That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
Haley, DeSantis, Other?
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Last: 1 yr ago by Cobretti
RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
That is where you guys are missing he calls himself the "Teddy Roosevelt" . He is a moderate on the environment, economic development and he is against an all out abortion ban.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
He is very much about policy. But, he knows where to push and where to go along. I compare him to George H.W. Bush, maybe its the Yale baseball thing.
"DeSantis knows how to fight the culture war as media combat, but more importantly, he knows how to fight the culture war as public policy," Christopher Rufo, the New Right's leading activist, wrote last Wednesday. "He lays out the agenda, passes the legislation, and governs the state. Substance is ultimately more important than style."
At a time when conservatives are pushing back against a totalitarian, global climate agenda, DeSantis established Florida's first Chief Resiliency Office to tackle climate change. His first appointee was Julia Nesheiwat, a member of both the World Economic Forum, as well as the Council on Foreign Relations. In addition, DeSantis signed climate resilience legislation
Despite seven governors rejecting COVID lockdowns, it was DeSantis alone as the model for COVID response, even though DeSantis did issue lockdowns. Despite seven governors banning indoctrination in the classroom, DeSantis received the bulk of the airtime with a phony "Don't Say Gay" campaign. Despite twenty-five U.S. states allowing the permitless carry of firearms, Florida still does not. Despite abortion being all but banned in twelve conservative states, the best DeSantis mustered was fifteen weeks.
Overall, he is conservative where he needs to be and I think he wins against whoever the Dems throw against him. I also think he would be very good at working policy through Congress. Those are my views with quotes. I am sure I am wrong, some pollster knows more!
i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
RMF5630 said:That is where you guys are missing he calls himself the "Teddy Roosevelt" . He is a moderate on the environment, economic development and he is against an all out abortion ban.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
He is very much about policy. But, he knows where to push and where to go along. I compare him to George H.W. Bush, maybe its the Yale baseball thing.
"DeSantis knows how to fight the culture war as media combat, but more importantly, he knows how to fight the culture war as public policy," Christopher Rufo, the New Right's leading activist, wrote last Wednesday. "He lays out the agenda, passes the legislation, and governs the state. Substance is ultimately more important than style."
At a time when conservatives are pushing back against a totalitarian, global climate agenda, DeSantis established Florida's first Chief Resiliency Office to tackle climate change. His first appointee was Julia Nesheiwat, a member of both the World Economic Forum, as well as the Council on Foreign Relations. In addition, DeSantis signed climate resilience legislation
Despite seven governors rejecting COVID lockdowns, it was DeSantis alone as the model for COVID response, even though DeSantis did issue lockdowns. Despite seven governors banning indoctrination in the classroom, DeSantis received the bulk of the airtime with a phony "Don't Say Gay" campaign. Despite twenty-five U.S. states allowing the permitless carry of firearms, Florida still does not. Despite abortion being all but banned in twelve conservative states, the best DeSantis mustered was fifteen weeks.
Overall, he is conservative where he needs to be and I think he wins against whoever the Dems throw against him. I also think he would be very good at working policy through Congress. Those are my views with quotes. I am sure I am wrong, some pollster knows more!
Fascinating. You describe yourself (apparently accurately) as a pragmatic conservative (itself a substantial caucus) who is more comfortable with the Bush-wing than the MAGA wing. Yet you cite Rufo, who fought (vigorously, brilliantly) exactly the kind of culture warfare that the Bush wing assiduously avoids. Then, Desantis engages in that culture warfare with great gusto, arguably with more energy than Trump, yet Trump is the problem. Trump also vigorously fought establishments in control of policy on climate change policy. Neither is there much daylight between the two on the other policy initiatives.
Beware the false premise. MAGA isn't some extreme wing of the GOP. It IS the GOP. Desantis is part of it. And he might be better at it that the progenitor of it. That he has a moderate like you on board while maintaining sky high favorability within almost all if the other facets of the GOP doesn't make him moderate or anything, certainly not anti-MAGA. It makes him a potentially rare thing a guy who can unify the party and bring in moderates without changing who he is or what he believes.
