Like Trump, there's a severe lack of self awareness in his most faithful.Mothra said:Not a chance, IMO. Not after the midterms.whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Ummmmm..............Yesfubar said:
Give us all a break. You'll vote for whatever candidate the Republicans nominate.
And in the realm of possibilities, a Trump/Desantis ticket remains near, if not at the top of the list of likely outcomes
TRUMP 2024, BOOM
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sums it up.fadskier said:
I was hoping he wouldn't run again, but if he's the nominee, I'll have to vote for him.
- kkm
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating pumpkin pie }
go donny go!
Fetterman2024
Agreed. We are often left with the choice between the evil of two lessers.Mothra said:A rule that applies equally to both parties.xxx yyy said:"'Ooh, ahh.' That's how it always starts. But then later, there's running and screaming."fubar said:
Oh, there are going to be some "boom"s all right.
The dems do not want him in jail. He is their best candidate. They want him to run and win the primaries. Best way for them to win is to keep him there and him to keep running his mouth and twitter. Dems don't stand a chance against Desantis and want orange man there.
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
Stuart Stevens said something like this last night: Desantis would be nuts to jump into the race at this point. In spite of the recent Texas poll (since when are we taking Texas polls seriously?) it would be an extremely difficult ugly, bloody campaign to win the nomination against Trump. Better he stays in the wings, wait for Trump to collapse, where he will be the first option if that happens. Whether Trump wins the nomination, wins the Presidency, or loses, Desantis would be a stronger candidate in 2028 with no incumbent to run against. He turns 50 in 28.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
xxx yyy said:Stuart Stevens said something like this last night: Desantis would be nuts to jump into the race at this point. In spite of the recent Texas poll (since when are we taking Texas polls seriously?) it would be an extremely difficult ugly, bloody campaign to win the nomination against Trump. Better he stays in the wings, wait for Trump to collapse, where he will be the first option if that happens. Whether Trump wins the nomination, wins the Presidency, or loses, Desantis would be a stronger candidate in 2028 with no incumbent to run against. He turns 50 in 28.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
Correct up until that last two sentences. He will be weaker, not stronger in 2028 in all respects, and he will indeed have to run against an incumbent in 2028, either a sitting Republican VP or a sitting Dem POTUS.
He will make the push to get on the 2024 ticket somewhere. The only reason that might dissuade him is the health of his wife.
One cannot run for nomination in a party, lose, and easily step out to run third party. There are filing deadlines to get on the general Election ballot. Given Trumps money and support within the party, he is not likely to be an early departure. He will take it to the end. So the scenario proposed would be a LOT easier said than done.
Yup.xxx yyy said:Agreed. We are often left with the choice between the evil of two lessers.Mothra said:A rule that applies equally to both parties.xxx yyy said:"'Ooh, ahh.' That's how it always starts. But then later, there's running and screaming."fubar said:
Oh, there are going to be some "boom"s all right.
Agreed. If he loses in the primaries, then no doubt he will go scorched earth and ruin the election for everyone.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
That's good news at least ... and I agree. DeSantis must strike when the iron is hot, but he should just sit back for a while and let Trump continue to meltdown. Trump is only going to lose more support, he's not going to win any new support - he's diminishing in value. There will be a time for DeSantis to strike. Trump has proven he lacks discipline and will only continual alienate more people ... best to let the bull run in the China cabinet until he cuts himself fatally.whiterock said:xxx yyy said:Stuart Stevens said something like this last night: Desantis would be nuts to jump into the race at this point. In spite of the recent Texas poll (since when are we taking Texas polls seriously?) it would be an extremely difficult ugly, bloody campaign to win the nomination against Trump. Better he stays in the wings, wait for Trump to collapse, where he will be the first option if that happens. Whether Trump wins the nomination, wins the Presidency, or loses, Desantis would be a stronger candidate in 2028 with no incumbent to run against. He turns 50 in 28.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
Correct up until that last two sentences. He will be weaker, not stronger in 2028 in all respects, and he will indeed have to run against an incumbent in 2028, either a sitting Republican VP or a sitting Dem POTUS.
He will make the push to get on the 2024 ticket somewhere. The only reason that might dissuade him is the health of his wife.
One cannot run for nomination in a party, lose, and easily step out to run third party. There are filing deadlines to get on the general Election ballot. Given Trumps money and support within the party, he is not likely to be an early departure. He will take it to the end. So the scenario proposed would be a LOT easier said than done.
