MilliVanilli said:

---

Well, my hope is that any self-identifying liberal would dialogue their conscience on the issue and why the modern left has silenced their conscience on the sanctity of human life.

I think that would be a productive conversation, I hope people will speak to each other and not at each other in it.

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MilliVanilli said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

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MilliVanilli said:

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quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

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Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

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Gunny Hartman said:

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Well first of all we have to call a spade a spade and recognize that current day Democrats are no longer liberals, but rather leftists, and the distinction is important. A true liberal is committed to the ideal of the word from which the term has its root: 'liber,' Latin for 'free.'

A true liberal stands for freedom in every sense: freedom of speech, freedom of expression, a free economic system, all around freedom from government restraint. They were inspired by folks such as John Locke and Adam Smith. But of course this is the antithesis of the modern-day Democratic Party, which stands in opposition to all of this, demanding control of speech, thought, economic activity, and desiring to insert its tentacles of control into every nook and cranny of society. And that's not liberalism, that's Leftism.

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Midnight Rider said:

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Last time I checked about 2/3 of Americans still support Roe v. Wade.

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303Bear said:

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quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

---

Please. That is a thin argument and I think you know it. Legal and dictionary definitions differ in numerous places but lets not pretend that jurists do not often consult other sources. Moreover the latest version of Blacks Law dictionary defines Fetus as "In medical jurisprudence. An unborn child. An infant in ventre sa mdre." Notice the limit to medical jurisprudence, e.g., malpractice, etc. Moreover, you and I both know that parties can, and often do, define their own terms in legal documents.

It seems disingenuous to claim that there is middle ground if only you would just occupy it when something as basic as language is still up for debate.

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contrario said:

---

quash said:

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303Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

---

Please. That is a thin argument and I think you know it. Legal and dictionary definitions differ in numerous places but lets not pretend that jurists do not often consult other sources. Moreover the latest version of Blacks Law dictionary defines Fetus as "In medical jurisprudence. An unborn child. An infant in ventre sa mdre." Notice the limit to medical jurisprudence, e.g., malpractice, etc. Moreover, you and I both know that parties can, and often do, define their own terms in legal documents.

It seems disingenuous to claim that there is middle ground if only you would just occupy it when something as basic as language is still up for debate.

---

You can't have a debate until you agree on terms. A fetus is not a baby. As the dictionary notes.

---

A fetus is defined as an unborn baby from 8 weeks until birth. Are you suggesting something magical happens to the fetus between 1 hour before birth and 1 hour after birth? At some point, humanity has to step in and we can't rely on just black and white definitions. Slave owners used similar arguments to support the continuation of slavery and it took free thinkers to question the definitions and precedent of the day to fight slavery. Just as we look back on the cowards that defended the disgusting practice of slavery, 200 years from now we will look back at those that defended unfettered abortion in a similar light. None of this is to say abortion in certain circumstances isn't understandable - if the mom's health is at risk for one - but it is to say that a fetus from 8 weeks until birth is not a baby, but then something magical happens the minute it leaves the womb and at that point, we can finally call it a human and a baby, is an absurd way to even start the discussion.

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quash said:

---

contrario said:

---

quash said:

---

303Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

---

Please. That is a thin argument and I think you know it. Legal and dictionary definitions differ in numerous places but lets not pretend that jurists do not often consult other sources. Moreover the latest version of Blacks Law dictionary defines Fetus as "In medical jurisprudence. An unborn child. An infant in ventre sa mdre." Notice the limit to medical jurisprudence, e.g., malpractice, etc. Moreover, you and I both know that parties can, and often do, define their own terms in legal documents.

It seems disingenuous to claim that there is middle ground if only you would just occupy it when something as basic as language is still up for debate.

---

You can't have a debate until you agree on terms. A fetus is not a baby. As the dictionary notes.

---

A fetus is defined as an unborn baby from 8 weeks until birth. Are you suggesting something magical happens to the fetus between 1 hour before birth and 1 hour after birth? At some point, humanity has to step in and we can't rely on just black and white definitions. Slave owners used similar arguments to support the continuation of slavery and it took free thinkers to question the definitions and precedent of the day to fight slavery. Just as we look back on the cowards that defended the disgusting practice of slavery, 200 years from now we will look back at those that defended unfettered abortion in a similar light. None of this is to say abortion in certain circumstances isn't understandable - if the mom's health is at risk for one - but it is to say that a fetus from 8 weeks until birth is not a baby, but then something magical happens the minute it leaves the womb and at that point, we can finally call it a human and a baby, is an absurd way to even start the discussion.

---

The magic gets defined in court. As I noted earlier, the terms have legal consequences. Not every fetus gets state protection.

