I w often wondered how people can afford these expensive cars. I Now know the answer.

http://www.businessinsider.com/auto-loan-delinquency-number-record-new-york-fed-2019-2

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

Yup...only drive what you can pay for in cash. I'll also add, It's foolish for a lot of people to buy a new car. I don't .

Doc Holliday said:

---

Most Americans are economically illiterate. This is nothing new.

---

Why do you have such a low opinion of Americans? You seem to love the name but think America is full of idiots.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Most Americans are economically illiterate. This is nothing new.

---

Why do you have such a low opinion of Americans? You seem to love the name but think America is full of idiots.

---

The default state of humanity is stupid, corrupt and violent. We are all born this way and it takes tremendous effort to get past it. This is why children behave this way without supervision.

Get that through your Judaeo-Christian lens that you see life through. Get real son.

In other words, don't go around assuming the best of humanity, rather do the opposite and you will see that it fits reality.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

If you can use their money for 1% or less interest why would you give them a pile of cash up front?

ValhallaBear said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

If you can use their money for 1% or less interest why would you give them a pile of cash up front?

---

Make sure you ask the dealer what the price of the car is if you pay cash and the price of the car if you take their so-called 0 to 1 percent financing. There is usually a considerable difference.

Your argument is a valid one. I struggle whether or not I should pay off my mortgage with 8 years left at 2 7/8 percent. I can't stand debt, but this is cheap money.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

ValhallaBear said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

If you can use their money for 1% or less interest why would you give them a pile of cash up front?

---

Make sure you ask the dealer what the price of the car is if you pay cash and the price of the car if you take their so-called 0 to 1 percent financing. There is usually a considerable difference.

Your argument is a valid one. I struggle whether or not I should pay off my mortgage with 8 years left at 2 7/8 percent. I can't stand debt, but this is cheap money.

---

Hopefully in a financial world of ZIRP and 30 year treasuries at 3%, over the next 8 years you can yield more than
2 7/8 on your savings. If you money is in the bank making 0% then pay it off if you think you'll have the cash flow to cover your overhead and put some aside over that period.
Don't ravage your savings if you don't have a ton put away. You just might need it if something happens to your job.

Buy CPO cars at or under 30k miles that maintain warranty.
Let someone else eat the cost of driving off the lot.

Don't try to keep up with the Jones unless you are legit a Jones.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

We financed our last car because we qualified for zero percent financing over 5 years, so we actually made money by holding our cash and paying on the installment.

We typically own cars for 15 years, thanks to a terrific family-owned garage that helps us maintain them.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Most Americans are economically illiterate. This is nothing new.

---

Why do you have such a low opinion of Americans? You seem to love the name but think America is full of idiots.

---

The default state of humanity is stupid, corrupt and violent. We are all born this way and it takes tremendous effort to get past it. This is why children behave this way without supervision.

Get that through your Judaeo-Christian lens that you see life through. Get real son.

In other words, don't go around assuming the best of humanity, rather do the opposite and you will see that it fits reality.

---

You were born stupid corrupt and violent? amazing.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Most Americans are economically illiterate. This is nothing new.

---

Why do you have such a low opinion of Americans? You seem to love the name but think America is full of idiots.

---

The default state of humanity is stupid, corrupt and violent. We are all born this way and it takes tremendous effort to get past it. This is why children behave this way without supervision.

Get that through your Judaeo-Christian lens that you see life through. Get real son.

In other words, don't go around assuming the best of humanity, rather do the opposite and you will see that it fits reality.

---

You were born stupid corrupt and violent? amazing.

---

100%. So were you.

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

So were you disappointed when Obama slapped those big banks on the wrist and let them go?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

So were you disappointed when Obama slapped those big banks on the wrist and let them go?

---

Very. I'm still angry about it.

According to a colleague, they were expecting to be taken over by the government, at least in the short-term.

Obama and Geithner sent the message that they could return to business as usual if they laid low for a while. And that's what they've done.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

So were you disappointed when Obama slapped those big banks on the wrist and let them go?

---

Very. I'm still angry about it.

According to a colleague, they were expecting to be taken over by the government, at least in the short-term.

Obama and Geithner sent the message that they could return to business as usual if they laid low for a while. And that's what they've done.

---

Banks have way too much power and I mostly agree with you.

I also hold individuals accountable for mishandling their finances and agreeing to terms they knew they couldn't afford.

I recently qualified for a $650k home loan. I could have easily taken it. I purchased my house at $307k because I excercised my common sense.

It works both ways to be fair.

Banks are wolves and many Americans are economically illiterate: that is a recipe for disaster.

J.R. said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

Yup...only drive what you can pay for in cash.

