"respect for marriage" act

3,661 Views | 80 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Harrison Bergeron
Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

"How will the mainstreaming of homosexuality ever effect you?"

Well this person got out through a re-education/indoctrination program and fined by the State.


This is a tragic case. I would like to see some of these gaystapo activists target a Muslim small business, but we know that will never happen.


Give them time.

Unless orthodox Muslims make sure and commit themselves totally and loyally to the Liberal political coalition…they will eventually find themselves targeted.

Already you can see this with play-out in the friction and destain that the New York political machine has for ultra-Orthodox Jews over in Brooklyn (who vote conservative). And the increasing dislike liberals have for Hispanic Cubans in Florida (who vote reliably Republican).

If you don't vote the right way then you don't get protection.
Jack Bauer
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Will7 any of yall go to war to prevent hugo and jimenez from marrying?

There is currently a case at the SC of a web page designer who is being sued for not wanting to provide services for same-sex marriages. I would go to war for that.

I don't care what hugo and jiminez do on their own accord.
Jack Bauer
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So which is it?

Bake that cake or not.

Redbrickbear
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Jack Bauer said:

So which is it?

Bake that cake or not.




Some cakes are more equal than others
Jack Bauer
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Redbrickbear said:

Jack Bauer said:

So which is it?

Bake that cake or not.




Some cakes are more equal than others

I am SURE my friend KJP will be fighting tooth and nail for these Christians rights to assemble!!

Porteroso
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He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.
Harrison Bergeron
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Jack Bauer said:

So which is it?

Bake that cake or not.


It's the beauty of the authoritarian propaganda - everything is simply judged by whether or not the fascists agree or not.
Harrison Bergeron
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Porteroso said:

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.


The pedophile position.
Redbrickbear
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Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that
Harrison Bergeron
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Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that
Judging by the stats, gay people really don't want to be married they just want it normalized. Last I looked less than 10% of gay people are married.
Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that
Judging by the stats, gay people really don't want to be married they just want it normalized. Last I looked less than 10% of gay people are married.


And divorce rates for lesbians are higher than heterosexuals.

So even when marriage is redefined for them they enter into it less often and divorce more often.

Harrison Bergeron
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Redbrickbear said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that
Judging by the stats, gay people really don't want to be married they just want it normalized. Last I looked less than 10% of gay people are married.


And divorce rates for lesbians are higher than heterosexuals.

So even when marriage is redefined for them they enter into it less often and divorce more often.


A thinking person quickly will understand the issue ... marriage is homophobic.

It's almost like the Creator was on to something with this crazy notion of male-female complementary idea.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.
Marriage is not at all a federal matter. It has been the province of the several States from the beginning of our Union. As part of the States' powers to regulate health, safety, and morality, the States' were vested with the power to recognize marriage from the beginning. The first time that the Federal Government really got involved in marriage was Loving vs. Virginia. The outcome of that case was morally correct, but the Supreme Court waded into a water it should not have in order to correct a social ill--that being racial prejudice.

Later the Court looked to European law to strike down anti-sodomy statutes in Lawrence vs. Texas. Again, the Court invaded the province of the States and imposed the morality of a majority of nine people on the entire nation. The Court, if acting properly within its role, would have left the regulation of morality to the individual States.

The Court most recently expressed its desire to impose its own immorality on the entire nation in Obergfell in the name of "love" and specious legal reasoning. Although marriage and the regulation of marriage had been the province of the States for over 150 years, the Supreme Court fancied itself morally justified in overruling the States' power to say that marriage is solely between a man and woman. It took the Court over 200 years to find this power and right. The world was simply waiting on Anthony Kennedy to tell us that the Founders missed something important.

No, marriage is not a federal issue. Very little, actually, should be a federal issue. If not for Wilson, FDR, and Wickard v. Filburn and its progeny, very little would still be a federal issue. We need to overhaul SCOTUS power, ICC jurisprudence, and the federal bureaucracy and return important issues back to the States where those issues properly belong. Deciding every contentious social and moral issue in Washington DC is fracturing this nation.

Parenthetically, one wonders why the Court in Lawrence v. Texas--if the Court wanted to resort to foreign law in its analysis--did not look to Shari'a. Shari'a is equally valid as European law (save for British common law and, in Louisiana, the Napoleonic Code).
Redbrickbear
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He Hate Me said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.
Marriage is not at all a federal matter. It has been the province of the several States from the beginning of our Union. As part of the States' powers to regulate health, safety, and morality, the States' were vested with the power to recognize marriage from the beginning. The first time that the Federal Government really got involved in marriage was Loving vs. Virginia. The outcome of that case was morally correct, but the Supreme Court waded into a water it should not have in order to correct a social ill--that being racial prejudice.

