My wife's epi pen was $10 now $200.
Why did it cost $1,000 to have my ingrown toe nail reduced by acid?

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/health/epipen-shortage-what-to-do-if-your-local-pharmacy-runs-out/417-582156783

BellCountyBear said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

My wife's epi pen was $10 now $200.
Why did it cost $1,000 to have my ingrown toe nail reduced by acid?

---

Because someone has to pay for the free loaders. Unreimbursed medical care (mostly ER visits) is at an all time high, especially in big cities. If you have cash or any kind of insurance, you are going to pay for yourself and them too.

---

Not necessarily. If you actually pay with cash you can basically get away with only paying the reimbursement rate. That being said, a lot of people don't pay for it. Not to mention that you can pay cash and as long as you send them money every month, they can't really do anything about demanding it.

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

Waco1947 said:

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I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

It's been that way for about 25 years. We also have more and more people using more and more services (aging society and terribly unhealthy society) as well as more and more people not paying for any of it. So, those of us who do pay for it via insurance or other methods are paying more and more for it.

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

They didn't read the bill

trey3216 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

It's been that way for about 25 years. We also have more and more people using more and more services (aging society and terribly unhealthy society) as well as more and more people not paying for any of it. So, those of us who do pay for it via insurance or other methods are paying more and more for it.

---

. Living longer means more health care. It's tough. We can't just let the aged go without care (says the guy pushing 71)

Is there any evidence that money in big medical (is that a term?) Driving costs via legislation.

If only there was process analogous to abortion but for the old or aged people we find to be too burdensome to society if we keep them alive any longer... I mean technically they will die without being taken care of by other people, so they can't support themselves - right Waco?

Waco1947 said:

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Is there any evidence that money in big medical (is that a term?) Driving costs via legislation.

---

That's part of it but the other big driver outside of those already mentioned is lawyers. Pharmaceutical and med device companies get sued regularly. And have you priced malpractice insurance lately???

Waco1947 said:

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I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

BellCountyBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

My wife's epi pen was $10 now $200.
Why did it cost $1,000 to have my ingrown toe nail reduced by acid?

---

Because someone has to pay for the free loaders. Unreimbursed medical care (mostly ER visits) is at an all time high, especially in big cities. If you have cash or any kind of insurance, you are going to pay for yourself and them too.

---

Who are the free loaders? Why are they driving up your cost?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Ah yes, the antithesis of the left...having to do work.

In everything, it is in your best interest to do your own research. That would include pricing hospitals, doctors and treatments. Before Obama, you actually were allowed to pick your own doctor. And you can tell your doctor which hospital you want to use. Just have to speak up.

CSIBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Ah yes, the antithesis of the left...having to do work.

In everything, it is in your best interest to do your own research. That would include pricing hospitals, doctors and treatments. Before Obama, you actually were allowed to pick your own doctor. And you can tell your doctor which hospital you want to use. Just have to speak up.

---

. I asked about your personal experience. I never in all my 70 years of health shopped price. Have you?

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

Waco1947 said:

---

CSIBear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Ah yes, the antithesis of the left...having to do work.

In everything, it is in your best interest to do your own research. That would include pricing hospitals, doctors and treatments. Before Obama, you actually were allowed to pick your own doctor. And you can tell your doctor which hospital you want to use. Just have to speak up.

---

. I asked about your personal experience. I never in all my 70 years of health shopped price. Have you?

---

Yes I have. I downloaded a list of hospitals, ERs and Urgent Clinics in my "network" then I researched how much each one will cost me - after insurance - then I made a note of which one(s) came out on top and that's the one I will go to.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

---

1. I had knee replacement surgery.
My orthopedic doctor was a member of my church. He said "You need a knee transplant but I don't do knees. See the guy down the hall."
2. I go to the doctor down hall "You need a knee replacement but I need a heart stress test and lung X-ray and your primary Dr to sign off that you're healthy enough."
3. I did it all and went to who they recommended.
4. I did the surgery. A huge success. I got my mobility back.
5. Medicare sent me some kind of statement that the estimated cost would be $67,000!
6. My first thought was ain't going to waste the taxpayers money. I'll do my rehab and return to my Habitat for Humanity volunteer work.
7. I asked the doctor at my 6 month exam. "Did it cost $67,000 for my knee and how much went to you?"
Dr: "I don't know. I work on contract and whether I do 1 or 5 replacements a week I get the same amount of money."
8. At what point do I negotiate?
How would you Doc negotiate that process?

