Would you support male and female strippers or porn stars reading books to children in public libraries in the accoutrements of their trades?Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Drag shows at Libraries
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56 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by BusyTarpDuster2017
Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Harrison Bergeron said:Would you support male and female strippers or porn stars reading books to children in public libraries in the accoutrements of their trades?Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Supporting something is different from being ok with it. And it depends on the accoutrement. Female clothes are not really comparable to a BDSM outfit. Flight attendant outfit? Sure. Plenty of drag outfits that would not be appropriate in public, but simply wearing women's clothes is not provocative the same way wearing a dildo is.
Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
You most certainly said, "...because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries." Now, after enlightenment, you state people are upset with THE adults who want to read to small children at libraries. There is a difference despite both being attempts to trivialize exactly WHO is being promoted as readers for children at publicly funded libraries.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
It really is disheartening, reading your take on all this. It's quite evident that there is a deficit in your thinking patterns. I truly believe there is a pathology here. At this point, I'm only gonna suggest that you have an adult you trust, like maybe a parent, read this thread and explain to you where you're going wrong, in loving fashion, and then go from there.Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.
You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?
You obviously have no idea what is a drag queen nor have ever been to a drag show. That actually explains a lot.Porteroso said:Harrison Bergeron said:Would you support male and female strippers or porn stars reading books to children in public libraries in the accoutrements of their trades?Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Supporting something is different from being ok with it. And it depends on the accoutrement. Female clothes are not really comparable to a BDSM outfit. Flight attendant outfit? Sure. Plenty of drag outfits that would not be appropriate in public, but simply wearing women's clothes is not provocative the same way wearing a dildo is.
just an "oversight" (wink wink)
SCOOP: Missouri school district invited middle schoolers to a drag show today without informing parents.
— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) January 20, 2023
The school claims they didn’t know there was going to be a drag show however the show was listed on the event website…
Full story here: https://t.co/aR13AKMfgp
Let me help you out here. The correct answer is: all of the parties share blame.Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
Incredible to hear all of the dumb@sses cheering on the circus freaks in those videos.Jack Bauer said:
just an "oversight" (wink wink)SCOOP: Missouri school district invited middle schoolers to a drag show today without informing parents.
— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) January 20, 2023
The school claims they didn’t know there was going to be a drag show however the show was listed on the event website…
Full story here: https://t.co/aR13AKMfgp
Home-school your kids. There are LOTS of resources for parents, and it's not nearly as difficult as it sounds. Get them out of public school. Now.
I suspect he's a twenty-something with no kids. That's the only reasonable explanation.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It really is disheartening, reading your take on all this. It's quite evident that there is a deficit in your thinking patterns. I truly believe there is a pathology here. At this point, I'm only gonna suggest that you have an adult you trust, like maybe a parent, read this thread and explain to you where you're going wrong, in loving fashion, and then go from there.Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.
You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?
Ever noticed how drag queens are always pudgy, fat asses?
Adults should be able to read stories in drag, and adult males should be able to dress up however they want if they are decently covered. If there is no problem with the dress, then a biological male in traditionally women's clothes should have the same rights in libraries as any other adult.Wangchung said:Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
You most certainly said, "...because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries." Now, after enlightenment, you state people are upset with THE adults who want to read to small children at libraries. There is a difference despite both being attempts to trivialize exactly WHO is being promoted as readers for children at publicly funded libraries.
Therefore, adults should be free to read stories at libraries. I'm stating my opinion, which is different than when I interact with others' opinions.
I've never been, but have seen clips on youtube. I think that makes me basically an expert?Harrison Bergeron said:You obviously have no idea what is a drag queen nor have ever been to a drag show. That actually explains a lot.Porteroso said:Harrison Bergeron said:Would you support male and female strippers or porn stars reading books to children in public libraries in the accoutrements of their trades?Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Supporting something is different from being ok with it. And it depends on the accoutrement. Female clothes are not really comparable to a BDSM outfit. Flight attendant outfit? Sure. Plenty of drag outfits that would not be appropriate in public, but simply wearing women's clothes is not provocative the same way wearing a dildo is.