Later the Court looked to European law to strike down anti-sodomy statutes in Lawrence vs. Texas. Again, the Court invaded the province of the States and imposed the morality of a majority of nine people on the entire nation. The Court, if acting properly within its role, would have left the regulation of morality to the individual States.

The Court most recently expressed its desire to impose its own immorality on the entire nation in Obergfell in the name of "love" and specious legal reasoning. Although marriage and the regulation of marriage had been the province of the States for over 150 years, the Supreme Court fancied itself morally justified in overruling the States' power to say that marriage is solely between a man and woman. It took the Court over 200 years to find this power and right. The world was simply waiting on Anthony Kennedy to tell us that the Founders missed something important.

No, marriage is not a federal issue. Very little, actually, should be a federal issue. If not for Wilson, FDR, and Wickard v. Filburn and its progeny, very little would still be a federal issue. We need to overhaul SCOTUS power, ICC jurisprudence, and the federal bureaucracy and return important issues back to the States where those issues properly belong. Deciding every contentious social and moral issue in Washington DC is fracturing this nation.

Parenthetically, one wonders why the Court in Lawrence v. Texas--if the Court wanted to resort to foreign law in its analysis--did not look to Shari'a. Shari'a is equally valid as European law (save for British common law and, in Louisiana, the Napoleonic Code).


We know very well why liberal Federal judges when they look abroad for foreign laws to review favorably never pick out Islamic law (1 billion Muslims, 50+ nations, etc.) and always select the laws of a few highly secular modern European states…the Netherlands being a particular favorite.
Porteroso
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Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

The government regulating marriage should be as ridiculous as the government regulating baptism, but religious leaders were foolish enough to let the government get involved with marriage early on. The wise ones probably knew eventually something like this would happen.

This same argument happened when marriages started taking place under government officials, in courtrooms. They, just like you, didn't realize that the government simply must be fair. I'm not engaging in the polygamy argument.
Redbrickbear
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Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

The government regulating marriage should be as ridiculous as the government regulating baptism, but religious leaders were foolish enough to let the government get involved with marriage early on. The wise ones probably knew eventually something like this would happen.

This same argument happened when marriages started taking place under government officials, in courtrooms. They, just like you, didn't realize that the government simply must be fair. I'm not engaging in the polygamy argument.


I understand your point that the government should not be involved in the business of marriage.

And I sympathize with it.

But the government is now and that won't change.

If you are going to give two men the "right to marriage" it makes no logically sense not to give that same "right" to a man and two women.
ATL Bear
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Redbrickbear said:

Jack Bauer said:

So which is it?

Bake that cake or not.




Some cakes are more equal than others
And amazingly, many of us who support the cake baker also support legally (even if disagree with principally) the restaurant to do this.
ATL Bear
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Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

The government regulating marriage should be as ridiculous as the government regulating baptism, but religious leaders were foolish enough to let the government get involved with marriage early on. The wise ones probably knew eventually something like this would happen.

This same argument happened when marriages started taking place under government officials, in courtrooms. They, just like you, didn't realize that the government simply must be fair. I'm not engaging in the polygamy argument.
The government uses law to incentivize and encourage certain behaviors. There is a clear origin of why the government "got involved" with marriage. Moving completely away from its origin and format makes it unnecessary for any involvement, and further tears away at the nuclear family format. And for what it's worth, I don't blame homosexuality for it, or same sex marriage. I blame the advent of easy divorce. Same sex marriage just turned it completely into a partnership arrangement without limitation, including false limitations like relative marriage, polygamy, simple partnerships for tax benefit purposes, etc.
Harrison Bergeron
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ATL Bear said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

The government regulating marriage should be as ridiculous as the government regulating baptism, but religious leaders were foolish enough to let the government get involved with marriage early on. The wise ones probably knew eventually something like this would happen.

