D. C. Bear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I worship God but not an old theism God like you.

---

I think you have that backwards, Waco.

My complaint with Theism, has always been that it creates a man-imaged god who exists according to our comprehension, and therefore according to our will.

The God I know is personal, from my creation to His plan to His mercy and love.

I do not follow Jesus because He was a cool dude whose teachings I found useful. I follow the Christ by His Authority,His sacrifice for me and so many others at great pain, even the loss of His life, and His love for all God's creation.

I follow as His unworthy but devoted servant, hoping to live more as He lived, and help others as He helped us.

I know a God of miracles and joy, without limits or end.

I hope one day, you will know Him also.

---

That's your God. Good for you.
Secular humankind doesn't believe in your magical God. BUT the do believe that God is Love and and Follow God's Son Jesus Christ. The supernatural and all powerful stuff is nonsenses. It rips up your little narrow world but they and I are as Christian as you and God accepts us too.

---

If "God accepts us too," that is both magical and supernatural.

---

Nope. That is love and unmerited grace The cross says so. "The power of God is the cross." I Corinthians

---

Yes or no, did Jesus bodily rise from the dead?

---

The same question crossed my mind re Wacko's position on the resurrection and I started to post it, then thought it was probably pointless to ask - lol.

---

It says a lot, that Waco never answers that question.

He knows where it leads.

---

If memory serves, he says Jesus' resurrection was a "spiritual" resurrection. For some reason he does not seem to grasp that, even if Jesus' resurrection was "spiritual," he is still dealing with a supernatural God he says does not exist.

---

I Corinthians 15 35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

So Waco, who has insulted Paul, quotes him.

Fascinating.

Waco1947 said:

---

I Corinthians 15 35 But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

---

Luke 24:36-39:

"Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit. And He said to them, "Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.""

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

All powerful

Keyser Soze said:

---

Generally it is just a figure of speech when we (man) is not in firm control of things.

Deeper, it is about the dichotomy of God being all powerful and the free world that runs it's own course.

How are our choices free will yet God already knows our choices?

---

You are close to the kingdom of God

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

---

Deny the Bible if you choose, Waco. I will not, for there is where the Lord left us His clear words.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

---

Deny the Bible if you choose, Waco. I will not, for there is where the Lord left us His clear words.

---

"Deny the Bible". I believe it seriously and spiritually Not literally. "Jesus passes through walls." John 20
"Jesus is the Lamb of God." Literal? Jesus is a lamb?
Really Oldbear? Really? I don't believe the "old theism" of the Bible.
I believe the basic message of the Bible "God is love and that I am of worth because I can make decisions in the existential moment."
But God manipulating physics? That's Easter bunny talk.

It means that God is in control of every situation. And can intervene any time he wants to. God can do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

---

Deny the Bible if you choose, Waco. I will not, for there is where the Lord left us His clear words.

---

"Deny the Bible". I believe it seriously and spiritually Not literally. "Jesus passes through walls." John 20
"Jesus is the Lamb of God." Literal? Jesus is a lamb?
Really Oldbear? Really? I don't believe the "old theism" of the Bible.
I believe the basic message of the Bible "God is love and that I am of worth because I can make decisions in the existential moment."
But God manipulating physics? That's Easter bunny talk.

---

The Bible clearly says things which you reject.

Ergo yes, you are denying the Bible, and the literal words of Christ.

Now regarding the lamb of God, if you had really gone to seminary and been ordained, you would know that is a call-back to Old Testament prophecy, which was rich in symbolism. The Bible has parts which are symbolic and parts which are literal. When the text specifically observes that all the doors were locked but Christ showed up anyway, then also points out that Jesus confirmed He was physically present, that is God telling you very clearly, without question, that He is supernatural, that He can work within the laws of physics or ignore them as He pleases.

This is consistent throughout Scripture. Walking on water, turning water to wine, healing the lame and the blind and the deaf, these are all documented in Scripture and what's more they are call-backs to the past work of God (walking on water for example, reminds us of God saving the Hebrews by parting the Red Sea) . This too is something every seminary student learns early on.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

---

Deny the Bible if you choose, Waco. I will not, for there is where the Lord left us His clear words.

