RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome. Nothing to see here. Trust your government. They would never lie to you!

---

So, there is no use in discussing. You set up a situation where either we agree with you or the Govt is rigging the numbers. Any lab, University or Agency is on the Government pay roll, so they are not reliable. The only reliable science are those that you deem credible.

So, what's the point of discussing? Make your proclamation.

---

Actually, Sir, you make my point. Literally millions are culpable for pushing the ineffective and sometimes dangerous vaccines. Doctors, nurses, government officials , government agencies that were originally set up to protect the people but have somehow been devoured by the widespread corruption. None of these humans want to or will ever be willing to admit they screwed up and made a mistake. That is just human nature.

You are correct in that even in 2023, this issue cannot not be reasonably or rationally discussed. And that is a shame.

---

Sure it can. But, if the anti-vaxxers are going to disregard the data or worse say that it is a Government Conspiracy it makes it pointless. All the data show that the vaccine served its purpose and saved lives. The context of the time and not knowing what we were dealing with warranted the use of a vaccine. You do not want to believe that.

South Korea right now is seeing a rise of COVID, which they are attributing to the vaccines wearing out. If it is a Government conspiracy it is all governments?

Now, I do agree that the shot should not be made mandatory by the government. However, there are consequences to that decision and organizations have the right to determine their employees need to be innoculated, including the military.

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome. Nothing to see here. Trust your government. They would never lie to you!

---

So, there is no use in discussing. You set up a situation where either we agree with you or the Govt is rigging the numbers. Any lab, University or Agency is on the Government pay roll, so they are not reliable. The only reliable science are those that you deem credible.

So, what's the point of discussing? Make your proclamation.

---

Actually, Sir, you make my point. Literally millions are culpable for pushing the ineffective and sometimes dangerous vaccines. Doctors, nurses, government officials , government agencies that were originally set up to protect the people but have somehow been devoured by the widespread corruption. None of these humans want to or will ever be willing to admit they screwed up and made a mistake. That is just human nature.

You are correct in that even in 2023, this issue cannot not be reasonably or rationally discussed. And that is a shame.

---

Sure it can. But, if the anti-vaxxers are going to disregard the data or worse say that it is a Government Conspiracy it makes it pointless. All the data show that the vaccine served its purpose and saved lives. The context of the time and not knowing what we were dealing with warranted the use of a vaccine. You do not want to believe that.

South Korea right now is seeing a rise of COVID, which they are attributing to the vaccines wearing out. If it is a Government conspiracy it is all governments?

Now, I do agree that the shot should not be made mandatory by the government. However, there are consequences to that decision and organizations have the right to determine their employees need to be innoculated, including the military.

---

I do not like the term, "anti-vaxxer." When I was growing up, if you took a vaccine, it prevented you from getting the disease. I much prefer the term "anti Covid vaxxer. " Although I will not force my opinion on anyone, anybody that wants to sign themselves up for a monthly booster are free to do so. Life is all about decisions.

The single event that underscored the lunacy of U.S. Covid policy to me was when #1 tennis player in the world, Novak Djokovic, was banned from entering the country to play in the U.S. Open. All the while MILLIONS of illegal immigrants were allowed to enter the country with no Covid vaccination. My heart still goes out to anyone that was fired from their job for refusing to inject a vaccine that does not work.

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

Where did you get these stats from?

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Sudden Adult Death Syndrome. Nothing to see here. Trust your government. They would never lie to you!

---

So, there is no use in discussing. You set up a situation where either we agree with you or the Govt is rigging the numbers. Any lab, University or Agency is on the Government pay roll, so they are not reliable. The only reliable science are those that you deem credible.

So, what's the point of discussing? Make your proclamation.

---

Actually, Sir, you make my point. Literally millions are culpable for pushing the ineffective and sometimes dangerous vaccines. Doctors, nurses, government officials , government agencies that were originally set up to protect the people but have somehow been devoured by the widespread corruption. None of these humans want to or will ever be willing to admit they screwed up and made a mistake. That is just human nature.

You are correct in that even in 2023, this issue cannot not be reasonably or rationally discussed. And that is a shame.

---

Sure it can. But, if the anti-vaxxers are going to disregard the data or worse say that it is a Government Conspiracy it makes it pointless. All the data show that the vaccine served its purpose and saved lives. The context of the time and not knowing what we were dealing with warranted the use of a vaccine. You do not want to believe that.

South Korea right now is seeing a rise of COVID, which they are attributing to the vaccines wearing out. If it is a Government conspiracy it is all governments?

Now, I do agree that the shot should not be made mandatory by the government. However, there are consequences to that decision and organizations have the right to determine their employees need to be innoculated, including the military.

