Trump: These Hos Ain't Loyal

2,735 Views | 54 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Johnny Bear
Mitch Blood Green
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/politics/donald-trump-evangelicals-2024
Mothra
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When Trump was running in the primaries in 2015-16, he sought the support of several large evangelical churches in the Dallas area. My former church was one of them. One of my friends, who is on staff, relayed this story to me. Trump met with all of the Dallas pastors at my church's facilities. Basically, Trump was essentially looking for the pastors to kiss the ring. A few did, including Robert Jeffress. But then some of them, including my pastor, pushed back, asking where he stood on certain issues, and even asked him about his faith, and whether he had received Christ's forgiveness. It pissed Trump off. This gist of what he told them was, "Why do I need forgiveness? I am a good person, and haven't done anything wrong." A few of the pastors, including mine, told them it was actually unlawful for them to endorse him from the pulpit, and even if it wasn't, they would have a difficult time doing so. Pissed Trump off even more, and he abruptly ended the meeting and left with Jeffress.

The guy just doesn't get it, and never has. He can't understand why everyone isn't a sycophant who will pledge undying support no matter what he does.
Mitch Blood Green
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Mothra said:

When Trump was running in the primaries in 2015-16, he sought the support of several large evangelical churches in the Dallas area. My former church was one of them. One of my friends, who is on staff, relayed this story to me. Trump met with all of the Dallas pastors at my church's facilities. Basically, Trump was essentially looking for the pastors to kiss the ring. A few did, including Robert Jeffress. But then some of them, including my pastor, pushed back, asking where he stood on certain issues, and even asked him about his faith, and whether he had received Christ's forgiveness. It pissed Trump off. This gist of what he told them was, "Why do I need forgiveness? I am a good person, and haven't done anything wrong." A few of the pastors, including mine, told them it was actually unlawful for them to endorse him from the pulpit, and even if it wasn't, they would have a difficult time doing so. Pissed Trump off even more, and he abruptly ended the meeting and left with Jeffress.

The guy just doesn't get it, and never has. He can't understand why everyone isn't a sycophant who will pledge undying support no matter what he does.


I'm glad to hear that. I anticipate that Trump will go scorched earth to the end and the evangelical church will be in his pathway.
Johnny Bear
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Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.
Mothra
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Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
Johnny Bear
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Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Other than his known personal sins (which by and large occurred before he was POTUS) please list some if these "many things" he did in office to oppose Christian beliefs.
Mothra
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Johnny Bear said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Other than his known personal sins (which by and large occurred before he was POTUS) please list some if these "many things" he did in office to oppose Christian beliefs.
Just about every time the guy opened his mouth, he was violating Christ's second greatest commandment. His inability to control his tongue, I believe, was the reason he lost the presidency. He had fights and personal vendettas with just about everyone. His hateful attitude and comments were the opposite of Christ's command to "love your neighbor," and did great damage to the Christian faith, as many non-Christian Americans associated Christians (and especially evangelicals) with Trump.

If we are honest, the reason Trump was preferable to the Democrat was not because his policies were overtly Christian, or supported Christian causes. Outside of the abortion issue, it's difficult for me to come up with any legislation he proposed that supported Christian causes. Instead, he was the lesser of the evils. He got my vote because he did not support the the woke madness that has infected the Democrat Party. Many Christians felt the same way as me.
Canada2017
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Mothra said:

When Trump was running in the primaries in 2015-16, he sought the support of several large evangelical churches in the Dallas area. My former church was one of them. One of my friends, who is on staff, relayed this story to me. Trump met with all of the Dallas pastors at my church's facilities. Basically, Trump was essentially looking for the pastors to kiss the ring. A few did, including Robert Jeffress. But then some of them, including my pastor, pushed back, asking where he stood on certain issues, and even asked him about his faith, and whether he had received Christ's forgiveness. It pissed Trump off. This gist of what he told them was, "Why do I need forgiveness? I am a good person, and haven't done anything wrong." A few of the pastors, including mine, told them it was actually unlawful for them to endorse him from the pulpit, and even if it wasn't, they would have a difficult time doing so. Pissed Trump off even more, and he abruptly ended the meeting and left with Jeffress.

The guy just doesn't get it, and never has. He can't understand why everyone isn't a sycophant who will pledge undying support no matter what he does.


