Because only squirrely little white boys would buy the comics.fadskier said:
That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.
Except that she always involves race...she continues to be divisive even after she leaves the white house...Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Nothing wrong with the tweet.
I don't think that's the case here. I agree race is used to divide us quite a bit, but I just don't think that's the case with this tweet. She just said little black boys/kids have a super hero they can look up to.fadskier said:Except that she always involves race...she continues to be divisive even after she leaves the white house...Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Nothing wrong with the tweet.
Its call veiled racism.cBUrurenthusism said:What does that have to do with anything?J.R. said:And I'm sure you have a lot of "black friends" too!Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
You're probably right. If she wasn't so divisive for the past 8 years then I would be more apt to believe you.Bona Fide Bear said:I don't think that's the case here. I agree race is used to divide us quite a bit, but I just don't think that's the case with this tweet. She just said little black boys/kids have a super hero they can look up to.fadskier said:Except that she always involves race...she continues to be divisive even after she leaves the white house...Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Nothing wrong with the tweet.
Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
cBUrurenthusism said:
Rotten Tomatoes says 'best movie of all time' - (you DID NOT want to be the white critic that didn't give this movie the highest rating)
It's science
#WakandaIsn'tReal
Some people think she shouldn't do that because...well, because.Bona Fide Bear said:I don't think that's the case here. I agree race is used to divide us quite a bit, but I just don't think that's the case with this tweet. She just said little black boys/kids have a super hero they can look up to.fadskier said:Except that she always involves race...she continues to be divisive even after she leaves the white house...Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Nothing wrong with the tweet.
Bona Fide Bear said:I don't think that's the case here. I agree race is used to divide us quite a bit, but I just don't think that's the case with this tweet. She just said little black boys/kids have a super hero they can look up to.fadskier said:Except that she always involves race...she continues to be divisive even after she leaves the white house...Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:
Nothing wrong with the tweet.
Chuckle, really?fadskier said:I have true friends that are black and Hispanic. They are ashamed of your non-stop race-baiting and making everything about race.cinque said:Well, if you make real friends outside of your racially esoteric social circle, you're less likely to be comfortably racist.cBUrurenthusism said:What does that have to do with anything?J.R. said:And I'm sure you have a lot of "black friends" too!Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
Yes, chuckle, really?cinque said:Chuckle, really?fadskier said:I have true friends that are black and Hispanic. They are ashamed of your non-stop race-baiting and making everything about race.cinque said:Well, if you make real friends outside of your racially esoteric social circle, you're less likely to be comfortably racist.cBUrurenthusism said:What does that have to do with anything?J.R. said:And I'm sure you have a lot of "black friends" too!Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
Bona Fide Bear said:You seen the Spider Man and Iron Man comic books, right? They are white guys in the comics....fadskier said:That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.Bona Fide Bear said:Super Man white, Batman rich white guy, Iron Man rich white guy, Thor white, with long flowing blonde hair, spider man white, captain America white, green lantern white, the flash white. And yes, there are some super heroes that you don't identify a race with, but think of the big super hero movies lately (since movies is what the topic of this thread really is, not comic books which are mainly read by white teenagers), pretty much all white. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a super hero that young black people can relate too. Just like a black president is a good thing because young black children can have someone that looks similar to them that they can look up to. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about kids and kids trying to find role models as they find their place in the world.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:It's easy to not see color when all the super heroes look like you. When you are white, all the super heroes are white, so it's easy to imagine yourself as that super hero. But if you are black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., it may be hard to relate to a white super hero. Especially when you are a kid and you know you live in a world surrounded by people that are a different color than you, but you still don't fully understand the concept of race. But regardless, you'd still like to see a super hero that looks more like you, or more like your dad or more like your uncle. I'm not really sure why this is a bad thing.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
I think there are a lot of times race is misused and abused, but this is not one of those circumstances. And playing the "I don't see race" card in this instance means you are either ignorant to the issue or you are just making a statement to make a political point. Either one is unacceptable.
