Buddha Bear said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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quash said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Bearish said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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cms186 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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I am still waiting on some folks here to deal with what Obama did during his Presidency against the faith rather than deflect. We can't pretend these things didn't happen. Where is all the thoughtful commentary on these points? And should Christians really be supportive of such actions that are contrary to the faith?

---

someone posting a link debunking the chain email OP you made with only about 4 of the points having any factual accuracy

Does all of the Un-Christian things Trump has done or endorsed during his Presidency mean he isnt a Christian?

---

You are making a false claim. The content in the OP is not from a chain email but from a researched book.

You are also making a claim that a number of the points made are not factually accurate. But you have failed to support that claim with any evidence. Since you have already told one whopper, why should we not assume you have made another whopper here too?

Finally, should we assume that since many of you are so quick to deflect to talking about Trump it is an implied admission that you cannot defend Obama's actions against the faith?

---

I've offered you my opinion on this, including a yet unanswered question posed to you. But I think the Trump deflection is more like answering a question with a question, in order to show how petty your argument is. Like this:

Q: Don't you think Obama is a fake Christian because he puts family dogs on Christmas cards and extends marriage benefits to same-sex couples?

A: Um, do you think Trump is a fake Christian because he pronounces it "Two Corinthians" (as in "...walk into a bar") is proven on audio to have degraded women saying "when you're famous you can grab 'em by the *****" and claims we shouldn't be taking refuges from "shthole" countires?

---

I think Trump is probably a lukewarm Christian who hasn't seriously studied the bible. But he has been more supportive of the faith during his time in office even with his other moral failings. As a Presidential figure, I am more interested in what the Presidents do in terms of policies with regard to the faith. In other words, do they make it easier or harder to be a practicing Christian and to spread the Gospel? I think the points I listed show that Obama has made it harder to be a practicing Christian by his policy actions. And considering that he claims to be a Christian, it is very odd and suspect that he would take a whole lot of actions that would do so.

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So happy we live in a country where church and state are separate. I am shocked that you consider the government in this country to impede or improve your evangelism. Put more more faith in the holy spirit and less in the president.

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The separation of church and state was done so that there would be no intrusion of the state on religious worship. Ironically, some of Obama's actions did just this as he has made it harder for practicing Christians to follow their faith.

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The government doesn't stop anyone from going to church, or spreading the word of God. You just cant impose your faith on others with government institutions.

---

This isn't true. The gov't imposes all kinds of rules or permits shenanigans. Look at how street preachers get hassled on public universities, state parks, and so on. See how Bernie Sanders was trying to get a practicing Christian kicked from some appointment because of his beliefs.

In addition, go back and look at that list I posted and you will see a couple of examples where the Obama Administration took away privileges previously given to Christians. And remember in our history we have seen the government remove blasphemy laws, remove prayer in school and other stuff. The government has definitely made restrictions on religious worship.

Canada2017 said:

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GolemIII said:

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The hate filled black nationalist 'church' he attended faithfully for 20 years, led by a despicable hateful 'pastor' who is a friend of Farrakhan, spewed evil garbage week upon week and acted as his spiritual advisor, suggests he was not. Like our resident troll, he is a racist black nationalist who values Christianity only in as much as he can twist it to push his political agendas.

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Exactly

Obama hated anything he associated with Anglo culture.

By default he also attacked the ethics and standards of millions of black Christians.

---

Like his mom and her parents who helped raise him? You're the kind of supremacist who still believes if black people are not skinning and grinning, affirming you and going out of their way to lessen your racial anxiety, that they somehow hate you. Ignorant.

BaylorFTW said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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quash said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Bearish said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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cms186 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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I am still waiting on some folks here to deal with what Obama did during his Presidency against the faith rather than deflect. We can't pretend these things didn't happen. Where is all the thoughtful commentary on these points? And should Christians really be supportive of such actions that are contrary to the faith?

---

someone posting a link debunking the chain email OP you made with only about 4 of the points having any factual accuracy

Does all of the Un-Christian things Trump has done or endorsed during his Presidency mean he isnt a Christian?

---

You are making a false claim. The content in the OP is not from a chain email but from a researched book.

You are also making a claim that a number of the points made are not factually accurate. But you have failed to support that claim with any evidence. Since you have already told one whopper, why should we not assume you have made another whopper here too?

Finally, should we assume that since many of you are so quick to deflect to talking about Trump it is an implied admission that you cannot defend Obama's actions against the faith?