---

"Deny the Bible". I believe it seriously and spiritually Not literally. "Jesus passes through walls." John 20
"Jesus is the Lamb of God." Literal? Jesus is a lamb?
Really Oldbear? Really? I don't believe the "old theism" of the Bible.
I believe the basic message of the Bible "God is love and that I am of worth because I can make decisions in the existential moment."
But God manipulating physics? That's Easter bunny talk.

---

You claim to believe in a spiritual realm.
The Creator either exists or does not. If God does not exist, any and all talk of spirituality is meaningless. If God does exist, then God is either active or not in the world. If God is not active in the world, any talk of Jesus offering any truth at all is foolish. Any talk of grace or the love of God is foolish. If God is active in the world, pontificating, as you do, about what God does or does not do, is foolish. You can't have it both ways, either Jesus is God incarnate and, therefore, God messes with the physical world, or he is not God incarnate and any talk of grace and forgiveness related to him is meaningless.

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

Physical yet not subject to the laws of physics as men like Waco know them.

Deny it all you will, Waco, that's God telling you He is Supernatural.

---

Thanking God for sparing you in a natural disaster is like sending a thank-you note to a serial killer for stabbing the family next door. Betty Bowers
God doesn't spare us. Chance and chaos may or may not save us from losing our lives but one thing is for sure God is with us and loves us and that's the Truth and the Basic Biblical Truth about God.
But cling to your supernatural God Oldbear and lose a generations o f young people.

---

Deny the Bible if you choose, Waco. I will not, for there is where the Lord left us His clear words.

---

"Deny the Bible". I believe it seriously and spiritually Not literally. "Jesus passes through walls." John 20
"Jesus is the Lamb of God." Literal? Jesus is a lamb?
Really Oldbear? Really? I don't believe the "old theism" of the Bible.
I believe the basic message of the Bible "God is love and that I am of worth because I can make decisions in the existential moment."
But God manipulating physics? That's Easter bunny talk.

---

So God is not all powerful?

BUMBA1 said:

---

It means that God is in control of every situation. And can intervene any time he wants to. God can do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

---

And if you believe that and insist every seeker believe it too then every potential secular disciple will turn away that would be sad.

Waco1947 said:

---

BUMBA1 said:

---

It means that God is in control of every situation. And can intervene any time he wants to. God can do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

---

And if you believe that and insist every seeker believe it too then every potential secular disciple will turn away that would be sad.

---

A "seeker" can believe anything he or she wants, but I am not going to lie to someone and tell them they can be a follower of Jesus and hold on to the belief that there is no God.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BUMBA1 said:

---

It means that God is in control of every situation. And can intervene any time he wants to. God can do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

---

And if you believe that and insist every seeker believe it too then every potential secular disciple will turn away that would be sad.

---

A "seeker" can believe anything he or she wants, but I am not going to lie to someone and tell them they can be a follower of Jesus and hold on to the belief that there is no God.

---

Who said "No God""?"

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BUMBA1 said:

---

It means that God is in control of every situation. And can intervene any time he wants to. God can do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants.

---

And if you believe that and insist every seeker believe it too then every potential secular disciple will turn away that would be sad.

---

A "seeker" can believe anything he or she wants, but I am not going to lie to someone and tell them they can be a follower of Jesus and hold on to the belief that there is no God.

---

Who said "No God""?"

---

A God who does nothing in the physical world is no God at all. If Jesus is God incarnate, then God does things in the physical world. One cannot be a follower of Jesus while simultaneously holding that God does not physically intervene in history because the incarceration is physically intervening in history.

DC "A God who does nothing in the physical world is no God at all. If Jesus is God incarnate, then God does things in the physical world. One cannot be a follower of Jesus while simultaneously holding that God does not physically intervene in history because the incarceration is physically intervening in history."
God is love. Jesus Christ is God's Son. The witness of scripture is clear.
God does not intervene in history except through love. How do you physically express love to family, neighbor, or enemy because of your discipleship to Jesus? That's God.
Old Theism is not God.

Coke "How does Thomas touch a spirit? He doesn't. He touches the actual flesh of Jesus.

Jesus is in his resurrected body. At the end of times, we ALL will receive our resurrected body with abilities similar to Jesus: Walk thru walls, move at the speed of thought, etc.

Your false theology has your thought process way off base.