The primary will test if he can expand that nationally. And an eager nation awaits. Most people in the GOO would prefer a better version of Trump. But he has to prove he's not a flash in the pan.
Again, Republicans have had a relatively weak ground game for a while. If you want to find the problem, look at what changed.4th and Inches said:i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
Maybe we can agree on the following and stay away from labels.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:That is where you guys are missing he calls himself the "Teddy Roosevelt" . He is a moderate on the environment, economic development and he is against an all out abortion ban.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
He is very much about policy. But, he knows where to push and where to go along. I compare him to George H.W. Bush, maybe its the Yale baseball thing.
"DeSantis knows how to fight the culture war as media combat, but more importantly, he knows how to fight the culture war as public policy," Christopher Rufo, the New Right's leading activist, wrote last Wednesday. "He lays out the agenda, passes the legislation, and governs the state. Substance is ultimately more important than style."
At a time when conservatives are pushing back against a totalitarian, global climate agenda, DeSantis established Florida's first Chief Resiliency Office to tackle climate change. His first appointee was Julia Nesheiwat, a member of both the World Economic Forum, as well as the Council on Foreign Relations. In addition, DeSantis signed climate resilience legislation
Despite seven governors rejecting COVID lockdowns, it was DeSantis alone as the model for COVID response, even though DeSantis did issue lockdowns. Despite seven governors banning indoctrination in the classroom, DeSantis received the bulk of the airtime with a phony "Don't Say Gay" campaign. Despite twenty-five U.S. states allowing the permitless carry of firearms, Florida still does not. Despite abortion being all but banned in twelve conservative states, the best DeSantis mustered was fifteen weeks.
Overall, he is conservative where he needs to be and I think he wins against whoever the Dems throw against him. I also think he would be very good at working policy through Congress. Those are my views with quotes. I am sure I am wrong, some pollster knows more!
Fascinating. You describe yourself (apparently accurately) as a pragmatic conservative (itself a substantial caucus) who is more comfortable with the Bush-wing than the MAGA wing. Yet you cite Rufo, who fought (vigorously, brilliantly) exactly the kind of culture warfare that the Bush wing assiduously avoids. Then, Desantis engages in that culture warfare with great gusto, arguably with more energy than Trump, yet Trump is the problem. Trump also vigorously fought establishments in control of policy on climate change policy. Neither is there much daylight between the two on the other policy initiatives.
Beware the false premise. MAGA isn't some extreme wing of the GOP. It IS the GOP. Desantis is part of it. And he might be better at it that the progenitor of it. That he has a moderate like you on board while maintaining sky high favorability within almost all if the other facets of the GOP doesn't make him moderate or anything, certainly not anti-MAGA. It makes him a potentially rare thing a guy who can unify the party and bring in moderates without changing who he is or what he believes.
The primary will test if he can expand that nationally. And an eager nation awaits. Most people in the GOO would prefer a better version of Trump. But he has to prove he's not a flash in the pan.
1 - DeSantis does fight the culture war with more gusto, but he picks and chooses what he attacks. The issues he takes on are to protect our freedoms and our kids right to grow up. That is something that people will view as a positive. It may be a perception thing, but Trump comes across self-serving and about him. DeSantis comes across as fighting the culture war for us.
2 - DeSantis knows he has to use the legislative process. He also knows how. So it does not look like he is blowing up our Constitution and legal/legislative processes. DeSantis works within the system, not threatening to destroy it. (Very similar to Abrams. We may dislike her and her politics but she knows how to use the system) This is how you get long term change, not rallies.
3 - DeSantis is an environmentalist, he sees himself as a modern Teddy Roosevelt.
You seem confused, 16 was the change not 20 or 22Sam Lowry said:Again, Republicans have had a relatively weak ground game for a while. If you want to find the problem, look at what changed.4th and Inches said:i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
You want to know what is going to kill Trump's Presidential chances? His mouth. He says too many untrue items that are easy to fact check and the media will take glee in fact checking him until everyone but his current fans believe him. Last night, his speech was filled with inaccuracies and easy to check. CNN runs it as a top story, see connection.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/politics/fact-check-trump-announcement-speech-2024/index.html
Saying that it doesn't matter will not cut it in another election. He is a nightmare of a candidate. He will sink GOP again. Watch.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/politics/fact-check-trump-announcement-speech-2024/index.html
Saying that it doesn't matter will not cut it in another election. He is a nightmare of a candidate. He will sink GOP again. Watch.
