Reopen the Economy???

7,640 Views | 273 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by Bearitto
Forest Bueller
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bear2be2 said:

bearassnekkid said:

bear2be2 said:

Kyle said:

Jack Bauer said:



We went from 3.5% unemployment to 5.5% in one week.
"Ends justifies the means." Any outcome, the progressives win:
1. Blame President Trump
2. Damage the economy, which hurts incumbent
3. Expand Dependency
So the entire world is in cahoots with the Democrats? Most other affected countries are taking more drastic measures than we have/are, doing the exact same damage to their own economies. As much as partisans on both sides want to make it one, this isn't a political issue. It's a global pandemic the likes of which we've never seen in our lifetimes.
Well, actually, the number of cases and deaths would both still need to increase by over 10x their current levels . . . just to equal a pandemic from this year. And last year. And the year before that.

Give it a couple of weeks. This will age about as well as all the "There are only ____ cases/deaths, what's the but deal?" posts that we were setting two weeks ago.

This virus' transmission rate is insane and we're only in the first wave. By the fall, the case number will be staggering.

Unless, as very often happens with a virus, Corona virus mutates into a much less deadly or harmful version of itself, I sure hope that happens.
Aliceinbubbleland
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https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/820595489/why-germanys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-far-lower-than-in-other-countries
bear2be2
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Aliceinbubbleland said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/25/820595489/why-germanys-coronavirus-death-rate-is-far-lower-than-in-other-countries
Testing is a very key component to the containment of this virus -- and one that everyone but South Korea and Germany seems to have failed at.
Canada2017
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I sincerely believe when the US death rate approaches 1000 per day ...we all will have far bigger concerns than Trumps narcissism.

He has the toughest assignment of any US president since FDR.

To save the lives of as many Americans as possible without destroying our economy in the process .

And no matter what happens, people blessed with 20-20 hindsight will criticize Trump that it was not 'enough '.



jupiter
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D. C. Bear
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Canada2017 said:

That certainly would help DC....but I expect the c19 task force will buy a significant number of ventilators from overseas .

Regardless , these machines do not save everyone . Many patients still die anyway .


Yes, but without them many more die.
bear2be2
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Canada2017 said:

I sincerely believe when the US death rate approaches 1000 per day ...we all will have far bigger concerns than Trumps narcissism.

He has the toughest assignment of any US president since FDR.

To save the lives of as many Americans as possible without destroying our economy in the process .

And no matter what happens, people blessed with 20-20 hindsight will criticize Trump that it was not 'enough '.
Perhaps if he had prioritized the truth over his ego/reelection campaign in the two most critical weeks of our containment effort, the damage might have been mitigated. It's too late now, but I don't know how any free-thinking, truth-seeking individual can defend some of the things he has said in front of a microphone about COVID-19 and its effects.
D. C. Bear
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J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

Here in Charleston the beaches are closed except to residents so if you have a beach house you can go to the beach. They did it bc all of the high school and college kids were going to the beach bc of nothing else to do. If you have a boat then you can do whatever the hell you want and there are some beaches that are only accessible by boat to go to. This whole town will be on the water or in their backyard pools tomorrow bc it's going to be 85 and perfect.

I am solidly in the camp of reopening businesses and letting those of us who want to continue on with life to do so. I don't see how i'm any more at risk going to the grocery store or costco than I am going to have a burger at a restaurant. I think quarantine is for the sick and when you do it to healthy people its called tyranny.


Prove to me that you aren't carrying and spreading the virus first.
sorry but I have HIPAA protection so i won't be proving jack sheeeit to you but you are free to sit in your house until you are ready to come outside.


My point isn't you personally but "you" generally. We need to slow the virus down. Continuing normal activities and quarantine for those exhibiting symptoms doesn't work because you can have it and spread it without symptoms. You (and everyone else) is at greater risk sitting close together at a restaurant as opposed to being spread out at the grocery store
You are 100% correct of course .