I'll give you Super Man and Wonder Woman. But do you really see race in most of these?
https://goo.gl/images/FHhFod
Ok? What does that have to do with this discussion? They may have taken a liberty on the character's height (for the record, even though we all know Tom Cruise the person is short, they don't go out of their way to point out his height in the movie), but last time i checked, Tom Cruis is still white, just like the character in the book. The more important thing from the movie and the comic book is that Jack Reacher is a badA and he happens to be portrayed as a white dude.Iron Claw said:Bona Fide Bear said:You seen the Spider Man and Iron Man comic books, right? They are white guys in the comics....fadskier said:That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.Bona Fide Bear said:Super Man white, Batman rich white guy, Iron Man rich white guy, Thor white, with long flowing blonde hair, spider man white, captain America white, green lantern white, the flash white. And yes, there are some super heroes that you don't identify a race with, but think of the big super hero movies lately (since movies is what the topic of this thread really is, not comic books which are mainly read by white teenagers), pretty much all white. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a super hero that young black people can relate too. Just like a black president is a good thing because young black children can have someone that looks similar to them that they can look up to. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about kids and kids trying to find role models as they find their place in the world.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:It's easy to not see color when all the super heroes look like you. When you are white, all the super heroes are white, so it's easy to imagine yourself as that super hero. But if you are black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., it may be hard to relate to a white super hero. Especially when you are a kid and you know you live in a world surrounded by people that are a different color than you, but you still don't fully understand the concept of race. But regardless, you'd still like to see a super hero that looks more like you, or more like your dad or more like your uncle. I'm not really sure why this is a bad thing.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
I think there are a lot of times race is misused and abused, but this is not one of those circumstances. And playing the "I don't see race" card in this instance means you are either ignorant to the issue or you are just making a statement to make a political point. Either one is unacceptable.
I'll give you Super Man and Wonder Woman. But do you really see race in most of these?
https://goo.gl/images/FHhFod
And in the Jack Reacher movies Little Tom Cruise plays a guy that's 6'5"/250 in the books. Movie producers take liberties all the time in casting and interpretation.
Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
Sure right after you explain how facts complicate things.Bona Fide Bear said:Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
I will get there, but we have to go through this little exercise first. So, as a kid, did you relate to Super Man?cowboycwr said:Sure right after you explain how facts complicate things.Bona Fide Bear said:Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
No we don't. You made a claim. Back it up.Bona Fide Bear said:I will get there, but we have to go through this little exercise first. So, as a kid, did you relate to Super Man?cowboycwr said:Sure right after you explain how facts complicate things.Bona Fide Bear said:Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
You are over complicating the discussion to divert the discussion, and you know it. Even if I give in to your stupid diversion, you still have no answer to Batman, Spider-Man, Iron Man and the dozens of other super heroes that are not aliens and are white males. You don't want to discuss the real topic at hand, you want to derail it with this ridiculousness.cowboycwr said:No we don't. You made a claim. Back it up.Bona Fide Bear said:I will get there, but we have to go through this little exercise first. So, as a kid, did you relate to Super Man?cowboycwr said:Sure right after you explain how facts complicate things.Bona Fide Bear said:Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
How do facts complicate things?
