4th and Inches said:

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sombear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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sombear said:

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Let's assume it's true that it was the Never Trumpers that cost Walker, Oz, etc., I have two points/questions:

One, Trump's (and Trumpers') primary argument for 6 years has been that the GOP does not need those votes, that we'll attract blue collar and other voters to more than offset. In fact, as Lake did AZ, Trump has openly taunted so-called moderates and establishment types. You can't pray for rain, then cry when the clouds come in.

Two, more fundamentally, this would further show that Trump and Trumpism is no longer electable. You can't win losing significant % of your own party.

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and yet trumpsters nearly do it while all those tshirt fan voters sat out.. yall really showed them trumpsters! Pick my canidate or I will let my political enemy be in charge.

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Look, I think there is a special place in political hell for never Trumpers (at least the type who let it change their long held political positions and who were inflicted with TDS). But I thought we were discussing the future and electability. While I finally had enough of Trump, my primary argument is that, regardless, he's simply not electable. He's a huge negative. We have to play with the hand we're dealt. And if that many Republicans will not vote for him or his candidates, then it's time to move on and find candidates who can bring everyone together. Those seem to be out there.

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I will not vote for Trump in the primary but I might have to in the general if he gets thru as a GOP canidate. The Dems will put up Joe Biden or Newsome so that is a no for me. If he runs as independent then I will 100% not vote for him.

Hopefully Desantis or another decent canidate beats him in the primary and he walks away. Him in the general in any way will be a disaster for the GOP.

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Remember, for the Dems, the candidate has become almost an afterthought. In what both sides concede was a pretty successful cycle for Dems, who is the star? Who burst out onto the stage to pose as the future for their party? Where is the 2022 version of Beto? Reality is, Dems kept quiet. No barnstorming. Limited opportunities for gaffes. Make the GOP the issue and let the ground game win. That's good "unpopular incumbent" campaigning. When you're unpopular, your task is to make the election a referendum on your opponent rather than yourself. Obama's 2012 campaign, in which he started with his popularity numbers right about where Trump's have ranged, is a classic example.

Dems will put up Biden again, if he will do it. If not, they will run Harris and keep her almost as hidden as they did Biden. She's got name ID and is a black woman from immigrant stock, will be the first intersectional POTUS. They don't need a smart, energetic, telegenic, magnetic personality. They need a non-objectionable name on the ballot with a bio they can form into the image needed for the cycle.

whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Let's assume it's true that it was the Never Trumpers that cost Walker, Oz, etc., I have two points/questions:

One, Trump's (and Trumpers') primary argument for 6 years has been that the GOP does not need those votes, that we'll attract blue collar and other voters to more than offset. In fact, as Lake did AZ, Trump has openly taunted so-called moderates and establishment types. You can't pray for rain, then cry when the clouds come in.

Two, more fundamentally, this would further show that Trump and Trumpism is no longer electable. You can't win losing significant % of your own party.

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One: the math is the math. new demographics are larger than neverTrumpers. So if we accept the false dilemma you offered and pander to neverTrumpers, we risk a net loss of voters.

Two: All campaigns lose a small percentage of the vote from within their party. Trump's share is noisy not particularly remarkable numerically. But that is not the context of the conversation. My point about neverTrumpers costing Walker/Lake their elections was a rebuttal to the patently silly assertion by several here that Trump alone cost us these races in the middle. That flies in the face of basic math. If you lose a 2.5m statewide race by only 17k votes (Lake), any of SEVERAL factors could have won the race. And in AZ specifically, we know that the GOP has been riven by establishment/grassroots infighting for nearly a decade...and the McCain faction remains both highly influential and highly hostile to anything Trump.

Team neverTrump also conveniently flips/flops on both sides of other lines. Sometimes, Trump is kryptonite to all things GOP - yet GOP won a number of statewide races in AZ and elsewhere. In other cases, the argument is that only Trump endorsees are failing across the board. Yet in fact Trump endorsees succeeded in a number of places in this and prior election cycles, most notably the two names most commonly proposed as Trump's successors - Youngkin, DeSantis. Can't have it all ways & twice on Sundays......

