Porteroso said:

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BaylorTaxman said:

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Bearitto said:
"It occurs to me that the Wuhan flu, if left to burn through the population, would not negatively impact school or working age adults in any long term significant manner. It will, instead, likely cull large portions of the population that are much older, infirm, using significant portions of medical bandwidth already and drawing on currently overtaxed social welfare systems like social security. Therefor, the losses we are all discussing are very unlikely to affect the productive population of the country and would likely reduce long term liabilities and stressors placed on the economy by the sickest among the elderly population."

---

Ouch. I should find the Baylor Bear nailed to the cross that popped up on shaggybevo a decade ago. Nailed by his own words. But he's still posting lots of "I know what's happening" information, so we should keep listening to him.

---

You should consider really attempting reading for comprehension and in context. In lieu of that, just posting pictures sounds perfect for you. Perhaps you can even print them out and color them.

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is trying into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's important to call a thing by its correct name. Chinese virus or Wuhan virus are correct. It's important to not advance communist Chinese propaganda and cover up Chinese malfeasance that led to this outbreak. The left continues working exceptionally hard on behalf of the Chinese communist party.

DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

Great decision.

DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

We are not all going to die. Actually 98 percent of those infected are going to live. But almost 100 percent of Americans are going to suffer financially now and many years going forward because of the hype and idiocy. The most shocking and disappointing thing is how many of our Village Idiots have bought into this crap. Americans should no longer be allowed to reproduce. Simply embarrassing.

I give Gal Gadot a lot of slack due to her hotness but celebrity sing alongs cross the line. !!!

Jack Bauer said:

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I give Gal Gadot a lot of slack due to her hotness but celebrity sing alongs cross the line. !!!

---

A lot of millionaires singing a song about communism. It's like atheists singing hymns.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

We are not all going to die. Actually 98 percent of those infected are going to live. But almost 100 percent of Americans are going to suffer financially now and many years going forward because of the hype and idiocy. The most shocking and disappointing thing is how many of our Village Idiots have bought into this crap. Americans should no longer be allowed to reproduce. Simply embarrassing.

---

Of course we aren't all going to die, but many important people to many of us are at risk to die according to the PROFESSIONALS. I hope this is overblown and my parents and people I know w/ autoimmune diseases are safe, but that is not what is being said by healthcare professionals across the entire f'ing planet. I get it, you seem like a conspiracy theorist who wants to find fault in everything that people much more versed in what is going on is telling the world. If you want to bury your head up your own a** then go for it. I am fearful for the economic fallout of everything, but if we call get through 9/11 and 08 then we can get through this. You can keep on living your self righteous fantasy, but I'll defer to medical professionals on this.

DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

Serious question: Why are you only wanting to listen to infectious disease experts? Why the incredibly narrow view?

If you truly cared about human suffering, you'd be listening to economists and sociologists as well. If you care only about slowing the virus then you're blind to all the other societal costs of doing so. How do you not recognize that it's possible for the cost of the solution to be higher than the cost of the problem?

bearassnekkid said:

---

DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

Serious question: Why are you only wanting to listen to infectious disease experts? Why the incredibly narrow view?

If you truly cared about human suffering, you'd be listening to economists and sociologists as well. If you care only about slowing the virus then you're blind to all the other societal costs of doing so. How do you not recognize that it's possible for the cost of the solution to be higher than the cost of the problem?

---

I listen to them because they are experts in this particular field. If I was sick w/ cancer I would probably listen to my oncologist on the matter more than my stock broker. Like I said, there will be tremendous financial repercussions of all of this...but I remember in 08 people were saying it will take decades to get back to normal and it only took a few years. There are trends and precedents we see in the markets based on the past...this is a novel global epidemic that is only just getting started according to professionals. I would rather hope for the best and prepare for the worst than not take this seriously and it claims many lives and drags on longer than it should if people just take the proper precautions.

Porteroso said:

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Bearitto said:

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You should consider really attempting reading for comprehension and in context. In lieu of that, just posting pictures sounds perfect for you. Perhaps you can even print them out and color them.