The more people know Trump, the less they like him.4th and Inches said:You seem confused, 16 was the change not 20 or 22Sam Lowry said:Again, Republicans have had a relatively weak ground game for a while. If you want to find the problem, look at what changed.4th and Inches said:i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
He is going to be a nightmare for the next 2 years. It is already starting. Two groups are suing to get him disqualified due to Jan 6th. Will they win? No, probably not. But it will suck all the oxygen and leave Biden to not be accountable for his disaster.Sam Lowry said:The more people know Trump, the less they like him.4th and Inches said:You seem confused, 16 was the change not 20 or 22Sam Lowry said:Again, Republicans have had a relatively weak ground game for a while. If you want to find the problem, look at what changed.4th and Inches said:i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trumps-2024-bid-hit-immediate-022600289.html
, the deviation returned to the standardSam Lowry said:The more people know Trump, the less they like him.4th and Inches said:You seem confused, 16 was the change not 20 or 22Sam Lowry said:Again, Republicans have had a relatively weak ground game for a while. If you want to find the problem, look at what changed.4th and Inches said:i see your point. We shouldnt be Blaming Trump for the candidate when in fact it was the GOPs weak AF ground game they lost the election.Sam Lowry said:That's the point. Blaming everything on Dems may be good propaganda, but it doesn't always make for good analysis.4th and Inches said:lol, they didnt invent it in 2022.. they have been building it since 2008. 2016 was an off year for the system but the growth of the system(rule changes) in 2020 and the new targeting algorithm they are using proved itself in 2022.Sam Lowry said:Amazing how the Dems just invented this get out the vote system in 2022, the same year the GOP happened to run a historically poor set of candidates.whiterock said:With respect, you are completely off target. The biggest part of the problem we face has not been discussed in these threads. And there is plenty of blame to go around within our party.RMF5630 said:At some point, the GOP has to take a stand. Do they back Trump and his crap or NOT. It is real simple and last week brought the question to a head. If the GOP goes into 24 like this, running these types of candidates. Dems will win again. Got to move to the center, not be in the center but move off of the ultra far right.whiterock said:if we let Dems get by with defeating Trump by indicting him on all kinds of contrived charges, why would they not use the same tactic on Ron DeSantis in 2024? It's not like pushing back against wokeness isn't without legal risk.....Oldbear83 said:Hell no. Charging Trump makes him a martyr and would embolden Democrats to get charges placed against anyone they feared.RMF5630 said:Oh, Yeah, he is going to go Sherman's March to the Sea on the US. He is done. The best we can hope for is one of the charges against him to stick and eliminate him from runningCanada2017 said:J.R. said:
Again, you MAGA clowns.... I'm just a simple guy. Here is what Trumpy has deliver for you guys. He lost, the Presidency , lost the Congress, lost the Senate and presided over the Red Wave that wasn't and he gives you Lake (she cray) and Hershel (he dumb). Nice that this is what Trump has delivered! pathetic . Go away, Fat Orange!
Fat Orange is just getting warmed up .
As Trump fades into political obscurity…..he will do everything possible to 'revenge ' himself on the Republican Party .
Going to be epic .
Trump goes away when no one responds to him. Your plan is 'pour gas on fire'.
And why, if successful with Trump, would Garland not do the same to stop Glenn Youngkin from getting re-elected? Or Kemp from defeating Ossoff in a Senate race?
The threat to democracy is a sitting AG personally signing an order, after publicly reported pressure from the WH, to raid the personal residence of a former POTUS over a question of document custody....DURING an election, for the purposes of ensuring that unpopular former POTUS would be an issue in the election. It's a breath-taking breach of political ethos.
We are, after all, Republicans,. Therefore, we are obligated to sit and take it.
