Get more guns and planes. BTW, drugs come through in ships boats planes cars and trucks. The wall does nothing to deter the cartels. Jose buys a 30 ft. ladder at Walmart and laughs.

I will stop. Yall keep on advocating the status quo while politicians on both sides play. Support the cartels with a failed "war on drugs". Drive the prices up fpr low wage work. Americans pay for that. I hadnt been on the East coast for several years and am shocked at the prices.

God bless America. Dems and Repubs sure arent. Lets keep trying things that fail while we swirl down the drain.

---

Again....you never address the facts of the situation. We simply can not absorb the ever increasing unemployed populations of an entire continent and then pay for their survival here . It doesn't make the least sense .



One of these years I wish you'd finally explain why you so deeply desire to turn the US into the nightmare that possess 90% of central America .

Catholic Social Teaching on Immigration and the Movement of Peoples

First Principle: People have the right to migrate to sustain their lives and the lives of their families.

At the end of World War II, with the fall of the Nazi empire and the subsequent creation of the Soviet "Iron Curtain," Europe faced an unprecedented migration of millions of people seeking safety, food, and freedom. At that time, Pope Pius XII wrote Exsul Familia (The Emigre Family), placing the Church squarely on the side of those seeking a better life by fleeing their homes.

When there is a massive movement of people such as during a war, natural disaster, or famine, the lands that receive these displaced people may be threatened. The influx may make it impossible for the native population to live securely, as the land may not have enough resources to support both. Even in more orderly migrations, such as in the United States, citizens and residents of the land may fear that newcomers will take jobs, land, and resources, impoverishing the people already present.

Because of the belief that newcomers compete for scarce resources, immigrants and refugees are at times driven away, resented, or despised. Nevertheless, the first principle of Catholic social teaching regarding immigrants is that people have the right to migrate to sustain their lives and the lives of their families. This is based on biblical and ancient Christian teaching that the goods of the earth belong to all people. While the right to private property is defended in Catholic social teaching, individuals do not have the right to use private property without regard for the common good.

Every person has an equal right to receive from the earth what is necessary for lifefood, clothing, shelter. Moreover, every person has the right to education, medical care, religion, and the expression of one's culture. In many places people live in fear, danger, or dehumanizing poverty. Clearly, it is not God's will that some of his children live in luxury while others have nothing. In Luke's Gospel, the rich man was condemned for living well while the poor man starved at his doorstep (Lk 16:19-31).

The native does not have superior rights over the immigrant. Before God all are equal; the earth was given by God to all. When a person cannot achieve a meaningful life in his or her own land, that person has the right to move.

Second Principle: A country has the right to regulate its borders and to control immigration.

The overriding principle of all Catholic social teaching is that individuals must make economic, political, and social decisions not out of shortsighted self-interest, but with regard for the common good. That means that a moral person cannot consider only what is good for his or her own self and family, but must act with the good of all people as his or her guiding principle.

While individuals have the right to move in search of a safe and humane life, no country is bound to accept all those who wish to resettle there. By this principle the Church recognizes that most immigration is ultimately not something to celebrate. Ordinarily, people do not leave the security of their own land and culture just to seek adventure in a new place or merely to enhance their standard of living. Instead, they migrate because they are desperate and the opportunity for a safe and secure life does not exist in their own land. Immigrants and refugees endure many hardships and often long for the homes they left behind. As Americans we should cherish and celebrate the contributions of immigrants and their cultures; however, we should work to make it unnecessary for people to leave their own land.

Because there seems to be no end to poverty, war, and misery in the world, developed nations will continue to experience pressure from many peoples who desire to resettle in their lands. Catholic social teaching is realistic: While people have the right to move, no country has the duty to receive so many immigrants that its social and economic life are jeopardized.

For this reason, Catholics should not view the work of the federal government and its immigration control as negative or evil. Those who work to enforce our nation's immigration laws often do so out of a sense of loyalty to the common good and compassion for poor people seeking a better life. In an ideal world, there would be no need for immigration control. The Church recognizes that this ideal world has not yet been achieved.

Third Principle: A country must regulate its borders with justice and mercy.

The second principle of Catholic social teaching may seem to negate the first principle. However, principles one and two must be understood in the context of principle three. And all Catholic social teaching must be understood in light of the absolute equality of all people and the commitment to the common good.

A country's regulation of borders and control of immigration must be governed by concern for all people and by mercy and justice. A nation may not simply decide that it wants to provide for its own people and no others. A sincere commitment to the needs of all must prevail.

In our modern world where communication and travel are much easier, the burden of emergencies cannot be placed solely on nations immediately adjacent to the crises. Justice dictates that the world community contribute resources toward shelter, food, med
ical services, and basic welfare.