I'm glad to hear that. I anticipate that Trump will go scorched earth to the end and the evangelical church will be in his pathway.


Trump will soon go scorched earth on the Republican Party …..greatly aiding Dem 2024 election hopes.

Which is the single reason Biden's DOJ hasn't prosecuted Trump for mishandling top secret documents.

He is far more politically valuable to Dem election plans out of prison….than in it .
Johnny Bear
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Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Other than his known personal sins (which by and large occurred before he was POTUS) please list some if these "many things" he did in office to oppose Christian beliefs.
Just about every time the guy opened his mouth, he was violating Christ's second greatest commandment. His inability to control his tongue, I believe, was the reason he lost the presidency. He had fights and personal vendettas with just about everyone. His hateful attitude and comments were the opposite of Christ's command to "love your neighbor," and did great damage to the Christian faith, as many non-Christian Americans associated Christians (and especially evangelicals) with Trump.

If we are honest, the reason Trump was preferable to the Democrat was not because his policies were overtly Christian, or supported Christian causes. Outside of the abortion issue, it's difficult for me to come up with any legislation he proposed that supported Christian causes. Instead, he was the lesser of the evils. He got my vote because he did not support the the woke madness that has infected the Democrat Party. Many Christians felt the same way as me.

All you basically just said is the guy is a sinner - and I agree. By the way, I'm also one and so are you - we are just redeemed sinners trying to follow Christ with God's help. As far as Trump's situation in that regard, only he and God know what it is - my point is just look at what the man did in office to fulfill his promise to support and advance the issues evangelicals care the most about - chief among them being the right to life. Because of Trump's SCOTUS appointees, Roe v Wade is history and that's huge. Furthermore, the man otherwise also consistently supported this issue and other Christian values repeatedly from the bully pulpit he had throughout his Presidency. You can question whether it was truly sincere or not, but regardless, again - look at the ultimate results.

If you want to look at all of it as just "the lesser of two evils" then go ahead, but at a minimum it was at least decidedly that by a long shot.
Porteroso
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Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.

Its ok to be in love with the guy, but no need to pretend Donald Trump is a great representative of evangelicals. All you have to is peek a little at a Bible to know what Jesus' values were.
J.R.
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Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.
Jeffress is trouble! He is pathetic. Who in the world would attend his church?
J.R.
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Porteroso said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.

It's ok to be in love with the guy, but no need to pretend Donald Trump is a great representative of evangelicals. All you have to is peek a little at a Bible to know what Jesus' values were.
Corinthians TWO!
Johnny Bear
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Porteroso said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.

It's ok to be in love with the guy, but no need to pretend Donald Trump is a great representative of evangelicals. All you have to is peek a little at a Bible to know what Jesus' values were.

(1) Point missed entirely.

(2) I'm not surprised.
Johnny Bear
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J.R. said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.
Jeffress is trouble! He is pathetic. Who in the world would attend his church?

(1) Usual emotional name calling.

(2) I'm not surprised.
Mitch Blood Green
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J.R. said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.
Jeffress is trouble! He is pathetic. Who in the world would attend his church?


If I died tomorrow and they took me to Jeffress church for the funeral, I get up and walk out in the middle of the service.
Osodecentx
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Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
W appointed the justice that wrote Dobbs
Mitch Blood Green
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Osodecentx said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
W appointed the justice that wrote Dobbs


And Heritage selected all the Justices that went on the bench during Trumps term.

Trump made hypocrites out of good Christian people.
Johnny Bear
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Mitch Blood Green said:

Osodecentx said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
W appointed the justice that wrote Dobbs


And Heritage selected all the Justices that went on the bench during Trumps term.

Trump made hypocrites out of good Christian people.

Wow - and here all this time I thought only Presidents of the United States appointed justices. Never knew Heritage was allowed to appoint justices during Trump's term. Thanks for clearing that up!

Oh, and TDS makes otherwise reasonably intelligent people say goofy things!
Osodecentx
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Johnny Bear said:

Mitch Blood Green said:

Osodecentx said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
W appointed the justice that wrote Dobbs


And Heritage selected all the Justices that went on the bench during Trumps term.

Trump made hypocrites out of good Christian people.

Wow - and here all this time I thought only Presidents of the United States appointed justices. Never knew Heritage was allowed to appoint justices during Trump's term. Thanks for clearing that up!