---

You're impressing nobody other than yourself bud. This isn't Dr Pepper hour anymore, that's long gone for you. Trying to post with some amount of intellect can be difficult on the internet, and I do realize we are all passionate, and rarely hold opinions we believe to be wrong. However, you can do a better job.

---

Seriously, you should print those pictures out. Make sure you print B&W or you will not be able to use your favorite colors. Enjoy.

bearassnekkid said:

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The ONLY thing that could justify this kind of hysteria is mortality rate. Nothing else would excuse the self-imposed destruction we are wreaking on our society. So why is NOBODY talking about the fact that we are reporting mortality rate for corona in a completely different way than we track/report mortality rate for influenza?

In the case of corona, we are reporting deaths as a % of confirmed cases. For influenza we report deaths as a % of estimated cases. According to the CDC, so far this flu season we have done approximately 1.1 million flu tests in the U.S., and there have been approximately 265k positive results. They estimate flu deaths to be around 35,000. That is a mortality rate of 13.2% of confirmed cases. Except that's not how we report it.

The CDC estimates approximately 43 Million actual cases of influenza, and reports the death as a percentage of that . . . which makes the mortality rate 0.08%. But here we are reporting corona deaths with completely unknown data, at super high rates, using a totally different metric, and scaring the crap out of everyone and shutting down the entire economy. Why on earth would we do that? And why isn't anyone doing the macro analysis on the actual cost in human suffering of the measures we're taking vs. the cost in human suffering of the virus running its course with more reasonable measures taken that keep the economy intact? Does no one care about all the additional suicides? Or depression? Or chemical dependency? Of divorce rates? Or domestic abuse? Or all the other stress-related illnesses? All we care about is the virus itself? We're listening to virologists, who are only looking at one little piece of the puzzle? It is pure insanity.

---

Bud, the mortality rate for the flu is out there, you don't have to do your own new math. Want me to google it for you? .1%, which is pretty different from what you say, but don't let google stop you. Big Science is trying to suppress you.

Quote:

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The only thing that would justify these kind of restrictions is mortality rate

---

nope.

Quote:

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In a series of tweets, Jeremy C. Young, Assistant Professor of History at Dixie State, summarized what the report says would happen if the U.S. does absolutely nothing. That is, if we treat COVID-19 like the flu, go about our business, and let the virus take its course. The Imperial College team plugged infection and death rates from China, Korea, and Italy into epidemic modeling software and ran a simulation... Here's what would happen:80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself. It gets worse. People with severe COVID-19 need to be put on ventilators. 50% of those on ventilators still die, but the other 50% live. But in an unmitigated epidemic, the need for ventilators would be 30 times the number available in the US. Nearly 100% of these patients die.


So the actual death toll from the virus would be closer to 4 million Americans -- in a span of 3 months. 8-15% of all Americans over 70 would die. How many is 4 million people? It's more Americans than have died all at once from anything, ever. It's the population of Los Angeles. It's 4 times the number of Americans who died in the Civil War...on both sides combined. It's two-thirds as many people as died in the Holocaust. Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. If we extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world (warning: MOE is high here), this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19, in 3-6 months. 15 Holocausts. 1.5 times as many people as died in all of World War II.

---

Bearitto said:

"It occurs to me that the Wuhan flu, if left to burn through the population, would not negatively impact school or working age adults in any long term significant manner. It will, instead, likely cull large portions of the population that are much older, infirm, using significant portions of medical bandwidth already and drawing on currently overtaxed social welfare systems like social security. Therefor, the losses we are all discussing are very unlikely to affect the productive population of the country and would likely reduce long term liabilities and stressors placed on the economy by the sickest among the elderly population."

"cull large portions" Eugenics called - they want their propaganda back

Bearitto said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is trying into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's important to call a thing by its correct name. Chinese virus or Wuhan virus are correct. It's important to not advance communist Chinese propaganda and cover up Chinese malfeasance that led to this outbreak. The left continues working exceptionally hard on behalf of the Chinese communist party.