Reality is, Trump did make a coupld of bad endorsements. And a couple of questionable ones. But only one as bad as Fetterman, and only a couple as bad as Warnock or Hobbs. That's hardly grounds for the critique he's gotten.

I think I've been pretty consistent here, and considerably more balanced than the Trump critics, who are trying to lay the entire blame in one place. There was plenty to go around. And if the only one we fix is the guy at the top of the ticket, we will have the same outcome in 2024 we've had in the last two cycles. The real elephant in the room is this: Democrats have proven that a really good ballot harvesting operation can elect people who cannot speak in subject/verb/object sentences and rarely bother to appear in public. In that context, the bar for the candidates is pretty low and we have a LOT of work to do.

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Consistent? Before the election I think your worst-case scenario was a 52-seat majority in the Senate. Come the next day you hit a whole new narrative without missing a beat. I highly doubt the other party's vaunted "ground game" was something you only learned of in the wee hours of November 9. Truth is that it was baked into your analysis from the beginning.

There was another factor that you didn't see...and you're still trying very hard not to see.

sombear said:

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You're the one who blamed the Never Trumpers, and I responded.
I blamed neverTrumpers in a small number of very close races, where their numbers clearly exceeded the margin of loss, in at least one race by orders of magnitude. Further, I did so not to deflect blame from Trump, but rather to demonstrate the fallacy of laying the entire blame on him as others have alleged

You're the one who created a straw man. I have not said Trump was entirely to blame. What I have said - supported by all the data - is that bad candidates were to blame. And, sorry, it was not one or two. All the internal and external polling by the GOP and the Dems showed that the eventual nominees in AZ, NH, PA, OH, GA, and NV would perform worse in the general than the other primary candidates and would lose (except OH, where Vance won but badly underperformed). Trump not only endorsed all of these candidates but went out of his way to recruit them and campaign against their opponents. They were true Trump candidates.
Others, some here and a thundering chorus in the chattering classes, HAVE tried to make Trump entirely to blame. Vance won against a sitting Dem Congressman, perhaps the best candidate they fielded in the cycle. Reality was, in Senate races EVERY incumbent won. Kinda hard to blame Trump entirely (which you did do just now) for one of the most enduring critiques of our Republic - the power of incumbency. Trump did not campaign. He did not establish the narrative - the GOP did.

You keep emphasizing that the Dems had some bad candidates too as evidence that it is not about the candidates, but this is flawed. When you're an incumbent or in a Dem-leaning state, you can afford a bad candidate - especially when matched with a bad GOP candidate. PA leans Dems but was there for the taking. AZ, NH, NV, and GA all had Dem incumbents.
Hobbs and Fetterman were not incumbents, and were running in ostensibly purple states. Trump endorsement did lift some of candidates out of crowded fields (as it did for DeSantis in 2018.....) but others were already ahead. Indeed, Trump critics at the time attacked him for getting out in front of an already marching parade.

And you curiously use evidence of successful GOP candidates in all these states to somehow bolster your argument. That is silly. These were good, solid candidates that Trump did NOT handpick. Everyone in GA not Walker; NH Gov; OH Gov; Everyone in AZ not Lake or Masters.
But wait. Is it that Trump tarnishes the GOP, or is it that a Trump endorsement that is the kiss of death? Do independents really look down into primary endorsements that hard? Or is that more of a partisan base issue? Remember, if we expand the horizon beyond a half dozen races, we see many Trump endorsees won this and other cycles, at many levels.

