Sounds like Dems did the due diligence on Manafort the Trump campaign should have done. Also lol at attempts to liken asking Ukraine about Manafort's shadiness to Russians hacking the Dem party's internal comms...

Apropos of nothing, here is my favorite 10sec clip of Manafort I like to share so people can see how obviously shady he really is.

CSIBear said:

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maybe we should ignore humck's obvious lack of foreign policy knowledge and reward him for finding the first evidence of an "obviously shady" person involved in politics. This is amazing stuff.

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I was apparently more knowledgable than the Trump campaign (low bar, I know) on Eastern European geopolitics, because even I knew that Manafort had been up to no good in Ukraine when he got hired by Trump. The McCain campaign turned Manafort away in 2008 over his previous work in Ukraine too, so it's not like it was some big secret. In fact, Manafort and Trump have known each other since the 80s, Manafort even owned a home one floor below Trump's in Trump Tower Manhattan (that home was seized by Mueller), so I doubt that Trump wasn't aware of Manafort's dealings either.

Back to the OP...any response to the DNC colluding with a foreign government to influence the 2016 election?

Where y'all at on this, is this collusion too or is that term only for when Dems do it?

HuMcK said:

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Where y'all at on this, is this collusion too or is that term only for when Dems do it?

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Seems like we don't enforce laws for this...

Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

John Solomon has been on this case with facts from day 1. He had an interview on the Joe Piscopo Show this morning that was very enlightening.

BTW...I highly recommend that show whether streaming live or via podcast. Excellent, timely guests and at times funny.

HuMcK said:

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Where y'all at on this, is this collusion too or is that term only for when Dems do it?

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So your position is that Guiliani tried to "damage" Biden by forcing him to inappropriately touch all of those women in public places? Again, you bring interesting ideas to light.

HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

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Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

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Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

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Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

---

Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

---

Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

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What you call a fact finding mission, you would call collusion with a foreign government if the republicans did it. The last time I checked, the DNC is not an investigatory agency. So while you will call it a fact finding mission because you are a democrat, it was attempted collusion with a foreign government, which is the same thing you accuse Trump of doing. Using your terminology, Trump was (allegedly) on a fact finding mission to uncover any illegal activity by HRC or people associated with her. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. So you either need to decide if you are ok with campaigns trying to get dirt on opponents from foreign governments or not.

"We're meddling in an investigation"

If it was a "crime" for the DNC to investigate Manafort, what is it when a POTUS conditions a military aid package for Ukraine on investigating Biden? Sounds like a quid pro quo arrangement where Trump sells US national strategic interests in exchange for electoral help, sort of like the arrangement he had with Russia in 2016.

HuMcK said:

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If it was a "crime" for the DNC to investigate Manafort, what is it when a POTUS conditions a military aid package for Ukraine on investigating Biden? Sounds like a quid pro quo arrangement where Trump sells US national strategic interests in exchange for electoral help, sort of like the arrangement he had with Russia in 2016.

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Please enlighten us on what Trump did w/ Russia to get 'electoral help' in 2016 because not even Mueller found that. If you remember, it was Hillary the DNC & Obama's statesman that did ALL OF THAT.

HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

---

Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

---

Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

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So the dems did a background investigation on Manafort? Why did they go to all that trouble bc I'm sure the pedophile John Podesta knew what he was doing since he was working for the other pedophile Tony Podesta.

muddybrazos said:

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HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

---

Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

---

Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

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So the dems did a background investigation on Manafort? Why did they go to all that trouble bc I'm sure the pedophile John Podesta knew what he was doing since he was working for the other pedophile Tony Podesta.

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Sorry, that pizza-gate trash is beneath me and I'm not going to engage with it.

HuMcK said:

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muddybrazos said:

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HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

---

Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

---

Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

---

So the dems did a background investigation on Manafort? Why did they go to all that trouble bc I'm sure the pedophile John Podesta knew what he was doing since he was working for the other pedophile Tony Podesta.

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Sorry, that pizza-gate trash is beneath me and I'm not going to engage with it.

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You can believe what you want but with Epstein, Weinstein and others tied the Clinton it's not hard to believe. We do have Podesta wikileaks emails where he discusses pizza related maps. Again, you can bury your head in the sand but i think we know that the Podestas are sick people.

And I am a fan of the great Andrew Breitbart who called out John Podesta for his sickness then died of mysterious circumstances shortly after kinda like the botched robbery on Seth Rich where nothing was taken the case just disappeared.

muddybrazos said:

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HuMcK said:

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muddybrazos said:

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HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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HuMcK said:

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Did you miss the OP or...? Seems like Guiliani may have gone farther than just asking Ukraine for info like the Dems apparently did though, he allegedly pushed Ukrainian officials to re-open an already closed case so they could use it against Biden. So to re-state, that's the President's personal attorney implicitly using the weight of the US government to try and generate an overseas investigation that would be used to hurt the President's political rival. That's a little more egregious than the DNC asking after Manafort's business dealings.

---

Just one time I'd like to hear you say a Democrat messed up, instead of responding with this pathetic game of "your guy is worse than my guy, even though my guy is really shtty." That's how we ended up with the two worst candidates in the history of US Presidential Elections.

And for the record, both parties play these shtty dirty politics. It's been going on for years. It's just so intellectually dishonest to get on to one party about it, ignore the fact your party does it too and then act like your party is clean. This is why independents and people that are real intellectuals, not faux party puppet intellectuals, can't stand you partisans.

---

Good lord you're thick. That part highlighted in bold is literally your schtick on this forum, I've called you on it several times already. I notice you use that as a technique to avoid the substance of a discussion sometimes, like here where you seem to take no real issue at all with how I distinguished the alleged events, instead choosing to rant about how much more unbiased you are than everyone else.

So let's lay it out in plain english: Dems apparently went to Ukraine doing what amounts to a background check investigation on Paul Manafort by asking the Ukrainians what he has been up to there before 2016 (turns out they uncovered some criminal malfeasance on the part of Manafort, makes one wonder what kind of due diligence was performed by the Trump campaign, if any), while Giuliani is pushing Ukrainian officials to re-open a previously closed investigation of a company the son of Trump's rival worked for so they can use that against Joe Biden. The only bias is in viewing those events as even remotely similar. I don't even like Biden, I just posted my counter example (which is news that just broke yesterday) to give the OP a little ribbing for hypocrisy. If the Dems fact finding mission was criminal behavior, then what is Giuliani's?

---

So the dems did a background investigation on Manafort? Why did they go to all that trouble bc I'm sure the pedophile John Podesta knew what he was doing since he was working for the other pedophile Tony Podesta.

---

Sorry, that pizza-gate trash is beneath me and I'm not going to engage with it.

---

You can believe what you want but with Epstein, Weinstein and others tied the Clinton it's not hard to believe. We do have Podesta wikileaks emails where he discusses pizza related maps. Again, you can bury your head in the sand but i think we know that the Podestas are sick people.

And I am a fan of the great Andrew Breitbart who called out John Podesta for his sickness then died of mysterious circumstances shortly after kinda like the botched robbery on Seth Rich where nothing was taken the case just disappeared.

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Watch out...the "collusion" truthers will call you a conspiracy theorist....

Gawd, why do some people feel the need to post their twitter feed on here? If I wanted to know the people you follow on Twitter, I'd follow you on Twitter.

william said:

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That's a smoking gun right there!