---

This thing is a disease. There are conventions for naming diseases. If you really think it is important to use a correct name please set out which convention you and the president are following.

bearassnekkid said:

---

DancinBear09 said:

---

Man, I'm so relieved that there are so many epidemiologists and qualified medical professionals on this board telling the TRUTH about how phony and overhyped coronavirus is. I guess I'll stop paying attention to Anthony Fauci, Kathryn Jacobsen and Michael Osterholm and instead just read these threads for advice.

---

Serious question: Why are you only wanting to listen to infectious disease experts? Why the incredibly narrow view?

If you truly cared about human suffering, you'd be listening to economists and sociologists as well. If you care only about slowing the virus then you're blind to all the other societal costs of doing so. How do you not recognize that it's possible for the cost of the solution to be higher than the cost of the problem?

---

No, he was responding medical concerns,

quash said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is trying into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's important to call a thing by its correct name. Chinese virus or Wuhan virus are correct. It's important to not advance communist Chinese propaganda and cover up Chinese malfeasance that led to this outbreak. The left continues working exceptionally hard on behalf of the Chinese communist party.

---

This thing is a disease. There are conventions for naming diseases. If you really think it is important to use a correct name please set out which convention you and the president are following.

---

Origin or attributable origin.

Here are 17 other diseases named after populations or places of origin. Hope this helps you understand.

West Nile Virus
Named after the West Nile District of Uganda discovered in 1937.

Guinea Worm
Named by European explorers for the Guinea coast of West Africa in the 1600s.

Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Named after the mountain range spreading across western North America first recognized first in 1896 in Idaho.

Lyme Disease
Named after a large outbreak of the disease occurred in Lyme and Old Lyme, Connecticut in the 1970s.

Ross River Fever
Named after a mosquito found to cause the disease in the Ross River of Queensland, Australia by the 1960s. The first major outbreak occurred in 1928.

Omsk Hemorrhagic Fever
Named after its 1940s discovery in Omsk, Russia.

Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever
Named in 1976 for the Ebola River in Zaire located in central Africa.

Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)
Also known as "camel flu," MERS was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and all cases are linked to those who traveled to the Middle Eastern peninsula.

Valley Fever
Valley Fever earned its nickname from a 1930s outbreak San Joaquin Valley of California, though its first case came from Argentina.

Marburg Virus Disease
Named after Marburg, Germany in 1967.

Norovirus
Named after Norwalk, Ohio after an outbreak in 1968.

Zika Fever
First discovered in 1947 and named after the Zika Forest in Uganda.

Japanese Encephalitis
Named after its first case in Japan in 1871.

German Measles
Named after the German doctors who first described it in the 18th century. The disease is also sometimes referred to as "Rubella."

Spanish Flu
While the true origins of the Spanish Flu remain unknown, the disease earned its name after Spain began to report deaths from the flu in its newspapers.

Lassa Fever
Named after the being found in Lassa, Nigeria in 1969.

Legionnaire's Disease
Named in 1976 following an outbreak of people contracting the lung infection after attending an American Legion convention in Philadelphia.

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

tommie said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

I would hope my President is pissed at the country that lied and hid the severity of this virus which could have reduced the spread.

tommie said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

The adults are focused on solutions. The children are focusing on how to blame someone.

Oldbear83 said:

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tommie said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

The adults are focused on solutions. The children are focusing on how to blame someone.

---

.....and thank heaven that Trump and his administration are the adults focusing on solutions.

ABC BEAR said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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tommie said:

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PartyBear said:

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HuMcK said:

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contrario said:

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blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

The adults are focused on solutions. The children are focusing on how to blame someone.

---

.....and thank heaven that Trump and his administration are the adults focusing on solutions.

---

When they're not blaming China, Obama or ripping Europe's response.