For those with the ' burn thru philosophy'....

the BBC is reporting that Italy had over 900 C19 related deaths within the last 24 hours .
The "burn through" crowd simply has not done the research on what that philosophy would actually mean.

Boris Johnson, who previously held that view and ironically now has COVID-19, had it done for him. He changed his tune in less than a week.


The latest information here in Colorado are 1734 confirmed cases of Coronavirus

239 people have been hospitalized

31 have died



No way in the world should anyone relax the quarantine restrictions by Easter . I doubt anyone will be that stupid ...but who knows ?

For all this talk about ventilators ......it is unlikely we will be able to build them quick enough . No ones fault . The numbers involved will simply be staggering within the next 3 weeks .

For those who want to point fingers of blame ......it's a fruitless, meaningless, self serving gesture .

Nothing short of closing our borders to all international travel would have stood any chance of succeeding in keeping the virus out .

And with thousands of cases of illegal entry into our country every month ....even such a closure may not have worked .

Stock up while you can friends ........it's only going to get much worse .





We need a more basic ventilator that can be quickly mass produced.
not possible



Nothing is possible until someone does it.
really, let me know your expertise in manufacturing? what do you do?


I read.
https://theface.com/life/oxvent-prototype-ventilator-health-nhs-covid-19
Canada2017
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Give a balanced report card .

If you want to bash him for what he said ...you need to also give Trump credit for what he did in January .

The Chinese travel closure was huge
J.R.
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bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

I sincerely believe when the US death rate approaches 1000 per day ...we all will have far bigger concerns than Trumps narcissism.

He has the toughest assignment of any US president since FDR.

To save the lives of as many Americans as possible without destroying our economy in the process .

And no matter what happens, people blessed with 20-20 hindsight will criticize Trump that it was not 'enough '.
Perhaps if he had prioritized the truth over his ego/reelection campaign in the two most critical weeks of our containment effort, the damage might have been mitigated. It's too late now, but I don't know how any free-thinking, truth-seeking individual can defend some of the things he has said in front of a microphone about COVID-19 and its effects.
seriously
J.R.
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D. C. Bear said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

Here in Charleston the beaches are closed except to residents so if you have a beach house you can go to the beach. They did it bc all of the high school and college kids were going to the beach bc of nothing else to do. If you have a boat then you can do whatever the hell you want and there are some beaches that are only accessible by boat to go to. This whole town will be on the water or in their backyard pools tomorrow bc it's going to be 85 and perfect.

I am solidly in the camp of reopening businesses and letting those of us who want to continue on with life to do so. I don't see how i'm any more at risk going to the grocery store or costco than I am going to have a burger at a restaurant. I think quarantine is for the sick and when you do it to healthy people its called tyranny.


Prove to me that you aren't carrying and spreading the virus first.
sorry but I have HIPAA protection so i won't be proving jack sheeeit to you but you are free to sit in your house until you are ready to come outside.


My point isn't you personally but "you" generally. We need to slow the virus down. Continuing normal activities and quarantine for those exhibiting symptoms doesn't work because you can have it and spread it without symptoms. You (and everyone else) is at greater risk sitting close together at a restaurant as opposed to being spread out at the grocery store
You are 100% correct of course .

For those with the ' burn thru philosophy'....

the BBC is reporting that Italy had over 900 C19 related deaths within the last 24 hours .
The "burn through" crowd simply has not done the research on what that philosophy would actually mean.

Boris Johnson, who previously held that view and ironically now has COVID-19, had it done for him. He changed his tune in less than a week.


The latest information here in Colorado are 1734 confirmed cases of Coronavirus

239 people have been hospitalized

31 have died



No way in the world should anyone relax the quarantine restrictions by Easter . I doubt anyone will be that stupid ...but who knows ?

For all this talk about ventilators ......it is unlikely we will be able to build them quick enough . No ones fault . The numbers involved will simply be staggering within the next 3 weeks .