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

---

1. I had knee replacement surgery.
My orthopedic doctor was a member of my church. He said "You need a knee transplant but I don't do knees. See the guy down the hall."
2. I go to the doctor down hall "You need a knee replacement but I need a heart stress test and lung X-ray and your primary Dr to sign off that you're healthy enough."
3. I did it all and went to who they recommended.
4. I did the surgery. A huge success. I got my mobility back.
5. Medicare sent me some kind of statement that the estimated cost would be $67,000!
6. My first thought was ain't going to waste the taxpayers money. I'll do my rehab and return to my Habitat for Humanity volunteer work.
7. I asked the doctor at my 6 month exam. "Did it cost $67,000 for my knee and how much went to you?"
Dr: "I don't know. I work on contract and whether I do 1 or 5 replacements a week I get the same amount of money."
8. At what point do I negotiate?
How would you Doc negotiate that process?

---

I would eliminate this process completely.

Your doc says you need a knee surgery and you can then shop around knowing the price being offered for the service prior to anything being done.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

---

1. I had knee replacement surgery.
My orthopedic doctor was a member of my church. He said "You need a knee transplant but I don't do knees. See the guy down the hall."
2. I go to the doctor down hall "You need a knee replacement but I need a heart stress test and lung X-ray and your primary Dr to sign off that you're healthy enough."
3. I did it all and went to who they recommended.
4. I did the surgery. A huge success. I got my mobility back.
5. Medicare sent me some kind of statement that the estimated cost would be $67,000!
6. My first thought was ain't going to waste the taxpayers money. I'll do my rehab and return to my Habitat for Humanity volunteer work.
7. I asked the doctor at my 6 month exam. "Did it cost $67,000 for my knee and how much went to you?"
Dr: "I don't know. I work on contract and whether I do 1 or 5 replacements a week I get the same amount of money."
8. At what point do I negotiate?
How would you Doc negotiate that process?

---

I would eliminate this process completely.

Your doc says you need a knee surgery and you can then shop around knowing the price being offered for the service prior to anything being done.

---

Exactly. Life doesn't have to be super difficult. Just put forth a little effort.

bearassnekkid said:

---

People don't price shop for medical services because they don't think they're paying for it. They think "insurance" is paying for it. So the actual consumer is almost blind to the cost (outside the occasional "What's my portion gonna be?" . . . which is really just a question about their insurance benefits/copay/max out-of-pocket/etc).

When this happens facilities charge random, high prices, and insurance rates go up and up. Throw in the extremely litigious nature of American society, and health care "costs" go up enormously.

I say this as someone who is in the healthcare industry, and who (prior to owning my business) was an attorney in the medical malpractice defense world.

---

This 100%.

Edit: double post

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

---

1. I had knee replacement surgery.
My orthopedic doctor was a member of my church. He said "You need a knee transplant but I don't do knees. See the guy down the hall."
2. I go to the doctor down hall "You need a knee replacement but I need a heart stress test and lung X-ray and your primary Dr to sign off that you're healthy enough."
3. I did it all and went to who they recommended.
4. I did the surgery. A huge success. I got my mobility back.
5. Medicare sent me some kind of statement that the estimated cost would be $67,000!
6. My first thought was ain't going to waste the taxpayers money. I'll do my rehab and return to my Habitat for Humanity volunteer work.
7. I asked the doctor at my 6 month exam. "Did it cost $67,000 for my knee and how much went to you?"
Dr: "I don't know. I work on contract and whether I do 1 or 5 replacements a week I get the same amount of money."
8. At what point do I negotiate?
How would you Doc negotiate that process?

---

Aka "Go see my buddy down the hall since I helped invest in his practice/pays part of the rent for the building I own/you won't argue because I go to your church"

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

---

Because there is no damn competition.

On what planet would you walk into a burger shop, order a burger and then have them tell you the price of the burger? It could be a $5 burger or a $200 burger.

That's how our current health care system works.

---

How does one create competition? Is that on me to search out price? Why do I see billboards that say "Come to my hospital?" I don't choose my hospital; my doctor does. How does one create competition?

---

Think about it:

If you want to buy a car, you can look online, you can search prices, you can haggle prices etc.
Let me show you a scenario where competition lowers costs:

Dealership 1: Car is $30k

Dealership 2: This dealership wants business so they drop the price of the same car that dealer 1 has by $3k for $27K.