---

I've offered you my opinion on this, including a yet unanswered question posed to you. But I think the Trump deflection is more like answering a question with a question, in order to show how petty your argument is. Like this:

Q: Don't you think Obama is a fake Christian because he puts family dogs on Christmas cards and extends marriage benefits to same-sex couples?

A: Um, do you think Trump is a fake Christian because he pronounces it "Two Corinthians" (as in "...walk into a bar") is proven on audio to have degraded women saying "when you're famous you can grab 'em by the *****" and claims we shouldn't be taking refuges from "shthole" countires?

---

I think Trump is probably a lukewarm Christian who hasn't seriously studied the bible. But he has been more supportive of the faith during his time in office even with his other moral failings. As a Presidential figure, I am more interested in what the Presidents do in terms of policies with regard to the faith. In other words, do they make it easier or harder to be a practicing Christian and to spread the Gospel? I think the points I listed show that Obama has made it harder to be a practicing Christian by his policy actions. And considering that he claims to be a Christian, it is very odd and suspect that he would take a whole lot of actions that would do so.

---

So happy we live in a country where church and state are separate. I am shocked that you consider the government in this country to impede or improve your evangelism. Put more more faith in the holy spirit and less in the president.

---

The separation of church and state was done so that there would be no intrusion of the state on religious worship. Ironically, some of Obama's actions did just this as he has made it harder for practicing Christians to follow their faith.

---

The government doesn't stop anyone from going to church, or spreading the word of God. You just cant impose your faith on others with government institutions.

---

This isn't true. The gov't imposes all kinds of rules or permits shenanigans. Look at how street preachers get hassled on public universities, state parks, and so on. See how Bernie Sanders was trying to get a practicing Christian kicked from some appointment because of his beliefs.

In addition, go back and look at that list I posted and you will see a couple of examples where the Obama Administration took away privileges previously given to Christians. And remember in our history we have seen the government remove blasphemy laws, remove prayer in school and other stuff. The government has definitely made restrictions on religious worship.

---

I mean, why are people preaching on government property anyway? Separation of church and state is a good reason to not allow preaching on gov't property. You don't want Imam's preaching there do you? I'm very glad we don't have blasphemy laws. Indonesia is a shining example of why we don't want them. We are country that wants faiths of all backgrounds to be practiced freely and equally.

I'm sure you mean well, but your argument is EXACTLY the same argument I read in the Jakarta newspaper last month from a Muslim arguing that his religion is being attacked since people of other faiths are asking them to do away with blasphemy laws.

cinque said:

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Canada2017 said:

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GolemIII said:

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The hate filled black nationalist 'church' he attended faithfully for 20 years, led by a despicable hateful 'pastor' who is a friend of Farrakhan, spewed evil garbage week upon week and acted as his spiritual advisor, suggests he was not. Like our resident troll, he is a racist black nationalist who values Christianity only in as much as he can twist it to push his political agendas.

---

Exactly

Obama hated anything he associated with Anglo culture.

By default he also attacked the ethics and standards of millions of black Christians.

---

Like his mom and her parents who helped raise him? You're the kind of supremacist who still believes if black people are not skinning and grinning, affirming you and going out of their way to lessen your racial anxiety, that they somehow hate you. Ignorant.

---

Total BS as usual .

You have lived a mediocre existence with an enormous chip on your shoulder. And it hasn't improved your life in the slightest.

Your obsession with skin color literally defines you.

Be clear ....the biggest difference between me and you isn't skin color.

The biggest difference is there isn't the slightest aspect of your life that I desire . Nada, nothing, zero. Good grief I wouldn't accept your life of bitterness for any reason .

On the other hand you obviously feel life somehow cheated you. You didn't get what you 'deserved' , didn't obtain what you are 'entitled ' to . Personal choices, personal responsibility be damned .

Gosh it's fun to watch !

( nickel tossed into your handbag )

Buddha Bear said:

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I mean, why are people preaching on government property anyway? Separation of church and state is a good reason to not allow preaching on gov't property. You don't want Imam's preaching there do you? I'm very glad we don't have blasphemy laws. Indonesia is a shining example of why we don't want them. We are country that wants faiths of all backgrounds to be practiced freely and equally.

I'm sure you mean well, but your argument is EXACTLY the same argument I read in the Jakarta newspaper last month from a Muslim arguing that his religion is being attacked since people of other faiths are asking them to do away with blasphemy laws.

