CSIBear said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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RioRata said:

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Waco1947 said:

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I am asking a larger question. Why rising health costs - doctors, hospitals, insurance companies.?

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They didn't read the bill

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Sigh. It's intellectually dishonest to present that video without the whole quote.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-healthcare-pass-the-bill-to-see-what-is-in-it/

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haha even Snopes begrudgingly admits she said those words. And by providing the context all we learn is that not only did she mean what she said but she was busy telling tall tails and lies about how great the mystical bill was going to be. lol Turns out the bill was as much of a disaster as she is as a representative.

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No one said she didn't say it. But it's presented as if she hadn't read it. And the original post clearly inferred that -which is the opposite of the truth.

WHen you listen to her comments, it's clear she meant that the public will see how great it is when it's passed. It was a giant bill.

Btw, no death panels, yet.

And spare me the "disaster of a bill" comments. It's one of the more popular bills passed in recent history for the size of it and it has only gained in popularity as -wait for it- people have seen what was in it.

We can argue about the merit. But the facts are there. It has largely been a success despite the constant attempts to weaken or remove it by a Republican Party that has no plan to replace it.

So finally got the bill in for wife's emergency room visit at the end of July. Hospital bill was $3095. Dr bill was $250.

I had already looked at the hospital's medicare reimbursement rate online which was $2100 for the hospital and $140 for the Dr.

Made the call, and I'll be paying $2156 and $140.

trey3216 said:

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I'd like to see our healthcare system include gym memberships and other health pre-planning items into our annual out of pocket maximum or straight to the annual deductible.

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This idea is great and is being implemented already. Heck, I had to cancel my self employed insurance plan to join on my wife's corporate plan b/c it was far cheaper and had wellness based incentives (physical, BMI ranges, blood panels, etc) we have all met to drastically lower our premium.

I will say focusing on gym is the wrong approach though, massively inefficient compared with the food one eats to maintain wellness, but that is another thread. That is very much a "get sick THEN we will fix it" $$$ approach that has made our health care system the most expensive in the world with marginal/mediocre health outcomes. In other words, we shouldn't be focused on curing cancer, we should be focused on preventing cancer as data says we get far more for our dollar spent in prevention than treating.

Getting rid of insurance companies sounds great (my office deals with them in a negative way on a daily basis), but given the bulk of our population is either overweight and/or elderly, are we prepared for drastically changed fee schedules that will likely produce discrimination lawsuits? Who/what is going to float the obese population that is responsible for the majority of our health care costs?

Everyone cares about cost until they are sick, then outcomes are the most important.

Prairie_Bear said:

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trey3216 said:

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I'd like to see our healthcare system include gym memberships and other health pre-planning items into our annual out of pocket maximum or straight to the annual deductible.

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This idea is great and is being implemented already. Heck, I had to cancel my self employed insurance plan to join on my wife's corporate plan b/c it was far cheaper and had wellness based incentives (physical, BMI ranges, blood panels, etc) we have all met to drastically lower our premium.

I will say focusing on gym is the wrong approach though, massively inefficient compared with the food one eats to maintain wellness, but that is another thread. That is very much a "get sick THEN we will fix it" $$$ approach that has made our health care system the most expensive in the world with marginal/mediocre health outcomes. In other words, we shouldn't be focused on curing cancer, we should be focused on preventing cancer as data says we get far more for our dollar spent in prevention than treating.

Getting rid of insurance companies sounds great (my office deals with them in a negative way on a daily basis), but given the bulk of our population is either overweight and/or elderly, are we prepared for drastically changed fee schedules that will likely produce discrimination lawsuits? Who/what is going to float the obese population that is responsible for the majority of our health care costs?

Everyone cares about cost until they are sick, then outcomes are the most important.

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That's the gist of where I was headed. Rewrite the system to care more about preventative measures rather than maintenance. I mentioned gym memberships solely as a cost inclusive portion of preventative healthcare.

trey3216 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Insurance is shared risk that's we have it. Not everyone can afford health costs without shared benefit and cost.

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What if I told you unleashing the free market to it's full capacity would drop prices so low that they would be less expensive that what those with insurance currently pay?

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Tertific if your rich.

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You wouldn't need to be. I bet most of our grandparents weren't rich, they never really had problems getting their kids to see a doctor and dentist, etc.

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. Cancer, surgeries, people living longer, icu, CAT Scans all are not cheap

Waco1947 said:

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trey3216 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Insurance is shared risk that's we have it. Not everyone can afford health costs without shared benefit and cost.

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What if I told you unleashing the free market to it's full capacity would drop prices so low that they would be less expensive that what those with insurance currently pay?

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Tertific if your rich.

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You wouldn't need to be. I bet most of our grandparents weren't rich, they never really had problems getting their kids to see a doctor and dentist, etc.

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. Cancer, surgeries, people living longer, icu, CAT Scans all are not cheap

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You misunderstood my post. We never used insurance to pay for basic services in the past. We paid cash or trade. When we started using insurance for all services, it created a vicious cycle of service price inflation. The. We got extraordinarily unhealthy, further snowballing it. Then we started living longer and even more unhealthy on top of increasing our use of service both on the demand side and the supply side (read insurance based usage for even the most basic services).


No one, and I mean no one, should be using insurance for a basic doctor visit, basic checkup, basic blooodwork, a broken toe, 7 stitches in your hand. Cash. Money. Use it. It is cheaper

trey3216 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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trey3216 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Insurance is shared risk that's we have it. Not everyone can afford health costs without shared benefit and cost.

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What if I told you unleashing the free market to it's full capacity would drop prices so low that they would be less expensive that what those with insurance currently pay?

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Tertific if your rich.

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You wouldn't need to be. I bet most of our grandparents weren't rich, they never really had problems getting their kids to see a doctor and dentist, etc.

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. Cancer, surgeries, people living longer, icu, CAT Scans all are not cheap

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You misunderstood my post. We never used insurance to pay for basic services in the past. We paid cash or trade. When we started using insurance for all services, it created a vicious cycle of service price inflation. The. We got extraordinarily unhealthy, further snowballing it. Then we started living longer and even more unhealthy on top of increasing our use of service both on the demand side and the supply side (read insurance based usage for even the most basic services).


No one, and I mean no one, should be using insurance for a basic doctor visit, basic checkup, basic blooodwork, a broken toe, 7 stitches in your hand. Cash. Money. Use it. It is cheaper

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Damn right!