I spoke yesterday with a long-time political friend who is Ex.Dir. for one of the largest conservative PACs in the country = 180m voter contacts this cycle. I had hoped to be able to speak with him while driving to DFW to catch a flight, but as things go...he was in a meeting, texted me back....and when he called back I was literally on the gangway boarding the plane, so we had a very compressed conversation. Given time constraints, I focused on what I thought were the key 2-3 issues.
Q: I am less concerned Biden or Fetterman or Katie Hobbs won their races than I am that they didn't even bother to campaign. Keeping Fetterman and Biden hidden had some justification, but Hobbs? In a hotly contested purple state? Is the Dem machine so good it can elect a notional candidate?
Answer: That is exactly it. Dems have built a machine of ostensibly non-partisan 501c3's organized around "get out the vote" activities, but in fact they only chase and organize key Democrat constituencies. Yes, we have such activities on the right (my friend's organization being one of them). But Dem efforts DWARF our own. They are spending nearly a billion dollars a cycle in just 7-8 states. They micro-target (a science invented by one K. Rove) very narrowly, just a few hundred thousand voters. Like "single, unmarried women." They use public data lists to find those voters, register them to vote. Then to talk to them, to make sure they get emails & texts on latest news that speaks to that voter's narrow concerns. Then, they help them get signed up to vote by mail, or reminded to vote early, or to vote on election day. $50m a year in GA, grinding a way to build up a bank of voters.
(remember what I said earlier...."you have to find your voters, talk to them, and mobilize them to vote.)
Dems raise the money to do this from mostly corporate donors: Google. Facebook, etc.... This money does not appear in published direct/indirect spending comparisons. (like below)Republican senate candidates in every swing state were heavily outspent (not including PAC money).
— Greg Price (@greg_price11) November 14, 2022
AZ
Kelly: $73M
Masters: $9M
NV
Cortez-Masto: $46M
Laxalt: $12M
NH
Hassen: $36M
Bolduc: $2M
PA
Fetterman: $52M
Oz: $37M
GA
Warnock: $75M
Walker: $32M
Q) So what's the hinderance to matching that on our side:
Most GOP donors want to give to candidates or McConnell, as a direct contribution. That gives them access for dialogue on legislation. When asked to direct some/all of their charitable donations to 501c3's to organize voters.....they just waive it off...."I've given enough." He mentioned one corporation in particular that gives most of its charity to the Girl Scouts. Fine cause, for sure. How many of us have had daughters who benefited from that organization? But Dems will routinely scale back the true charity for political activism. Not so Republicans. (comment: Republican businessmen are, as a rule, HORRIBLE at politics. There are exceptions, for sure, but they look at political capital the say way they look at financial capital, when in fact the two are wildly different things Cutting deals to get stuff done is good business, they think; standing on principle to fight for what you believe in is just not something a businessman can do. There is a balance sheet and an income statement that provide hard parameters for what is possible in business. The idea that the Overton Window is not set in concrete but is in fact a rubber thing that can be stretched and moved around is a concept they just wave off as nonsense.)
I could go on.....
Bottom line is, the case that Tuesday results were caused by MAGA is just wildly contrived. A primary endorsement is hardly the totality of a campaign. Trump's win/loss record outclasses that of any modern contemporary.
In being tough on Trump, we cannot spare the RNC. If, as sombear indicated, we really did hit the metrics the GOP machine in WDC thought we needed to hit, didn't the result clearly show the GOP machine was working inadequate metrics? (the Romney 2012 problem). And McConnell. Spending millions & millions in Alaska in a race where only a Republican could win, rather than dumping all that money into NV. Or into NH. Or into AZ..... You know, there can few better winks & nods to hard & soft money than to watch where the Leader spends and go thusly. So is it only Trump that starved off money from some of these campaigns?
We cannot get distracted with what we WANT the problem to be. (Trump or Establishment). We have to calm down and get granular repairs & constructions to win in 2024. That's what makes the Desantis win so intriguing. He's onto something.
My friend and I discussed Desantis a bit.
Q) Does Desantis understand that MAGA has to be wooed rather than cudgeled?
Answer: Indeed. Not only does he seem to be the only one who understands that, he's probably the only one who can do that.