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contrario said:

---

quash said:

---

contrario said:

---

quash said:

---

303Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

---

Please. That is a thin argument and I think you know it. Legal and dictionary definitions differ in numerous places but lets not pretend that jurists do not often consult other sources. Moreover the latest version of Blacks Law dictionary defines Fetus as "In medical jurisprudence. An unborn child. An infant in ventre sa mdre." Notice the limit to medical jurisprudence, e.g., malpractice, etc. Moreover, you and I both know that parties can, and often do, define their own terms in legal documents.

It seems disingenuous to claim that there is middle ground if only you would just occupy it when something as basic as language is still up for debate.

---

You can't have a debate until you agree on terms. A fetus is not a baby. As the dictionary notes.

---

A fetus is defined as an unborn baby from 8 weeks until birth. Are you suggesting something magical happens to the fetus between 1 hour before birth and 1 hour after birth? At some point, humanity has to step in and we can't rely on just black and white definitions. Slave owners used similar arguments to support the continuation of slavery and it took free thinkers to question the definitions and precedent of the day to fight slavery. Just as we look back on the cowards that defended the disgusting practice of slavery, 200 years from now we will look back at those that defended unfettered abortion in a similar light. None of this is to say abortion in certain circumstances isn't understandable - if the mom's health is at risk for one - but it is to say that a fetus from 8 weeks until birth is not a baby, but then something magical happens the minute it leaves the womb and at that point, we can finally call it a human and a baby, is an absurd way to even start the discussion.

---

The magic gets defined in court. As I noted earlier, the terms have legal consequences. Not every fetus gets state protection.

---

Ok, step back for a moment and use your brain. As I said before, slave owners and cowards that supported slavery relied on legal precedent and legal definitions to continue slavery. Are you going to use that as a crutch to ignore what is plainly obvious to everyone, even the staunchest of pro-choice supporters? Nothing magical happens to differentiate a baby 1 hour before birth from a baby 1 hour after birth. Anatomically, they are identical, they are human. It's science.

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MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

There could be common ground in the abortion debate but people like you refuse to occupy it. That's fine. Other folks are finding it and that's why abortion rates have come down.

---

Am I supposed to be impressed that a dime a dozen lawyer is trying to play semantics with a word that has meant human offspring since antiquity?

Talk about being a hack.

You're the insipid ideologue that came here with platitudes and is now claiming victim.

Seeming we were all unborn when babies, it appears humanity means nothing to you when it's at its most vulnerable.

You're no thoughtful person or peacemaker, you're a callous troll trying to salvage your indefensible nonsense.

You expose the lunacy of your position by backpedaling into the notion abortion needs compromise or brought down at all, if it isn't humanity being sacrificed then there would be no need to mitigate it at all.

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quash said:

---

303Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

quash said:

---

MilliVanilli said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Socialists are murderers and presently democrat party has become infested with socialists unfortunately

---

It's just lamentable that a universal truth such as let's not kill babies has gone away.

If liberals actually knew their history, they'd see many of their heroes (they would I guess now disavow) were champions of the sanctity of human life and it informed their liberalism.

You will not change any minds by confusing a fetus with a baby.

But you will cement your standing with the Red Team, and Florda will wave pompons for you.

---

---

Just because you're ignorant of Latin doesn't mean you have said anything intelligent.

fetus
/fds/
noun

[ol]

an unborn offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human baby.

[/ol]
Origin of fetus

13501400; Middle English < Latin ftus bringing forth of young, hence that which is born, offspring, youngstill in the womb, equivalent to f- (v. base attested in L only in noun derivatives, as fmina woman, fcundusfecund, etc.; compare Greek thsthai to suck, milk, Old High German tan to suck, Old Irish denid (he) sucks)+ -tus suffix of v. action



Damn that dictionary definition, what a pesky thing.

No wonder liberalism has devolved into madness, compassion and humanity are semantics to you people.

Here you were given a concise and civil history of a legacy you betray and your response is to put an exclamation point on stupid.

---

If the dictionary makes you feel better, fine. I come from a legal background where those two words mean different things. But you already saw that in your dictionary where they put unborn before baby.

---

Please. That is a thin argument and I think you know it. Legal and dictionary definitions differ in numerous places but lets not pretend that jurists do not often consult other sources. Moreover the latest version of Blacks Law dictionary defines Fetus as "In medical jurisprudence. An unborn child. An infant in ventre sa mdre." Notice the limit to medical jurisprudence, e.g., malpractice, etc. Moreover, you and I both know that parties can, and often do, define their own terms in legal documents.

It seems disingenuous to claim that there is middle ground if only you would just occupy it when something as basic as language is still up for debate.

---

You can't have a debate until you agree on terms. A fetus is not a baby. As the dictionary notes.

---