Bona Fide Bear said:You are over complicating the discussion to divert the discussion, and you know it. Even if I give in to your stupid diversion, you still have no answer to Batman, Spider-Man, Iron Man and the dozens of other super heroes that are not aliens and are white males. You don't want to discuss the real topic at hand, you want to derail it with this ridiculousness.cowboycwr said:No we don't. You made a claim. Back it up.Bona Fide Bear said:I will get there, but we have to go through this little exercise first. So, as a kid, did you relate to Super Man?cowboycwr said:Sure right after you explain how facts complicate things.Bona Fide Bear said:Ok, let's start over. As a kid, did you relate to Super Man? Simple yes or no will do.cowboycwr said:Sorry I keep distracting you with FACTS.Bona Fide Bear said:wow...are you ok? No really, are you ok? Lolcowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I explained how the "facts" of fictional comic book characters complicated the underlying issue. You chose to not read what i said, or try to understand what I said.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I knew I was wasting my time trying to explain my POV to you. You aren't really interested in hearing an explanation or defense of an opinion that is different from yours, you just want your opinion to be validated.cowboycwr said:Bona Fide Bear said:I can explain it to you, but I can't underatand it for you.cowboycwr said:I have never said I am a Republican so you failed there.Bona Fide Bear said:lol man, you're too much. Sometimes I think the democrats are the only miserable mother f'ers out there and then a republican finds an innocent tweet like this and says hold my beer. Like I've said multiple times, there are times that race is brought up to divide. That's not the case here. She just said the people involved in the making of this film did a good job and brought a positive super hero film that is centered around a black super hero. Nothing more than that.cowboycwr said:Providing facts is complicating it?Bona Fide Bear said:But they are depicted as white guys. Stop trying to complicate it. If you are a white kid, you have a lot of Super Heroes to look up to that look like you, look like your dad or look like other men in your life. If you are a black kid, you have less. That's all Michelle was saying.cowboycwr said:
Superman may be white but remember he isn't even human.
Same for Thor.
Sorry I didn't realize facts was to much for you to handle.
So I guess mentioning that a spider bite will not give you extraordinary powers would be way to complicated.
That is not all Michelle was saying. She was spreading division. Because constantly trying to have a black this and black that or complaining that there aren't enough POC or women in a historical movie like Dunkirk is nothing more than dividing.
Again how is providing facts complicating things?
Is it because it destroys the narrative the media, obama, and you are trying to spin?
Was Blade not a black superhero?
What about hancock (Will Smith)
Why do those not count?
So now please answer the question. How does providing facts complicate things?
Since no aliens are available to play Super Man or Thor, white people, that closely resemble the characters in the comics, have played them. Super Man, Bat Man, Spider Man, Iron Man (I could go on, but you get the point) are all recent blockbuster movies that featured white people playing super heroes. This is fact 1.
For background, i am a white male. As an opinion, when I was growing up, I was able to easily relate to Super Man, Batman, Spider-Man, etc. because they all reminded me of my father, or at least what I thought my father could be. And I could easily see myself as one of them when I was playing. If there would have been a black super hero when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have gotten into that character. Not because I was racist as a kid, but just because it wouldn't have been familiar to me, and to be frank, there just weren't/aren't that many black super heroes in comics. That doesn't mean I didn't find black role models in other forms of entertainment, but in the super hero realm, there just weren't many black super hero options and and I probably wouldn't have imagined myself as one of them if there were when there are so many "white" super hero options.
So now I imagine if i was a young black boy trying to find a "hero" in the comic book world. What if I wasn't into sports and music and I'm too young to understand politics, and I wanted to find a black hero, that resembled me and my dad, there aren't very many options. Michelle was simply saying here is an option for those young boys.
And yes Blade and Hancock are other black super hero movies, but it is telling that you had to go back 20 years to find a 2nd black super hero movie. Meanwhile, in the past 5 years alone there have probably been 10-15 super hero movies that feature a super hero that is white (or at least played by a white actor).
None of this is to say we "must make more black super hero movies", this is simply to say, "congrats on making a good movie that features a black super hero and gives young black boys a super hero they can enjoy and possibly relate to."
I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to make it more than that. Actually, I do know why they feel the need to make more of it, but logically i don't understand why.
And for the 3rd time in this thread, I'm going to repeat that I agree there are times race is brought up to divide, but i just don't think that's the case here.
Now I've taken the time to respond to your question. I'm sure you'll respond with some more anger, but I've tried to be as descriptive of my opinion as I could. If you can't try to understand where I'm coming from, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
What a long post to not even get close to my question.
I provided facts. You said the facts complicated it.
Facts should simplify it.
Facts do not complicate anything. They provide clarification.
The fact that people want argue about fictional characters is dumb. Almost as dumb as complaining there aren't enough POC in a historical movie.
I wasn't asking for your opinion. Or you to validate mine.
I was asking how facts complicated it as you claimed. You made the claim and can't back it up.