Q) How good is his team? (consultants, etc.....)
Answer: The best, by far. Just as good as the candidate himself.
Q) Is Trump working the problem?
Answer: (Chuckle). Yes and no. He's always working. But he and his team see the task as one of brand identity. Everything serves that. And the poking & backstabbing he's gotten has only made him more distrustful of establishments not actually on his payroll.
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
You lost Independentswhiterock said:
You cannot win without getting your base whipped up into more of a fervor than the other guy.
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
The Republican Elite? Who exactly is that? Everyone that is a notch below Ultra-MAGA?Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:The Republican Elite? Who exactly is that? Everyone that is a notch below Ultra-MAGA?Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
Anyone that runs as GOP will be MAGA. Only person that wouldn't is Hogan.
"The more people know Trump read Sam's rants, the less they like himthem."
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
that's all good.RMF5630 said:Maybe we can agree on the following and stay away from labels.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:That is where you guys are missing he calls himself the "Teddy Roosevelt" . He is a moderate on the environment, economic development and he is against an all out abortion ban.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
He is very much about policy. But, he knows where to push and where to go along. I compare him to George H.W. Bush, maybe its the Yale baseball thing.
"DeSantis knows how to fight the culture war as media combat, but more importantly, he knows how to fight the culture war as public policy," Christopher Rufo, the New Right's leading activist, wrote last Wednesday. "He lays out the agenda, passes the legislation, and governs the state. Substance is ultimately more important than style."
At a time when conservatives are pushing back against a totalitarian, global climate agenda, DeSantis established Florida's first Chief Resiliency Office to tackle climate change. His first appointee was Julia Nesheiwat, a member of both the World Economic Forum, as well as the Council on Foreign Relations. In addition, DeSantis signed climate resilience legislation
Despite seven governors rejecting COVID lockdowns, it was DeSantis alone as the model for COVID response, even though DeSantis did issue lockdowns. Despite seven governors banning indoctrination in the classroom, DeSantis received the bulk of the airtime with a phony "Don't Say Gay" campaign. Despite twenty-five U.S. states allowing the permitless carry of firearms, Florida still does not. Despite abortion being all but banned in twelve conservative states, the best DeSantis mustered was fifteen weeks.
Overall, he is conservative where he needs to be and I think he wins against whoever the Dems throw against him. I also think he would be very good at working policy through Congress. Those are my views with quotes. I am sure I am wrong, some pollster knows more!
Fascinating. You describe yourself (apparently accurately) as a pragmatic conservative (itself a substantial caucus) who is more comfortable with the Bush-wing than the MAGA wing. Yet you cite Rufo, who fought (vigorously, brilliantly) exactly the kind of culture warfare that the Bush wing assiduously avoids. Then, Desantis engages in that culture warfare with great gusto, arguably with more energy than Trump, yet Trump is the problem. Trump also vigorously fought establishments in control of policy on climate change policy. Neither is there much daylight between the two on the other policy initiatives.
Beware the false premise. MAGA isn't some extreme wing of the GOP. It IS the GOP. Desantis is part of it. And he might be better at it that the progenitor of it. That he has a moderate like you on board while maintaining sky high favorability within almost all if the other facets of the GOP doesn't make him moderate or anything, certainly not anti-MAGA. It makes him a potentially rare thing a guy who can unify the party and bring in moderates without changing who he is or what he believes.
The primary will test if he can expand that nationally. And an eager nation awaits. Most people in the GOO would prefer a better version of Trump. But he has to prove he's not a flash in the pan.
1 - DeSantis does fight the culture war with more gusto, but he picks and chooses what he attacks. The issues he takes on are to protect our freedoms and our kids right to grow up. That is something that people will view as a positive. It may be a perception thing, but Trump comes across self-serving and about him. DeSantis comes across as fighting the culture war for us.
2 - DeSantis knows he has to use the legislative process. He also knows how. So it does not look like he is blowing up our Constitution and legal/legislative processes. DeSantis works within the system, not threatening to destroy it. (Very similar to Abrams. We may dislike her and her politics but she knows how to use the system) This is how you get long term change, not rallies.
