Do Polls Exaggerate the Challenges for a Gay Presidential Candidate?

1,573 Views | 21 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Oldbear83
Osodecentx
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I think this will sink him

"Bradley effect" which refers to a tendency of voters to tell interviewers or pollsters that they are undecided or likely to vote for a black candidate, but then actually vote for his white opponent


Do Polls Exaggerate the Challenges for a Gay Presidential Candidate?
They have a poor record on predicting behavior around social issues and disfavored groups.
By Nathaniel Frank
Mr. Frank is the author of "Awakening: How Gays and Lesbians Brought Marriage Equality to America."

As Pete Buttigieg, the openly gay mayor of South Bend, Ind., has surged to a top position in Iowa polls in the Democratic presidential primary, media reports have emerged warnings that his sexuality may yet derail his White House bid. A recent national Politico/Morning Consult poll found that a plurality of voters, 45 percent, think the country is not ready for an openly gay president, with only 40 percent saying it's ready. Consultants have chimed into say the mayor may be less electable than coastal elites realize because he's gay.
Ordinary voters are quoted saying they or their "devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay." And the Buttigieg campaign's own focus groups recently found that many undecided black voters in South Carolina regard the candidate's sexual orientation as a "barrier" to winning their votes.
But the power of polls to predict behavior around social issues and disfavored groups has always been poor, and what we know about people's attitudes and actions when it comes to L.G.B.T. concerns tells a cautionary tale about how to interpret claims by voters that they won't support an openly gay candidate for president.
Pollsters have long known about the poor predictive power of asking respondents how they would treat members of an unfavored minority group, especially in politically polarized climates. In the 1930s, following a period, like today, of growing anti-immigrant sentiment, the Stanford researcher Richard LaPiere crisscrossed the country with a Chinese couple, visiting hundreds of hotels and restaurants. Nearly all of them welcomed the group as patrons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/opinion/pete-buttigieg-polls.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Not sure, but I have no doubt Vladamir Putin is trying to determine if Mayor Pete is a top or a bottom.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
Osodecentx
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wife
Mitch Blood Green
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His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think until after New Hampshire. At that time, we will know our choices.
Osodecentx
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tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think
I disagree with first sentence. It may be irrelevant to you

Agree with second because of Bradley effect (because devout Christian mothers, fathers, sons and daughter won't level with anonymous pollsters)

"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think until after New Hampshire. At that time, we will know our choices.
I beg to differ. He made his campaign about his sexuality from the start. Older, more centrist Democratic voters are not on board. Most black voters are not on board. Both groups prefer a senile Joe Biden. I don't care what the polls say.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
Mitch Blood Green
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Osodecentx said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think
I disagree with first sentence. It may be irrelevant to you

Agree with second because of Bradley effect (because devout Christian mothers, fathers, sons and daughter won't level with anonymous pollsters)

"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."


I'll try again. It's relevant when we get a choice. If (unlikely) he performs poorly in Iowa and New Hampshire, it won't matter to anyone in Texas and Florida.

It's possible that I like Kamala Harris and Bill Weld. I can't vote for them.

I bet if you put an R behind that gay, she'd sell out all her principles and help him glamorize.
Mitch Blood Green
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think until after New Hampshire. At that time, we will know our choices.
I beg to differ. He made his campaign about his sexuality from the start. Older, more centrist Democratic voters are not on board. Most black voters are not on board. Both groups prefer a senile Joe Biden. I don't care what the polls say.


You don't know that. In the abstract there are things about all candidates people don't like. In this climate, G won't be on the ballet. Just D and R.
Osodecentx
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tommie said:

Osodecentx said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think
I disagree with first sentence. It may be irrelevant to you

Agree with second because of Bradley effect (because devout Christian mothers, fathers, sons and daughter won't level with anonymous pollsters)

"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."




I bet if you put an R behind that gay, she'd sell out all her principles and help him glamorize.
and I'd take that bet
"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."
Mitch Blood Green
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Osodecentx said:

tommie said:

Osodecentx said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think
I disagree with first sentence. It may be irrelevant to you

Agree with second because of Bradley effect (because devout Christian mothers, fathers, sons and daughter won't level with anonymous pollsters)

"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."




I bet if you put an R behind that gay, she'd sell out all her principles and help him glamorize.
and I'd take that bet
"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."


The last three elections (presidential) had "would never" qualities that people voted for. You giving me the R?

Hell, I don't need the R. Let him get to Super Tuesday.
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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tommie said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think until after New Hampshire. At that time, we will know our choices.
I beg to differ. He made his campaign about his sexuality from the start. Older, more centrist Democratic voters are not on board. Most black voters are not on board. Both groups prefer a senile Joe Biden. I don't care what the polls say.


You don't know that. In the abstract there are things about all candidates people don't like. In this climate, G won't be on the ballet. Just D and R.


You know better than that, my friend. Like it or not, G is on the ballot. Not saying it's right, just saying it is reality.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
JXL
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Buttigeig's problems are that he is anti-gay:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/lgbt-activists-lash-out-at-pete-buttigieg-over-his-bell-ringing-for-homophobic-salvation-army

And that he is a white male.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ccb3cc5e4b0d12395505bd8?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA6U-KeDo9TUybOAkVnhtLSWRk6jWOZTw4ns8qfLlUhchMHwFNEdAdp_Cp6JoonA2SsJVYujqR1YG23dYLlAiWMsKY120intZoUu26jCLTDuBgngMexKJnP7DEyuYoyckfp_TinQ-gCauz_wF47c4eQBAqfVvDHQ7IIHz7B8H52L
Osodecentx
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tommie said:

Osodecentx said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think
I disagree with first sentence. It may be irrelevant to you

Agree with second because of Bradley effect (because devout Christian mothers, fathers, sons and daughter won't level with anonymous pollsters)

"devout Christian" mother "would never vote for a gay."