NO you explained your OPINION on fictional comic book characters and ignored the FACTS. And then ignored the question and still have yet to explain how facts complicate a situation. If the FACT that they are not human is dismissed of color does that mean that when humans one day encounter aliens that if they are white or brown and not black that they are automatically racist because the black will not be able to "identify" with the non humans? That is essentially what you are arguing by arguing about the skin color of a fictional alien.
I guess it is because FACTS destroy the argument and show how stupid it is.
FACT- they are fictional characters
FACT- they are not human so color is irrelevant
FACT- You have not explained how facts complicate the matter
If you were to hold up a picture of Clark Kent or Thor to someone that doesn't know anything about comic books, or maybe a young kid, do you thunk they would say "man that is a cool looking alien!" or would they say "man that is a cool looking guy!"? You are right, these are fictional characters. But even though they are fictional characters, they are depicted as really cool looking white dudes. Saying "well they are aliens, they don't count" is just an idiotic and sophomoric argument to make and it has nothing to do with the point I was making. And you know that. You are just trying to distract with nonsense like Cinque does.
And you are willfully ignoring all of the non-alien, white super heroes that still prove the point I was making. Stick to the point.
And if you forgot my point, my point was a little white boy can more easily relate to a hero, whether fictional or real, if they look similar to them or someone that is close to them. So it's easy for them to relate to Batman, Superman, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, Green Lantern, etc. because they are depicted as looking like white men, regardless of their origin story. And as a continuation of that point, a little black boy may have trouble relating to those characters, but may more easily relate to a black super hero. That is literally all I'm trying to say and you are distracting with nonsensical arguments.
but the FACT is they are aliens.
Case closed.
Everything else you say has no bearing on a human trying to relate to an alien because of skin color.....
ALIEN. As in not from this freaking planet.
As in not human.
Fictional as in not real.
THOSE ARE FACTS.
Please get that through your obtuse head. FACTS.
Try to spin it however you want but those are the facts.
and you HAVE STILL FAILED TO EXPLAIN HOW FACTS COMPLICATE THE SITUATION.
How do facts complicate things?
Iron Claw said:Bona Fide Bear said:You seen the Spider Man and Iron Man comic books, right? They are white guys in the comics....fadskier said:That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.Bona Fide Bear said:Super Man white, Batman rich white guy, Iron Man rich white guy, Thor white, with long flowing blonde hair, spider man white, captain America white, green lantern white, the flash white. And yes, there are some super heroes that you don't identify a race with, but think of the big super hero movies lately (since movies is what the topic of this thread really is, not comic books which are mainly read by white teenagers), pretty much all white. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a super hero that young black people can relate too. Just like a black president is a good thing because young black children can have someone that looks similar to them that they can look up to. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about kids and kids trying to find role models as they find their place in the world.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:It's easy to not see color when all the super heroes look like you. When you are white, all the super heroes are white, so it's easy to imagine yourself as that super hero. But if you are black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., it may be hard to relate to a white super hero. Especially when you are a kid and you know you live in a world surrounded by people that are a different color than you, but you still don't fully understand the concept of race. But regardless, you'd still like to see a super hero that looks more like you, or more like your dad or more like your uncle. I'm not really sure why this is a bad thing.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
I think there are a lot of times race is misused and abused, but this is not one of those circumstances. And playing the "I don't see race" card in this instance means you are either ignorant to the issue or you are just making a statement to make a political point. Either one is unacceptable.
I'll give you Super Man and Wonder Woman. But do you really see race in most of these?
https://goo.gl/images/FHhFod
And in the Jack Reacher movies Little Tom Cruise plays a guy that's 6'5"/250 in the books. Movie producers take liberties all the time in casting and interpretation.
