How woke broke medicine

1,505 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Golem
Golem
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How woke broke medicine: public support for doctors has plunged by double digits, driven by conservative ire over trans surgery on kids, masks, and cringeworthy oaths

Doctors, nurses and pharmacists have seen approval ratings nosedive
Physicians saw a 15-point drop from the start of the pandemic until now
It coincides with a rapid, progressive reshaping of the sector, experts warn

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11658807/How-woke-broke-medicine-public-support-doctors-plunged-double-digits.html
Canada2017
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Golem said:

How woke broke medicine: public support for doctors has plunged by double digits, driven by conservative ire over trans surgery on kids, masks, and cringeworthy oaths

Doctors, nurses and pharmacists have seen approval ratings nosedive
Physicians saw a 15-point drop from the start of the pandemic until now
It coincides with a rapid, progressive reshaping of the sector, experts warn

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11658807/How-woke-broke-medicine-public-support-doctors-plunged-double-digits.html


At least here in northern Colorado there is a shortage of doctors and psychiatrists.

And younger applicants are not filling the slots of those who retire .

Insurance regulations, the threat of malpractice lawsuits and widespread burn out amongst the medical community ( primarily due to the COVID epidemic ) are creating a growing crisis .
whiterock
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"To spend less on medicine, we hafta practice less medicine."
(-my BU frat buddy cardiologist)

Medicare entitlements is a major driver of budget deficits.

QED
Porteroso
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Medicineisnot broken. The very people who say they distrust doctors because of masks will run crying to a doctor the second they notice a little mole they had missed before. And masks broke medicine? Really? If we are going to keep using woke, what term do we need for science denial deniers? I use zealot but it hasn't caught on.
cms186
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"How people use Woke to blame for everything"
I'm the English Guy
BearFan33
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The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
OsoCoreyell
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I don't know that woke broke medicine - but it has undoubtedly harmed medical eduction. That makes it no different than most other fields. I find it interesting that the same people that would freak out about a math class in a Chrisitan high school seeking to include specific spiritual lessons into the curriculum (I've seen this very thing, FYI) are just fine with including "racial justice" in college engineering and med-school physiology classes.
Redbrickbear
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BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Sam Lowry
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OsoCoreyell said:

I don't know that woke broke medicine - but it has undoubtedly harmed medical eduction. That makes it no different than most other fields. I find it interesting that the same people that would freak out about a math class in a Chrisitan high school seeking to include specific spiritual lessons into the curriculum (I've seen this very thing, FYI) are just fine with including "racial justice" in college engineering and med-school physiology classes.
Great point.
Sam Lowry
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Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
In other words, they broke medicine by practicing medicine.
BearFan33
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Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Redbrickbear
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BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
BearFan33
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Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
Jeez that pretty harsh and a bit of monday morning quarterbacking. For those that doubted what was being force fed, the "science" wasn't settled either way. Data wasn't allowed to circulate that was contrary to the narrative. But you do you. I've got to get back to work to cover my beach house payments.
Redbrickbear
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BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
Jeez that pretty harsh and a bit of monday morning quarterbacking. For those that doubted what was being force fed, the "science" wasn't settled either way. Data wasn't allowed to circulate that was contrary to the narrative. But you do you. I've got to get back to work to cover my beach house payments.
I'm certain many questioned what they were being feed at home and in private.

But they did not raise their voices against what was going on...and in many cases were the most aggressive attack dogs of the "trust the science or suffer!" wing of the ruling class mantra.
2020Bear
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Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
Jeez that pretty harsh and a bit of monday morning quarterbacking. For those that doubted what was being force fed, the "science" wasn't settled either way. Data wasn't allowed to circulate that was contrary to the narrative. But you do you. I've got to get back to work to cover my beach house payments.
I'm certain many questioned what they were being feed at home and in private.

But they did not raise their voices against what was going on...and in many cases were the most aggressive attack dogs of the "trust the science or suffer!" wing of the ruling class mantra.


Why don't you go to medical school, sacrifice 8-12 years of your life in training spending 80 hours a week in books, watch people die on a daily basis, and then in your time off listen to people who know **** all about medicine tell you that you're only doing it for a beach house. I mean it Redbrickbear, why don't you?
Sam Lowry
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It's understandable that some doctors wanted to try hydroxychloroquine early in the pandemic when cases were skyrocketing and little was known about treatment. It's also understandable that this was quickly curtailed. The drug has proven, effective uses for which many patients rely on it, and there was a real danger of shortages caused by panic buying. As it turned out, the right decision was made. The drug did not prove effective against Covid, and allowing people to hoard it would have done more harm than good.
Redbrickbear
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Him said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
Jeez that pretty harsh and a bit of monday morning quarterbacking. For those that doubted what was being force fed, the "science" wasn't settled either way. Data wasn't allowed to circulate that was contrary to the narrative. But you do you. I've got to get back to work to cover my beach house payments.
I'm certain many questioned what they were being feed at home and in private.