Oh, and TDS makes otherwise reasonably intelligent people say goofy things!


Trump made excellent appointments & Mitch got the ship through difficult waters
Proud 1992 Alum
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I voted for Trump twice and would again because the democrat would be worse for America. But it amazes me that anyone thinks that Trump's relationship with Christians was anything but transactional. Christians supported him and he delivered on the Supreme Court appointments. However, Trump is a Christian in the same sense that he supports family values - as a useful facade. Part of receiving salvation is admitting your sins and your need for God's grace and Jesus' sacrifice. Trump is incapable of admitting fault and has said numerous times that he doesn't need to ask for forgiveness. My guess is he sees Jesus like he saw John McCain. "I like guys who don't get captured by the enemy." Probably sees Jesus as a loser for allowing himself to be crucified instead of destroying those who were harming him. It has been apparent for a long time that Trump is a truly awful person and not someone worthy of being our country's leader. And someone that Christians should be wary of embracing.
OsoCoreyell
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He was a better strategic choice than the Dem candidate that basically said everything evangelicals believe in is wrong, prehistoric and should be disavowed. I have no pretenses that Trump was any kind of a moral figure, and there are literally thousands of people that I would have voted for ahead of Trump had ANY of them appeared on the ballot. They did not, therefore I made a fully rational choice that was consistent with my faith.

As if Christians are the only ones that aren't allowed to do a cost/benefit analysis in politics. Please.

And for the record, the evangelical preachers (looking at you, Jeffress and Graham) that cozied up to that guy are gross!
jimdue
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Proud 1992 Alum said:

I voted for Trump twice and would again because the democrat would be worse for America. But it amazes me that anyone thinks that Trump's relationship with Christians was anything but transactional. Christians supported him and he delivered on the Supreme Court appointments. However, Trump is a Christian in the same sense that he supports family values - as a useful facade. Part of receiving salvation is admitting your sins and your need for God's grace and Jesus' sacrifice. Trump is incapable of admitting fault and has said numerous times that he doesn't need to ask for forgiveness. My guess is he sees Jesus like he saw John McCain. "I like guys who don't get captured by the enemy." Probably sees Jesus as a loser for allowing himself to be crucified instead of destroying those who were harming him. It has been apparent for a long time that Trump is a truly awful person and not someone worthy of being our country's leader. And someone that Christians should be wary of embracing.
This. Except Trump would not get my vote a third time.

BTW, I now see that Huckabee is peddling a silly DeSantos the great American hero mini book for kids on Fox instead of the silly Trump the great American hero mini books for kids. This is probably a pretty good sign where the Jeffries and Huckabee camp is moving in 2024.
Forest Bueller_bf
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J.R. said:

Porteroso said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.

It's ok to be in love with the guy, but no need to pretend Donald Trump is a great representative of evangelicals. All you have to is peek a little at a Bible to know what Jesus' values were.
Corinthians TWO!
Two Corinthians!
fubar
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Mitch Blood Green said:

J.R. said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.
Jeffress is trouble! He is pathetic. Who in the world would attend his church?


If I died tomorrow and they took me to Jeffress church for the funeral, I get up and walk out in the middle of the service.
This made me lol ... thanks, I needed that today.
Gunter gleiben glauchen globen
Porteroso
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I just wonder what you guys are even thinking, saying Trump delivered on representing evangelical interests. In my opinion, the fact that so many evangelicals supported him throughout did irreparable damage to evangelicals. Not in recent memory has there been such a clear example of evangelicals full stop supporting someone the Bible would be able to make into 100 parables.

And honestly even though he did deliver on the SCOTUS nominees, it's not like anyone knew how many he'd appoint, or how they'd vote, or whether he'd just change his mind like he always has, when convenient.

I think if not for the fact that he knew he would gain the ire of libs forever, he wouldn't have appointed those particular justices. A case of selling your soul for a temporary gain, and one day when the history books are talking about Trump's Christian fanbase, a lot of people are going to want nothing to do with any such Christianity. The Bible has a lot to say about people exactly like him. Not warm, nor cold.
Mothra
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Osodecentx said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.
W appointed the justice that wrote Dobbs


He also appointed Roberts.
Mothra
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OsoCoreyell said:

He was a better strategic choice than the Dem candidate that basically said everything evangelicals believe in is wrong, prehistoric and should be disavowed. I have no pretenses that Trump was any kind of a moral figure, and there are literally thousands of people that I would have voted for ahead of Trump had ANY of them appeared on the ballot. They did not, therefore I made a fully rational choice that was consistent with my faith.

