Evangelicals and Political Activism: the long view

1,368 Views | 11 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Doc Holliday
lankylefty
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Found this podcast incredibly enlightening. I enjoy anything that tries give perspective on current issues, then tying it with history to see how it came to fruition.

Throughline: Apocalypse Now

Some things that really stood out to me:

  • Southern Evangelicalism and it unfortunate ties to racism (for lack of a better way of saying it)
  • Moderate/Liberal Evangelicals splitting from "radical" Evangelicals aka Fundamentalists in the early 20th century
  • Realizing "the Rapture" was not even something that was conjured in the way we think of it today, until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
  • Christianity Today and SBC basically being indifferent to abortion in the years prior to Roe v. Wade and even a few years after
  • Private Christian Evangelical schools that popped up in the 60s and 70s to "combat" desegrigation until Green v Connally case shot down their tax-free status
  • Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell's role in turning the abortion issue back into a firestorm thru Moral Majority PAC 5-6 years after Roe v Wade

For those on the board who are older than me or even might've been fortunate enough to know some of these Evangelical leaders, what holes do you find in this podcasts?

How do you see the "throughline" of the American Evangelical movement's ties to political involvement from 19th century to becoming a "voting block" in the 1980s -- 2016/Trump?
GoneGirl
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I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.
Doc Holliday
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Jinx 2 said:

I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.
Funny how people are lining up to have their children separated from them...
YoakDaddy
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Jinx 2 said:

I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.

You mean the same policy that Obama had?
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/S1QJ79E' title=''><img src='' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>
curtpenn
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Jinx 2 said:

I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.
Typical argument by assertion and appeal to emotion. Not only that, but whatever is going on at the border has been decades in the making with both parties sharing some portion of the blame. Trump looks like the adult in the room who is forced to clean up a mess not of his making. Should never have come to this and the leftists real goal is to block Trump's reelection while acting under the facade of humanitarianism, in my opinion. I'm certain the usual suspects here will disagree.
GoneGirl
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YoakDaddy said:

Jinx 2 said:

I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.

You mean the same policy that Obama had?
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/S1QJ79E' title=''><img src='' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

Obama didn't separate children from their parents.

He also didn't have a stellar immigration record; he took a hard line at the border, and deep-freeze detentions happened under his watch. Didn't get any credit for it from you fellas; apparently, cruelty is more OK if Trump does it.

What did NOT happen was whisking kids into our foster care system and losing hundreds of them.

This link shows Trump outright lying about Obama's policy and Smith correcting him:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/438114-fox-newss-shep-smith-corrects-trump-for-saying-obama-first-separated-children

Smith pointed out inaccuracies in Trump's comments, saying, "President Trump has made similar claims before. Following are the facts."

Smith said while former presidents had policies to apprehend and deport migrants who were in the country illegally, officials from the George W. Bush and Obama administrations "gave children a pass."
He said while there were exceptions under the Obama administration, "it was not the policy to separate."
"After President Trump issued the zero tolerance order, officials did separate children from their parents," Smith said. "Some families have not yet been reunited."

He added that "the Trump administration did separate families. The Trump Department of Homeland Security estimates more than 2,300 children had been separated from their families by last spring. The Trump administration did detain children in cages."

Trump said Tuesday he will not reinstate a plan to separate children from their families at the border.
Smith's fact check echoed that of CNN anchor John King, who said Tuesday afternoon his network is "going to need a backup generator for the fact check machine" following President Trump's comments regarding family separation policy and blaming Democrats for the current impasse on a comprehensive immigration solutions.
GoneGirl
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lankylefty said:

Found this podcast incredibly enlightening. I enjoy anything that tries give perspective on current issues, then tying it with history to see how it came to fruition.

Throughline: Apocalypse Now

Some things that really stood out to me:

  • Southern Evangelicalism and it unfortunate ties to racism (for lack of a better way of saying it)
  • Moderate/Liberal Evangelicals splitting from "radical" Evangelicals aka Fundamentalists in the early 20th century
  • Realizing "the Rapture" was not even something that was conjured in the way we think of it today, until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
  • Christianity Today and SBC basically being indifferent to abortion in the years prior to Roe v. Wade and even a few years after
  • Private Christian Evangelical schools that popped up in the 60s and 70s to "combat" desegrigation until Green v Connally case shot down their tax-free status
  • Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell's role in turning the abortion issue back into a firestorm thru Moral Majority PAC 5-6 years after Roe v Wade

For those on the board who are older than me or even might've been fortunate enough to know some of these Evangelical leaders, what holes do you find in this podcasts?