---

Do not the people own the government? Do not the people pay taxes that go towards these things? Again, you don't have a proper understanding of what separation of church and state is. It isn't religion intruding on the state it is to keep the gov't from intruding on religion. Remember all these folks fled England where they had a tyrannical state that wasn't letting them practice religion freely. They didn't want to repeat things here. I don't have a problem with other religions practicing their religion in public so long as it isn't violating the rights of others. It doesn't bother me that other religions want to practice their faith even though it would be my personal aim to try to convert them.

But we used to have blasphemy laws and we weren't Indonesia then. We used to have obscenity laws then too and weren't like some sharia state. But these were circumvented and we were sold that things like obscenity and porn were free speech. Honestly, I would happily go back to world without obscenity and porn. I think we would be better off as a society too. And as a practicing Christian, I try to avoid blasphemy and obscenity anyway so I wouldn't mind it if others had to do the same.

Again, we have had these things in the past and didn't have some sharia state. But your final statement does bring up an interesting point. When you do permit the erosion of certain values thru removal of laws, you are infringing on the rights of those who wish to be religiously observant. The Muslim man is correct in this respect. A government can't stay neutral as it will be forced to pick winners and losers when it comes to its laws. In other words, it may decide that hedonistic values win out or it may decide that support for certain religions is higher than for other religions.

BaylorFTW said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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I mean, why are people preaching on government property anyway? Separation of church and state is a good reason to not allow preaching on gov't property. You don't want Imam's preaching there do you? I'm very glad we don't have blasphemy laws. Indonesia is a shining example of why we don't want them. We are country that wants faiths of all backgrounds to be practiced freely and equally.

I'm sure you mean well, but your argument is EXACTLY the same argument I read in the Jakarta newspaper last month from a Muslim arguing that his religion is being attacked since people of other faiths are asking them to do away with blasphemy laws.

---

Do not the people own the government? Do not the people pay taxes that go towards these things? Again, you don't have a proper understanding of what separation of church and state is. It isn't religion intruding on the state it is to keep the gov't from intruding on religion. Remember all these folks fled England where they had a tyrannical state that wasn't letting them practice religion freely. They didn't want to repeat things here. I don't have a problem with other religions practicing their religion in public so long as it isn't violating the rights of others. It doesn't bother me that other religions want to practice their faith even though it would be my personal aim to try to convert them.

But we used to have blasphemy laws and we weren't Indonesia then. We used to have obscenity laws then too and weren't like some sharia state. But these were circumvented and we were sold that things like obscenity and porn were free speech. Honestly, I would happily go back to world without obscenity and porn. I think we would be better off as a society too. And as a practicing Christian, I try to avoid blasphemy and obscenity anyway so I wouldn't mind it if others had to do the same.

Again, we have had these things in the past and didn't have some sharia state. But your final statement does bring up an interesting point. When you do permit the erosion of certain values thru removal of laws, you are infringing on the rights of those who wish to be religiously observant. The Muslim man is correct in this respect. A government can't stay neutral as it will be forced to pick winners and losers when it comes to its laws. In other words, it may decide that hedonistic values win out or it may decide that support for certain religions is higher than for other religions.

---

When you choose one religion over the other, the door is open to discrimination and favoritism. I don't believe America was greater 50 or 100 years ago than it is today. It was different. Better in some ways, worse in others depending on the person. Back when we had Christian religious laws we also had a 90% tax bracket. I don't think we want to bring that back too. People own the government, and the people within this government are represented by every religion, and no religion.

If people were going to jail for blasphemy in the past, how was this not an adoption of some of the sharia state laws? We certainly did, just under a different religion. I'm glad we have these rights now: If you don't like blasphemy don't do it, and avoid people that do. If you don't like porn, don't watch porn. If some music offends you, don't listen to it. People should pay attention to their own bedroom. Their own habits. Their own religion. And I don't agree with following statement at all:

"When you do permit the erosion of certain values thru removal of laws, you are infringing on the rights of those who wish to be religiously observant"

Respectfully, your values are not my values. If you adhere to a certain moral code that your religion teaches, then you should be able to practice it the way it says so (within reason, ie - doesn't cause physical harm). But no religious person has a right to tell me that I should live by their moral code, because it offends them if I don't.

No single religion should dictate any laws of society. Morality and religion are not mutually exclusive. Some of the worst, and best people I've ever known are deeply religious. Same goes for those that are not religious.