Even in the case of less urgent migrations, a developed nation's right to limit immigration must be based on justice, mercy, and the common good, not on self-interest. Moreover, immigration policy ought to take into account other important values such as the right of families to live together. A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

Undocumented immigrants present a special concern. Often their presence is considered criminal since they arrive without legal permission. Under the harshest view, undocumented people may be regarded as undeserving of rights or services. This is not the view of Catholic social teaching. The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs metfood, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. Undocumented persons are particularly vulnerable to exploitation by employers, and they are not able to complain because of the fear of discovery and deportation. Current immigration policy that criminalizes the mere attempt to immigrate and imprisons immigrants who have committed no crime or who have already served a just sentence for a crime is immoral. In the Bible, God promises that our judgment will be based on our treatment of the most vulnerable. Before God we cannot excuse inhumane treatment of certain persons by claiming that their lack of legal status deprives them of rights given by the Creator.

Finally, immigration policy that allows people to live here and contribute to society for years but refuses to offer them the opportunity to achieve legal status does not serve the common good. The presence of millions of people living without easy access to basic human rights and necessities is a great injustice.

It is the position of the Catholic Church that pastoral, educational, medical, and social services provided by the Church are never conditioned on legal status. All persons are invited to participate in our parishes, attend our schools, and receive other services offered by our institutions and programs.

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/catholic-teaching-on-immigration-and-the-movement-of-peoples

I advocate immigration reform. Like me, this states that a country does have a right to determine the number the number of immigrants it accepts. We have a labor shortage, we can accept more immigrants.

As a history student I know you are familiar with the immigration boom of Catholics in the late 1800s. The Catholic denomination in America grew from 5% to 17%. Many Americans made the same arguments being made today. These people are not drug dealers murderers rapists or yankees . The vast majority are humans looking to feed their families.

I do not advocate unlimited or uncontrolled immigration. I do not want or expect 90% of South and Central America migrate here. If we foster the ones that want to work we will not be paying for them. They will be able to care for themselves.

https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-support/foodstamps/ Lots of facts here

Went to South Padre Island, TX for 4th of July weekend. Stopped at our regular truck stop/ convenience store in Riviera , TX which is about 30 miles north of the border check station in Sarita, TX. There were DOZENS of migrants there. Many were just eating outside. Many were packed inside the bathroom. We felt uncomfortable and left. I was shocked at this. I think the U.S. Border Patrol has given up at this point.

Just as abortion isn't a religious issue, immigration, tax rates, social spending, defense and EVERY OTHER ISSUE is not religious in nature. The Vatican is a country and can enforce its own laws and tear down its own giant wall.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Advocating immigration reform is not hating America.

"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime. This stems largely from data constraints. Going beyond existing research, we utilize data from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which checks and records the immigration status of all arrestees throughout the state. Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future.
Abstract
We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as "undocumented" at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime."

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117


Illegal aliens behave better than native Texans. I know facts and data arent as fun as questioning a posters education or ranting and raving about lies. Its not near as dramatic or fun.

---

Thank you

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Golem said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime.

---

Advocating for illegal invasion is indeed hating Americans. You hate your fellow countrymen. Illegals don't behave better than Texans. Your own Advocacy article admits up front that it's just useless conjecture. Good work, Senior Goebels.

---

The stats say they do. I advocate for immigration reform, not illegal invasion.. Your name calling is hilarious.

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You are correct quash

Waco1947 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Golem said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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"Despite its centrality to public and political discourse, we lack even basic information on fundamental questions regarding undocumented immigrants and crime.

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Advocating for illegal invasion is indeed hating Americans. You hate your fellow countrymen. Illegals don't behave better than Texans. Your own Advocacy article admits up front that it's just useless conjecture. Good work, Senior Goebels.

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The stats say they do. I advocate for immigration reform, not illegal invasion.. Your name calling is hilarious.

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You are correct quash

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No he's LIQR

so how do we make people have more babies?

Golem said:

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Just as abortion isn't a religious issue, immigration, tax rates, social spending, defense and EVERY OTHER ISSUE is not religious in nature. The Vatican is a country and can enforce its own laws and tear down its own giant wall.

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man, I thought Russia had shut down this bot. good to see you, sir!

bularry said:

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Golem said:

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Just as abortion isn't a religious issue, immigration, tax rates, social spending, defense and EVERY OTHER ISSUE is not religious in nature. The Vatican is a country and can enforce its own laws and tear down its own giant wall.

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man, I thought Russia had shut down this bot. good to see you, sir!