As if Christians are the only ones that aren't allowed to do a cost/benefit analysis in politics. Please.

And for the record, the evangelical preachers (looking at you, Jeffress and Graham) that cozied up to that guy are gross!


You nailed it.
Mothra
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Proud 1992 Alum said:

I voted for Trump twice and would again because the democrat would be worse for America. But it amazes me that anyone thinks that Trump's relationship with Christians was anything but transactional. Christians supported him and he delivered on the Supreme Court appointments. However, Trump is a Christian in the same sense that he supports family values - as a useful facade. Part of receiving salvation is admitting your sins and your need for God's grace and Jesus' sacrifice. Trump is incapable of admitting fault and has said numerous times that he doesn't need to ask for forgiveness. My guess is he sees Jesus like he saw John McCain. "I like guys who don't get captured by the enemy." Probably sees Jesus as a loser for allowing himself to be crucified instead of destroying those who were harming him. It has been apparent for a long time that Trump is a truly awful person and not someone worthy of being our country's leader. And someone that Christians should be wary of embracing.


Well said.
Mothra
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Johnny Bear said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Other than his known personal sins (which by and large occurred before he was POTUS) please list some if these "many things" he did in office to oppose Christian beliefs.
Just about every time the guy opened his mouth, he was violating Christ's second greatest commandment. His inability to control his tongue, I believe, was the reason he lost the presidency. He had fights and personal vendettas with just about everyone. His hateful attitude and comments were the opposite of Christ's command to "love your neighbor," and did great damage to the Christian faith, as many non-Christian Americans associated Christians (and especially evangelicals) with Trump.

If we are honest, the reason Trump was preferable to the Democrat was not because his policies were overtly Christian, or supported Christian causes. Outside of the abortion issue, it's difficult for me to come up with any legislation he proposed that supported Christian causes. Instead, he was the lesser of the evils. He got my vote because he did not support the the woke madness that has infected the Democrat Party. Many Christians felt the same way as me.

All you basically just said is the guy is a sinner - and I agree. By the way, I'm also one and so are you - we are just redeemed sinners trying to follow Christ with God's help. As far as Trump's situation in that regard, only he and God know what it is - my point is just look at what the man did in office to fulfill his promise to support and advance the issues evangelicals care the most about - chief among them being the right to life. Because of Trump's SCOTUS appointees, Roe v Wade is history and that's huge. Furthermore, the man otherwise also consistently supported this issue and other Christian values repeatedly from the bully pulpit he had throughout his Presidency. You can question whether it was truly sincere or not, but regardless, again - look at the ultimate results.

If you want to look at all of it as just "the lesser of two evils" then go ahead, but at a minimum it was at least decidedly that by a long shot.


Actually I said quite a bit more than Trump is a sinner. To the contrary, he was a terrible witness and representative of Christian values and Christ's commands. Christians are known by their fruit. Trump had none. His personal life was a total disaster, and his presidency was marked by an endless stream of hateful rants toward those he disliked.

Again, I much preferred Trump to the alternative, but let's not pretend he did anything to advance the Christian cause. His justices overturned Roe v Wade, and he wasn't woke. That was about it.
Golem
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Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.


God Calls Cyrus
Isaiah 45:3 will give you the treasures of darkness and the riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by name. 4For the sake of Jacob My servant and Israel My chosen one, I call you by name; I have given you a title of honor, though you have not known Me. 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me…

Trump was a modern day Cyrus. He's clearly not a religious man, but he protected the rights and advanced the cause of those who worship God. I have no doubt God put him there, if only to change the SCOTUS in a very tenuous time. Had HRC appointed those justices, this country's constitutional rights would be lost.
J.R.
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

J.R. said:

Porteroso said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other modern era POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

As Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for and support the values of believing Christians, which - warts and all - Trump did his best to deliver on.

It's ok to be in love with the guy, but no need to pretend Donald Trump is a great representative of evangelicals. All you have to is peek a little at a Bible to know what Jesus' values were.
Corinthians TWO!
Two Corinthians!
correct, my bad!
Johnny Bear
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Mothra
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Golem said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.