We have a 4 page thread on whether Obama is a Christian. Trump claims he, not Jesus, is the messiah and is the biblical King of the Jews. None of y'all mention it and essentially silently say that is fine to claim that. So I guess the question is really are y'all really Christians?

PartyBear said:

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We have a 4 page thread on whether Obama is a Christian. Trump claims he, not Jesus, is the messiah and is the biblical King of the Jews. None of y'all mention it and essentially silently say that is fine to claim that. So I guess the question is really are y'all really Christians?

---

1. You are still deflecting rather than dealing with the content in the OP? It is sad that you refuse to deal with what Obama has done during his Presidency against our faith?

2. As far as I know Trump merely said thank you to Wayne Allen Root for the very nice words and tweeted the comments that Root made which said "President Trump is the greatest President for Jews and for Israel in the history of the world, not just America, he is the best President for Israel in the history of the world...and the Jewish people in Israel love him like he's the King of Israel. They love him like he is the second coming of God...But American Jews don't know him or like him. They don't even know what they're doing or saying anymore. It makes no sense! But that's OK, if he keeps doing what he's doing, he's good for.....

The above statements don't support what you are claiming at all. Trump isn't claiming anything except saying he was impressed that Root gave him such high praise. You are reading into this message to suit your political bias. Also, as a practical measure, if some Jews want to believe that Donald Trump is the messiah, what is that to me? They have been wrong before like with Sabbatai Zevi. I don't see how any of that disproves Jesus as the Messiah.

This thread still going, even as Trump declares himself "the chosen one" hahaha

Isn't that blasphemy? 400 years ago he woulda been burned at the stake for that

Buddha Bear said:

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This thread still going, even as Trump declares himself "the chosen one" hahaha

Isn't that blasphemy? 400 years ago he woulda been burned at the stake for that

---

^^^ So you wish you could "burn Trump at the stake" now?

My Lord .... help us!

Florda_mike said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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This thread still going, even as Trump declares himself "the chosen one" hahaha

Isn't that blasphemy? 400 years ago he woulda been burned at the stake for that

---

^^^ So you wish you could "burn Trump at the stake" now?

My Lord .... help us!

---

Naaa..he and his disciples are just fun to laugh at that all.

Buddha Bear said:

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Florda_mike said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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This thread still going, even as Trump declares himself "the chosen one" hahaha

Isn't that blasphemy? 400 years ago he woulda been burned at the stake for that

---

^^^ So you wish you could "burn Trump at the stake" now?

My Lord .... help us!

---

Naaa..he and his disciples are just fun to laugh at that all.

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Laughing is good if ya can

I just wish I could more often although Tom funny sometimes for sure. He seems to through it against the wall sometimes and it can be hilarious and other times he sounds like obama. But sometimes I sling it trying to sound like Trump just to get a response tbh

This thread delivers. Talibaptist or Taliban, it's their way or the highway on one's faith. Both aren't growing in size and most people just dismiss them as nutjobs.

BaylorFTW said:

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Buddha Bear said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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quash said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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Bearish said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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cms186 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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I am still waiting on some folks here to deal with what Obama did during his Presidency against the faith rather than deflect. We can't pretend these things didn't happen. Where is all the thoughtful commentary on these points? And should Christians really be supportive of such actions that are contrary to the faith?

---

someone posting a link debunking the chain email OP you made with only about 4 of the points having any factual accuracy

Does all of the Un-Christian things Trump has done or endorsed during his Presidency mean he isnt a Christian?

---

You are making a false claim. The content in the OP is not from a chain email but from a researched book.

You are also making a claim that a number of the points made are not factually accurate. But you have failed to support that claim with any evidence. Since you have already told one whopper, why should we not assume you have made another whopper here too?

Finally, should we assume that since many of you are so quick to deflect to talking about Trump it is an implied admission that you cannot defend Obama's actions against the faith?

---

I've offered you my opinion on this, including a yet unanswered question posed to you. But I think the Trump deflection is more like answering a question with a question, in order to show how petty your argument is. Like this:

Q: Don't you think Obama is a fake Christian because he puts family dogs on Christmas cards and extends marriage benefits to same-sex couples?

A: Um, do you think Trump is a fake Christian because he pronounces it "Two Corinthians" (as in "...walk into a bar") is proven on audio to have degraded women saying "when you're famous you can grab 'em by the *****" and claims we shouldn't be taking refuges from "shthole" countires?