That's competition driving prices down. It's why capitalism is the greatest economic foundation that we know of.

If you want competition, you take the government out of the picture and let the free market drive down prices. Anyone who wants a piece of the pie will have to lower their prices to steal market share.

---

. I Understand how competition works in car buying and burgers but how does it work on a personal patient basis?

---

Drug and service costs.

You don't know how much an x ray is, but if you were aware and could choose anyone, you would pick whoever is offering the lowest price.

Apply this same logic to virtually everything in healthcare.

---

1. I had knee replacement surgery.
My orthopedic doctor was a member of my church. He said "You need a knee transplant but I don't do knees. See the guy down the hall."
2. I go to the doctor down hall "You need a knee replacement but I need a heart stress test and lung X-ray and your primary Dr to sign off that you're healthy enough."
3. I did it all and went to who they recommended.
4. I did the surgery. A huge success. I got my mobility back.
5. Medicare sent me some kind of statement that the estimated cost would be $67,000!
6. My first thought was ain't going to waste the taxpayers money. I'll do my rehab and return to my Habitat for Humanity volunteer work.
7. I asked the doctor at my 6 month exam. "Did it cost $67,000 for my knee and how much went to you?"
Dr: "I don't know. I work on contract and whether I do 1 or 5 replacements a week I get the same amount of money."
8. At what point do I negotiate?
How would you Doc negotiate that process?

---

I would eliminate this process completely.

Your doc says you need a knee surgery and you can then shop around knowing the price being offered for the service prior to anything being done.

---

How would you shop around?

Trey said "Aka "Go see my buddy down the hall since I helped invest in his practice/pays part of the rent for the building I own/you won't argue because I go to your church"

It's Hillcrest Waco. I assume that the administrators have hired the best at the best contract price. And secondarily my insurance is PPO.
How would you personally do it?
Is the bottom line if more patients bargain hunt then prices come down? What about the quality of the physician?

Waco1947 said:

---

Trey said "Aka "Go see my buddy down the hall since I helped invest in his practice/pays part of the rent for the building I own/you won't argue because I go to your church"

It's Hillcrest Waco. I assume that the administrators have hired the best at the best contract price. And secondarily my insurance is PPO.
How would you personally do it?
Is the bottom line if more patients bargain hunt then prices come down? What about the quality of the physician?

---

in theory yes, but you use the combination of highly recommended physicians at the best rates. For "the best knee replacement surgeon in Waco" you may could get a really good one that isn't the best for thousands cheaper.

trey3216 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Trey said "Aka "Go see my buddy down the hall since I helped invest in his practice/pays part of the rent for the building I own/you won't argue because I go to your church"

It's Hillcrest Waco. I assume that the administrators have hired the best at the best contract price. And secondarily my insurance is PPO.
How would you personally do it?
Is the bottom line if more patients bargain hunt then prices come down? What about the quality of the physician?

---

in theory yes, but you use the combination of highly recommended physicians at the best rates. For "the best knee replacement surgeon in Waco" you may could get a really good one that isn't the best for thousands cheaper.

---

Some people will spend 30 min looking up restaurants on Yelp but never take a min to research their doctor.

trey3216 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Trey said "Aka "Go see my buddy down the hall since I helped invest in his practice/pays part of the rent for the building I own/you won't argue because I go to your church"

It's Hillcrest Waco. I assume that the administrators have hired the best at the best contract price. And secondarily my insurance is PPO.
How would you personally do it?
Is the bottom line if more patients bargain hunt then prices come down? What about the quality of the physician?

---

in theory yes, but you use the combination of highly recommended physicians at the best rates. For "the best knee replacement surgeon in Waco" you may could get a really good one that isn't the best for thousands cheaper.

---

Mine was under contract. He was paid monthly not by the number of surgeries. Plus what about complications? What hospital quality? Nursing quality? I am not smart enough to know all the questions to ask. I have 3 degrees and can somewhat navigate the system because as a pastor I helped many patients do it.
To negotiate price takes an education Way beyond the level of most people.
I think you are right it is competition that brings down costs but others (my insurance company for one) have experts doing that for me across the board in all kinds of procedures and medical networks. Insurance companies are highly motivated to bring down costs so they keep more my premium.

Medicare is also negotiating on my behalf because they too want to protect taxpayers' dollars.