But they did not raise their voices against what was going on...and in many cases were the most aggressive attack dogs of the "trust the science or suffer!" wing of the ruling class mantra.


Why don't you go to medical school, sacrifice 8-12 years of your life in training spending 80 hours a week in books, watch people die on a daily basis, and then in your time off listen to people who know **** all about medicine tell you that you're only doing it for a beach house. I mean it Redbrickbear, why don't you?


lol because I'm a white protestant straight male who made a 1200 on the SAT.

I never had the grades for medical school. It's why I got a BBA at Baylor instead.

I have never discounted for one moment the academic achievements of those who go into the medical field.

And until this reaction to the pandemic had no reason to criticize or complain about the medical profession.
Sam Lowry
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

Him said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
Some of that is fair. Certainly lots of doctors bought completely into what Fauci, WHO and CDC were selling.

But for the first time in my medical career I saw national organizations, state boards and FDA threaten physicians who dared to question the "science" being presented.

Early in the pandemic I got threatening letters from the department of health for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (for myself). This is when nobody knew what the hell to do and people were dying right and left. One of my associates got a letter from the Mississippi Medical Board threatening to suspend his license if he were to participate in "misinformation" about the vaccine or covid treatments. I saw first hand leadership in our national organization go after a member for participating in "misinformation" about what the vaccine was doing. Anyone publicly questioning vaccine effectiveness/safety or treatment methods were deplatformed and ostracized. These kinds of things have real consequences in the medical field, esp in academia where a significant pushback may have slowed the tyrannical behavior.

This is not how it has worked in the past or how it is supposed to work at all. Normally, medical recommendations are argued about, tested, argued more about and eventually a consensus is reached. Even after a consensus is reached, people are free to challenge it without fear of persecution. None of this happened with covid.

Worse yet, as far as I can tell, no organization or institution has apologized for their behavior so I fear this will happen again.....
Yea,

Either through Doctors being cowered by the medical establishment from fear or a sense of financial/career preservation...in the end they failed to stand up against the tide and advocate for their patients and for medical freedom.

Its changed the way I look at Doctors forever.

I used to see a serious community leader behind that white coat...now I see a man or woman who will do whatever it takes to get along and keep making those lake house/beach house mortgage payments.
Jeez that pretty harsh and a bit of monday morning quarterbacking. For those that doubted what was being force fed, the "science" wasn't settled either way. Data wasn't allowed to circulate that was contrary to the narrative. But you do you. I've got to get back to work to cover my beach house payments.
I'm certain many questioned what they were being feed at home and in private.

But they did not raise their voices against what was going on...and in many cases were the most aggressive attack dogs of the "trust the science or suffer!" wing of the ruling class mantra.


Why don't you go to medical school, sacrifice 8-12 years of your life in training spending 80 hours a week in books, watch people die on a daily basis, and then in your time off listen to people who know **** all about medicine tell you that you're only doing it for a beach house. I mean it Redbrickbear, why don't you?


lol because I'm a white protestant straight male who made a 1200 on the SAT.

I never had the grades for medical school. It's why I got a BBA at Baylor instead.

I have never discounted for one moment the academic achievements of those who go into the medical field.

And until this reaction to the pandemic had no reason to criticize or complain about the medical profession.
And there's even less reason since the pandemic. Overall, doctors and nurses did a great job under tremendous stress.
whiterock
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Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
In other words, they broke medicine by politicizing medicine.
whiterock
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
In other words, they broke medicine by politicizing medicine.

FIFY
J.R.
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Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Redbrickbear
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J.R. said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Did I say I was a Doctor?

Did I start this thread or call medicine "woke"?

p.s.

I have literally no idea who you are talking about when referring to me talking about neo-cons on this topic. I have not talked about neo-conservativism on this thread at all. I assume though that you know its a actual thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism#:~:text=Neoconservatives%20typically%20advocate%20the%20promotion,for%20communism%20and%20political%20radicalism.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

J.R. said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Did I say I was a Doctor?

Did I start this thread or call medicine "woke"?

p.s.