---

I think Trump is probably a lukewarm Christian who hasn't seriously studied the bible. But he has been more supportive of the faith during his time in office even with his other moral failings. As a Presidential figure, I am more interested in what the Presidents do in terms of policies with regard to the faith. In other words, do they make it easier or harder to be a practicing Christian and to spread the Gospel? I think the points I listed show that Obama has made it harder to be a practicing Christian by his policy actions. And considering that he claims to be a Christian, it is very odd and suspect that he would take a whole lot of actions that would do so.

---

So happy we live in a country where church and state are separate. I am shocked that you consider the government in this country to impede or improve your evangelism. Put more more faith in the holy spirit and less in the president.

---

The separation of church and state was done so that there would be no intrusion of the state on religious worship. Ironically, some of Obama's actions did just this as he has made it harder for practicing Christians to follow their faith.

---

The government doesn't stop anyone from going to church, or spreading the word of God. You just cant impose your faith on others with government institutions.

---

This isn't true. The gov't imposes all kinds of rules or permits shenanigans. Look at how street preachers get hassled on public universities, state parks, and so on. See how Bernie Sanders was trying to get a practicing Christian kicked from some appointment because of his beliefs.

In addition, go back and look at that list I posted and you will see a couple of examples where the Obama Administration took away privileges previously given to Christians. And remember in our history we have seen the government remove blasphemy laws, remove prayer in school and other stuff. The government has definitely made restrictions on religious worship.

---

Sigh. Blasphemy laws, you can't be sharious.

Buddha Bear said:

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This thread still going, even as Trump declares himself "the chosen one" hahaha

Isn't that blasphemy? 400 years ago he woulda been burned at the stake for that

---

Two Thessalonians 2:3-10

xiledinok said:

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This thread delivers. Talibaptist or Taliban, it's their way or the highway on one's faith. Both aren't growing in size and most people just dismiss them as nutjobs.

---

You are wise in your own eyes.

Buddha Bear said:

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When you choose one religion over the other, the door is open to discrimination and favoritism. I don't believe America was greater 50 or 100 years ago than it is today. It was different. Better in some ways, worse in others depending on the person. Back when we had Christian religious laws we also had a 90% tax bracket. I don't think we want to bring that back too. People own the government, and the people within this government are represented by every religion, and no religion.

---

Of course, you will favor some religions or practices over others. For example, some religions have supported child sacrifice. You cannot escape making judgments. The postmodern plurality view is a judgment that says no religion can have the answer and that all religions are the same. This of course isn't true but it still makes a value judgment.

Buddha Bear said:

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If people were going to jail for blasphemy in the past, how was this not an adoption of some of the sharia state laws? We certainly did, just under a different religion. I'm glad we have these rights now: If you don't like blasphemy don't do it, and avoid people that do. If you don't like porn, don't watch porn. If some music offends you, don't listen to it.

---

This is incredibly naive. Many of these things are shoved down our throats to where we are forced to consistently deal with them. Their ubiquity makes it more difficult for the faithful to be religiously observant. It isn't simply a matter of deciding not to partake in it. There is lot of pollution you want to ignore. Be serious with yourself. Go to a major city and spend the day. See how many people are using bad language, blasphemy, being scantily clad, playing inappropriate music to where it can be heard outside their car, and so on. On the television, you will see the same stuff. Then, on the computer, you will be given all time of crap ads and it doesn't matter how many filters and what not you try to put up. Even when a person does avoid all these things, they are still forced to deal with a world that has been corrupted by them.

Buddha Bear said:

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People should pay attention to their own bedroom. Their own habits. Their own religion.

---

But they don't. It always spills over into the public square. This sounds nice in theory but in practice it doesn't work. Those who are proud of their vulgarity, nudity and so on aren't interested in keeping their habits to themselves. You merely replace religion with nihilism.

Quote:

---

And I don't agree with following statement at all:
"When you do permit the erosion of certain values thru removal of laws, you are infringing on the rights of those who wish to be religiously observant"

Respectfully, your values are not my values. If you adhere to a certain moral code that your religion teaches, then you should be able to practice it the way it says so (within reason, ie - doesn't cause physical harm). But no religious person has a right to tell me that I should live by their moral code, because it offends them if I don't.

---

But we have already established that your kind of value system has been telling religious people how to live. You aren't the victim. You are the aggressor.