This same argument happened when marriages started taking place under government officials, in courtrooms. They, just like you, didn't realize that the government simply must be fair. I'm not engaging in the polygamy argument.
The government uses law to incentivize and encourage certain behaviors. There is a clear origin of why the government "got involved" with marriage. Moving completely away from its origin and format makes it unnecessary for any involvement, and further tears away at the nuclear family format. And for what it's worth, I don't blame homosexuality for it, or same sex marriage. I blame the advent of easy divorce. Same sex marriage just turned it completely into a partnership arrangement without limitation, including false limitations like relative marriage, polygamy, simple partnerships for tax benefit purposes, etc.
Spot on. The government's interest was in encouraging stable nuclear, child-producing marriages for myriad reasons. But once that ideal was broken, then there is really no legal reason to deny any particular set of individual from being married by the state. If it is just about "love wins" then who is the government to tell one who one(s) can love.
ATL Bear
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Harrison Bergeron said:

ATL Bear said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

The government regulating marriage should be as ridiculous as the government regulating baptism, but religious leaders were foolish enough to let the government get involved with marriage early on. The wise ones probably knew eventually something like this would happen.

This same argument happened when marriages started taking place under government officials, in courtrooms. They, just like you, didn't realize that the government simply must be fair. I'm not engaging in the polygamy argument.
The government uses law to incentivize and encourage certain behaviors. There is a clear origin of why the government "got involved" with marriage. Moving completely away from its origin and format makes it unnecessary for any involvement, and further tears away at the nuclear family format. And for what it's worth, I don't blame homosexuality for it, or same sex marriage. I blame the advent of easy divorce. Same sex marriage just turned it completely into a partnership arrangement without limitation, including false limitations like relative marriage, polygamy, simple partnerships for tax benefit purposes, etc.
Spot on. The government's interest was in encouraging stable nuclear, child-producing marriages for myriad reasons. But once that ideal was broken, then there is really no legal reason to deny any particular set of individual from being married by the state. If it is just about "love wins" then who is the government to tell one who one(s) can love.
Yep. Reality is it never had anything to do with love.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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2024 Republicans learn to harvest ballots and sweep to power in the Senate, House, and White House. Congress passes legislation that permits divorce under only the following circumstances:

1. Adultery;

2. Substance Abuse;

3. Physical Abuse; or

4. Abandonment.

Still think the feds need to be involved?
Redbrickbear
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He Hate Me said:

2024 Republicans learn to harvest ballots and sweep to power in the Senate, House, and White House. Congress passes legislation that permits divorce under only the following circumstances:

1. Adultery;

2. Substance Abuse;

3. Physical Abuse; or

4. Abandonment.

Still think the feds need to be involved?


That is too beneficial of a law to ever be passed by Congress.

It would reduce the family disfunction in the working class by 50% or more.

A world where 70% of Black babies, 50% of Hispanic babies, and 35% of White babies are not born out of wedlock to single mothers is just not the kind of world our rulers want.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Redbrickbear said:

He Hate Me said:

2024 Republicans learn to harvest ballots and sweep to power in the Senate, House, and White House. Congress passes legislation that permits divorce under only the following circumstances:

1. Adultery;

2. Substance Abuse;

3. Physical Abuse; or

4. Abandonment.

Still think the feds need to be involved?


That is too beneficial of a law to ever be passed by Congress.

It would reduce the family distinction in working class by 50% or more.

A world where 70% of Black babies, 50% of Hispanic babies, and 35% of White babies are not born out of wedlock to single mothers is just not the kind of world our rulers want.
That is another good one. Congress could pass a law that if a child is receiving Medicaid, ChIP, or one or both of the child's parents are receiving benefits, the parents must get married and reside under the same roof.
GrowlTowel
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ron.reagan said:

Doc Holliday said:

C. Jordan said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

20 SEC. 6. NO IMPACT ON RELIGIOUS LIBERTY AND 21 CONSCIENCE. 22 (a) IN GENERAL.Nothing in this Act, or any 23 amendment made by this Act, shall be construed to 24 diminish or abrogate a religious liberty or conscience protection 25 otherwise available to an individual or organization under 26 the Constitution of the United States or Federal law.
There you go.

The good bishop still doesn't have to do gay or interracial marriages if he doesn't want to.
Do you and your church support sex with the lower intestine?
If your wife isn't getting anal from you she is getting it form somewhere
Seriously, you bring nothing to the debate. Please go back to AA.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

No, you don't. You simply have to understand that your Fundamental Rights come from the G-d of the Bible and that if he says marriage is only one man and one woman, then the State should not deviate from His definition of marriage. Once you take a position on Fundamental Rights that is different than that of the G-d of the Bible, you will lose your Fundamental Rights and society will break down.