The folks on both sides of this stupid debate need to start acting like adults and stop politicizing a pandemic. And that includes our president, who can't get through one freaking press conference without starting/prolonging one childish spat or another.

China's cover-up in the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak is a big deal, without question. And it needs to be dealt with appropriately at the appropriate time. But the top priority now is slowing the spread in our own country. And rants about China, Europe and the press only serve to distract from that.

Porteroso said:

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bearassnekkid said:

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The ONLY thing that could justify this kind of hysteria is mortality rate. Nothing else would excuse the self-imposed destruction we are wreaking on our society. So why is NOBODY talking about the fact that we are reporting mortality rate for corona in a completely different way than we track/report mortality rate for influenza?

In the case of corona, we are reporting deaths as a % of confirmed cases. For influenza we report deaths as a % of estimated cases. According to the CDC, so far this flu season we have done approximately 1.1 million flu tests in the U.S., and there have been approximately 265k positive results. They estimate flu deaths to be around 35,000. That is a mortality rate of 13.2% of confirmed cases. Except that's not how we report it.

The CDC estimates approximately 43 Million actual cases of influenza, and reports the death as a percentage of that . . . which makes the mortality rate 0.08%. But here we are reporting corona deaths with completely unknown data, at super high rates, using a totally different metric, and scaring the crap out of everyone and shutting down the entire economy. Why on earth would we do that? And why isn't anyone doing the macro analysis on the actual cost in human suffering of the measures we're taking vs. the cost in human suffering of the virus running its course with more reasonable measures taken that keep the economy intact? Does no one care about all the additional suicides? Or depression? Or chemical dependency? Of divorce rates? Or domestic abuse? Or all the other stress-related illnesses? All we care about is the virus itself? We're listening to virologists, who are only looking at one little piece of the puzzle? It is pure insanity.

---

Bud, the mortality rate for the flu is out there, you don't have to do your own new math. Want me to google it for you? .1%, which is pretty different from what you say, but don't let google stop you. Big Science is trying to suppress you.

---

You have trouble reading? I was giving this year's mortality rate, and, more importantly, how it is tracked/reported. And how that differs from the way we're reporting corona mortality. See ATL's response to you.

bear2be2 said:

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ABC BEAR said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

tommie said:

---

PartyBear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

contrario said:

---

blackie said:

---

Quote:

---

Does that mean I don't care about loss of life? Of course not, I care about human life a lot. But we have never taken such extreme steps to save the lives of so few, especially in high-risk groups. The precedent this sets is terrifying beyond belief and my hope is that it's just because it is an election year and a lot of people hate Trump.

---

So Italy, etc. are doing what they are doing because of Trump? Clueless.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with Trump. If we as a country cannot come together without playing the political game, and many are still doing that, we probably get what we deserve.

I wasn't around then, but I suspect that there were plenty of political enemies of FDR, but when Pearl Harbor occurred the country came together like never before to defeat a common enemy.

Defeat or greatly control the virus, then you can get back to your political ****.

We can't see this enemy. At this point we don't know how to beat it other than to try to stay away from it. Unlike the flu, our population has not been vaccinated against it. As for numbers of whatever, we are in perhaps the second inning and we are projecting the number of runs scored in the entire game to where things stand in the second inning. And we have millions of people out there acting as if nothing is happening while just spreading it around to any and all. And, we are finding out now that thinking it only seriously affects those who are elderly or have underlying conditions is a fallacy.

---

Get back to me when politicians on the left stop politicizing it and spend time worrying about what we call it.

---

You should understand by now that divisiveness and distraction are cornerstone strategies of this administration. The few Dems that waste breath on this word usage are dumb for taking the bait (even if it appears there are more Trumpers talking about it than Dems around here...), but Trump is using it on purpose to generate exactly this kind of discussion. Trump would love to talk about any subject that's not his own incompetence, and above all else he loves for his opponents and supporters to argue over race/immigration issues. If he can get people squabbling over what he calls the virus, that's less breath being spent criticizing his lackluster response.