Buddha Bear said:

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No single religion should dictate any laws of society. Morality and religion are not mutually exclusive. Some of the worst, and best people I've ever known are deeply religious. Same goes for those that are not religious.

---

Western Civilization was built with the idea that the values of Christianity were correct. Those values helped usher in modern science and an embarrassment of inventions and innovations that dwarfed what all other civilizations have been able to accomplish in human history. This can't be ignored. And the fact that some people are not good people is a subjective observation for the non religious. It may not be objectively true and those people may have been even worse people without their faith. Plus, I could make the same claim about atheists and agnostics that there are good and bad ones morally.

BaylorFTW said:

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xiledinok said:

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This thread delivers. Talibaptist or Taliban, it's their way or the highway on one's faith. Both aren't growing in size and most people just dismiss them as nutjobs.

---

You are wise in your own eyes.

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You don't know anything and I m sorry but trying to be the ultimate judge is not Godly. People just marginalize crazy nut jobs mixing religion and politics when it comes to who is and who is not.

quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

BaylorFTW said:

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Bearish said:

---

BaylorFTW said:

---

cms186 said:

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BaylorFTW said:

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I am still waiting on some folks here to deal with what Obama did during his Presidency against the faith rather than deflect. We can't pretend these things didn't happen. Where is all the thoughtful commentary on these points? And should Christians really be supportive of such actions that are contrary to the faith?

---

someone posting a link debunking the chain email OP you made with only about 4 of the points having any factual accuracy

Does all of the Un-Christian things Trump has done or endorsed during his Presidency mean he isnt a Christian?

---

You are making a false claim. The content in the OP is not from a chain email but from a researched book.

You are also making a claim that a number of the points made are not factually accurate. But you have failed to support that claim with any evidence. Since you have already told one whopper, why should we not assume you have made another whopper here too?

Finally, should we assume that since many of you are so quick to deflect to talking about Trump it is an implied admission that you cannot defend Obama's actions against the faith?

---

I've offered you my opinion on this, including a yet unanswered question posed to you. But I think the Trump deflection is more like answering a question with a question, in order to show how petty your argument is. Like this:

Q: Don't you think Obama is a fake Christian because he puts family dogs on Christmas cards and extends marriage benefits to same-sex couples?

A: Um, do you think Trump is a fake Christian because he pronounces it "Two Corinthians" (as in "...walk into a bar") is proven on audio to have degraded women saying "when you're famous you can grab 'em by the *****" and claims we shouldn't be taking refuges from "shthole" countires?

---

I think Trump is probably a lukewarm Christian who hasn't seriously studied the bible. But he has been more supportive of the faith during his time in office even with his other moral failings. As a Presidential figure, I am more interested in what the Presidents do in terms of policies with regard to the faith. In other words, do they make it easier or harder to be a practicing Christian and to spread the Gospel? I think the points I listed show that Obama has made it harder to be a practicing Christian by his policy actions. And considering that he claims to be a Christian, it is very odd and suspect that he would take a whole lot of actions that would do so.

---

So happy we live in a country where church and state are separate. I am shocked that you consider the government in this country to impede or improve your evangelism. Put more more faith in the holy spirit and less in the president.

---

I'm happy they're separate despite Obama's best efforts to dictate religious practices. The fact that government can impede evangelism is exactly why they are separate.

---

Weak efforts, and tell me how it impacted evangelism.

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That's no reason not to pay attention. If they were weak, it's only because they were opposed.

---

And how,did the govt impair evangelism?

---

I didn't say it did. You could probably interpret a few of the points in the OP as impairing. We were fortunate to have some good (but close) SCOTUS decisions. The potential was definitely there, though.

twd74 said:

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I am reluctant to judge the Christianity of anyone who calls him self one; as I have enough worries, sinner as I am. Most of the Presidents throughout history have been men of the World, secularists. While most have ascribed to a Christian Faith, many did not appear to practice it overtly. It is interesting to note that the one President in my lifetime who best exemplifies the Christian Witness, Jimmy Carter, was also attacked as unchristian because he, while opposed to abortion, considered Roe V Wade as the law of the land and did not seek to overturn it.

Obama's Father had no input in his Childhood. Being a non-practicing, Atheistic Muslim, he is hardly likely to have made any effort to have his son raised as one. The people who had the most input on his childhood, Mother and Grandparents, identified as Christian. If you read his book, he indicates, his Christian Experience, or "Conversion" if you will, took place in Chicago. I have seen the Holy Spirit work in the most unlikely of circumstances. Having read, and heard his accounting of that experience, I find it to sound authentic-- But then again, I am not the judge over him.

