Why some Christians love the meanest part of Trump.

5,028 Views | 67 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by cinque
cinque
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It explains what happens when we know light and choose darkness. Interesting stuff:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/ben-howe-evangelical-christians-support-trump/596308/
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
codyorr
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Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
Canada2017
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Always amusing when non Christians attempt to lecture Christians about Christianity.

Guess it generates a few nickels for the spam bot.
MoneyBear
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I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
Sic'em
riflebear
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cinque said:

It explains what happens when we know light and choose darkness. Interesting stuff:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/ben-howe-evangelical-christians-support-trump/596308/


So one disgruntled former GOP Christian speaks for 'all' Christians? And we should vote for Dems who have no morality and have destroyed the moral direction of America and want to continue down that path faster than ever? Those are the people lecturing us about supporting Trump because he can be a bully back to the bullies?

And the dark parts of Trump you speak of are actually just someone fighting back at the media and liberals for what they've been able to do for decades. They are just pissed that someone is actually not rolling over anymore. Is that a 'non' Christian thing to do?

You liberals love to point out the hypocrisy of Christian republicans (spoiler alert-100% of Christians will always be sinners) but completely sweeping your sins under the rug. And not only not caring about your sins but trying to influence Americans to sin more and not care about it.

The liberal bullies are finally getting a taste of their own medicine and they have no clue what to do except call him a racist or make up conspiracy theories about him. And it looks like another new ploy is to guilt Christians into not supporting the bully who wants to make America better but support the liberal bully who literally wants to destroy everything the GOP and Christians believe in. Good luck with that argument.

Who knows what the world leaders and Dems are planning pre-2020 to take down the economy but I wouldn't bet against him. His rallies don't have thousands of people standing outside packed arenas for nothing.

FYI - GOP and Christians are not voting for a pastor for President so again quit trying to guilt Christians into thinking they made a mistake when the other choice was as close to Satan's platform as the liberal dream could want.

Trump has taught them to have a backbone again and hopefully the person following Trump in 2020 or 2024 will also have one but be able to do it Much better than Trump has and with a little more respect and less childish tweeting.

There are several people I'd love to see take over for Trump in 2020 but unless he is God forbid 'hurt' or has a health issue we are stuck with him for 4 more years.
curtpenn
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MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.
cinque
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Canada2017 said:

Always amusing when non Christians attempt to lecture Christians about Christianity.

Guess it generates a few nickels for the spam bot.
Its somewhat analogous to someone with no real experience as a target of racism lecturing those who routinely experience it on the authencity of their experiences.
codyorr
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curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
Canada2017
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Trump helped The Little Sisters of the Poor in Denver .

Barrack Hussein Obama's administration was trying to bankrupt these nuns via legal challenges. And lawyers as we all know are very expensive.

Trump put a stop to such foolishness.... to the benefit of many Christian organizations.

Trump has been very supportive of the Christian community here in the US as well as a huge friend to Israel. And leftists try to spin it .

Plus I like his federal judge appointments....both at the Supreme Court and at the various appeals courts .

Thank God it's not Hillary in the White House !
riflebear
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codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
MoneyBear
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codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."


I'll agree that anything Trump supports is harder to defend because I'm convinced the left would boycott oxygen if Donald Trump campaigned on it.

My response to your question is this: why do I have to prove abortion is wrong? It seems to me that SCOTUS will eventually have to determine if it's legal after Roe made up a right to abortion that was never explicitly or implicitly places in the Constitution. I will preach the truth of the matter as a Christian but there are plenty of unChristian and anti-christian laws on the books...I never have and never will ask the government to legislate my faith. I will however ask that they protect my right to practice it as it is one of the rights that the founding fathers said was not within the power of government to restrict.
Sic'em
cinque
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riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
MoneyBear
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riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.


Biggest media cover ups right now:

1) Epstein is alive and in some kind of witness protection.
2) Ruth Bader-Ginsberg is dead and the Democrats are living out weekend at Bernie's.

Book it!
Sic'em
riflebear
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cinque said:

riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
Silliness that we have to defend it or silliness because you don't think minorities support Trump?

The same reason Trump had to defend himself for 3 years (from you and others) that he was a Russian spy and colluded w/ Russia and Putin (Putin's puppet was your favorite quote) to win the election.