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LOL, okay

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Catholic Social Teaching on Immigration and the Movement of Peoples

First Principle: People have the right to migrate to sustain their lives and the lives of their families.

At the end of World War II, with the fall of the Nazi empire and the subsequent creation of the Soviet "Iron Curtain," Europe faced an unprecedented migration of millions of people seeking safety, food, and freedom. At that time, Pope Pius XII wrote Exsul Familia (The Emigre Family), placing the Church squarely on the side of those seeking a better life by fleeing their homes.

When there is a massive movement of people such as during a war, natural disaster, or famine, the lands that receive these displaced people may be threatened. The influx may make it impossible for the native population to live securely, as the land may not have enough resources to support both. Even in more orderly migrations, such as in the United States, citizens and residents of the land may fear that newcomers will take jobs, land, and resources, impoverishing the people already present.

Because of the belief that newcomers compete for scarce resources, immigrants and refugees are at times driven away, resented, or despised. Nevertheless, the first principle of Catholic social teaching regarding immigrants is that people have the right to migrate to sustain their lives and the lives of their families. This is based on biblical and ancient Christian teaching that the goods of the earth belong to all people. While the right to private property is defended in Catholic social teaching, individuals do not have the right to use private property without regard for the common good.

Every person has an equal right to receive from the earth what is necessary for lifefood, clothing, shelter. Moreover, every person has the right to education, medical care, religion, and the expression of one's culture. In many places people live in fear, danger, or dehumanizing poverty. Clearly, it is not God's will that some of his children live in luxury while others have nothing. In Luke's Gospel, the rich man was condemned for living well while the poor man starved at his doorstep (Lk 16:19-31).

The native does not have superior rights over the immigrant. Before God all are equal; the earth was given by God to all. When a person cannot achieve a meaningful life in his or her own land, that person has the right to move.

Second Principle: A country has the right to regulate its borders and to control immigration.

The overriding principle of all Catholic social teaching is that individuals must make economic, political, and social decisions not out of shortsighted self-interest, but with regard for the common good. That means that a moral person cannot consider only what is good for his or her own self and family, but must act with the good of all people as his or her guiding principle.

While individuals have the right to move in search of a safe and humane life, no country is bound to accept all those who wish to resettle there. By this principle the Church recognizes that most immigration is ultimately not something to celebrate. Ordinarily, people do not leave the security of their own land and culture just to seek adventure in a new place or merely to enhance their standard of living. Instead, they migrate because they are desperate and the opportunity for a safe and secure life does not exist in their own land. Immigrants and refugees endure many hardships and often long for the homes they left behind. As Americans we should cherish and celebrate the contributions of immigrants and their cultures; however, we should work to make it unnecessary for people to leave their own land.

Because there seems to be no end to poverty, war, and misery in the world, developed nations will continue to experience pressure from many peoples who desire to resettle in their lands. Catholic social teaching is realistic: While people have the right to move, no country has the duty to receive so many immigrants that its social and economic life are jeopardized.

For this reason, Catholics should not view the work of the federal government and its immigration control as negative or evil. Those who work to enforce our nation's immigration laws often do so out of a sense of loyalty to the common good and compassion for poor people seeking a better life. In an ideal world, there would be no need for immigration control. The Church recognizes that this ideal world has not yet been achieved.

Third Principle: A country must regulate its borders with justice and mercy.

The second principle of Catholic social teaching may seem to negate the first principle. However, principles one and two must be understood in the context of principle three. And all Catholic social teaching must be understood in light of the absolute equality of all people and the commitment to the common good.

A country's regulation of borders and control of immigration must be governed by concern for all people and by mercy and justice. A nation may not simply decide that it wants to provide for its own people and no others. A sincere commitment to the needs of all must prevail.

In our modern world where communication and travel are much easier, the burden of emergencies cannot be placed solely on nations immediately adjacent to the crises. Justice dictates that the world community contribute resources toward shelter, food, med
ical services, and basic welfare.

Even in the case of less urgent migrations, a developed nation's right to limit immigration must be based on justice, mercy, and the common good, not on self-interest. Moreover, immigration policy ought to take into account other important values such as the right of families to live together. A merciful immigration policy will not force married couples or children to live separated from their families for long periods.

Undocumented immigrants present a special concern. Often their presence is considered criminal since they arrive without legal permission. Under the harshest view, undocumented people may be regarded as undeserving of rights or services. This is not the view of Catholic social teaching. The Catholic Church teaches that every person has basic human rights and is entitled to have basic human needs metfood, shelter, clothing, education, and health care. Undocumented persons are particularly vulnerable to exploitation by employers, and they are not able to complain because of the fear of discovery and deportation. Current immigration policy that criminalizes the mere attempt to immigrate and imprisons immigrants who have committed no crime or who have already served a just sentence for a crime is immoral. In the Bible, God promises that our judgment will be based on our treatment of the most vulnerable. Before God we cannot excuse inhumane treatment of certain persons by claiming that their lack of legal status deprives them of rights given by the Creator.