Bona Fide Bear said:Ok? What does that have to do with this discussion? They may have taken a liberty on the character's height (for the record, even though we all know Tom Cruise the person is short, they don't go out of their way to point out his height in the movie), but last time i checked, Tom Cruis is still white, just like the character in the book. The more important thing from the movie and the comic book is that Jack Reacher is a badA and he happens to be portrayed as a white dude.Iron Claw said:Bona Fide Bear said:You seen the Spider Man and Iron Man comic books, right? They are white guys in the comics....fadskier said:That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.Bona Fide Bear said:Super Man white, Batman rich white guy, Iron Man rich white guy, Thor white, with long flowing blonde hair, spider man white, captain America white, green lantern white, the flash white. And yes, there are some super heroes that you don't identify a race with, but think of the big super hero movies lately (since movies is what the topic of this thread really is, not comic books which are mainly read by white teenagers), pretty much all white. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a super hero that young black people can relate too. Just like a black president is a good thing because young black children can have someone that looks similar to them that they can look up to. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about kids and kids trying to find role models as they find their place in the world.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:It's easy to not see color when all the super heroes look like you. When you are white, all the super heroes are white, so it's easy to imagine yourself as that super hero. But if you are black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., it may be hard to relate to a white super hero. Especially when you are a kid and you know you live in a world surrounded by people that are a different color than you, but you still don't fully understand the concept of race. But regardless, you'd still like to see a super hero that looks more like you, or more like your dad or more like your uncle. I'm not really sure why this is a bad thing.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
I think there are a lot of times race is misused and abused, but this is not one of those circumstances. And playing the "I don't see race" card in this instance means you are either ignorant to the issue or you are just making a statement to make a political point. Either one is unacceptable.
I'll give you Super Man and Wonder Woman. But do you really see race in most of these?
https://goo.gl/images/FHhFod
And in the Jack Reacher movies Little Tom Cruise plays a guy that's 6'5"/250 in the books. Movie producers take liberties all the time in casting and interpretation.
Iron Claw said:Bona Fide Bear said:Ok? What does that have to do with this discussion? They may have taken a liberty on the character's height (for the record, even though we all know Tom Cruise the person is short, they don't go out of their way to point out his height in the movie), but last time i checked, Tom Cruis is still white, just like the character in the book. The more important thing from the movie and the comic book is that Jack Reacher is a badA and he happens to be portrayed as a white dude.Iron Claw said:Bona Fide Bear said:You seen the Spider Man and Iron Man comic books, right? They are white guys in the comics....fadskier said:That's a very good point. But why did Hollywood make these guys white? Spider man and Iron man could have been any color...so could Hulk for that matter.Bona Fide Bear said:Super Man white, Batman rich white guy, Iron Man rich white guy, Thor white, with long flowing blonde hair, spider man white, captain America white, green lantern white, the flash white. And yes, there are some super heroes that you don't identify a race with, but think of the big super hero movies lately (since movies is what the topic of this thread really is, not comic books which are mainly read by white teenagers), pretty much all white. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a super hero that young black people can relate too. Just like a black president is a good thing because young black children can have someone that looks similar to them that they can look up to. I'm not talking about politics here, I'm talking about kids and kids trying to find role models as they find their place in the world.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:It's easy to not see color when all the super heroes look like you. When you are white, all the super heroes are white, so it's easy to imagine yourself as that super hero. But if you are black, Hispanic, Asian, etc., it may be hard to relate to a white super hero. Especially when you are a kid and you know you live in a world surrounded by people that are a different color than you, but you still don't fully understand the concept of race. But regardless, you'd still like to see a super hero that looks more like you, or more like your dad or more like your uncle. I'm not really sure why this is a bad thing.Jack and DP said:Bona Fide Bear said:
What's your issue with the tweet?
I've never really thought of super hero's in terms of race or color. Should we celebrate that martians have Hulk?
I think there are a lot of times race is misused and abused, but this is not one of those circumstances. And playing the "I don't see race" card in this instance means you are either ignorant to the issue or you are just making a statement to make a political point. Either one is unacceptable.
I'll give you Super Man and Wonder Woman. But do you really see race in most of these?
https://goo.gl/images/FHhFod
And in the Jack Reacher movies Little Tom Cruise plays a guy that's 6'5"/250 in the books. Movie producers take liberties all the time in casting and interpretation.
The point is, white, black, short, tall, movie producers can cast who they want. Denzel Washington could just as easily been cast instead of Cruise.