For those who want to point fingers of blame ......it's a fruitless, meaningless, self serving gesture .

Nothing short of closing our borders to all international travel would have stood any chance of succeeding in keeping the virus out .

And with thousands of cases of illegal entry into our country every month ....even such a closure may not have worked .

Stock up while you can friends ........it's only going to get much worse .





We need a more basic ventilator that can be quickly mass produced.
not possible



Nothing is possible until someone does it.
really, let me know your expertise in manufacturing? what do you do?


I read.
https://theface.com/life/oxvent-prototype-ventilator-health-nhs-covid-19

that wasn't my question. Please answer
D. C. Bear
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J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

Here in Charleston the beaches are closed except to residents so if you have a beach house you can go to the beach. They did it bc all of the high school and college kids were going to the beach bc of nothing else to do. If you have a boat then you can do whatever the hell you want and there are some beaches that are only accessible by boat to go to. This whole town will be on the water or in their backyard pools tomorrow bc it's going to be 85 and perfect.

I am solidly in the camp of reopening businesses and letting those of us who want to continue on with life to do so. I don't see how i'm any more at risk going to the grocery store or costco than I am going to have a burger at a restaurant. I think quarantine is for the sick and when you do it to healthy people its called tyranny.


Prove to me that you aren't carrying and spreading the virus first.
sorry but I have HIPAA protection so i won't be proving jack sheeeit to you but you are free to sit in your house until you are ready to come outside.


My point isn't you personally but "you" generally. We need to slow the virus down. Continuing normal activities and quarantine for those exhibiting symptoms doesn't work because you can have it and spread it without symptoms. You (and everyone else) is at greater risk sitting close together at a restaurant as opposed to being spread out at the grocery store
You are 100% correct of course .

For those with the ' burn thru philosophy'....

the BBC is reporting that Italy had over 900 C19 related deaths within the last 24 hours .
The "burn through" crowd simply has not done the research on what that philosophy would actually mean.

Boris Johnson, who previously held that view and ironically now has COVID-19, had it done for him. He changed his tune in less than a week.


The latest information here in Colorado are 1734 confirmed cases of Coronavirus

239 people have been hospitalized

31 have died



No way in the world should anyone relax the quarantine restrictions by Easter . I doubt anyone will be that stupid ...but who knows ?

For all this talk about ventilators ......it is unlikely we will be able to build them quick enough . No ones fault . The numbers involved will simply be staggering within the next 3 weeks .

For those who want to point fingers of blame ......it's a fruitless, meaningless, self serving gesture .

Nothing short of closing our borders to all international travel would have stood any chance of succeeding in keeping the virus out .

And with thousands of cases of illegal entry into our country every month ....even such a closure may not have worked .

Stock up while you can friends ........it's only going to get much worse .





We need a more basic ventilator that can be quickly mass produced.
not possible



Nothing is possible until someone does it.
really, let me know your expertise in manufacturing? what do you do?


I read.
https://theface.com/life/oxvent-prototype-ventilator-health-nhs-covid-19

that wasn't my question. Please answer


I don't have, nor need, manufacturing "expertise" to know that a simple, easily and quickly built ventilator that does the job is needed. The article I linked provides an example of one such device that can be build easily and quickly. It isn't a sophisticated device. If the device works, and there is no reason to believe it would not, it could provide the bridge needed for many patients.
Oldbear83
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J.R. said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

Here in Charleston the beaches are closed except to residents so if you have a beach house you can go to the beach. They did it bc all of the high school and college kids were going to the beach bc of nothing else to do. If you have a boat then you can do whatever the hell you want and there are some beaches that are only accessible by boat to go to. This whole town will be on the water or in their backyard pools tomorrow bc it's going to be 85 and perfect.

I am solidly in the camp of reopening businesses and letting those of us who want to continue on with life to do so. I don't see how i'm any more at risk going to the grocery store or costco than I am going to have a burger at a restaurant. I think quarantine is for the sick and when you do it to healthy people its called tyranny.