Now it's another conspiracy that Trump is a raging racist who hates minorities. But the best one is he's a Nazi who hates Jews even though his daughter son in law and grandchildren are literally Jewish. That's how stupid the media is, they think people believe this when anyone w/ half a brain knows it's just the typical left trying to win back power. Unfortunately the Dem candidates are pushing these lies too to help their election chances when it's only going to destroy them because America (except Hollywood) is smarter than this.

They called Bush the same things when he was in office - now we just have social media so it spreads faster. This isn't new. It's the same old thing they've done for decades, now they just have a President who won't put up with it and will fight back and it drives them crazy.

The GOP could nominate a half black half hispanic transgender who is married to a half chinese half Jewish lesbian atheist who adopted 3 African babies and allowed them to switch genders at age 5 and if the platform was I am a Christian and I am pro life they would still run w/ the same racist rhetoric they do against any Republican.
cinque
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riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
Silliness that we have to defend it or silliness because you don't think minorities support Trump?

The same reason Trump had to defend himself for 3 years (from you and others) that he was a Russian spy and colluded w/ Russia and Putin (Putin's puppet was your favorite quote) to win the election.

Now it's another conspiracy that Trump is a raging racist who hates minorities. But the best one is he's a Nazi who hates Jews even though his daughter son in law and grandchildren are literally Jewish. That's how stupid the media is, they think people believe this when anyone w/ half a brain knows it's just the typical left trying to win back power. Unfortunately the Dem candidates are pushing these lies too to help their election chances when it's only going to destroy them because America (except Hollywood) is smarter than this.

They called Bush the same things when he was in office - now we just have social media so it spreads faster. This isn't new. It's the same old thing they've done for decades, now they just have a President who won't put up with it and will fight back and it drives them crazy.

The GOP could nominate a half black half hispanic transgender who is married to a half chinese half Jewish lesbian atheist who adopted 3 African babies and allowed them to switch genders at age 5 and if the platform was I am a Christian and I am pro life they would still run w/ the same racist rhetoric they do against any Republican.

You didn't come close to answering the question. Why is it suddenly an obsession with Trumpkins to try and create a relation between black people and Trump that even the most casual observer knows does not exist?
He is the most reviled president known to the black community in 100 years.
riflebear
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cinque said:

riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
Silliness that we have to defend it or silliness because you don't think minorities support Trump?

The same reason Trump had to defend himself for 3 years (from you and others) that he was a Russian spy and colluded w/ Russia and Putin (Putin's puppet was your favorite quote) to win the election.

Now it's another conspiracy that Trump is a raging racist who hates minorities. But the best one is he's a Nazi who hates Jews even though his daughter son in law and grandchildren are literally Jewish. That's how stupid the media is, they think people believe this when anyone w/ half a brain knows it's just the typical left trying to win back power. Unfortunately the Dem candidates are pushing these lies too to help their election chances when it's only going to destroy them because America (except Hollywood) is smarter than this.

They called Bush the same things when he was in office - now we just have social media so it spreads faster. This isn't new. It's the same old thing they've done for decades, now they just have a President who won't put up with it and will fight back and it drives them crazy.

The GOP could nominate a half black half hispanic transgender who is married to a half chinese half Jewish lesbian atheist who adopted 3 African babies and allowed them to switch genders at age 5 and if the platform was I am a Christian and I am pro life they would still run w/ the same racist rhetoric they do against any Republican.

You didn't come close to answering the question. Why is it suddenly an obsession with Trumpkins to try and create a relation between black people and Trump that even the most casual observer knows does not exist?
He is the most reviled president known to the black community in 100 years.
Because I asked you to clarify what your question was.

Yes, please keep underestimating his minority support which continues to increase.

And to answer another question, this below is another reason we don't want liberals to win because this is who they are at the heart of their party. None of them call out antifa in fact they encourage it. Not to mention Obama divided our country more than any other President ever did. Liberals despise Ice and border security when over 50% of of these agencies on the border are minorities but they don't care. Same w/ policeman. It's sad and a disgrace that it isn't called out.

Once again, libs stand for division and want people to hate each other so they can win. They don't want unity, nothing they stand for is about unity.


cinque
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riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
Silliness that we have to defend it or silliness because you don't think minorities support Trump?

The same reason Trump had to defend himself for 3 years (from you and others) that he was a Russian spy and colluded w/ Russia and Putin (Putin's puppet was your favorite quote) to win the election.