3 - DeSantis is an environmentalist, he sees himself as a modern Teddy Roosevelt.
1) the true moderate GOP'er...from the Bushies all the way out across the center of the party, do not believe in spending political capital on culture wars. Partly, it's because they think they are losing propositions. Mostly, it's because they really don't believe terribly strongly in the various causes that comprise the war. You can take that all the way out to things that really aren't 'culture wars' like school choice, school vouchers, etc... The irony there, is that school choice/vouchers is a wildly popular notion, even in the middle and left side of the spectrum. It's the perfect wedge issue to peel off left-leaning independents. But moderate GOP'ers are afraid of the public school PACs. Watch the Tx lege this session. Let's see if it fails yet again.
2) that's one of his strongest points, at least for me. I think he is superior to Trump in understanding how to twist nuts & bolts to starve off leftist agendas from public money. Shocking amount of Dem party organizing is done with taxpayer money.
3) I'm not familiar with what he's done here but am am skeptical of all green agendas. Pure power plays, all. Nothing more than using govt edict to control capital. But this is an issue dems have used to peel off parts of the middle into their coalition, so we have to do something. I'll look forward to details.
They got some of Oso's money.Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
Consultants who can't win races always turn to grifting off of grievance, and the neverTrumper grift has provem more lucrative than most.
Funny you mention school vouchers. This article may help get that through, which I agree. I sent my kids to Catholic School.whiterock said:that's all good.RMF5630 said:Maybe we can agree on the following and stay away from labels.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:That is where you guys are missing he calls himself the "Teddy Roosevelt" . He is a moderate on the environment, economic development and he is against an all out abortion ban.whiterock said:RMF5630 said:Very consistent with what I am seeing living here. "Keep Florida Free" would be his T-Shirt/Hat, not MAGA.whiterock said:
Interesting commentary from The Economist:
on november 8th someone won the $2bn Powerball, the biggest-ever lottery prize. On the same day Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, won a different sort of jackpot. Voters re-elected him by a nearly 20-point marginthe widest by a Republican candidate for governor in Florida's modern history, and a stunning improvement from 2018, when Mr DeSantis won by just 0.4%, thanks to an endorsement by Donald Trump. Mr DeSantis is also the first Republican governor to win heavily Hispanic Miami-Dade County in 20 years. Attention has already turned to what comes next for him: "Two more years!" chanted supporters at his victory rallyurging him to make a bid for the White House in 2024. Mr DeSantis smiled.If Mr Trump runs again for president in 2024 (he has strongly hinted he could announce as early as next week), he may find himself pitted against Mr DeSantis in the Republican primary. Who is the favourite? Among Floridians, at least, Mr DeSantis appears to have the edge: even before his midterm victory, Data for Progress, a think-tank, polled likely Republican voters in the state and found that 44% said they would vote for him if the presidential primary were held tomorrow. Some 42% said they would support Mr Trump (see chart). Only 60% had a "very favourable" opinion of Mr Trump, compared with 87% who gave Mr DeSantis top marks.
The polling was limited to Floridians; though Florida has historically been an important swing state in presidential elections, primary voters in Iowa and New Hampshire will have a bigger say in picking the Republican nominee for 2024. Still, Mr DeSantis's relative popularity is remarkable in a state that Mr Trump won just two years ago, and currently lives in. The former president appears rattled. On November 10th Mr Trump issued a lengthy statement, calling Mr DeSantis an "average" politician who was in "desperate shape" during his first campaign in 2017until Mr Trump "fixed his campaign". He accused Mr DeSantis of "playing games" by refusing to rule out a presidential bid and warned him off running. Many Republicans disagree. After his re-election Mr DeSantis was dubbed "DeFUTURE" of the party by the New York Post, a conservative paper that endorsed Mr Trump in 2020.
Mr DeSantis has presented himself as Trump without the baggage. He shot to national attention during the covid-19 pandemic for opposing mandates for masks and vaccines. He shares Mr Trump's populist tendencies, publicly attacking the media and "woke" companies like Disney, and taking on culture-war issues, including the teaching of sex education and gender identity in classrooms. But unlike Mr Trump he has mostly steered clear of election denialism. "Keep Florida Free" has been Mr DeSantis's campaign mantra. But a rivalry with Mr Trump is not likely to be free of drama.