Finally, immigration policy that allows people to live here and contribute to society for years but refuses to offer them the opportunity to achieve legal status does not serve the common good. The presence of millions of people living without easy access to basic human rights and necessities is a great injustice.

It is the position of the Catholic Church that pastoral, educational, medical, and social services provided by the Church are never conditioned on legal status. All persons are invited to participate in our parishes, attend our schools, and receive other services offered by our institutions and programs.

https://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/immigration/catholic-teaching-on-immigration-and-the-movement-of-peoples

I advocate immigration reform. Like me, this states that a country does have a right to determine the number the number of immigrants it accepts. We have a labor shortage, we can accept more immigrants.

As a history student I know you are familiar with the immigration boom of Catholics in the late 1800s. The Catholic denomination in America grew from 5% to 17%. Many Americans made the same arguments being made today. These people are not drug dealers murderers rapists or yankees . The vast majority are humans looking to feed their families.

I do not advocate unlimited or uncontrolled immigration. I do not want or expect 90% of South and Central America migrate here. If we foster the ones that want to work we will not be paying for them. They will be able to care for themselves.

https://www.nilc.org/issues/economic-support/foodstamps/ Lots of facts here

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For the 20th time you are ignoring the realities of the situation .

1. Poverty is horrible throughout central America and very likely to to get worse.
2. Populations throughout central America have increased dramatically over the last century and are likely to continue expanding .
3. The only 'release valve '...the only option for millions of these people is to somehow...someway gain entry into the United States..
4. Once IN the United States these millions will depend on Federal handouts to survive as the majority of these illegals are unskilled ...without even the ability to read, write and speak the language .

5. Legal visitors overstaying the terms of their visas are ALREADY a major source of our illegal alien problem.

WHAT WOULD BE ANY DIFFERENT WITH MILLIONS OVERSTAYING THEIR WORK VISAS ?


Nothing...absolutely nothing would be different .

And NO country on earth can feed, house and provide medical care for the expanding population of an entire CONTINENT . Its ludicrous to pretend otherwise. But you do enjoy your games.


BTW I resent your bizarre attempt to bring my Catholic faith into this discussion . For what its worth I have discussed this topic with archbishop of Denver.

He strongly believes our country's immigration laws should be enforced.

I brought up the Catholic view of immigration because I thought it was well thought out and worth reading. I mentioned that you are student of history.

Sorry if you took it as too personal.

I have never said any law should not be followed. I have said they need to be reformed. I have never said America needs to feed a continent. I have said we can do a better job of controlling illegals and overstays through a strong system that monitors visas.

You argue against things I have never said.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/restoring-rule-law-fair-humane-workable-immigration-system/

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I brought up the Catholic view of immigration because I thought it was well thought out and worth reading. I mentioned that you are student of history.

Sorry if you took it as too personal.

I have never said any law should not be followed. I have said they need to be reformed. I have never said America needs to feed a continent. I have said we can do a better job of controlling illegals and overstays through a strong system that monitors visas.

You argue against things I have never said.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/restoring-rule-law-fair-humane-workable-immigration-system/

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If the government is not capable of deporting the thousands who willfully over stay their travel visas every single year .......

explain to me ...specifically .......how this same government is going to oversee , regulate and when necessary ...deport additional MILLIONS on work visas ?

If the majority of these MILLIONS are not able to find employment because they are fundamentally unskilled.....are you ok with letting them starve ? Ok with letting them die without shelter ?

Or are you going to demand these MILLIONS be fed, and housed ?

We do not even take care of our homeless citizens . We do not even take care of our mentally ill.


Explain to me big guy........specifically ........how are we going to take care of additional MILLIONS .....coming every single year on work visas ?

Canada2017 said:

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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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I brought up the Catholic view of immigration because I thought it was well thought out and worth reading. I mentioned that you are student of history.

Sorry if you took it as too personal.

I have never said any law should not be followed. I have said they need to be reformed. I have never said America needs to feed a continent. I have said we can do a better job of controlling illegals and overstays through a strong system that monitors visas.

You argue against things I have never said.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/restoring-rule-law-fair-humane-workable-immigration-system/

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If the government is not capable of deporting the thousands who willfully over stay their travel visas every single year .......

explain to me ...specifically .......how this same government is going to oversee , regulate and when necessary ...deport additional MILLIONS on work visas ?