So, your position is we are stuck with Trump?whiterock said:xxx yyy said:Stuart Stevens said something like this last night: Desantis would be nuts to jump into the race at this point. In spite of the recent Texas poll (since when are we taking Texas polls seriously?) it would be an extremely difficult ugly, bloody campaign to win the nomination against Trump. Better he stays in the wings, wait for Trump to collapse, where he will be the first option if that happens. Whether Trump wins the nomination, wins the Presidency, or loses, Desantis would be a stronger candidate in 2028 with no incumbent to run against. He turns 50 in 28.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
Correct up until that last two sentences. He will be weaker, not stronger in 2028 in all respects, and he will indeed have to run against an incumbent in 2028, either a sitting Republican VP or a sitting Dem POTUS.
He will make the push to get on the 2024 ticket somewhere. The only reason that might dissuade him is the health of his wife.
One cannot run for nomination in a party, lose, and easily step out to run third party. There are filing deadlines to get on the general Election ballot. Given Trumps money and support within the party, he is not likely to be an early departure. He will take it to the end. So the scenario proposed would be a LOT easier said than done.
Always extremely unlikely..........now not a chance in the world .whiterock said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Ummmmm..............Yesfubar said:
Give us all a break. You'll vote for whatever candidate the Republicans nominate.
And in the realm of possibilities, a Trump/Desantis ticket remains near, if not at the top of the list of likely outcomes
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
we are so fucking back pic.twitter.com/0f8eEH1hJn
— Jack Kelly (@kowboykelly) November 16, 2022
We’re back #TrumpAnnouncement pic.twitter.com/GHSzohC3Ct
— ⚡️⚡️☠️Notorious☠️⚡️⚡️ (@CryptoOnlyCoims) November 16, 2022
you, little Johnny have worked your way to absolute lunatic fringe ! Enjoy trumps going forward. He is effing toast!Johnny Bear said:
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
So which point of Johnny's message did you not like? Just curious.J.R. said:you, little Johnny have worked your way to absolute lunatic fringe ! Enjoy trumps going forward. He is effing toast!Johnny Bear said:
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Trump was a great president. His response to the Covid pandemic was mixed: he delivered the vaccine and tried to slow the spread only to be initially undermined by Democrats. As time wore on I think he became less effective and was too distracted by shiny things, and his daily PCs were confusing.Johnny Bear said:
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
That being said, practically from a political standpoint he buried himself with the 2020 election paranoia. It has moved well beyond whether he's right or not but doing the right thing, which is moving on ... none of his public bloviation was matched by court filings, so he's just spewing crazy talk ... and he cannot let it go to the point of it being a weird litmus test for fealty to him.
People liked Trump because he was an anti-Establishment Establishment politician and focused on making America great vs. the globalist agenda. If he would have stayed there he would be popular, but everyone is tired of his act. And the mid-term elections proved it without question. Independents and a lot of Republicans may even think the 2020 election was fishy but it is way past move on time. Finally, he obviously cares more about himself than the Republican Party ... his stupid candidate selection and attacks on DeSantis show he's just lost his mind.
My question is...where is Barron Trump playing his college basketball? He's 6'7" now!
From earlier: Members of Donald Trump’s immediate family and other guests arriving ahead of tonight’s announcement at Mar-a-Lago, including Barron Trump, Eric and Lara Trump, Kimberly Guilfoyle, and Jason Miller pic.twitter.com/D5btPZzBWT
— Brendan Gutenschwager (@BGOnTheScene) November 16, 2022
The Dems, GOP, and Libertarians have 2 years to provide qualified candidates for the office. Biden and Trump fall below my standard of competence as Presidents. The parties need to get their acts together and provide younger qualified candidates.
I was hoping he wouldn't run but here we are. We could have an offensive jerk but an effective leader or we can have open borders, wars, recession and accelerated decline of the country. I'll take the jerk. The choice always seems to be the lesser of 2 evils.
Sadly, unless republicans up their ballot acquisition game, it won't matter who they run.
Sadly, unless republicans up their ballot acquisition game, it won't matter who they run.
BearFan33 said:
I was hoping he wouldn't run but here we are. We could have an offensive jerk but an effective leader or we can have open borders, wars, recession and accelerated decline of the country. I'll take the jerk. The choice always seems to be the lesser of 2 evils.
Sadly, unless republicans up their ballot acquisition game, it won't matter who they run.
Last line is key. Play the game equally or forever lose.
I am guessing that Trump is playing the "early bird gets the worm" strategy. He declares himself as a candidate and dissuades others from running for the office since he is a pseudo-incumbent. I think he has had his shot and it is time for some younger blood. Also, I am tired of political-ads. I wish Trump would have waited a few months before pushing himself back into the headlines.