---

I do not like the term, "anti-vaxxer." When I was growing up, if you took a vaccine, it prevented you from getting the disease. I much prefer the term "anti Covid vaxxer. " Although I will not force my opinion on anyone, anybody that wants to sign themselves up for a monthly booster are free to do so. Life is all about decisions.

The single event that underscored the lunacy of U.S. Covid policy to me was when #1 tennis player in the world, Novak Djokovic, was banned from entering the country to play in the U.S. Open. All the while MILLIONS of illegal immigrants were allowed to enter the country with no Covid vaccination. My heart still goes out to anyone that was fired from their job for refusing to inject a vaccine that does not work.

---

Ok, anti-COVID inoculation. Better?

All the data I have seen states the inoculation did its job and kept the medical establishment from being over-run. When we have causation studies that show the MRNA vaccine caused the deaths you mentioned, I will be the first to look at it and evaluate.

But, there is no causation studies and when there were side-effects the CDC came out and said which populations should not be using the shot. Here is the CDC guidance, looks pretty comprehensive to me. They say not to take it in certain situations, as you would expect.

Clinical Guidance for COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

Where did you get these stats from?

---

Apparently some of my numbers were actually understating the position.

I posted a study further up this page about partisan disparities for COVID deaths. I also recall that something like 80% of covid deaths during Delta were unvaccinated.

Police deaths:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324

Myocarditis risks:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/#:~:text=The%20relative%20risk%20(RR)%20for,%2D2.65%2C%20vaccine%20group).

Quote:

---

The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.0919.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am. The only thing I can tell you on this subject with 100 percent certainty is that I will not die as a result of taking the Covid vaccine.

It is still fascinating to me that a disease has somehow turned into a political flash point. Efficacy and safety of vaccines should be something ALL Americans want. This should not be a partisan issue.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am. The only thing I can tell you on this subject with 100 percent certainty is that I will not die as a result of taking the Covid vaccine.

It is still fascinating to me that a disease has somehow turned into a political flash point. Efficacy and safety of vaccines should be something ALL Americans want. This should not be a partisan issue.

---

Well said.

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am. The only thing I can tell you on this subject with 100 percent certainty is that I will not die as a result of taking the Covid vaccine.

It is still fascinating to me that a disease has somehow turned into a political flash point. Efficacy and safety of vaccines should be something ALL Americans want. This should not be a partisan issue.

---

Well said.

---

Agreed. Weird how the fundamentalist regressive zealots make everything a tribal black and white litmus test for religious purity.

As usual irony abounds - in March 2020 Big Pharma was evil ... in November 2020 Big Pharma was omniscient.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am. The only thing I can tell you on this subject with 100 percent certainty is that I will not die as a result of taking the Covid vaccine.

It is still fascinating to me that a disease has somehow turned into a political flash point. Efficacy and safety of vaccines should be something ALL Americans want. This should not be a partisan issue.

---

Well said.

---

Agreed. Weird how the fundamentalist regressive zealots make everything a tribal black and white litmus test for religious purity.

As usual irony abounds - in March 2020 Big Pharma was evil ... in November 2020 Big Pharma was omniscient.

---

Let's be realistic. If you have a pandemic, wouldn't Big Pharma be who you would turn? Where it gets evil is what happens after...

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as I am. The only thing I can tell you on this subject with 100 percent certainty is that I will not die as a result of taking the Covid vaccine.

It is still fascinating to me that a disease has somehow turned into a political flash point. Efficacy and safety of vaccines should be something ALL Americans want. This should not be a partisan issue.

---

Well said.

---

Agreed. Weird how the fundamentalist regressive zealots make everything a tribal black and white litmus test for religious purity.

As usual irony abounds - in March 2020 Big Pharma was evil ... in November 2020 Big Pharma was omniscient.

---

Yep and remember occupy wallstreet when they supposedly were against government bailouts and money in politics? Banks/Megacorps/Wall street wanted none of that and made a deal to push their radical idpol nonsense and they fell for it.

They have no values and never will.

ron.reagan said:

---

Has anyone ever seen an anti-vaxxer with a full set of teeth?

---

Yes

And they live in big, beautiful homes as well.

Take 3-5 extensive vacations every year and wear either a Zenith, Cartier or Rolex wristwatch to their lunch appointments .

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

Where did you get these stats from?

---

Apparently some of my numbers were actually understating the position.

I posted a study further up this page about partisan disparities for COVID deaths. I also recall that something like 80% of covid deaths during Delta were unvaccinated.

Police deaths:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324

Myocarditis risks:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/#:~:text=The%20relative%20risk%20(RR)%20for,%2D2.65%2C%20vaccine%20group).