Now it's another conspiracy that Trump is a raging racist who hates minorities. But the best one is he's a Nazi who hates Jews even though his daughter son in law and grandchildren are literally Jewish. That's how stupid the media is, they think people believe this when anyone w/ half a brain knows it's just the typical left trying to win back power. Unfortunately the Dem candidates are pushing these lies too to help their election chances when it's only going to destroy them because America (except Hollywood) is smarter than this.

They called Bush the same things when he was in office - now we just have social media so it spreads faster. This isn't new. It's the same old thing they've done for decades, now they just have a President who won't put up with it and will fight back and it drives them crazy.

The GOP could nominate a half black half hispanic transgender who is married to a half chinese half Jewish lesbian atheist who adopted 3 African babies and allowed them to switch genders at age 5 and if the platform was I am a Christian and I am pro life they would still run w/ the same racist rhetoric they do against any Republican.

You didn't come close to answering the question. Why is it suddenly an obsession with Trumpkins to try and create a relation between black people and Trump that even the most casual observer knows does not exist?
He is the most reviled president known to the black community in 100 years.
Because I asked you to clarify what your question was.

Yes, please keep underestimating his minority support which continues to increase.

And to answer another question, this below is another reason we don't want liberals to win because this is who they are at the heart of their party. None of them call out antifa in fact they encourage it. Not to mention Obama divided our country more than any other President ever did. Liberals despise Ice and border security when over 50% of of these agencies on the border are minorities but they don't care. Same w/ policeman. It's sad and a disgrace that it isn't called out.

Once again, libs stand for division and want people to hate each other so they can win. They don't want unity, nothing they stand for is about unity.



Who has Anifa murdered?

BellCountyBear
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Because he makes people/bots like cinque look stupid-er than ever!
BellCountyBear
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Duh.
Baylor3216
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cinque said:

It explains what happens when we know light and choose darkness. Interesting stuff:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/ben-howe-evangelical-christians-support-trump/596308/


Are you suggesting that Socialists want the vote of a group of people they've slandered, said believe in superstitious fairy tales, lectured that abortion is all about choice, called them racisits and bigots and to feel bad as 99% of the slog to work everybday to put in 8-12 hours to feed their families and hope to keep a little Of their hard earned money instead of giving it to those that don't work, for literally decades and 24/7 in the major news networks today aren't "woke" and should question their vote for President Trump, the first person speaking directly to them since Reagan?

Omg brah that's rich.

They be "woke" when they got "woke" and went to vote for Trump for the first time in several elections.

Baylor3216
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riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

cinque said:

riflebear said:

codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
How does he make it more difficult?

I read the article/interview and that doesn't make sense to me. All I see are a record # of minorities coming out in support of Trump and seeing the media and liberals for who they really are now. One of the best things he's done and what I've wanted for over 10-15 years is someone to expose the media. Granted he's taken it a bit far at times and of course polls are polls so we'll see what happens in 2020 but you can't argue he's fighting for all Americans. And yes, that includes ALL minorities and immigrants.

I bet you 99% of liberals who only watch MSNBC or CNN have no clue what some of the incredible things his administration has and is doing for minorities not just now but set up for years to come in the future.

Go look at the 'culture' threads from the last 2 years or just walk around in public compared to 10 years ago and you'll see that it is being destroyed regardless of politicians. These so called 'christians' should focus more on their own communities and being a witness where they live instead of what Trump is doing. If the media would actually report on the truth then there wouldn't be so much hate and division right now, but that's their big money maker. They need hate and division for ratings and of course they want power back so they will do anything corrupt to make that happen as we've seen over the past 3 years and prior.

It's hilarious to think back to 2015 and all the liberal media loving Trump during the GOP primaries because he was bullying and taking out every GOP candidate 1 by 1 and they ate it up. They couldn't get enough of it seeing all these seasoned career politicians melt before their eyes. Now that it's happened to them it's not so funny anymore and they will stop at nothing to make up for what they helped contribute to during the GOP primaries in 2016.

'Christians' shouldn't focus on the politicians, they should focus on the media. That's where the real evil is IMO.
Why is it so important to people like you to believe the preposterous notion that significant numbers of black people support Trump? It's rank silliness.
Silliness that we have to defend it or silliness because you don't think minorities support Trump?