How do you see the "throughline" of the American Evangelical movement's ties to political involvement from 19th century to becoming a "voting block" in the 1980s -- 2016/Trump?
I don't think these guys on Sicem are going to listen to this podcast, much less discuss it.

People who believe Obama did something he clearly didn't do (separate families at the border) cuz Trump said so aren't interested in accurate history, examining history, or fact-based arguments.

It's well-documented that evanglicals adopted abortion as a political issue to gain political power. And it worked.
HuMcK
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YoakDaddy
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Jinx 2 said:

YoakDaddy said:

Jinx 2 said:

I think the evangelicals elected Trump in 2016.

They may elect him again in 2020, but it'll be a harder sell. Although this site isn't an indicator, some may be turned off by his total lack of compassion for asylum seekers and the awful policy of separating children from their parents.

You mean the same policy that Obama had?
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/S1QJ79E' title=''><img src='' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>

Obama didn't separate children from their parents.

He also didn't have a stellar immigration record; he took a hard line at the border, and deep-freeze detentions happened under his watch. Didn't get any credit for it from you fellas; apparently, cruelty is more OK if Trump does it.

What did NOT happen was whisking kids into our foster care system and losing hundreds of them.

This link shows Trump outright lying about Obama's policy and Smith correcting him:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/438114-fox-newss-shep-smith-corrects-trump-for-saying-obama-first-separated-children

Smith pointed out inaccuracies in Trump's comments, saying, "President Trump has made similar claims before. Following are the facts."

Smith said while former presidents had policies to apprehend and deport migrants who were in the country illegally, officials from the George W. Bush and Obama administrations "gave children a pass."
He said while there were exceptions under the Obama administration, "it was not the policy to separate."
"After President Trump issued the zero tolerance order, officials did separate children from their parents," Smith said. "Some families have not yet been reunited."

He added that "the Trump administration did separate families. The Trump Department of Homeland Security estimates more than 2,300 children had been separated from their families by last spring. The Trump administration did detain children in cages."

Trump said Tuesday he will not reinstate a plan to separate children from their families at the border.
Smith's fact check echoed that of CNN anchor John King, who said Tuesday afternoon his network is "going to need a backup generator for the fact check machine" following President Trump's comments regarding family separation policy and blaming Democrats for the current impasse on a comprehensive immigration solutions.

Oh. Look. More children in cages during the Obama administration.
<a href='http://i.imgur.com/UTOZNy6' title=''><img src='' alt='' title='Hosted by imgur.com' /></a>
lankylefty
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HuMcK said:


yikes
lankylefty
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Jinx 2 said:

lankylefty said:

Found this podcast incredibly enlightening. I enjoy anything that tries give perspective on current issues, then tying it with history to see how it came to fruition.

Throughline: Apocalypse Now

Some things that really stood out to me:

  • Southern Evangelicalism and it unfortunate ties to racism (for lack of a better way of saying it)
  • Moderate/Liberal Evangelicals splitting from "radical" Evangelicals aka Fundamentalists in the early 20th century
  • Realizing "the Rapture" was not even something that was conjured in the way we think of it today, until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
  • Christianity Today and SBC basically being indifferent to abortion in the years prior to Roe v. Wade and even a few years after
  • Private Christian Evangelical schools that popped up in the 60s and 70s to "combat" desegrigation until Green v Connally case shot down their tax-free status
  • Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell's role in turning the abortion issue back into a firestorm thru Moral Majority PAC 5-6 years after Roe v Wade

For those on the board who are older than me or even might've been fortunate enough to know some of these Evangelical leaders, what holes do you find in this podcasts?

How do you see the "throughline" of the American Evangelical movement's ties to political involvement from 19th century to becoming a "voting block" in the 1980s -- 2016/Trump?
I don't think these guys on Sicem are going to listen to this podcast, much less discuss it.

It's well-documented that evanglicals adopted abortion as a political issue to gain political power. And it worked.
Thanks, looks like nuance and detailed history might not be this board's thing...

Silly of me to think discussing the cross-section of Christian Evangelicalism and their political motives in America would lead to insightful discussion on a religion and politics board full of members who mostly graduated from a Christian university.

Let's just resort to finding out if Obama did this or that bad-policy so we can justify our own support of the current president. sigh.
GoneGirl
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lankylefty said:

Jinx 2 said:

lankylefty said:

Found this podcast incredibly enlightening. I enjoy anything that tries give perspective on current issues, then tying it with history to see how it came to fruition.