Prove to me that you aren't carrying and spreading the virus first.
sorry but I have HIPAA protection so i won't be proving jack sheeeit to you but you are free to sit in your house until you are ready to come outside.


My point isn't you personally but "you" generally. We need to slow the virus down. Continuing normal activities and quarantine for those exhibiting symptoms doesn't work because you can have it and spread it without symptoms. You (and everyone else) is at greater risk sitting close together at a restaurant as opposed to being spread out at the grocery store
You are 100% correct of course .

For those with the ' burn thru philosophy'....

the BBC is reporting that Italy had over 900 C19 related deaths within the last 24 hours .
The "burn through" crowd simply has not done the research on what that philosophy would actually mean.

Boris Johnson, who previously held that view and ironically now has COVID-19, had it done for him. He changed his tune in less than a week.


The latest information here in Colorado are 1734 confirmed cases of Coronavirus

239 people have been hospitalized

31 have died



No way in the world should anyone relax the quarantine restrictions by Easter . I doubt anyone will be that stupid ...but who knows ?

For all this talk about ventilators ......it is unlikely we will be able to build them quick enough . No ones fault . The numbers involved will simply be staggering within the next 3 weeks .

For those who want to point fingers of blame ......it's a fruitless, meaningless, self serving gesture .

Nothing short of closing our borders to all international travel would have stood any chance of succeeding in keeping the virus out .

And with thousands of cases of illegal entry into our country every month ....even such a closure may not have worked .

Stock up while you can friends ........it's only going to get much worse .





We need a more basic ventilator that can be quickly mass produced.
not possible

possible.

https://e-vent.mit.edu/
no, that tells me nothing...
It tells an honest person that we have feasible options. A malicious person will ignore that fact.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
jupiter
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contrario
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PartyBear said:

contrario said:

bear2be2 said:

Waco1947 said:

bear2be2 said:

riflebear said:

Waco1947 said:

45 is willing to sacrifice the most vulnerable citizens on behalf of Wall Street. Shame on him. He has, at, no decency
You do realize Gov Cuomo and many other Dems are saying the same thing as Trump.


Those may not be our desires, but they are the likeliest outcomes. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Like it or not, you can prioritize the nation's health or its economy. You can't choose both and selecting one jeopardizes the other. Sadly, it really is that simple.
You are begging the question "How can 45 'open the economy?'"
I'm not responding to your OP, so 'opening the economy' is irrelevant to my post. I'm responding to the posted Tweet that pushes back against the notion that we're choosing the economy or old people. Unfortunately, that's exactly what we're doing in this lose-lose situation. If you choose to prioritize the economy, you are jeopardizing the health of our most vulnerable citizens. If you choose health, which I view as the only choice, you all but guarantee a recession. There's no good outcome here, but I can't in good conscience choose money over life.
Every day we keep US roadways open we are choosing money over life. We are saying the 90 people that will die today on US roadways don't matter. Every year 20K - 80K Americans die from the flu, but we haven't shut down the economy before. Were we saying the lives of those 20K-80K didn't matter? I'm not really sure how you can draw a line in the sand this time, but I've never seen you say we should shut down all roads to save thousands of lives per year. I don't remember you saying we need to shut down the world economy for previous flu seasons. Why now? Why is life so important to you now, but it wasn't before?