---

100% agree. Wife and I both do well and our vehicles are a combined 30 years old.
This is a symptom of the cause, which is a consumer capitalistic system is unsustainable unless we have a paradigm shift of what we deem important.
We value "stuff" and superficial things like social media "likes", not real relationships and experiences. Doc is right most Americans are economically stupid. Suicide, debt, anti-depressants, and lack of wellness health are all at highs so I argue where we put our priorities (consumption) isn't working. Something has to change.

Prairie_Bear said:

---

J.R. said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

Yup...only drive what you can pay for in cash.

---

100% agree. Wife and I both do well and our vehicles are a combined 30 years old.
This is a symptom of the cause, which is a consumer capitalistic system is unsustainable unless we have a paradigm shift of what we deem important.
We value "stuff" and superficial things like social media "likes", not real relationships and experiences. Doc is right most Americans are economically stupid. Suicide, debt, anti-depressants, and lack of wellness health are all at highs so I argue where we put our priorities (consumption) isn't working. Something has to change.

---

It's comes out to an extremely difficult subject:

On one hand we want to be free to our own choices and on the other hand the reality of the situation calls for dictating economic behavior. This is very difficult to exercise in a free country.

I keep coming back to education. This country needs better education. Our country needs to replace common ignorance with common knowledge.

Jinx 2 said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

We financed our last car because we qualified for zero percent financing over 5 years, so we actually made money by holding our cash and paying on the installment.

We typically own cars for 15 years, thanks to a terrific family-owned garage that helps us maintain them.

---

They work on electric cars?

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

I never implied it was "solely the fault of the consumer." You are putting words in my mouth. There were a lot of people to blame - the consumer, the banks and the politicians that pushed to increase home ownership and made the regulations very loose. If anything, I implied it wasn't only the banks fault in my post. Maybe try not projecting on me?

ValhallaBear said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

If you can use their money for 1% or less interest why would you give them a pile of cash up front?

---

2 schools of thought on things like that. Cost of $ and peace of mind. I do both, depending on circumstances.

tommie said:

---

I w often wondered how people can afford these expensive cars. I Now know the answer.

http://www.businessinsider.com/auto-loan-delinquency-number-record-new-york-fed-2019-2

---

What is it?

contrario said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

I never implied it was "solely the fault of the consumer." You are putting words in my mouth. There were a lot of people to blame - the consumer, the banks and the politicians that pushed to increase home ownership and made the regulations very loose. If anything, I implied it wasn't only the banks fault in my post. Maybe try not projecting on me?

---

Feeling a little peevish today, are we?

J.R. said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Car payments are wealth stealers. Pay cash and then drive them until the wheels fall off. You can find other and less expensive ways to impress people.

---

Yup...only drive what you can pay for in cash. I'll also add, It's foolish for a lot of people to buy a new car. I don't .

---

This 100%. Go to a dealer and ask for their cash cars. I got a 2010 Altima with all the bells and whistles, Navigation, Bose sound system, Heated Leather seats, tilt and telescoping wheel. Internal phone system, everything you could imagine, a really good car a really good ride, low miles.

I kept pecking away at the price and got them down to $4500. You would not know it isn't new. I bet I can get another 200,000 miles from it.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Most Americans are economically illiterate. This is nothing new.

---

Why do you have such a low opinion of Americans? You seem to love the name but think America is full of idiots.

---

In other words, don't go around assuming the best of humanity, rather do the opposite and you will see that it fits reality.

---

My view on life is the opposite, and my life is awesome.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

So were you disappointed when Obama slapped those big banks on the wrist and let them go?

---

I was more angry when congress did that.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

contrario said:

---

It reminds me of home loans that caused the last downturn. Just because a bank will give you a loan on something, that doesn't mean you should do it. People will blame the banks again when it goes south.

---

Because banks share the blame.

They are supposed to manage risk by not lending to people who can't pay it back.

When banks and mortgage companies lend to people who clearly aren't good risk and encourage them to lie on their applications, it's clear that there's a disconnect between the debt-holders, who, in the economic downturn, were investors who were lied to by brokers from Goldman Sachs, among others, about the quality of the investment product, and the people selling the loans and then selling the investment products they were converted into. The salespeople--both mortgage brokers and investment brokers, made plenty of money. Investors who were sold these products were fleeced.

Implying that the economic downturn was solely the fault of consumer is just flat wrong. Both mortgage brokers and investment companies creating "products" to sell played a huge part, and the credit rating agencies that rated these shaky investments much too high were also complicit. None of these players has truly been held accountable for their role in the financial collapse. Until that starts happening, we will continue to see cycles where loans are granted to people when they shouldn't be and investments are sold to people on false pretenses by salespeople who do not have a fiduciary duty to do right by their customers, and we'll all pay for the result.

---

So were you disappointed when Obama slapped those big banks on the wrist and let them go?

---

Very. I'm still angry about it.

According to a colleague, they were expecting to be taken over by the government, at least in the short-term.

Obama and Geithner sent the message that they could return to business as usual if they laid low for a while. And that's what they've done.

---

Me too. Damn Ayers liberal