Throughline: Apocalypse Now

Some things that really stood out to me:

  • Southern Evangelicalism and it unfortunate ties to racism (for lack of a better way of saying it)
  • Moderate/Liberal Evangelicals splitting from "radical" Evangelicals aka Fundamentalists in the early 20th century
  • Realizing "the Rapture" was not even something that was conjured in the way we think of it today, until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
  • Christianity Today and SBC basically being indifferent to abortion in the years prior to Roe v. Wade and even a few years after
  • Private Christian Evangelical schools that popped up in the 60s and 70s to "combat" desegrigation until Green v Connally case shot down their tax-free status
  • Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell's role in turning the abortion issue back into a firestorm thru Moral Majority PAC 5-6 years after Roe v Wade

For those on the board who are older than me or even might've been fortunate enough to know some of these Evangelical leaders, what holes do you find in this podcasts?

How do you see the "throughline" of the American Evangelical movement's ties to political involvement from 19th century to becoming a "voting block" in the 1980s -- 2016/Trump?
I don't think these guys on Sicem are going to listen to this podcast, much less discuss it.

It's well-documented that evanglicals adopted abortion as a political issue to gain political power. And it worked.
Thanks, looks like nuance and detailed history might not be this board's thing...

Silly of me to think discussing the cross-section of Christian Evangelicalism and their political motives in America would lead to insightful discussion on a religion and politics board full of members who mostly graduated from a Christian university.

Let's just resort to finding out if Obama did this or that bad-policy so we can justify our own support of the current president. sigh.
These guys are pointing to children in cages without pointing out that at least those children are with their parents.

Let's be clear that I don't think cages are a humane option for holding anyone, especially asylees and their children, and I was disgusted about the "freeze" tactics used during the Obama administration.

But things have gone from bad to worse under Trump, who sanctioned literally kidnapping children at the border. Literally the only way he could make HIS policy worse is to use the children to make Soylent Green.

These guys think highlighting Obama's mistakes somehow excuses Trump's inhumanity. It doesn't.

They also fail to understand that perhaps "Trump is the same as Obama" is not really the message they want to send. Since Obama was a Kenyan national who never did anything right. Unless it was something that somehow justify something awful Trump did that doesn't quite fit into the WWJD narrative. Which they really don't care about anywa.

Finally, for about 75% of posters, this board's "thing" is Trumb uber alles. That's sort of hard when your guy does one stupid or ham-handed thing after another and either blames other people for it or blames the Democrats (as easy sell with Doc, Rifle and the other toddlers in the baby pool).
Doc Holliday
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lankylefty said:

Jinx 2 said:

lankylefty said:

Found this podcast incredibly enlightening. I enjoy anything that tries give perspective on current issues, then tying it with history to see how it came to fruition.

Throughline: Apocalypse Now

Some things that really stood out to me:

  • Southern Evangelicalism and it unfortunate ties to racism (for lack of a better way of saying it)
  • Moderate/Liberal Evangelicals splitting from "radical" Evangelicals aka Fundamentalists in the early 20th century
  • Realizing "the Rapture" was not even something that was conjured in the way we think of it today, until John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.
  • Christianity Today and SBC basically being indifferent to abortion in the years prior to Roe v. Wade and even a few years after
  • Private Christian Evangelical schools that popped up in the 60s and 70s to "combat" desegrigation until Green v Connally case shot down their tax-free status
  • Paul Weyrich and Jerry Falwell's role in turning the abortion issue back into a firestorm thru Moral Majority PAC 5-6 years after Roe v Wade

For those on the board who are older than me or even might've been fortunate enough to know some of these Evangelical leaders, what holes do you find in this podcasts?

How do you see the "throughline" of the American Evangelical movement's ties to political involvement from 19th century to becoming a "voting block" in the 1980s -- 2016/Trump?
I don't think these guys on Sicem are going to listen to this podcast, much less discuss it.

It's well-documented that evanglicals adopted abortion as a political issue to gain political power. And it worked.
Thanks, looks like nuance and detailed history might not be this board's thing...

Silly of me to think discussing the cross-section of Christian Evangelicalism and their political motives in America would lead to insightful discussion on a religion and politics board full of members who mostly graduated from a Christian university.

Let's just resort to finding out if Obama did this or that bad-policy so we can justify our own support of the current president. sigh.
That one will derail every single thread. We bite the bait but I like to make it quick and short.

As far as evangelicals and their political motives, I don't think they're as big of a force as they used to be.

What's your biggest concern with them?

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