Said differently, our system of government and those who are elected officials have duty to defend Judeo-Christian morality and have Judeo-Christian values reflected in our laws. If they do not, then society will break down and eventually our form of government will perish or become even more unrecognizable and more unaccountable to the People.
ATL Bear
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He Hate Me said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

No, you don't. You simply have to understand that your Fundamental Rights come from the G-d of the Bible and that if he says marriage is only one man and one woman, then the State should not deviate from His definition of marriage. Once you take a position on Fundamental Rights that is different than that of the G-d of the Bible, you will lose your Fundamental Rights and society will break down.

Said differently, our system of government and those who are elected officials have duty to defend Judeo-Christian morality and have Judeo-Christian values reflected in our laws. If they do not, then society will break down and eventually our form of government will perish or become even more unrecognizable and more unaccountable to the People.
I'm as pro family as they come, but this is extreme IMHO. Not the idea that rights are endowed by our Creator, but that laws of morality should be codified according to a specific religious standard. Religious morality and guidance are those ideas we as humans need to live by ourselves in the midst of a secular world. But they naturally clash with freedom. The value of morality is self restraint in an environment where it is not required. When you begin to codify, you frame/limit freedom. That is what Islamic nations do. Indonesia just outlawed sex outside of marriage for example.

As I've said many times, the challenge of freedom is to choose not to participate in so many behaviors even though you may have a right to do so. Organized value systems such as Christianity are a critical part of that. Where the social battle is continually being lost is the open acceptance of destructive behavior, and the continued unwillingness to address it as such.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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ATL Bear said:

He Hate Me said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

No, you don't. You simply have to understand that your Fundamental Rights come from the G-d of the Bible and that if he says marriage is only one man and one woman, then the State should not deviate from His definition of marriage. Once you take a position on Fundamental Rights that is different than that of the G-d of the Bible, you will lose your Fundamental Rights and society will break down.

Said differently, our system of government and those who are elected officials have duty to defend Judeo-Christian morality and have Judeo-Christian values reflected in our laws. If they do not, then society will break down and eventually our form of government will perish or become even more unrecognizable and more unaccountable to the People.
I'm as pro family as they come, but this is extreme IMHO. Not the idea that rights are endowed by our Creator, but that laws of morality should be codified according to a specific religious standard. Religious morality and guidance are those ideas we as humans need to live by ourselves in the midst of a secular world. But they naturally clash with freedom. The value of morality is self restraint in an environment where it is not required. When you begin to codify, you frame/limit freedom. That is what Islamic nations do. Indonesia just outlawed sex outside of marriage for example.

As I've said many times, the challenge of freedom is to choose not to participate in so many behaviors even though you may have a right to do so. Organized value systems such as Christianity are a critical part of that. Where the social battle is continually being lost is the open acceptance of destructive behavior, and the continued unwillingness to address it as such.
We will apply Judeo-Christian morality through our laws or we will apply something else that is both substandard and not appropriate for our system of government. The Founding Fathers indicated as much.
Redbrickbear
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Harrison Bergeron
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ATL Bear said:

He Hate Me said:

Porteroso said:

Redbrickbear said:

Porteroso said:

He Hate Me said:

HuMcK said:

Why would it be struck down? The constant refrain from the court for a while has been something like "if Congress cares about an issue, they should legislate it". Hence the push to get Sinema and Manchin on board with "codifying" Roe after SCOTUS invalidated it. Here they are codifying the legality of same-sex/interracial marriage in the event the Court overturns Obergfell or Loving (both of which Thomas has openly declared are next on the conservative agenda).


Regulation of marriage is the proper domaine of the States. Not every contentious issue should be resolved in Washington. The Court's jurisprudence on the Interstate Commerce Clause is in need of an overhaul.

Marriage is probably a federal matter. It should never have been a government matter, but the government felt the need to get its grubby hands on it.

The Constitution guarantees certain base rights, among them liberty, and the ability to pursue happiness. Gays have a strong argument that marriage is something they want in order to live the lives they want to.

Also, once the government got its hands on marriage, it turned from a religious practice to a government institution, and the government must be fair.

You should note that if the government had nothing to do with it, gay marriage would have been possible in every state since long ago. Churches who would marry gays have been around a long time.


The same argument can be made for polygamists.

With the added aspect that they can claim it as a religious belief.

If the definition of marriage can be changed from 1 man and 1 woman….then why deny that "right" to the FLDS or the wahhabi Muslims?