Please know that I pray for you daily to return to the true teachings of Christ, not some 20th century, man-made pseudo-theology."
The story is a metaphor and real truth. Truth with a capital T. Truth like the the Patable of the Two Sons is truth. You touch the the spirit of people daily by loving them. Is that not Truth?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

DC "A God who does nothing in the physical world is no God at all. If Jesus is God incarnate, then God does things in the physical world. One cannot be a follower of Jesus while simultaneously holding that God does not physically intervene in history because the incarceration is physically intervening in history."
God is love. Jesus Christ is God's Son. The witness of scripture is clear.
God does not intervene in history except through love. How do you physically express love to family, neighbor, or enemy because of your discipleship to Jesus? That's God.
Old Theism is not God.

---

The witness of scripture is clear that God intervened in history physically in the incarnation. Jesus is not a metaphor.

---

Of course scripture is clear about God being all powerful. But the writers of the scripture thought and theology were an old theism about power. What is more clear about the witness of scripture is God's grace and love.

Waco1947 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

DC "A God who does nothing in the physical world is no God at all. If Jesus is God incarnate, then God does things in the physical world. One cannot be a follower of Jesus while simultaneously holding that God does not physically intervene in history because the incarceration is physically intervening in history."
God is love. Jesus Christ is God's Son. The witness of scripture is clear.
God does not intervene in history except through love. How do you physically express love to family, neighbor, or enemy because of your discipleship to Jesus? That's God.
Old Theism is not God.

---

The witness of scripture is clear that God intervened in history physically in the incarnation. Jesus is not a metaphor.

---

Of course scripture is clear about God being all powerful. But the writers of the scripture thought and theology were an old theism about power. What is more clear about the witness of scripture is God's grace and love.

---

Scripture is clear that Jesus is not a metaphor. Stop pretending otherwise.

God could not be grace and love while not being power as well. In fact, the degree to which God can be grace and love is entirely dependent on God also being powerful. Grace requires power. Ultimate grace requires ultimate power.

The argument that is most difficult is the existential one. People no longer experience God as all powerful as the scriptures indicate and if such such a God does exist then they wonder how can God let evil happen. Your theodicies do not convince such as "God knows best" or "Its God mysterious will." They sound like a load of nonsense. That's tough for conservatives and evangelicals to hear but it is a reality. Your best argument will always be -let go of your d theism and embrace the God of love and Jesus Christ as God's Son who best shows God's love for us. Those concepts will win you converts to the Christian faith.
Otherwise you are asking them to believe in a magical God who intervened in the physical on some kind of whim that you think is mysterious and good but secular people see as asinine and silly. God is too wonderful in God's love and presence to be reduced to silliness of being at our beck and call to intervene

D. C. Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The argument that is most difficult is the existential one. People no longer experience God as all powerful as the scriptures indicate and if such such a God does exist then they wonder how can God let evil happen. Your theodicies do not convince such as "God knows best" or "Its God mysterious will." They sound like a load of nonsense. That's tough for conservatives and evangelicals to hear but it is a reality. Your best argument will always be -let go of your d theism and embrace the God of love and Jesus Christ as God's Son who best shows God's love for us. Those concepts will win you converts to the Christian faith.
Otherwise you are asking them to believe in a magical God who intervened in the physical on some kind of whim that you think is mysterious and good but secular people see as asinine and silly. God is too wonderful in God's love and presence to be reduced to silliness of being at our beck and call to intervene

---

People saw Jesus and the cross as asinine and silly from the beginning.

You claim Jesus is the Son of God while simultaneously claiming that God does not intervene in history except through love, although you don't seem to have an explanation of what that actually is.

Jesus wasn't a metaphor, nor was his resurrection metaphorical according to his followers. You say He was a real person, but that He wasn't actually raised from the dead, He was metaphorically raised.

Where did you come up with the idea that God was at our "beck and call?" That's not Christian theology. There is a lot of space between "God is at our beck and call" and "God never actually intervenes in history."

---

I came up with it because guys like you endow God with supernatural powers that "if we pray with faith then God answers our prayer."
Why do you pray for a miracle if you did not think God just might, just might answer that prayer with a miracle.
Those prayers are as old as humankind. You ask in Prayers and rituals to grant you a favor. Humans want to control God's supposed supernatural powers.
If your child is sick you know durn well if cannot manipulate God to heal that child then you would be give up in that God because you cannot justify "God is love" and "God is supernatural." Theodicies all fail.
My existentialist argument still stands because it reflects reality because 1) God is not supernatural and 2) our existence is in a physical world of physics, chemistry and biology. No scientist includes God in the equation of existentialism nor do secular people.
I turn to God not so God manipulate science but so I can be open to God's love and to strengthen my faith in the vicissitudes and chaos of life.