The same reason Trump had to defend himself for 3 years (from you and others) that he was a Russian spy and colluded w/ Russia and Putin (Putin's puppet was your favorite quote) to win the election.

Now it's another conspiracy that Trump is a raging racist who hates minorities. But the best one is he's a Nazi who hates Jews even though his daughter son in law and grandchildren are literally Jewish. That's how stupid the media is, they think people believe this when anyone w/ half a brain knows it's just the typical left trying to win back power. Unfortunately the Dem candidates are pushing these lies too to help their election chances when it's only going to destroy them because America (except Hollywood) is smarter than this.

They called Bush the same things when he was in office - now we just have social media so it spreads faster. This isn't new. It's the same old thing they've done for decades, now they just have a President who won't put up with it and will fight back and it drives them crazy.

The GOP could nominate a half black half hispanic transgender who is married to a half chinese half Jewish lesbian atheist who adopted 3 African babies and allowed them to switch genders at age 5 and if the platform was I am a Christian and I am pro life they would still run w/ the same racist rhetoric they do against any Republican.

You didn't come close to answering the question. Why is it suddenly an obsession with Trumpkins to try and create a relation between black people and Trump that even the most casual observer knows does not exist?
He is the most reviled president known to the black community in 100 years.
Because I asked you to clarify what your question was.

Yes, please keep underestimating his minority support which continues to increase.

And to answer another question, this below is another reason we don't want liberals to win because this is who they are at the heart of their party. None of them call out antifa in fact they encourage it. Not to mention Obama divided our country more than any other President ever did. Liberals despise Ice and border security when over 50% of of these agencies on the border are minorities but they don't care. Same w/ policeman. It's sad and a disgrace that it isn't called out.

Once again, libs stand for division and want people to hate each other so they can win. They don't want unity, nothing they stand for is about unity.





Lmao Since when is antifa shorthand for anti 1st Amendment? That's hilarious
curtpenn
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codyorr said:

curtpenn said:

MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.
^^^ x 1,000. Not that complicated. For me, it was mostly about SCOTUS; speaking of long term consequences. As easy as it is to find things to dislike about Trump, the alternative renders his flaws irrelevant.

Serious question: did you read the interview? What do you think of Howe's argument that "Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult."
Did not read the interview. FWIW, I'm extremely pro-life. Yes, I understand the point re Trump and abortion, but again (ad nauseam), there was no real alternative. End of story.
curtpenn
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cinque said:

Canada2017 said:

Always amusing when non Christians attempt to lecture Christians about Christianity.

Guess it generates a few nickels for the spam bot.
Its somewhat analogous to someone with no real experience as a target of racism lecturing those who routinely experience it on the authencity of their experiences.
I would never deny others the reality of their lived experiences, just as I would not have them deny me mine. I'm an old fart, 64 and counting, who has lived all of his days trying and failing to look at others as God's creations and therefore worthy of respect and dignity, being created in the image of God. Truly not trying to come across as overly self-righteous or patting myself on the back, but I've pretty much always done my best to be a good and loving son, father, husband, grandfather, neighbor, employee, employer, etc. Played by the rules, paid my taxes, made sure my kids were raised as best as I could manage, gave of my time and resources to church and schools, blah, blah, blah... Did all of this with basically no help from anyone other than my loving and faithful wife. Everything we have and have done was achieved by keeping our noses to the grindstone and our mouths more or less shut for decade after decade after decade. So, coming to the end of the trail, all I see is a bunch of whiners, race baiters, leechers, blame shifters, and legions of takers. Frankly, I struggle to maintain a Christian outlook and find myself utterly unfeeling at best, or very pissed off some days, at people like you and those who share your experience. That's as authentic as I can make it.
Sam Lowry
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codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
A lot of people who say they're not interested in Christianity because of Trump are the same ones who say Trump isn't a real Christian. There are exceptions, but I usually take it with a grain of salt.
YoakDaddy
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curtpenn said:

cinque said:

Canada2017 said:

Always amusing when non Christians attempt to lecture Christians about Christianity.