I have literally no idea who you are talking about when referring to me talking about neo-cons on this topic. I have not talked about neo-conservativism on this thread at all. I assume though that you know its a actual thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism#:~:text=Neoconservatives%20typically%20advocate%20the%20promotion,for%20communism%20and%20political%20radicalism.

JR obviously doesn't know what neoCon actually means and in any event it is quite amusing to see him call someone else a nutjob.
J.R.
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:

J.R. said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Did I say I was a Doctor?

Did I start this thread or call medicine "woke"?

p.s.

I have literally no idea who you are talking about when referring to me talking about neo-cons on this topic. I have not talked about neo-conservativism on this thread at all. I assume though that you know its a actual thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism#:~:text=Neoconservatives%20typically%20advocate%20the%20promotion,for%20communism%20and%20political%20radicalism.

JR obviously doesn't know what neoCon actually means and in any event it is quite amusing to see him call someone else a nutjob.
you fit the mold, pal! You and Reddick
Redbrickbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
J.R. said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:

J.R. said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Did I say I was a Doctor?

Did I start this thread or call medicine "woke"?

p.s.

I have literally no idea who you are talking about when referring to me talking about neo-cons on this topic. I have not talked about neo-conservativism on this thread at all. I assume though that you know its a actual thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism#:~:text=Neoconservatives%20typically%20advocate%20the%20promotion,for%20communism%20and%20political%20radicalism.

JR obviously doesn't know what neoCon actually means and in any event it is quite amusing to see him call someone else a nutjob.
you fit the mold, pal! You and Reddick


Red what?
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Redbrickbear said:

J.R. said:

whiterock said:

Redbrickbear said:

J.R. said:

Redbrickbear said:

BearFan33 said:

The terrible way the pandemic was handled by the WHO, CDC and Facuci has severely damaged medicine's reputation. It's unclear if it was from incompetence, corruption or both. Medicine should be separate from politics but that is no longer the case.
To me what damaged medicine was not the WHO, CDC, or "in the pocket of Big Pharma" Facuci.....it was the actions of average doctors and the general medical establishment.

WHO, CDC, Facuci represent the incompetency & group think of big government and the international organizations.

But the actions of local doctors, local hospitals, and public medical schools were far more damaging.

We expect local doctors to be rational and level headed. We expect local hospitals and public state medical schools to be community and public trust institutions that put facts, local conditions, and clients health first.

Watching them all follow unquestioning into lock downs, and militant face masking, school closures, and forced vaccinations and "trust the Federal officials" authoritarianism was shocking to see.

Watching the behavior of Doctors on Facebook and twitter was also eye-opening.

Lots of elitism and down right spite and mean spiritedness against anyone not buying into the narrative.

I went into 2020 respecting the heck out of Doctors....came out forever changed.
So, I'm assuming you are not a doctor and have no clue about medicine. Oh, and btw, stop with the "Woke"crap as it is really dumb and ridiculous . Also, stop with RINO and NEO Con. It makes you sound like a RWNJ Freak.
Did I say I was a Doctor?

Did I start this thread or call medicine "woke"?

p.s.

I have literally no idea who you are talking about when referring to me talking about neo-cons on this topic. I have not talked about neo-conservativism on this thread at all. I assume though that you know its a actual thing right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism#:~:text=Neoconservatives%20typically%20advocate%20the%20promotion,for%20communism%20and%20political%20radicalism.

JR obviously doesn't know what neoCon actually means and in any event it is quite amusing to see him call someone else a nutjob.
you fit the mold, pal! You and Reddick


Red what?
NeoCons are a small number of liberal Democrat foreign policy hawks who had outsized influence on policy in the Bush Admin. Pretty much the antithesis of right-wing nutjobs.
BellCountyBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I've been in medical sales for over 25 years and count many physicians as friends. My youngest daughter wants to be a physician and has been accepted to med school. Most of my doc friends in their 50s have advised her against it. Most of them hate their jobs now.
Golem
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BellCountyBear said:

I've been in medical sales for over 25 years and count many physicians as friends. My youngest daughter wants to be a physician and has been accepted to med school. Most of my doc friends in their 50s have advised her against it. Most of them hate their jobs now.


I have two close friends (anesthesiologists) planning to quit medicine soon, and a family member (GP) who already has this year. They all hate it. Partly because the bulk of their time is paperwork to comply with government regulations. Partly because the politicization by the Faucis of the industry has diminished the trust their patients have in them.

Any way you slice it, it's simply another Democrat generated problem.
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