I bet if you put an R behind that gay, she'd sell out all her principles and help him glamorize.
If Hillary, Bernie or Warren are the other choices, she just might
Coke Bear
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From what I heard, he rarely spent time in his own city as mayor. I think that once his true colors expose him as a fraud, he won't hold up to the scrutiny from his own party.
Osodecentx
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Coke Bear said:

From what I heard, he rarely spent time in his own city as mayor. I think that once his true colors expose him as a fraud, he won't hold up to the scrutiny from his own party.
He is non-traditional. He refused to take his husband's name
william
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is this about bootyfudge? the sodomite?

PA.

- UL

... and, as always, TIA.
quash
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Gay is fine, Mormon is fine, just don't be an atheist.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Mitch Blood Green
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

tommie said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

tommie said:

His homosexuality is irrelevant so far. We won't know what people think until after New Hampshire. At that time, we will know our choices.
I beg to differ. He made his campaign about his sexuality from the start. Older, more centrist Democratic voters are not on board. Most black voters are not on board. Both groups prefer a senile Joe Biden. I don't care what the polls say.


You don't know that. In the abstract there are things about all candidates people don't like. In this climate, G won't be on the ballet. Just D and R.


You know better than that, my friend. Like it or not, G is on the ballot. Not saying it's right, just saying it is reality.



Not yet it ain't. Looking at it differently, it's not that there's a gay candidate it's that he has to get through before I can decide whether to vote for him.
Oldbear83
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Here's how I see the issue.

Let's say I decide to run for Governor. It also happens that I have a pet squirrel. I love my pet squirrel, and almost everyone is cool with that.

But suppose I start bringing my squirrel with me to public appearances, debates, media events. I talk about my squirrel even when answering questions that have nothing at all to do with squirrels.

In such a case, while people are going to be fine with me having a pet squirrel, they will find it strange that I seem to obsess on that squirrel. People would naturally wonder if I was properly focused on real issues if my squirrel seemed more important to me than issue like crime or taxes.

Mayor Pete already has some obstacles in his way to getting the DNC nomination. He's white, and his government experience is limited to being mayor of a relatively small town. And so for Pete G. to have a real chance he needs to show serious chops as a problem solver of the main economic issues and foreign policy discussion. Being gay is not a detriment, but neither is it an asset.

Pete should stay away from talking about being gay.
quash
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Oldbear83 said:

Here's how I see the issue.

Let's say I decide to run for Governor. It also happens that I have a pet squirrel. I love my pet squirrel, and almost everyone is cool with that.

But suppose I start bringing my squirrel with me to public appearances, debates, media events. I talk about my squirrel even when answering questions that have nothing at all to do with squirrels.

In such a case, while people are going to be fine with me having a pet squirrel, they will find it strange that I seem to obsess on that squirrel. People would naturally wonder if I was properly focused on real issues if my squirrel seemed more important to me than issue like crime or taxes.

Mayor Pete already has some obstacles in his way to getting the DNC nomination. He's white, and his government experience is limited to being mayor of a relatively small town. And so for Pete G. to have a real chance he needs to show serious chops as a problem solver of the main economic issues and foreign policy discussion. Being gay is not a detriment, but neither is it an asset.

Pete should stay away from talking about being gay.
His governing background is more extensive than the current (white) president. Trump got elected for being himself, why not let the mayor campaign on who he is?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Oldbear83
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quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

Here's how I see the issue.

Let's say I decide to run for Governor. It also happens that I have a pet squirrel. I love my pet squirrel, and almost everyone is cool with that.

But suppose I start bringing my squirrel with me to public appearances, debates, media events. I talk about my squirrel even when answering questions that have nothing at all to do with squirrels.

In such a case, while people are going to be fine with me having a pet squirrel, they will find it strange that I seem to obsess on that squirrel. People would naturally wonder if I was properly focused on real issues if my squirrel seemed more important to me than issue like crime or taxes.

Mayor Pete already has some obstacles in his way to getting the DNC nomination. He's white, and his government experience is limited to being mayor of a relatively small town. And so for Pete G. to have a real chance he needs to show serious chops as a problem solver of the main economic issues and foreign policy discussion. Being gay is not a detriment, but neither is it an asset.

Pete should stay away from talking about being gay.
His governing background is more extensive than the current (white) president. Trump got elected for being himself, why not let the mayor campaign on who he is?
Trump smartly ran on a mix of economic policy promises, where his business experience was relevant. He also listened to the GOP voters about their most important issues, and spoke to those rather than his personal hobbies and habits.

Pete G. has a mixed bag in his resume as Mayor. He'd be wiser to focus on how he would protect jobs and be tough on China.
ABC BEAR
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Osodecentx said:

Coke Bear said:

From what I heard, he rarely spent time in his own city as mayor. I think that once his true colors expose him as a fraud, he won't hold up to the scrutiny from his own party.
He is non-traditional. He refused to take his husband's name
He should at least hyphenate, even if he is the mayor of South Bendover.
Oldbear83
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quash said:

Gay is fine, Mormon is fine, just don't be an atheist.
That never hurt LBJ.
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