I see you still think or want to argue this is just the flu season we have every year. But what you really don't like is free markets here. Adam Smith's invisible hand was taking action and everything was shutting down prior to any public service announcement of 15 days of social distancing on March 13 late afternoon. Again no one told businesses to shut down, no one told universities including Baylor to close. No one told the NBA to stop or cancel the season, no one told the NCAA to cancel everything in college sports, including the lucrative basketball tournament, locally no one told Magnolia to close shop. These were all done in reaction to mishandling the virus and its spread prior to March 13th. State and local govts have taken action since and still are and still will despite the WH saying open up. But make no mistake most of what is happening now economically is actually being done by Adam Smith's invisible hand. The US economy shut itself down. This thing was so mishandled by the administration and still is, the Governors and local leaders need ventilators for example, that it has completely lost control literally over it and responses to it.
It doesn't matter what I think. I'm just a moron with a keyboard. But even this moron can see that everyone is freaking out about a few hundred thousand cases of COVID-19, but didn't bat an an eye when 1.5 billion (with a B) had the swine flu in 2009 and about 500K people died from the swine flu. We didn't shut down the entire world, we didn't spend trillions of dollars in stimulus. We didn't do any of that. I'm not smart enough to figure out what the difference between 2009 and 2020 is, but I can say with complete certainty that the number of infections from COVID-19 will be less than the swine flu and the number of deaths will much less. Again, I'm not smart enough to figure out why the world lost its fcking mind this time around, but I do know we didn't lose our sht like this in 2009 for a much worse virus.
blackie
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Quote:

We didn't do any of that. I'm not smart enough to figure out what the difference between 2009 and 2020 is, but I can say with complete certainty that the number of infections from COVID-19 will be less than the swine flu and the number of deaths will much less. Again, I'm not smart enough to figure out why the world lost its fcking mind this time around, but I do know we didn't lose our sht like this in 2009 for a much worse virus.
Number of infections and deaths will be much less than they could be because of the actions taken (social distancing). No one will ever be able to say when this is over, what it would have been if such actions had not been taken. As such, no comparisons can be made between this and recent past epidemics. Oh, I'm sure many will be made, but they will not have any validity because the control factors are completely different.
Waco1947
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Oldbear83 said:

The mistake in that answer is thinking that 'X' is the only option to "take the virus seriously".

We have options.

Personally, these are things I would like to see, in no order of importance:

1. Stop calling it "social distancing". It's not a trend, it's a public safety measure, and it sounds vague and casual, according to my daughter. Let's call it "virus distance" or "safety space". And yeah, I do think it matters;

2. Anyone who had any part in ordering businesses to close should not collect pay while such an order is in effect. Yeah, I agree a lot of that is necessary, but I am sick of seeing rich people issue orders that destroy innocent people while they personally see not even a moment of pain.

3. Limit business closing as much as possible. Just as it makes sense to let restaurants stay open to serve 'to go' and just close inside dining areas, don't close businesses which see less than 50 people a day, and maybe pay more attention to closing businesses which are not really essential, like liquor stores or vanity TV shows like "ET". Put some thought in those orders.

4. Media should not repeat the same thing every hour all day but call it "breaking news". Save that tag for news that really is just released.

5. Don't treat ABC or CNN or Fox as authorities on medical information. Dr. Oz, for example,is the same idiot who recently claimed you should drink apple juice because it would poison you. If we're going to make a big deal about medical advice, let's direct folks to the CDC or NIH or online medical journals.

6. Stop accusing people who are staying home and washing their hands and all that, of "not taking it seriously". You don't have a clue what is going on with someone else, and being an ass only raises everyone's stress level.


Mostly good stuff
Waco1947
jupiter
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HashTag
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Oldbear83 said:

J.R. said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.R. said:

D. C. Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

bear2be2 said:

Canada2017 said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

D. C. Bear said:

muddybrazos said:

Here in Charleston the beaches are closed except to residents so if you have a beach house you can go to the beach. They did it bc all of the high school and college kids were going to the beach bc of nothing else to do. If you have a boat then you can do whatever the hell you want and there are some beaches that are only accessible by boat to go to. This whole town will be on the water or in their backyard pools tomorrow bc it's going to be 85 and perfect.

I am solidly in the camp of reopening businesses and letting those of us who want to continue on with life to do so. I don't see how i'm any more at risk going to the grocery store or costco than I am going to have a burger at a restaurant. I think quarantine is for the sick and when you do it to healthy people its called tyranny.