The utterly crazy thing is... if Trump looks like he will win the nomination, there will be pressure on Biden to run as well. Hopefully, toward the middle of next year, we should start getting quality polling (not so much from Trafalgar, did any of their predictions hold up?) in the key states. Leading up to 2020, Biden was the only Dem who consistently polled even or above DJT in Pennsylvania, Wisc., Michigan--key states Dems absolutely have to have. Republicans could take 1 -2 of the three and win. With that, I don't see the possibility of an incumbent in the race in 28, assuming Trump stays in the race. You mention an incumbent Republican VP. Are you thinking Trump would be impeached on the third try? Not likely as you will still need 15-18 Republican Senators to convict. VPs running to replace a 2 term President in their own party do not do well, historically. Desantis should stay out of the VP role as it would be 4 years of Hell as Trump's VP.whiterock said:xxx yyy said:Stuart Stevens said something like this last night: Desantis would be nuts to jump into the race at this point. In spite of the recent Texas poll (since when are we taking Texas polls seriously?) it would be an extremely difficult ugly, bloody campaign to win the nomination against Trump. Better he stays in the wings, wait for Trump to collapse, where he will be the first option if that happens. Whether Trump wins the nomination, wins the Presidency, or loses, Desantis would be a stronger candidate in 2028 with no incumbent to run against. He turns 50 in 28.Harrison Bergeron said:
I do think Trump will run as an independent if he does not get the nomination, and at this point I do not think he does. Trump has shown he is nothing but about himself and could care less about the Republican Party. He's pathetically delusional about his popularity, and he will not take no for an answer.
I would still hold my nose and vote for Trump against the authoritarians, but I hope it does not come to that.
Correct up until that last two sentences. He will be weaker, not stronger in 2028 in all respects, and he will indeed have to run against an incumbent in 2028, either a sitting Republican VP or a sitting Dem POTUS.
He will make the push to get on the 2024 ticket somewhere. The only reason that might dissuade him is the health of his wife.
One cannot run for nomination in a party, lose, and easily step out to run third party. There are filing deadlines to get on the general Election ballot. Given Trumps money and support within the party, he is not likely to be an early departure. He will take it to the end. So the scenario proposed would be a LOT easier said than done.
Sounds like you don't get the Trump hate, at least by most of the conservatives on this board. No reasonable conservative is upset at the good things that occurred while he was in office. Instead, they are upset because he has the self-control of a petulant little five-year-old. They are upset because he is a petty, self-aggrandizing narcissist who lacks any semblance of self-awareness, and the ability to control his worse impulses. They are upset because if he could have gotten control of those things, and behaved like most reasonable adults, he would most likely still be president. But instead, because of his lack of self control, we got Biden.Johnny Bear said:
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
There's good reason to be upset about that.
Yep and he's not going to gain extra support. We're up against 80+ million dem votes because of how ballots/mail has changed the game. We're up against unmarried white feminists and an entire media apparatus that drives votes to democrats.Harrison Bergeron said:Trump was a great president. His response to the Covid pandemic was mixed: he delivered the vaccine and tried to slow the spread only to be initially undermined by Democrats. As time wore on I think he became less effective and was too distracted by shiny things, and his daily PCs were confusing.Johnny Bear said:
I get all the Trump hate. After all, our country was so much worse off when he was POTUS as compared to now. I mean who needs abundant inexpensive energy, little to no inflation, reliable supply chains, a secure border, growing 401K's, decreasing unemployment in all demographics, respect abroad, and a military that was focused on being the strongest and best fighting force in the world as opposed to being the wokest military in the world.
I don't know how we ever survived - and to think the man wants to restore all of that! Wow, what a monster!
That being said, practically from a political standpoint he buried himself with the 2020 election paranoia. It has moved well beyond whether he's right or not but doing the right thing, which is moving on ... none of his public bloviation was matched by court filings, so he's just spewing crazy talk ... and he cannot let it go to the point of it being a weird litmus test for fealty to him.
People liked Trump because he was an anti-Establishment Establishment politician and focused on making America great vs. the globalist agenda. If he would have stayed there he would be popular, but everyone is tired of his act. And the mid-term elections proved it without question. Independents and a lot of Republicans may even think the 2020 election was fishy but it is way past move on time. Finally, he obviously cares more about himself than the Republican Party ... his stupid candidate selection and attacks on DeSantis show he's just lost his mind.
Trump did some great things, but also surrounded himself with establishment neocons who stabbed him in the back. He had good policies, but wasn't as effective as he could have been. This is because he really doesn't understand the DC uniparty dynamics.
We don't need a bull in a china shop, we need a lion in the jungle.
^^^^ This ^^^^Guy Noir said:
The Dems, GOP, and Libertarians have 2 years to provide qualified candidates for the office. Biden and Trump fall below my standard of competence as Presidents. The parties need to get their acts together and provide younger qualified candidates.
The Republicans find themselves in a place quite similar to the Democrats in the months leading up to November 2020. Facing an unpopular incumbent, the early Dem leader (Bernie Sanders) was the ONE candidate who couldn't win the general election. In what seemed like three days, something like four moderate Dems dropped out of the primary races, either outright endorsing Biden or intimating he was the best choice. It worked.