Finally, it's equally silly to credit Trump for Youngkin and Desantis. He barely gave Youngkin the time of day, and Youngkin did not want Trump in VA. And, yes, Trump endorsed Desantis first time around (when Trump was just a tad more popular . . .) but he all but tried to undermine Desantis for months before Desantis' record-breaking second-term victory.
No, what's silly is to say a Trump endorsement is fatal while ignoring that he had endorsed many hundreds of successful candidates thru several cycles, and specficially did endorse Youngkin AFTER the primary (when an endorsement was not needed) and did a tele-townhall with him. (Youngkin, like Masters, was a businessman with no political experience.....) And the big winner of this midterm is exactly the kind of candidate that we now see Trump getting crucified for......a rabble-rousing Freedom Caucus nutjob floundering in a crowded field led by an establishment statewide officeholder widely deemed to be the likely winner. And in the general he SQUEAKED by with a 30k vote win against a hot-mess of a Dem candidate. Will you diminish that outcome as you have done with Vance?

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If you're talking about accountability, yes, Trump deserves a large portion of blame for 4-5 candidates of (varying) lesser quality that probably cost us 1 winnable Senate seat (GA) and a better chance at the rest.

But that's not the argument going on here. The argument being made is that Trump is again a disaster who has dashed the ship upon the rocks, yet again, single-handedly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Every single plank of that argument has holes in it. Trump's endorsements THIS cycle hurt is in a few key states. But in other cycles they have done a great job.....winning the Senate in 2018 (counter-trend). Picking up House seats in 2020 (counter-trend). And the brightest start on the horizon is the closest think the GOP has to Trump 2.0.

So, no. Trump is not the biggest part of the problem. We have a lot of problems, a few of which exceed Trump's issues. If we don't do a better job on those other problems, it won't matter who our candidate is. Trump's popularity levels are near the top of the list of my concerns. I worry he will reject the need for solutions on those other problems, thinking his force of personality can overcome all. That's why I keep saying I want to see what RDS plans to do about mail-in voting operations. THAT is the elephant in the room. We don't fix that and we are in the wildnerness.

It's hard not to blame Trump in significant part when (1) his hand-picked Senate candidates lost very winnable races in states where other GOP candidates did very well, and (2) for the first time in history, voters voted based less on an unpopular sitting Pres than they did on a politician from the other party (Trump).

You disregard the fact that parties and party leaders rarely stick their noses in primaries (except at times for their own incumbents). Trump involved himself early and often, and in the Senate, his hand-picked candidates lost.

You cannot compare OH and VA. OH is solid red; VA solid blue. Youngkin's election was a political earthquake. You cannot sit there with a straight face, and say voters considered Youngkin a Trump candidate. That's almost as bad as Trump trying to take credit for Kemp in GA.

I actually like Vance, but the fact is he won a fairly close race while the GOP Gov won by 30. The GOP was forced to spend $ in OH, and that $ was needed elsewhere.

I'm well aware of the incumbency advantage. I wrote a paper on it in grad school and helped a professor with his book on it. But, there are limits, and both parties had PA, GA, AZ, NV, and NH as lean GOP early on in the primary season. In every one of those states, Trump's candidate polled worse than other primary candidates.

I had focused on Senate, but since you mentioned Hobbs, that example hurts Trump. No reason for Lake to lose to her, especially when strong conservatives did very well in AZ aside from Lake and Masters. And Ducey was a very popular gov. Lake ran an awful campaign, doubling down on Trumpism (attacking other Republicans and claiming Trump was the true winner). Hobbs ran no campaign at all because she did not have to. Here internals always showed her winning a close one.

There is an enormous difference between Trump endorsements on a list and true Trump hand-picked candidates. Voters associated Trump with his hand-picked Senate and Gov candidates, not hundreds of House folks he endorsed. But, if you're going there, Trump's controversial and high-profile House picks didn't do so well either.

But wait. Is it that Trump tarnishes the GOP, or is it that a Trump endorsement that is the kiss of death?

Both, based on 2022 results and data (and the fact that Dems spent most of their time and $ tying candidates to Trump), but it's also the candidates he chose based on his idiotic litmus tests.