Quote:

---

The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.0919.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

---

---

How do you know these studies are sound? The NIH has been terribly wrong several times for many years. Do you just assume or have you really dug in and figured it out?

Wrecks Quan Dough said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/two-years-covid-vaccines-prevented-millions-deaths-hospitalizations
Two Years of U.S. COVID-19 Vaccines Have Prevented Millions of Hospitalizations and Deaths
It has been two years since the first COVID-19 vaccine was given to a patient in the United States. Since then, the U.S. has administered more than 655 million doses 80 percent of the population has received at least one dose with the cumulative effect of preventing more than 18 million additional hospitalizations and more than 3 million additional deaths.

---

There are more deaths since the jab than before the jab. That is quantifiable. The "prevented" deaths and hospitalizations are simply guesses and more propaganda from the side responsible for this sorry episode in our nation's history.

---

What a claim. Show us the data. Quantify the quantifiable.

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

Where did you get these stats from?

---

Apparently some of my numbers were actually understating the position.

I posted a study further up this page about partisan disparities for COVID deaths. I also recall that something like 80% of covid deaths during Delta were unvaccinated.

Police deaths:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324

Myocarditis risks:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/#:~:text=The%20relative%20risk%20(RR)%20for,%2D2.65%2C%20vaccine%20group).

Quote:

---

The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.0919.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

---

---

How do you know these studies are sound? The NIH has been terribly wrong several times for many years. Do you just assume or have you really dug in and figured it out?

---

Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Deny evidence > YOU ARE HERE

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"Life is all about decisions."

It sure is. Republicans died at about a (conservatively) 3:1 ratio compared to Dems after vaccines became avaliable. The # 1 cop killer in the US for 2020 and 2021 wasn't gunfire or traffic accidents or heart disease, it was COVID. Getting vaccinated cut your chance of ongoing heart problems (including myocarditis) after catching COVID down to about 1/6 of what it was without the vaccination.

Call it whatever you wan't, getting vaccinated/innoculated in 2021 was objectively a good decision for the vast majority of people.

---

Where did you get these stats from?

---

Apparently some of my numbers were actually understating the position.

I posted a study further up this page about partisan disparities for COVID deaths. I also recall that something like 80% of covid deaths during Delta were unvaccinated.

Police deaths:
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324

Myocarditis risks:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9467278/#:~:text=The%20relative%20risk%20(RR)%20for,%2D2.65%2C%20vaccine%20group).

Quote:

---

The relative risk (RR) for myocarditis was more than seven times higher in the infection group than in the vaccination group [RR: 15 (95% CI: 11.0919.81, infection group] and RR: 2 (95% CI: 1.44-2.65, vaccine group).

---

---

How do you know these studies are sound? The NIH has been terribly wrong several times for many years. Do you just assume or have you really dug in and figured it out?

---

Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Demand evidence
Deny evidence > YOU ARE HERE

---

Evaluate data, conclusions etc.

Do not have blind loyalty to ANY authority.

Add another one to the list:

After collapsing due to myocarditis, Oscar Cabrera, 28 yr. old professional basketball player posted on Instagram,
"I got damn myocarditis from taking a f****** vaccine. (I got 2 doses of Pfizer) and I knew it! Many people warned me...But guess what? It was compulsory or I… pic.twitter.com/TNqXVNsY6s

— Louisa Clary (@louisaclary) August 1, 2023

And another one. This time a starter off last years Houston Cougars team

23

"Died suddenly"

We should just rename the thread "Insights on Confirmation Bias."

Sam Lowry said:

---

We should just rename the thread "Insights on Confirmation Bias."

---

I kinda like "The New Normal."

Fre3dombear said:

---

And another one. This time a starter off last years Houston Cougars team

23

"Died suddenly"

---

No one under the age of 50 should have ever been allowed to take the Covid shot.

The CDC will never regain the public's confidence after the way they mishandled the COVID epidemic.

KaiBear said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

And another one. This time a starter off last years Houston Cougars team

23

"Died suddenly"

---

No one under the age of 50 should have ever been allowed to take the Covid shot.

The CDC will never regain the public's confidence after the way they mishandled the COVID epidemic.

---

Exactly. They didn't care. How many dying of cancer now because they scared them from going anywhere. And they have so many wrong headed foot soldiers. Some even in this board.

Fre3dombear said:

---

Add another one to the list:

---

He need another Trump Vax and he'll be fine.

NIH backed study seems to indicate N95 masks forced to be worn during lockdown could have exposed thousands to toxic cancer causing chemical damage.

Thoughts and prayers for the fools

We tried to warn ya

https://www.yahoo.com/news/33-old-brazilian-fitness-influencer-012912409.html

33 years old. Too young to die.

RiP Mike Williams.

Construction accident seems awful.