I have never heard a homosexual claim they needed this right for their spiritual benefit or for their place in the afterlife. The FLDS can claim that

When did the government define marriage as 1 man and 1 woman? My point is that you have to strip away the tradition of marriage and its norms when the government gets ahold of it, because then it's a government institution.

No, you don't. You simply have to understand that your Fundamental Rights come from the G-d of the Bible and that if he says marriage is only one man and one woman, then the State should not deviate from His definition of marriage. Once you take a position on Fundamental Rights that is different than that of the G-d of the Bible, you will lose your Fundamental Rights and society will break down.

Said differently, our system of government and those who are elected officials have duty to defend Judeo-Christian morality and have Judeo-Christian values reflected in our laws. If they do not, then society will break down and eventually our form of government will perish or become even more unrecognizable and more unaccountable to the People.
I'm as pro family as they come, but this is extreme IMHO. Not the idea that rights are endowed by our Creator, but that laws of morality should be codified according to a specific religious standard. Religious morality and guidance are those ideas we as humans need to live by ourselves in the midst of a secular world. But they naturally clash with freedom. The value of morality is self restraint in an environment where it is not required. When you begin to codify, you frame/limit freedom. That is what Islamic nations do. Indonesia just outlawed sex outside of marriage for example.

As I've said many times, the challenge of freedom is to choose not to participate in so many behaviors even though you may have a right to do so. Organized value systems such as Christianity are a critical part of that. Where the social battle is continually being lost is the open acceptance of destructive behavior, and the continued unwillingness to address it as such.
I actually agree with everyone. I am reminded of a wise man that once pointed out the obvious - while much of the Bible, particularly the OT, is theological, there is a great part of the Law and the Gospels that are just good, practically guides to living. So even if not wrapped in Judeo-Christian tradition, society has a basic need for strong, two-parent, child-producing marriages regardless of whether one is a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, atheist, etc. One practical value the Church and religion in general was to underscore this importance and encourage behaviors that built not destroyed society. Gay marriage did not start to problem but it added gasoline to the fire.
Jack Bauer
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Redbrickbear said:


Love wins you f***ing fascists!!!!!!!!!
Harrison Bergeron
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Jack Bauer said:

Redbrickbear said:


Love wins you f***ing fascists!!!!!!!!!
Remember when the fascists tried to label "Slippery Slope" a fallacy?

They are not going to stop until they create a global, authoritarian regime.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Jack Bauer said:

Redbrickbear said:


Love wins you f***ing fascists!!!!!!!!!
Remember: You cannot legislate morality. But you can legislate immorality.

Remember: You cannot push the Judeo-Christian religion on others. But others will push their hyper-secular agenda on you.


Pick a side. There is no middle. If G-d be G-d, then worship him. If Baal be god, then worship him.
Doc Holliday
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We need a 'respect for taxpayers' act.
Redbrickbear
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[On Monday the Supreme Court heard oral arguments in 303 Creative v. Elenis, another case involving a conflict between Colorado's civil rights bureaucracy and a religious small business owner adhering to the traditional view of marriage as between one man and one woman.

The lead plaintiff is Lorie Smith, owner of 303 Creative, a graphic design business in Colorado. Smith wanted to expand her business to include website designs for engaged couples in the marriage-planning process. Smith is a Christian, and refused to create marriage websites for unions whose relationships contradict biblical norms, such as public adulterers, polygamists, and same-sex couples. She wanted to place a note on her website to that effect and "respectfully" direct those in such unions to other graphic artists in the area...

...Colorado's anti-discrimination statute makes it illegal to deny services to people on the basis of their membership in a protected class, and has applied the statute in the past to prevent religious business owners from declining to help celebrate the "marriages" of same-sex couples.

The oral arguments in 303 Creative favored Smith, as the Court's conservative majority seems poised to find that website design is expressive conduct and therefore protected by the First Amendment. The arguments nevertheless were evidence of how much ground defenders of traditional marriage have lost since Obergefell. Several justices implicitly compared the traditional view of marriage, as a union between one man and one woman for the propagation and rearing of children, to opposition to interracial marriage and opposition to the marriage of people with disabilities. Justice Jackson conjured up a bizarre hypothetical about a person denying black children access to a Christmas photography station at the mall, with the less-than-subtle implication that such discrimination is similar to the plaintiff's position on marriage.]


https://www.theamericanconservative.com/design-the-site-bigot/
Jack Bauer
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I think it meant to read "Mockery of Marriage" Act.



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