And now here we are, though extremely early in the process leading up to 2024. An unliked incumbent (Biden) being challenged by the ONE Republican who cannot win (but seems to hold all the cards needed to get nominated). My hope is that the sane GOP wing unites behind somebody, ANYBODY, who can yank the party back into reality.
We'll see what happens. There is a long way to go, duh, but I am somewhat hopeful.
Gunter gleiben glauchen globen
Sanders and Warren had the energy early in 2019, but as Iowa indicated no one was in the lead (Iowa caucus was won by Buttigieg with 26.2%). Election completely turned when Clyburn delivered South Carolina to Joe.fubar said:^^^^ This ^^^^Guy Noir said:
The Dems, GOP, and Libertarians have 2 years to provide qualified candidates for the office. Biden and Trump fall below my standard of competence as Presidents. The parties need to get their acts together and provide younger qualified candidates.
The Republicans find themselves in a place quite similar to the Democrats in the months leading up to November 2020. Facing an unpopular incumbent, the early Dem leader (Bernie Sanders) was the ONE candidate who couldn't win the general election. In
what seemed like three days, something like four moderate Dems dropped out of the primary races, either outright endorsing Biden or intimating he was the best choice. It worked.
And now here we are, though extremely early in the process leading up to 2024. An unliked incumbent (Biden) being challenged by the ONE Republican who cannot win (but seems to hold all the cards needed to get nominated). My hope is that the sane GOP wing unites behind somebody, ANYBODY, who can yank the party back into reality.
We'll see what happens. There is a long way to go, duh, but I am somewhat hopeful.
Biden, for all his manifold faults, is the only Dem. that unites the factions in the party. Progressives may complain about him, but most will vote for him --especially if against Trump.
Not sure Trump can't win. If Democrats nominate a weak candidate--Harris, for example, Trump could definitely win.
It will be a primary like we have never seen before
a big lovely primary, the biggest even..BornAgain said:
It will be a primary like we have never seen before
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
Just guaranteed he will be prosecuted and it will drag on for 2 years... Liz Cheney now has a job going after him. So good for the Country.KOKQB70 said:
Nov 15, he's in, OMG, what 's up with his announcement? Buckle up, here we go.
Trump will resume his spoiled rich kid routine soon enough .BornAgain said:
It will be a primary like we have never seen before
Republicans need to do to Trump what Dem power brokers did to Bernie in 2020 . Organized ....ruthless .....political head chopping .
Sooner the better.
Bernie and Trump supporters are similar in some ways--in some instances they are the same people (a fact that leaves me wondering about the democratic process, education, drug testing, et. al.)Canada2017 said:Trump will resume his spoiled rich kid routine soon enough .BornAgain said:
It will be a primary like we have never seen before
Republicans need to do to Trump what Dem power brokers did to Bernie in 2020 . Organized ....ruthless .....political head chopping .
Sooner the better.
The fact is, they tend to not support other candidates when their guy is out. A lot of Bernie's failed to show up for Hillary, and I would expect a lot of Trump's will not show up for the Republican nominee --especially if the campaign against Trump should get ugly, which it will.
Trump voters are worried that Desantis will be a neocon or quasi populist.
But here's the deal with Trump: he ran on drain the swamp...but he didn't deliver.
So if Desantis doesn't deliver, you get the same thing but without all the nonsense, media insanity and Trump being a dick.
The media has exhausted their outrage on Trump and it won't stick with Desantis. They will absolutely try, but it won't work.
But here's the deal with Trump: he ran on drain the swamp...but he didn't deliver.
So if Desantis doesn't deliver, you get the same thing but without all the nonsense, media insanity and Trump being a dick.
The media has exhausted their outrage on Trump and it won't stick with Desantis. They will absolutely try, but it won't work.
Trump supporters are not for governing. They seem to be about the negative, rather than the positive. I don't hear much about what they want, just what they want to stop, end or change. That to me is the biggest difference between Trump 16 and today. Would love to hear what they are for, sick of the negative crap...xxx yyy said:Bernie and Trump supporters are similar in some ways--in some instances they are the same people (a fact that leaves me wondering about the democratic process, education, drug testing, et. al.)Canada2017 said:Trump will resume his spoiled rich kid routine soon enough .BornAgain said:
It will be a primary like we have never seen before
Republicans need to do to Trump what Dem power brokers did to Bernie in 2020 . Organized ....ruthless .....political head chopping .
Sooner the better.
The fact is, they tend to not support other candidates when their guy is out. A lot of Bernie's failed to show up for Hillary, and I would expect a lot of Trump's will not show up for the Republican nominee --especially if the campaign against Trump should get ugly, which it will.