Prove to me that you aren't carrying and spreading the virus first.
sorry but I have HIPAA protection so i won't be proving jack sheeeit to you but you are free to sit in your house until you are ready to come outside.


My point isn't you personally but "you" generally. We need to slow the virus down. Continuing normal activities and quarantine for those exhibiting symptoms doesn't work because you can have it and spread it without symptoms. You (and everyone else) is at greater risk sitting close together at a restaurant as opposed to being spread out at the grocery store
You are 100% correct of course .

For those with the ' burn thru philosophy'....

the BBC is reporting that Italy had over 900 C19 related deaths within the last 24 hours .
The "burn through" crowd simply has not done the research on what that philosophy would actually mean.

Boris Johnson, who previously held that view and ironically now has COVID-19, had it done for him. He changed his tune in less than a week.


The latest information here in Colorado are 1734 confirmed cases of Coronavirus

239 people have been hospitalized

31 have died



No way in the world should anyone relax the quarantine restrictions by Easter . I doubt anyone will be that stupid ...but who knows ?

For all this talk about ventilators ......it is unlikely we will be able to build them quick enough . No ones fault . The numbers involved will simply be staggering within the next 3 weeks .

For those who want to point fingers of blame ......it's a fruitless, meaningless, self serving gesture .

Nothing short of closing our borders to all international travel would have stood any chance of succeeding in keeping the virus out .

And with thousands of cases of illegal entry into our country every month ....even such a closure may not have worked .

Stock up while you can friends ........it's only going to get much worse .





We need a more basic ventilator that can be quickly mass produced.
not possible

possible.

https://e-vent.mit.edu/
no, that tells me nothing...
It tells an honest person that we have feasible options. A malicious person will ignore that fact.
Bbbbut, but, bbut.... I though JR only dealt in facts and data
bear2be2
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blackie said:

Quote:

We didn't do any of that. I'm not smart enough to figure out what the difference between 2009 and 2020 is, but I can say with complete certainty that the number of infections from COVID-19 will be less than the swine flu and the number of deaths will much less. Again, I'm not smart enough to figure out why the world lost its fcking mind this time around, but I do know we didn't lose our sht like this in 2009 for a much worse virus.
Number of infections and deaths will be much less than they could be because of the actions taken (social distancing). No one will ever be able to say when this is over, what it would have been if such actions had not been taken. As such, no comparisons can be made between this and recent past epidemics. Oh, I'm sure many will be made, but they will not have any validity because the control factors are completely different.
Exactly. This common sense point seems to be flying over the heads of many.

People keep saying, "We didn't do this with the swine flu, which infected/killed far more than COVID-19" as though there's no correlation between the responses and infection/death counts.

Perhaps if we had had a similar response to more deadly outbreaks in the past, they wouldn't have been as deadly. In fact, I don't think there's any perhaps about it. This response worldwide is saving millions of lives, and we're still nearing 100,000 new cases a day.
bear2be2
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jupiter said:


Bearitto
Waco1947
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WSJ " In the first meeting of President Trump's task force to reopen the economy, banking and financial services executives said the administration needed to dramatically increase the availability of coronavirus testing before the public would be confident enough to return to work, eat at restaurants or shop in retail establishments, according to people familiar with the call." Michael Bender
Waco1947
Waco1947
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Waco1947 said:

What does that mean? Business will reopen when it's safe - Capitalism at work

It's not 45's decisions
Waco1947
Flaming Moderate
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Waco1947 said:

WSJ " In the first meeting of President Trump's task force to reopen the economy, banking and financial services executives said the administration needed to dramatically increase the availability of coronavirus testing before the public would be confident enough to return to work, eat at restaurants or shop in retail establishments, according to people familiar with the call." Michael Bender
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?
tommie
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Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
Flaming Moderate
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tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?
ATL Bear
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tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
I admittedly have a hard time watching Trump at the briefings due to his erratic nature, but today was his best one. And they did lay out a strategy for reopening the economy and gave governors the authority to execute according to their specific situations. It felt like real leadership and direction.
tommie
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Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
Flaming Moderate
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tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?
tommie
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Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?