What I find incredulous, is the willingness of Conservatives to overlook the profanity and venal words of Donald Trump. His most recent self ascribing of himself as the "King of the Jews" and "practically the second coming of God," are quite simply the most alarming statements I have ever heard from a President. For those of you who follow scripture, who have read Daniel, Revelation etc., have you noticed yet the hair standing up on the back of your head?

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It is incredulous to the point of a bizarre insanity. Here we have this thread. Trump essentially publicly impliedly rejects Jesus as the messiah by claiming it is really him who who has the role Jesus claimed. And here silence no criticism no rejection of what Trump claims. Just approval of the claim including the implied rejection of Jesus as the messiah by silence. Yet having an issue as to whether Obama is a Christian as if they have the gall to think they are. This has certainly taken a Koresh, Jones, Manson turn.

PartyBear said:

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It is incredulous to the point of a bizarre insanity. Here we have this thread. Trump essentially publicly impliedly rejects Jesus as the messiah by claiming it is really him who who has the role Jesus claimed. And here silence no criticism no rejection of what Trump claims. Just approval of the claim including the implied rejection of Jesus as the messiah by silence. Yet having an issue as to whether Obama is a Christian as if they have the gall to think they are. This has certainly taken a Koresh, Jones, Manson turn.

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Still deflecting, I see. Anything but deal with the question asked.

The Obamas are regular attendees at Alfred Street Baptist in Alexandria VA. Been there. Wonderful church.

PartyBear said:

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twd74 said:

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I am reluctant to judge the Christianity of anyone who calls him self one; as I have enough worries, sinner as I am. Most of the Presidents throughout history have been men of the World, secularists. While most have ascribed to a Christian Faith, many did not appear to practice it overtly. It is interesting to note that the one President in my lifetime who best exemplifies the Christian Witness, Jimmy Carter, was also attacked as unchristian because he, while opposed to abortion, considered Roe V Wade as the law of the land and did not seek to overturn it.

Obama's Father had no input in his Childhood. Being a non-practicing, Atheistic Muslim, he is hardly likely to have made any effort to have his son raised as one. The people who had the most input on his childhood, Mother and Grandparents, identified as Christian. If you read his book, he indicates, his Christian Experience, or "Conversion" if you will, took place in Chicago. I have seen the Holy Spirit work in the most unlikely of circumstances. Having read, and heard his accounting of that experience, I find it to sound authentic-- But then again, I am not the judge over him.

What I find incredulous, is the willingness of Conservatives to overlook the profanity and venal words of Donald Trump. His most recent self ascribing of himself as the "King of the Jews" and "practically the second coming of God," are quite simply the most alarming statements I have ever heard from a President. For those of you who follow scripture, who have read Daniel, Revelation etc., have you noticed yet the hair standing up on the back of your head?

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It is incredulous to the point of a bizarre insanity. Here we have this thread. Trump essentially publicly impliedly rejects Jesus as the messiah by claiming it is really him who who has the role Jesus claimed. And here silence no criticism no rejection of what Trump claims. Just approval of the claim including the implied rejection of Jesus as the messiah by silence. Yet having an issue as to whether Obama is a Christian as if they have the gall to think they are. This has certainly taken a Koresh, Jones, Manson turn.

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Left center poster here. The right loves that he says this kind of stuff, because Trump is obviously joking, and it gets under the left's skin when he makes those kind of comments. Getting all upset about this stuff just makes us look stupid to the avg Trump voter.

That's not all that makes you look stupid, with all due respect

BaylorFTW said:

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PartyBear said:

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It is incredulous to the point of a bizarre insanity. Here we have this thread. Trump essentially publicly impliedly rejects Jesus as the messiah by claiming it is really him who who has the role Jesus claimed. And here silence no criticism no rejection of what Trump claims. Just approval of the claim including the implied rejection of Jesus as the messiah by silence. Yet having an issue as to whether Obama is a Christian as if they have the gall to think they are. This has certainly taken a Koresh, Jones, Manson turn.

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Still deflecting, I see. Anything but deal with the question asked.

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I'll say it again: you don't get to decide who is or is not a christian.

Unless you are St. Peter and have the Book of Life open in front of you, you don't know another man's heart.