Guess it generates a few nickels for the spam bot.
Its somewhat analogous to someone with no real experience as a target of racism lecturing those who routinely experience it on the authencity of their experiences.
I would never deny others the reality of their lived experiences, just as I would not have them deny me mine. I'm an old fart, 64 and counting, who has lived all of his days trying and failing to look at others as God's creations and therefore worthy of respect and dignity, being created in the image of God. Truly not trying to come across as overly self-righteous or patting myself on the back, but I've pretty much always done my best to be a good and loving son, father, husband, grandfather, neighbor, employee, employer, etc. Played by the rules, paid my taxes, made sure my kids were raised as best as I could manage, gave of my time and resources to church and schools, blah, blah, blah... Did all of this with basically no help from anyone other than my loving and faithful wife. Everything we have and have done was achieved by keeping our noses to the grindstone and our mouths more or less shut for decade after decade after decade. So, coming to the end of the trail, all I see is a bunch of whiners, race baiters, leechers, blame shifters, and legions of takers. Frankly, I struggle to maintain a Christian outlook and find myself utterly unfeeling at best, or very pissed off some days, at people like you and those who share your experience. That's as authentic as I can make it.

There's no need to respond to cinque. When cinque has no logical argument or facts, cinque throws down the race card.
codyorr
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Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
A lot of people who say they're not interested in Christianity because of Trump are the same ones who say Trump isn't a real Christian. There are exceptions, but I usually take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think their argument is "Trump is a Christian, but he's a bad person, so Christians must be bad people, too". I think it's, "Christians condemn who they consider 'bad' people, but Trump is a bad person, and Christians support him anyway. Christians are hypocritical or have a bad definition of 'bad'."
Keyser Soze
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MoneyBear said:

I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what a binary choice is. In our system, every election is a binary choice. Not voting for one candidate is essentially voting for the other.

Christians look at Trump with his abundant and well documented failings as an individual alongside his largely conservative policies as well as his willingness to push back against the wildly anti-christian leftist agenda.

Then they look at what Democrats are running. In 2016 it was Hillary who has about as many skeletons in her closet as Trump and basically told conservatives they didn't matter. Now it's a slew of candidates who will not stop until every "Christian" group/individual loses their 501c3 status or is bankrupt from meaningless litigation to satisfy their LGBTQ, abortion, etc platform.

I know you're not interested in the real reason Christians vote for Trump because it doesn't fit your agenda. But I am one of many Christians who will vote for Trump simply to vote against a group of people who have not made it a secret that they bear a great disdain for conservative Christians. And I didn't vote for him last time...but I will now.

Agreed with a great deal of this and starred your post. Taking the worst of Trump and making it a jab at Christians is so wrong.

I will say we can break free of the binary vote if enough move to support third parties. Didn't vote for Trump or HRC.
curtpenn
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YoakDaddy said:

curtpenn said:

cinque said:

Canada2017 said:

Always amusing when non Christians attempt to lecture Christians about Christianity.

Guess it generates a few nickels for the spam bot.
Its somewhat analogous to someone with no real experience as a target of racism lecturing those who routinely experience it on the authencity of their experiences.
I would never deny others the reality of their lived experiences, just as I would not have them deny me mine. I'm an old fart, 64 and counting, who has lived all of his days trying and failing to look at others as God's creations and therefore worthy of respect and dignity, being created in the image of God. Truly not trying to come across as overly self-righteous or patting myself on the back, but I've pretty much always done my best to be a good and loving son, father, husband, grandfather, neighbor, employee, employer, etc. Played by the rules, paid my taxes, made sure my kids were raised as best as I could manage, gave of my time and resources to church and schools, blah, blah, blah... Did all of this with basically no help from anyone other than my loving and faithful wife. Everything we have and have done was achieved by keeping our noses to the grindstone and our mouths more or less shut for decade after decade after decade. So, coming to the end of the trail, all I see is a bunch of whiners, race baiters, leechers, blame shifters, and legions of takers. Frankly, I struggle to maintain a Christian outlook and find myself utterly unfeeling at best, or very pissed off some days, at people like you and those who share your experience. That's as authentic as I can make it.