God Calls Cyrus
Isaiah 45:3 will give you the treasures of darkness and the riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by name. 4For the sake of Jacob My servant and Israel My chosen one, I call you by name; I have given you a title of honor, though you have not known Me. 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me…

Trump was a modern day Cyrus. He's clearly not a religious man, but he protected the rights and advanced the cause of those who worship God. I have no doubt God put him there, if only to change the SCOTUS in a very tenuous time. Had HRC appointed those justices, this country's constitutional rights would be lost.


I generally agree, though I don't know that he advanced Christian causes all that much - other than on abortion. I think it's more accurate to say he didn't propose legislation or policies that hurt the cause.
Golem
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Mothra said:

Golem said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.


God Calls Cyrus
Isaiah 45:3 will give you the treasures of darkness and the riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by name. 4For the sake of Jacob My servant and Israel My chosen one, I call you by name; I have given you a title of honor, though you have not known Me. 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me…

Trump was a modern day Cyrus. He's clearly not a religious man, but he protected the rights and advanced the cause of those who worship God. I have no doubt God put him there, if only to change the SCOTUS in a very tenuous time. Had HRC appointed those justices, this country's constitutional rights would be lost.


I generally agree, though I don't know that he advanced Christian causes all that much - other than on abortion. I think it's more accurate to say he didn't propose legislation or policies that hurt the cause.


Stopping a raging fire is saving a city. Saving a city is direct support for that city. In this case, it was a formerly shining city on a hill.
Johnny Bear
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Golem said:

Mothra said:

Johnny Bear said:

Please give me the name of any other POTUS that did as much or more to support and advance the issues evangelicals most care about during their time in the White House - especially including Supreme Court nominees. Plus, just simply consider what the alternative was and is.

Plus, as Jeffress previously indicated, it was not about voting for your pastor or your kid's Sunday School teacher, it was about electing a leader that would stand up for the values of believing Christians, which warts and all Trump did his best to deliver on.
Trump did a good job of nominating conservative judges, and seems to now be pro-life, at least to an extent. In that regard, he was far superior to milquetoast Repubs like the Bushes, who nominated judges that were conservative in name only. I will always be grateful for that. But that does not mean he's worthy of undying devotion, especially from the pulpit. There were many, many things he did that were the opposite of Christian beliefs.

Edit: I've always said I will vote for Trump over the Democrat alternative, and I maintain that. I just think there are much better choices than him.


God Calls Cyrus
Isaiah 45:3 will give you the treasures of darkness and the riches hidden in secret places, so that you may know that I am the LORD, the God of Israel, who calls you by name. 4For the sake of Jacob My servant and Israel My chosen one, I call you by name; I have given you a title of honor, though you have not known Me. 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me…

Trump was a modern day Cyrus. He's clearly not a religious man, but he protected the rights and advanced the cause of those who worship God. I have no doubt God put him there, if only to change the SCOTUS in a very tenuous time. Had HRC appointed those justices, this country's constitutional rights would be lost.

I agree.

As your Biblical reference illustrates, God from time to time uses ungodly people for his greater purposes and for his glory. It doesn't mean those people won't personally face judgment if they remain in that state, but it also doesn't mean believers are somehow "hypocrites" if they realize God inspired benefit(s) from the actions of the people Gid utilizes - be they also believers or not.

Nobody is saying Trump has generally exhibited model Christian behavior in his life to date and nobody is saying or inferring he is or was some kind of evangelist for the Christian cause. Whatever the state of his personal relationship or non-relationship with Christ is or might become, he will eventually face judgment like all of us. He did, however, pledge to support and protect the values Christians (especially evangelicals) care the most about as a major part of supporting and protecting traditional American values in general and he governed accordingly. Stop and think for a minute what the SCOTUS would look like if Hillary had appointed those 3 justices. Overturning Roe v. Wade would've become totally hopeless for likely generations. to come at a minimum. Also think about the last justice appointed, who can't even define what a woman is. And beyond the right to life issue, ponder for a moment the immoral and out and out satanic type things that have been unleashed on the country the last two years that didn't happen under Trump's watch (which I don't believe is just some kind of a coincidence).

There were some big things that happened to the benefit of believers and their beliefs because of the election of 2016 and the attempt to minimize those things along with a general lack of gratitude by some believers posting on this site because of a personal dislike of Trump is pretty stunning.
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