2018 means nothing. Since then, Trump has lost in a landslide, lost the Senate, and had a historically bad mid-term election where Dems made him the issue more than any other. The Trump of 2022 is a totally different animal. He is wildly unpopular and has proven a drag on the party. That of course does not mean there are no other issues.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

That's a Dem PAC, basically Lincoln Project Light.

whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

Translation: "we're gonna make sure our candidates are boring and safe like Brian Kemp. No more Blake Masters" https://t.co/ObhugTveq0

— Scott Greer 6’2” IQ 187 (@ScottMGreer) December 13, 2022

Wow this guy is a POS. Total BS. How about next cycle you don’t sabotage you own candidates?! pic.twitter.com/RZhoHyPtOG

— David Giglio (@DavidGiglioCA) December 13, 2022

sombear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

That's a Dem PAC, basically Lincoln Project Light.

---

yep. neverTrumpers aligned with Dems to suck of GOP votes. Didn't cost us all the races. But did cost us a couple. NV Senate & AZ Gov for sure. Likely GA Senate. Perhaps even AZ Senate. Not a decisive factor elsewhere.

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

Oh, they're not dumb. They're just more worried about winning back control of the party (from Trumpism) than winning back the Senate. AZ is exhibit A. Moderate/conservative infighting there literally cost us the presidential race in 2020, the last four senate races, now the Gov seat. McCainiacs would rather let Dems win than let AZ conservative movement secure control of the party....repeated endorsement of Dems and/or working against GOP nominees.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Translation: "we're gonna make sure our candidates are boring and safe like Brian Kemp. No more Blake Masters" https://t.co/ObhugTveq0

— Scott Greer 6’2” IQ 187 (@ScottMGreer) December 13, 2022

Wow this guy is a POS. Total BS. How about next cycle you don’t sabotage you own candidates?! pic.twitter.com/RZhoHyPtOG

— David Giglio (@DavidGiglioCA) December 13, 2022

---

Big Mitch telling big donors to be patient.

Money differential on a lot of those races staggering, especially with how close a lot of those candidates came to winning

4th and Inches said:

---

Money differential on a lot of those races staggering, especially with how close a lot of those candidates came to winning

---

think 100m on behalf of Walker might have made the difference?

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Money differential on a lot of those races staggering, especially with how close a lot of those candidates came to winning

---

think 100m on behalf of Walker might have made the difference?

---

Fetterman's win in PA shows that a lousy candidate can win. So yes, backing the GOP nominee in Georgia would have made a great deal of difference.

Oldbear83 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Money differential on a lot of those races staggering, especially with how close a lot of those candidates came to winning

---

think 100m on behalf of Walker might have made the difference?

---

Fetterman's win in PA shows that a lousy candidate can win. So yes, backing the GOP nominee in Georgia would have made a great deal of difference.

---

Nope....according to GOP leadership its better to lose and then wait for some uncertain point in the future to win with a hypothetical "correct candidate" than just win now.

So while the Democrats ran a literally brain damaged guy who has lived off his parents all his life....they still put money into the race and won....now they have the Senate.

And lets not forget the "principles over party" Republicans who helped make this happen.

They tried this with Trump....the entire GOP leadership was against his election in 2016...many actively voted for Hillary Clinton.

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

---

4th doesn't appreciate you calling him dumb.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

---

4th I doesn't appreciate you calling him dumb me on my fibs .

---

Corrected

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

"vote Blue, no matter who"

"Vote Red, unless you dont feel like it"

One of these is a losing Strategy

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

sombear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

---

4th doesn't appreciate you calling him dumb.

---

I dont live in GA, I didnt vote for or against him.. I might still be dumb though

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

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That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

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The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

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An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

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They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

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Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

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in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

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supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

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The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

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Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

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4th doesn't appreciate you calling him dumb.

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I dont live in GA, I didnt vote for or against him.. I might still be dumb though

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Same here, but we're talking about OldBear logic...so who knows?

4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

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That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

Walker won the nomination, so like or not, WE nominated Walker.

Then again, Sam has made it plain long ago, he is not Republican let alone Conservative, so in his case it may be more accurate that he is not pretending anymore to be one of us.

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4th doesn't appreciate you calling him dumb.

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I dont live in GA, I didnt vote for or against him.. I might still be dumb though

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That's one reason I appreciate my wife, She will always let me know when I am dumb or smart.