Election stuff is perfect example, he has not gotten into the election denial, DeSantis is more pragmatic than Trump or Reagan. HIs view is it does not matter if he agrees, it is what it is. But, if you notice, Florida's elections are run tight, laws are in place and outcomes are known next day. That is great example of DeSantis. His taking on Disney and hitting them in their Reedy Creek weak spot, is also a good example. I have no complaints with him at the wheel, he handled Pandemic and Ian very well.
A wide coalition of people like him, for a wide variety of reasons.
That's not be cause he moderated ion anything. He showed everyone that hard core conservatism offers superior governance
He is very much about policy. But, he knows where to push and where to go along. I compare him to George H.W. Bush, maybe its the Yale baseball thing.
"DeSantis knows how to fight the culture war as media combat, but more importantly, he knows how to fight the culture war as public policy," Christopher Rufo, the New Right's leading activist, wrote last Wednesday. "He lays out the agenda, passes the legislation, and governs the state. Substance is ultimately more important than style."
At a time when conservatives are pushing back against a totalitarian, global climate agenda, DeSantis established Florida's first Chief Resiliency Office to tackle climate change. His first appointee was Julia Nesheiwat, a member of both the World Economic Forum, as well as the Council on Foreign Relations. In addition, DeSantis signed climate resilience legislation
Despite seven governors rejecting COVID lockdowns, it was DeSantis alone as the model for COVID response, even though DeSantis did issue lockdowns. Despite seven governors banning indoctrination in the classroom, DeSantis received the bulk of the airtime with a phony "Don't Say Gay" campaign. Despite twenty-five U.S. states allowing the permitless carry of firearms, Florida still does not. Despite abortion being all but banned in twelve conservative states, the best DeSantis mustered was fifteen weeks.
Overall, he is conservative where he needs to be and I think he wins against whoever the Dems throw against him. I also think he would be very good at working policy through Congress. Those are my views with quotes. I am sure I am wrong, some pollster knows more!
Fascinating. You describe yourself (apparently accurately) as a pragmatic conservative (itself a substantial caucus) who is more comfortable with the Bush-wing than the MAGA wing. Yet you cite Rufo, who fought (vigorously, brilliantly) exactly the kind of culture warfare that the Bush wing assiduously avoids. Then, Desantis engages in that culture warfare with great gusto, arguably with more energy than Trump, yet Trump is the problem. Trump also vigorously fought establishments in control of policy on climate change policy. Neither is there much daylight between the two on the other policy initiatives.
Beware the false premise. MAGA isn't some extreme wing of the GOP. It IS the GOP. Desantis is part of it. And he might be better at it that the progenitor of it. That he has a moderate like you on board while maintaining sky high favorability within almost all if the other facets of the GOP doesn't make him moderate or anything, certainly not anti-MAGA. It makes him a potentially rare thing a guy who can unify the party and bring in moderates without changing who he is or what he believes.
The primary will test if he can expand that nationally. And an eager nation awaits. Most people in the GOO would prefer a better version of Trump. But he has to prove he's not a flash in the pan.
1 - DeSantis does fight the culture war with more gusto, but he picks and chooses what he attacks. The issues he takes on are to protect our freedoms and our kids right to grow up. That is something that people will view as a positive. It may be a perception thing, but Trump comes across self-serving and about him. DeSantis comes across as fighting the culture war for us.
2 - DeSantis knows he has to use the legislative process. He also knows how. So it does not look like he is blowing up our Constitution and legal/legislative processes. DeSantis works within the system, not threatening to destroy it. (Very similar to Abrams. We may dislike her and her politics but she knows how to use the system) This is how you get long term change, not rallies.
3 - DeSantis is an environmentalist, he sees himself as a modern Teddy Roosevelt.