---

Exactly right. No one here is even talking about the name except Trumpers who are acting like they are somehow some sort of victim over it. Just trying to distract themselves and deflect from the fact Trump is turning into a ***** version of Herbert Hoover.

---

It's messaging. Trump has to make sure his supporters know that it's not his fault. That will not change that it is his responsibility.

His supporters are especially vulnerable because of his delayed action.

---

The adults are focused on solutions. The children are focusing on how to blame someone.

---

.....and thank heaven that Trump and his administration are the adults focusing on solutions.

---

When they're not blaming China, Obama or ripping Europe's response.

The folks on both sides of this stupid debate need to start acting like adults and stop politicizing a pandemic. And that includes our president, who can't get through one freaking press conference without starting/prolonging one childish spat or another.

China's cover-up in the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak is a big deal, without question. And it needs to be dealt with appropriately at the appropriate time. But the top priority now is slowing the spread in our own country. And rants about China, Europe and the press only serve to distract from that.

---

I agree with you 100%. However, this issue follows the usual pattern:
1. Unquestionably this virus was called the "Chinese Coronavirus" or "Wuhan Virus" or somesuch
2. A few woke wingnuts started to lose their mind and call it racism, so the broader Left picked up these Talking Points
3. The Right went, "huh?" and many reacted to the reaction
4. Now, the thread of "why are we worried about the name when millions are dying in the streets?"

Exactly. I agree with you. Why is NYT, CNN, WaPo, etc. spending one second worried about calling it the Chinese or Wuhan anything.

We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

Sam Lowry said:

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We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

---

That link still uses the 35 million for flu infections when there weren't 35 million confirmed cases of flu. Under the metrics they advocate for (IFR), flu would still have a higher death rate by a multiple factor. No one has an assessment of how many actual cases of C-19 are out there, from South Korea to the US. One thing that is being borne out is fortunately it's a comparatively mild virus (mortality) by any standard of measure.

in the immortal words of DR - we have unknown knowns and unknown unknowns.

so - it is prudent to be overtly cautious in the short run - wh/ will warrant some govt support.

I do NOT like the idea of bailing out the airlines who have spent $50B buying back stock - largely in part to meet mgmt bonus / stock option criteria - instead of running leaner Balance Sheets.

we need to demand that those industries govt getting the bailouts issue preferred equity to the govt to be paid back from future earnings - and paying dividends once things stablise..

and in the future need a way to limit buybacks - requiring x percent of FCF to go towards to debt reduction / cash BEFORE any buybacks.

- BUmma

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

---

That link still uses the 35 million for flu infections when there weren't 35 million confirmed cases of flu. Under the metrics they advocate for (IFR), flu would still have a higher death rate by a multiple factor. No one has an assessment of how many actual cases of C-19 are out there, from South Korea to the US. One thing that is being borne out is fortunately it's a comparatively mild virus (mortality) by any standard of measure.

---

I sure hope this is true. Where did you get the information?

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

We are not basing our policy on different metrics for measuring death rates. Approximately 1% is an estimate of the total infection fatality rate, not the diagnosed case fatality rate.

http://theconversation.com/the-coronavirus-looks-less-deadly-than-first-reported-but-its-definitely-not-just-a-flu-133526

---

That link still uses the 35 million for flu infections when there weren't 35 million confirmed cases of flu. Under the metrics they advocate for (IFR), flu would still have a higher death rate by a multiple factor. No one has an assessment of how many actual cases of C-19 are out there, from South Korea to the US. One thing that is being borne out is fortunately it's a comparatively mild virus (mortality) by any standard of measure.

---

I'm not sure that's right. CDC estimates to-date there have been 38 million cases of the flu as well as 390K hospitalizations and 23K deaths. Wouldn't that 38M be the denominator of the IFR? The number of positive tests was much lower. Interestingly, if you look at the CDC site, its data shows 232,654 cases of positive flu tests for A&B with an estimated annual mortality of 23,000. So by CFR, that would put its mortality rate at 10%, which seems really high.