Why can't you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It really is disheartening, reading your take on all this. It's quite evident that there is a deficit in your thinking patterns. I truly believe there is a pathology here. At this point, I'm only gonna suggest that you have an adult you trust, like maybe a parent, read this thread and explain to you where you're going wrong, in loving fashion, and then go from there.Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.
You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?
Blame for what? And can you explain why?Mothra said:Let me help you out here. The correct answer is: all of the parties share blame.Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
So you would be fine with strippers and porn stars reading to kids in lingerie and bikinis or banana hammocks?Porteroso said:I've never been, but have seen clips on youtube. I think that makes me basically an expert?Harrison Bergeron said:You obviously have no idea what is a drag queen nor have ever been to a drag show. That actually explains a lot.Porteroso said:Harrison Bergeron said:Would you support male and female strippers or porn stars reading books to children in public libraries in the accoutrements of their trades?Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Supporting something is different from being ok with it. And it depends on the accoutrement. Female clothes are not really comparable to a BDSM outfit. Flight attendant outfit? Sure. Plenty of drag outfits that would not be appropriate in public, but simply wearing women's clothes is not provocative the same way wearing a dildo is.
I have. But you have a mental impediment to where rationality isn't getting through. You need someone you trust to tell you this, not some guy on the internet.Porteroso said:Why can't you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It really is disheartening, reading your take on all this. It's quite evident that there is a deficit in your thinking patterns. I truly believe there is a pathology here. At this point, I'm only gonna suggest that you have an adult you trust, like maybe a parent, read this thread and explain to you where you're going wrong, in loving fashion, and then go from there.Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.
You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?
That's hilarious. These are traditionally the clothes of circus clowns and the wardrobe for Mimi from the Drew Carey Show. There is no redeeming value in this, only sexual gratification for the predators and virtue signaling for the parents of the victims and the vapid supporters of this atrocity.Porteroso said:Adults should be able to read stories in drag, and adult males should be able to dress up however they want if they are decently covered. If there is no problem with the dress, then a biological male in traditionally women's clothes should have the same rights in libraries as any other adult.Wangchung said:Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
You most certainly said, "...because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries." Now, after enlightenment, you state people are upset with THE adults who want to read to small children at libraries. There is a difference despite both being attempts to trivialize exactly WHO is being promoted as readers for children at publicly funded libraries.
Therefore, adults should be free to read stories at libraries. I'm stating my opinion, which is different than when I interact with others' opinions.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
This isn't about rights. Should adult males dressed in provocative women's clothing be reading children's stories to children? Not do they have a right to, but should we as a society openly promote and support this activity?Porteroso said:Adults should be able to read stories in drag, and adult males should be able to dress up however they want if they are decently covered. If there is no problem with the dress, then a biological male in traditionally women's clothes should have the same rights in libraries as any other adult.Wangchung said:Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
You most certainly said, "...because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries." Now, after enlightenment, you state people are upset with THE adults who want to read to small children at libraries. There is a difference despite both being attempts to trivialize exactly WHO is being promoted as readers for children at publicly funded libraries.
Therefore, adults should be free to read stories at libraries. I'm stating my opinion, which is different than when I interact with others' opinions.
In five years the virtue signalers will be too afraid to condemn pedophilia because the Gaystapo convinced them it's "homophobic" to do so.