1) the true moderate GOP'er...from the Bushies all the way out across the center of the party, do not believe in spending political capital on culture wars. Partly, it's because they think they are losing propositions. Mostly, it's because they really don't believe terribly strongly in the various causes that comprise the war. You can take that all the way out to things that really aren't 'culture wars' like school choice, school vouchers, etc... The irony there, is that school choice/vouchers is a wildly popular notion, even in the middle and left side of the spectrum. It's the perfect wedge issue to peel off left-leaning independents. But moderate GOP'ers are afraid of the public school PACs. Watch the Tx lege this session. Let's see if it fails yet again.
2) that's one of his strongest points, at least for me. I think he is superior to Trump in understanding how to twist nuts & bolts to starve off leftist agendas from public money. Shocking amount of Dem party organizing is done with taxpayer money.
3) I'm not familiar with what he's done here but am am skeptical of all green agendas. Pure power plays, all. Nothing more than using govt edict to control capital. But this is an issue dems have used to peel off parts of the middle into their coalition, so we have to do something. I'll look forward to details.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/why-catholic-school-students-outperformed-government-school-students-during-lockdowns
whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
Obtusity is no defenseOsodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
I'm just an obtuse Independent. How did they get my money?whiterock said:Obtusity is no defenseOsodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
An accusation isn't proof
You should have checked who really owned WeHateTrump.org.Osodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
You bragged about the donation on this board.Osodecentx said:I'm just an obtuse Independent. How did they get my money?whiterock said:Obtusity is no defenseOsodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
An accusation isn't proof
We all saw it.
I donated to Cheney for congress. You're saying an LGBTQ group got the money. I ask how.whiterock said:You bragged about the donation on this board.Osodecentx said:I'm just an obtuse Independent. How did they get my money?whiterock said:Obtusity is no defenseOsodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
An accusation isn't proof
We all saw it.
You are silent.
Trump collected $100 million to help Republican candidates, then he sat on it, then he (like you) blame those who actually helped the weak Trump recruited candidates who lost.
You predicted 55 senators. You say everyone who voted for Trump in 16 & 20 are MAGA. You post anonymous political consultants who proved conclusively the Rs would win the senate and that Trump will win the primary and the presidency in 24.
You're making stuff up and doubling down on it.
LOL. The problem with that post is that literally every sentence is untrue. I didn't say a single thing you cited.Osodecentx said:I donated to Cheney for congress. You're saying an LGBTQ group got the money. I ask how.whiterock said:You bragged about the donation on this board.Osodecentx said:I'm just an obtuse Independent. How did they get my money?whiterock said:Obtusity is no defenseOsodecentx said:whiterock said:They got some of Oso's money .Jack Bauer said:4th and Inches said:if the Lincoln project is against him, I am for him!Jack Bauer said:
I just got the endorsement that I needed to see!
What a bunch of perverts and grifters
Could there be a group of bigger d-bags...I think not .
You can be assured some white supremacists will "just show" up in Tallahassee.
How did they get my money?
An accusation isn't proof
We all saw it.
You are silent.
Trump collected $100 million to help Republican candidates, then he sat on it, then he (like you) blame those who actually helped the weak Trump recruited candidates who lost.
You predicted 55 senators. You say everyone who voted for Trump in 16 & 20 are MAGA. You post anonymous political consultants who proved conclusively the Rs would win the senate and that Trump will win the primary and the presidency in 24.
You're making stuff up and doubling down on it.
That's the problem with neverTrumpers. They conform their perception of reality as needed to fit their emotional need to bash Trump.
When you are the Washington Post "conservative "
Jen Rubin, one month apart pic.twitter.com/HnYPOYDk8u
— John Hasson (@SonofHas) November 22, 2022
GASP! the neverTrumpers are turning on DeSantis already? Boy, that was quick.Jack Bauer said:
When you are the Washington Post "conservative "Jen Rubin, one month apart pic.twitter.com/HnYPOYDk8u
— John Hasson (@SonofHas) November 22, 2022
DeSantis stands with China protesters: "This zero COVID policy is draconian, it violates people's liberties, and it is completely unscientific...This CCP has a maniacal desire to exert total control over their population" pic.twitter.com/uC9ew7upPt
— Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) November 29, 2022