If the majority of these MILLIONS are not able to find employment because they are fundamentally unskilled.....are you ok with letting them starve ? Ok with letting them die without shelter ?

Or are you going to demand these MILLIONS be fed, and housed ?

We do not even take care of our homeless citizens . We do not even take care of our mentally ill.


Explain to me big guy........specifically ........how are we going to take care of additional MILLIONS .....coming every single year on work visas ?

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willfully negligent government

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Went to South Padre Island, TX for 4th of July weekend. Stopped at our regular truck stop/ convenience store in Riviera , TX which is about 30 miles north of the border check station in Sarita, TX. There were DOZENS of migrants there. Many were just eating outside. Many were packed inside the bathroom. We felt uncomfortable and left. I was shocked at this. I think the U.S. Border Patrol has given up at this point.

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They'd made it past the checkpoint and were exhausted, dehydrated, hungry. Go to Google Earth and run a line from Sarita to the border. Shortest straight line is 76miles, mostly thru ground the consistency of beach sand. We have active duty military that couldn't make that march on any given day. That's why hundreds of illegals die making the trip each year.

USBP hasn't given up. They're out of manpower. There are not enough agents to pick up all the illegals making the trip.

And that's the point. Cartels not only make money from charging for escort, but that escort ties up USBP resources which would otherwise be employed to stop drug smuggling. The illegals who pay $5-10k get to meet up with transportation north of the checkpoints. The ones who only have $1-3k will just get ferried across the river and dropped on US soil. It's the USBP that has to go pick up all those who get dropped off. It's the USBP that has to process and transport all the ones apprehended.

Cartels are making money creating the diversion that allows them to smuggle drugs.

Quite a racket they have going on.

Yes Cartels are amazig. If only there was a way America could stop feeding them...

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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Yes Cartels are amazig. If only there was a way America could stop feeding them...

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As always you ignore the realities .

According to Border Patrol agents ( oh I forgot, in your world such individuals don't know anything ) the 2nd biggest business of the Mexican drug cartels is human trafficking .


With Biden allowing such incursions the cartels are making millions.

You still haven't explained to me how our government .....who is completely unable to manage , regulate and deport those who overstay their visitor visas.......

is magically going to be able to manage , regulate and deport those MILLIONS of central Americans arriving every year on your work visas.

Whats their biggest business? You dont think taking away their biggest business would cripple them?

I never disparaged border workers. I pointed out you prefer using of individual stories and talks you have had with drs border patrol bishops policeman etc.

I know a country that is comprised of about 87% labor from other countries. The visitors (there is no path to citizenship) control the expats/temporary immigrantgs with strong Visa control. Non citizens (around 87%) cant have a bank acount go to school buy a car rent housing buy groceries get paid etc etc without presenting a valid visa. They are surrounded on several borders with poor countries. Of course America doesnt need or want anywhere near that % of migrant labor. While a greqt number of the immigrants are from unskilled labor from Nepal, Pakistan, India and Bangledesh, they also hire skilled and professional workers from America, South Africa, Canada Irelend and Britian.

They excercise tight control with their visa system While they do have immigration points at the airport and other entry points, they have not resorted to a huuge wall.

https://sojo.net/articles/how-united-arab-emirates-country-90-percent-immigrants-handles-immigration

One thing I can't believe gets little press is the rate of death by OD because of the Fentanyl coming in from the southern border.

In San Francisco an article in one of their extemely Progressive circulars documented how their death from OD numbers went from 70 something a year to over 700 in a 3 year span. This is more serious than mass shootings, because it is blowing up all over the US like this. But, gets little vitriol from the progressive left.

The one thing I've told my child is to never ever ever take drugs, you don't know where it originated and if it is laced with Fentanyl it can be a death sentence.

Used to you normally had to actually OD, to die from drug usage, now you may die from simply taking a normal dose laced with Fentanyl..

Very sad situation.

Quote:

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*Updated May 12, 2022 The nation's drug overdose epidemic continues to change and become worse. The epidemic affects every state and now is driven by illicit fentanyl, fentanyl analogs, methamphetamine, and cocaine, often in combination or in adulterated forms. More than 107,000 deaths were reported in the United States between December 2020 to December 2021. The AMA continues to urge policymakers' action to increase access to evidence-based care for substance use disorders, pain and harm reduction measures. The news articles and reports below cite data from multiple and varied sources, including national, state and local public health agencies, law enforcement, emergency medical services, hospitals, treatment centers, and journals. Recent AMA advocacy, resources and recommendations to end the epidemic:

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This is a horrific number, it is driven by fentanyl