Waco: "I came up with it because guys like you endow God with supernatural powers that "if we pray with faith then God answers our prayer."

You don't believe God answers prayers?

My daughter is alive because God answers prayers, I am alive because God answers prayers.

Waco1947 said:

---

So he passes through walls? John 20: 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Sounds like a body that Paul said would "appropriate" not physical.

---

You are so confused it's beyond belief. You quote scripture where Jesus is inviting his disciples to touch his physical body to prove, as Jesus himself says DIRECTLY, that he has "flesh and bones", even having the same wounds he suffered during his crucifixion.... yet the very next thought you have is "sounds like a body that [is] not physical." You can't make this up. Honestly, are you a troll?

Waco1947 said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

In 1536, English theologian and scholar William Tyndale, who was the first to translate the Bible into Early Modern English, was executed for heresy.

---

Let's put some actual facts around this misconception ...

• First, many approved English translations existed centuries prior to Tynedale.
• A law was written in 1408 prohibiting the reading of unauthorized English bibles because John Wycliff's version was corrupt and full of heresy.
• Tyndale, at best was a mediocre scholar. He had a bad reputation of a violent temper, contempt with authority, and history of insulting all manner of clergy.
• Tyndale's version contained more than 2000 errors in the NT only.
• Its prologue was full of contempt for the Catholic church.
• King Henry VIII, declared that "the translation of Scripture corrupted by Tyndale should be utterly expelled, rejected, and put away out the hands of the people."
• It was secular authorities that did him in.
• He was arrested and tried in the court of the Holy Roman Emperor in 1536 for heresy because his bible was full of heresy. Not because it was in English.

---

Inquisition called - we were head hunters for the Pope and I do mean head hunters. Binary thinkers have always attempted to quiet Differing views.

---

It is a real chuckle, when a simpleton binary thinker as yourself, calls a complex man with actual knowledge and a variety of thought, what you are.

Waco1947 said:

---

If your child is sick you know durn well if cannot manipulate God to heal that child then you would be give up in that God because you cannot justify "God is love" and "God is supernatural." Theodicies all fail.

---

47 - You are speaking about yourself now. Many others, as painful as it may be, understand that God has a reason to take that life.

If He is the author of life, then He can take it when He wants to.

Most of us understand that no one can manipulate God. We can pray to God for request. Just because He doesn't give us want we want, doesn't mean that He doesn't love us. It's because He loves us SO much that He doesn't give us what we want. Only God knows whats best for us. He will give us what we need. We may never know why this child died on this side of the veil. We can be assured at the end of times, God will reveal all to us.

We also understand that our mortal lives on earth are just a blink of the eye compared to an eternal with God in heaven basking in the beatific vision.

We shouldn't weep for the child. We can mourn with the parents over the lose; however, that child (hopefully) now in heaven has it better that the richest person on earth.

Waco1947 said:

---

The argument that is most difficult is the existential one. People no longer experience God as all powerful as the scriptures indicate and if such such a God does exist then they wonder how can God let evil happen. Your theodicies do not convince such as "God knows best" or "Its God mysterious will." They sound like a load of nonsense. That's tough for conservatives and evangelicals to hear but it is a reality. Your best argument will always be -let go of your d theism and embrace the God of love and Jesus Christ as God's Son who best shows God's love for us. Those concepts will win you converts to the Christian faith.
Otherwise you are asking them to believe in a magical God who intervened in the physical on some kind of whim that you think is mysterious and good but secular people see as asinine and silly. God is too wonderful in God's love and presence to be reduced to silliness of being at our beck and call to intervene

---

There's a difference between believing God CAN, and God DOES. The trouble you are having is you believe that if God doesn't, it means he can't. That is logically fallacious.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Where did you come up with the idea that God was at our "beck and call?" That's not Christian theology. There is a lot of space between "God is at our beck and call" and "God never actually intervenes in history."

---

Precisely... and an even greater space between "God never actually intervenes in history" and "God can't intervene"