There's no need to respond to cinque. When cinque has no logical argument or facts, cinque throws down the race card.
Yeah, I know... But, it's Monday morning and I'm feeling grumpier than usual - lol.
Sam Lowry
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codyorr said:

Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
A lot of people who say they're not interested in Christianity because of Trump are the same ones who say Trump isn't a real Christian. There are exceptions, but I usually take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think their argument is "Trump is a Christian, but he's a bad person, so Christians must be bad people, too". I think it's, "Christians condemn who they consider 'bad' people, but Trump is a bad person, and Christians support him anyway. Christians are hypocritical or have a bad definition of 'bad'."
I would disagree with their premise on both theological and historical grounds. Christians don't condemn bad people. We condemn bad actions so that people (including ourselves) can avoid them. And we've always supported politicians who were varying degrees of good and bad, just like everyone else has always done.
codyorr
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Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
A lot of people who say they're not interested in Christianity because of Trump are the same ones who say Trump isn't a real Christian. There are exceptions, but I usually take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think their argument is "Trump is a Christian, but he's a bad person, so Christians must be bad people, too". I think it's, "Christians condemn who they consider 'bad' people, but Trump is a bad person, and Christians support him anyway. Christians are hypocritical or have a bad definition of 'bad'."
I would disagree with their premise on both theological and historical grounds. Christians don't condemn bad people. We condemn bad actions so that people (including ourselves) can avoid them. And we've always supported politicians who were varying degrees of good and bad, just like everyone else has always done.

You're arguing with the wrong person; I'm simply relaying what I hear when discussing religion with my non-Christian peers. My concern, which appears to be a similar concern of Howe's for anyone who read the interview, is the evangelical embrace and defense of Trump makes it that much harder to reach non-Christians. Unfortunately in this matter, what non-Christians perceive is more important than what us Christians believe they should perceive.
Sam Lowry
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codyorr said:

Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Sam Lowry said:

codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
A lot of people who say they're not interested in Christianity because of Trump are the same ones who say Trump isn't a real Christian. There are exceptions, but I usually take it with a grain of salt.

I don't think their argument is "Trump is a Christian, but he's a bad person, so Christians must be bad people, too". I think it's, "Christians condemn who they consider 'bad' people, but Trump is a bad person, and Christians support him anyway. Christians are hypocritical or have a bad definition of 'bad'."
I would disagree with their premise on both theological and historical grounds. Christians don't condemn bad people. We condemn bad actions so that people (including ourselves) can avoid them. And we've always supported politicians who were varying degrees of good and bad, just like everyone else has always done.

You're arguing with the wrong person; I'm simply relaying what I hear when discussing religion with my non-Christian peers. My concern, which appears to be a similar concern of Howe's for anyone who read the interview, is the evangelical embrace and defense of Trump makes it that much harder to reach non-Christians. Unfortunately in this matter, what non-Christians perceive is more important than what us Christians believe they should perceive.
I'm not really arguing with you. Just explaining why I'm less worried about what some of my non-Christian peers are saying. I know people who have despised Christianity for years, and now we're supposed to believe they're deeply disillusioned by Trump (or by Christians' support for him). Has this made it a bit harder to reach them, if only by giving them another excuse to revile religion? Yeah, maybe. I'm not sure it compares with the difficulty of having your livelihood taken away and possibly being sent to prison because you chose to bear witness to biblical truth.
riflebear
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Another difference in the radical liberal party and GOP.

This is the Dem party in 2019. Holding a mock assassination attempt on Trump at a FUNDRAISER.

If a GOP politician had a mock assassination attempt on Clinton or Obama (or anyone) at a fundraiser they would never be heard from again, their political career would be over not to mention the 24/7 coverage and outrage around the country from every major media company (including conservatives).

Here we have a Democrat and barely a peep from the media because it's a murder attempt on Trump.

George Truett
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:


Why is it either/or?

This is the problem. I get that evangelicals support Trump. But it's the uncritical support that's so bad.

Even worse are attempts to say he's "God's man" and to claim he's somehow "accepted Christ."

Good Lord. Just admit that you're whoring yourself out to gain what you think is a greater good. Don't make this braying ass some kind of hero.
whiterock
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codyorr said:

Quote:

When you make a short-term decision that can have long-term detrimental consequences, as I think Trump will, you are harming your cause. Trump will affect the way the culture views abortion and views conservatism. As a Trump-supporting pro-lifer, can I convince anyone that abortion is wrong? He makes it more difficult.

This is similar to an argument that I made to my dad. As a Christian, I believe Trump makes it harder to spread the Gospel and encourage others to seek out the Church. His behavior makes Evangelicals appear hypocritical (whether they are or not is a different debate), which is one of the main reasons I hear people say they are not interested in exploring Christianity.
The word of God cannot prevail against the politics of the day.

O yea of little faith.
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