You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?
william
How long do you want to ignore this user?
let's get hard*.

- BUmma

* gradually.

#MAEA

#Retumesce
Flaming Moderate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?


You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?
Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.
tommie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?


You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?
Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.


What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).
contrario
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?


You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?
Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.


What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).
The solution actually a lot less extreme than that...
Flaming Moderate
How long do you want to ignore this user?
tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Flaming Moderate said:

tommie said:

Good starting point for reopening at today's press conference. I say starting point because new data points will become known in the future.

Focused press conference. To the point. Presidential.
So how do you answer for:
- Women and children trapped at home facing increased domestic violence or sexual abuse?
- Children falling behind wealthier peers at school because their homes are not conducive to online learning?
- Single mothers and father trying to hold onto a work from home job and teach their kids?
- People suffering because they cannot get needed surgery?
- The poor and middle classes who will lose their homes, savings, and ability to feed their families?


I don't have an answer for all the worlds problems.

You're asking public policy questions that are an issue EVEN without a pandemic.
That's a deflection with all due respect, and you know it. This is not all the world's problems but problems caused by the shutdown.

That is like saying because there is gun-related crime we should not do anything to mitigate school shootings. '

The shutdown directly causes or significantly exacerbates these problems, so how do you account for the least of these suffering much more under the shutdown?

If you support continuing the shutdown, then you owe the people you're hurting an answer, so what is yours?


You want us to believe that kids and women are abused now bout weren't before the shutdown?

That families before the shutdown weren't struggling to pay bills but are now? That poor kids weren't falling behind in the classroom but now they are?

Can I move into your neighborhood?
Yes. The Tarrant County Sheriff was on the radio this morning and said domestic violence calls were significantly up since the shutdown. Not sure how familiar you are with abused children and women, but for many work and school is a sanctuary where they can find needed support, comfort, and escape. I know many teachers in tears daily because for a few of their students, school was the only safe place in their lives away from abusive parents, neighborhood thugs, and corrupt cops.

Do you think it is more difficult to pay bills without a job? For the 20M people that have lost their jobs since the shutdown, do you think that is easier or more difficult to pay bills? The layoffs are disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, but no one really cares about them it seems.

Again, for many poor kids, home life is not optimal. We take for granted we have irenic homes an Internet access. For many smart, poor kids, their homes are just not conducive for online learning. Where at once they stayed after school studying in the library or learned in class, now they may not even be able to access online learning or certainly lack the environment for learning.

I would love to take you around some of these neighborhoods. You would be surprised at what we take for granted. I had a former "little brother" who was very smart both book and common sense, but his mom did not provide a stable home environment. They moved frequently depending on boyfriends and bill collectors. Shean was one of those kids on the bubble - this would have popped any chance for him to go to college.

Think about all those kids that needed one great semester to earn a scholarship for athletics or academics. All "poof." I just have a lot of sympathy for the least of these being irrefutably harmed by the shutdown. We're all blessed and guilty of living in a bubble and not really thinking about how our silly online banter affects real people.


What's your solution? The death of the woman? Orphaning the kids?

FTR, I give every year to a woman shelter because I know abuse is real. (I've never experienced it).
I want a complete, holistic, thoughtful solution that rejects binary thinking (especially that inspired by political bigotry) and considering the impact of this shutdown on everyone, especially the least of these. Given the options available, I would support re-opening where possible to reduce the risk of the scenarios above. I'm surprised you would disagree. You definitely seem to be on the "pro close" side yet you support the continued operation of public transportation, which likely spreads the virus more than just about anything. While I disagree with you and find it inconsistent, I understand your point: some people rely on it. That's True. People also rely on jobs, schools, health care ... don't get why you're so flippant in wanting to take that away.
 
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