Let's try this again. Ok, baby steps. Focus.Porteroso said:Blame for what? And can you explain why?Mothra said:Let me help you out here. The correct answer is: all of the parties share blame.Porteroso said:Wangchung said:Now you've changed the goalposts, though. You said the issue was mere "adults" wanted to read books at the library. This is an admission that your previous framing of the discussion was dishonest.Porteroso said:It's completely honest, and the root issue, so let's explore it. To me there are 3 parties present. The person in drag, the library sponsoring/allowing this story reading, and the parents taking their children to these story readings.Wangchung said:The dishonest part, in my opinion, is when you attempted to frame the discussion as "adults should be free to read stories at libraries".Porteroso said:What is dishonest about my argument? I can walk you through the logic behind it if you want me to. Otherwise, show me the dishonesty or just go ahead and shut up, troll.Malbec said:There have been quite a few intellectually dishonest posters here over the years, and you might be their chairman of the board.Porteroso said:Ultimately I hold parents responsible for the events they take their kids to, because I think adults should be free to read stories at libraries. Is personal responsibility not a part of your beliefs?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, here's your reasoning:Porteroso said:You can't blame sexual deviants for all the world's problems, as happy as it would make you. What a great scapegoat for you right-wing zealots. I see why the zealots in the middle east love beheading gays so much.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:HOW IN THE WORLD do you not blame the drag queens?? If you think it's bad enough that parents should be blamed for allowing their children to be exposed to it, then HOW do you NOT blame the ones who are willfully initiating the exposure?? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I swear, you have some of THE stupidest takes on this forum.Porteroso said:I don't know about that. Being ridiculous is sort of the whole point. I guess maybe any adult should know better but obviously not.OsoCoreyell said:And the drag queens.Porteroso said:
Drag is inherently and explicitly sexual, which is my main issue with kids being involved. But the parents of these kids get the blame.
- the overtly sexualized display of drag queens makes them inappropriate for children;
- therefore, parents who expose their children to it are to be blamed;
- however, the drag queens who are directly targeting children for exposure should NOT be blamed, because...
..."you can't blame them for all the world's problems" ????
Like you said, the absolute stupidity on this forum...
Assuming it's really just story reading, and not also a drag sermon being presented, what it boils down to is a biological male in traditionally women's clothes/makeup. Most conservatives take issue with this from the getgo, but what is society to do? Should we outlaw males wearing female clothing? To me it's a non-starter, because of my core American value- err on the side of too much freedom, rather than too much government control. So while I think it's weird, and totally don't get it, I also think it's fine for a biological male to wear traditionally female clothing. Period. They can read stories, they can do a drag show, they can walk around the mall, they can go to libraries.
The library I partially take issue with, however in the end if I can't fault the dude in drag, I can't logically fault the library. I do think the library could exercise a little more judgement or discernment. Is there a need to have provocative story readers? They couldn't find story readers that didn't make scandalous national headlines? But ultimately the library did use their own judgement, and decided they wanted this attention.
Now, the parents. Look, kids are going to hear curse words at football games, they are going to see pornographic material on shady websites or their televisions, they are going to be exposed to outright hatred and bigotry at school, and yes they might run into a dude in drag at the library.
No matter your willpower or good intentions, you cannot convince the adults of the world to never curse at football games, not film porn, teach their own kids hatred and bigotry to take to the classroom, or prevent men wearing whatever clothes they want. You can blame all those people for whatever you want, but it's a losing battle to even begin to fight adults doing adult things.
What you can do, is make sure you are rearing your child to discern the true nature of these things, and prevent your child from being excessively exposed to any one of them too young. The last being the operative phrase. It might mean not taking a 5 year old to an NFL game, putting a ridiculous filter on your internet at home, teaching your kids way too early about having to respect all humans regardless of what they look or seem like, or not taking your kid to hear a story from a man in woman's clothes, because that is a box of worms you can't seal back up. I'm all for these things, because ultimately the buck stops right there, at the parent.
Parents are responsible for their kids, totally. I only see 1 problem, and it's young kids being taken to something they are not able to discern and filter for themselves.
In answer, yes, the issue really is kids hearing stories from dudes in drag, at libraries.
Please. My issue is with the parents bringing their too young kids. Others have a problem with the adults reading the stories. I do not, as I explained. I never said the only factors were adults stories libraries.
- You have distinctly stated that you believe exposing children to drag queens is wrong.
- Therefore, isn't it wrong, then, for drag queens to willfully and purposely target children to do that very thing which you believe to be wrong, stated above? And wouldn't libraries that host these events aimed at children also be willfully and purposely doing that very same thing that you believe to be wrong?
Please answer this. This is very, very simple. If it's still too difficult to understand, show this to an adult.