4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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whiterock said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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sombear said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-red-wave-that-wasnt-2/


[Republican voters did their part. When one accumulates the popular vote for House races across the country, Republicans won by three percentage pointsa margin that was once just under five points but narrowed as votes from deep-blue districts trickled in over weeks after Election Day. That kind of turnout for Republicans "would normally translate into GOP gains of 20-30 seats," according to the Cook Political Report. But Republicans have as of early December netted only eight seats, bringing their total in the House to 220. At most, Republicans will hold 222. In races that seemed to be easy flips, Republicans flopped...

Republican voters across the country are starving for some accountability, and justifiably so. They should look no further than GOP leadership, namely House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.]

---

That's such a BS article. Blame McCarthy . . . but his 3 examples were 2 ultimate GOP wins, then the Kent race, which actually was an awful loss for Trumpism. Yes, McCarthy and others (many true conservatives by the way) supported a popular incumbent over a conspiracy theorist (Kent). The incumbent had won prior elections in blowouts. Kent beat her in the primary but lost the general. Similar Trumpist insurgent candidates lost in MI and NV.

Then the author blasts McConnell for not throwing money late at NH and AZ. Fact is, thanks to all the lousy candidates, McConnell and other GOP Senate backers had to pick and choose. NC and OH should have been blowouts but they were polling too close for comfort. And in hindsight, it was a very wise decision. NH was a blowout loss, and no amount of late $ was to going to swing 5 points to Masters. BTW Masters' own internals had him consistently down 5-7 even when many pollsters had it closer.

---

The Establishment got what it wants.

McConnell and McCarthy will stay in power.

And nothing will be done but more funding for the war in Ukraine and more tax cuts for the wealthy.

Oh and gay marriage and probably some version of amnesty.

But they will give us some BS investigations of Biden's son.

Top notch stuff....one has to one why average voters even bother with the GOP.

---

An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

---

They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

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"vote Blue, no matter who"

"Vote Red, unless you dont feel like it"

One of these is a losing Strategy

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More Republicans voted than Democrats, but Republicans ran off independents. Independents are under no obligation to vote for subpar candidates.

The losing strategy is to nominate bad candidates

Trashing your own party's nominee does not seem like much of a winning plan, son.

Oldbear83 said:

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whiterock said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Money differential on a lot of those races staggering, especially with how close a lot of those candidates came to winning

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think 100m on behalf of Walker might have made the difference?

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Fetterman's win in PA shows that a lousy candidate can win. So yes, backing the GOP nominee in Georgia would have made a great deal of difference.

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ergo Mitch owns a piece of this. He not only stepped back and left Walker to twist in the wind, he winked and nodded and whispered, finally spoke out loud about "candidate quality." That ensured big donor money would not flow in volume.

Osodecentx said:

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An odd change of subject. But I'll play. What do you want to see them do as the minority party with no power (thanks to Trump)?

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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They might have been a majority party if they offered something different.

Instead they won the House by far less than they should have and failed to win the Senate.

---

Like what? We had a strong advantage on every key issue except abortion, and that was pretty close. Immigration, energy, economy, taxes, crime, education, COVID, and cancel culture.

---

in some of the closer races, the answer is pretty flippin' obvious.

---

supported Kemp and Warnock..

Even if you dont support Walker, you vote against Warnock. Dems figured this out, why are Republicans so dumb?

---

The time to ask that was when they nominated Walker.

---

"vote Blue, no matter who"

"Vote Red, unless you dont feel like it"

One of these is a losing Strategy

---

More Republicans voted than Democrats, but Republicans ran off independents. Independents are under no obligation to vote for subpar candidates.

The losing strategy is to nominate bad candidates

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The losing strategy is for GOP voters to cross and/or undervote over by the tens of thousands because they don't like the GOP candidate. THAT is what cost us the Senate.

Boehner crying in tribute to Pelosi while talking about how his daughters are Democrats is a pretty good summation of Republican leadership over the past couple of decades https://t.co/qccwcscgVU

— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) December 15, 2022