Cruise Industry Getting Nothing

856 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by Canada2017
tommie
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They aren't American companies. Good.
Jack and DP
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They had a sinking feeling this might happen.
Jack and DP
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But wouldn't you think that if anyone needed a bailout it would be a company with ships.
PartyBear
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Disney is and they run Cruises. I dont know they need a bailout however. But I do agree with your general sentiment that the cruise companies should not get one.
Forest Bueller_bf
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Everybody needs a bailout.

I am watching TV right now, Cuomo said NY is getting 3.6 billion and need 15 billion.

So everybody needs a much bigger bailout than they are getting.

Unfortunately it's not a possibility, there is only so much money.
Flaming Moderate
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I support this.
EatMoreSalmon
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Tom must be feeling left out.
jimdue
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tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American. A lot of us on the right and left of the political spectrum do not like corporate bail outs. In general, it makes me want to puke. In a perfect world, this stimulus money would be only be bridge loans to what were otherwise solvent companies/industries that will not survive this work stoppage without it.

Bottom line, you can like big business or hate big business but it does not change the fact that most of Americans 401k/retirements are invested in them and/or depends on them for employment.
Jack Bauer
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For every "evil and greedy" company/CEO, there are thousands of honest employees just trying to do their job.
Flaming Moderate
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I see a difference between legitimate corporate structures vs. those "American" companies that fly under another nation's flag only to avoid taxes. Part of being in a nation / community is paying a share. I get many find ways to avoid paying taxes, but to me that's different than just pretending to not be an American company.
tommie
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jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American. A lot of us on the right and left of the political spectrum do not like corporate bail outs. In general, it makes me want to puke. In a perfect world, this stimulus money would be only be bridge loans to what were otherwise solvent companies/industries that will not survive this work stoppage without it.

Bottom line, you can like big business or hate big business but it does not change the fact that most of Americans 401k/retirements are invested in them and/or depends on them for employment.


Their employees are taken care of with the increase in unemployment insurance. The Cruise industry can use Chapter 11. They made a business decision to avoid US taxation. (We know they're American).
jimdue
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tommie said:

jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American. A lot of us on the right and left of the political spectrum do not like corporate bail outs. In general, it makes me want to puke. In a perfect world, this stimulus money would be only be bridge loans to what were otherwise solvent companies/industries that will not survive this work stoppage without it.

Bottom line, you can like big business or hate big business but it does not change the fact that most of Americans 401k/retirements are invested in them and/or depends on them for employment.


Their employees are taken care of with the increase in unemployment insurance. The Cruise industry can use Chapter 11. They made a business decision to avoid US taxation. (We know they're American).
Do you really think unemployment insurance is the equivalent of a job? Really?? Unemployment insurance is a short term safety net for folks to get back on their feet again and reenter the work force. When entire sectors or numerous large employers do not exist anymore, unemployment insurance becomes a way of life. And I guess that is the difference between the right and left on this argument. The right wants stimulus dollars to keep employers and employees solvent for a short amount of time during a once in a life time event. The left looks at this as an opportunity to have more registered voters dependent on government checks on a long term basis.
PartyBear
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The flip side of your argument is that you are also arguing companies are going to take the bailout money and close leaving the workers with nothing but unemployment for a long term.
tommie
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jimdue said:

tommie said:

jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American. A lot of us on the right and left of the political spectrum do not like corporate bail outs. In general, it makes me want to puke. In a perfect world, this stimulus money would be only be bridge loans to what were otherwise solvent companies/industries that will not survive this work stoppage without it.

Bottom line, you can like big business or hate big business but it does not change the fact that most of Americans 401k/retirements are invested in them and/or depends on them for employment.


Their employees are taken care of with the increase in unemployment insurance. The Cruise industry can use Chapter 11. They made a business decision to avoid US taxation. (We know they're American).
Do you really think unemployment insurance is the equivalent of a job? Really?? Unemployment insurance is a short term safety net for folks to get back on their feet again and reenter the work force. When entire sectors or numerous large employers do not exist anymore, unemployment insurance becomes a way of life. And I guess that is the difference between the right and left on this argument. The right wants stimulus dollars to keep employers and employees solvent for a short amount of time during a once in a life time event. The left looks at this as an opportunity to have more registered voters dependent on government checks on a long term basis.


It's not nor am I claiming that their options are bailout or out of business. I'm arguing that they are not an American company.

A question I didn't ask is about their viability. Even with a bailout, will people take cruises at the rate required to be profitable?
Canada2017
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

Everybody needs a bailout.

I am watching TV right now, Cuomo said NY is getting 3.6 billion and need 15 billion.

So everybody needs a much bigger bailout than they are getting.

Unfortunately it's not a possibility, there is only so much money.


Cuomo is building up for a run to the White House .

He is totally eclipsing Biden with all of his ( New York first, last and only ) bellyaching.

Very clever .
Forest Bueller_bf
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Canada2017 said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Everybody needs a bailout.

I am watching TV right now, Cuomo said NY is getting 3.6 billion and need 15 billion.

So everybody needs a much bigger bailout than they are getting.

Unfortunately it's not a possibility, there is only so much money.


Cuomo is building up for a run to the White House .

He is totally eclipsing Biden with all of his ( New York first, last and only ) bellyaching.

Very clever .
Very clever. He is much better than Biden. Just the fact he is mentally solid and is a compelling speaker.
PartyBear
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It seems like many of y'all are not familiar with the process for how one becomes POTUS. Secondly some of y'all are not aware apparently of the situation in NY which is unfornately probably going to be the situation for much of the rest of the country within a couple of weeks.
Flaming Moderate
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tommie said:

jimdue said:

tommie said:

jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American. A lot of us on the right and left of the political spectrum do not like corporate bail outs. In general, it makes me want to puke. In a perfect world, this stimulus money would be only be bridge loans to what were otherwise solvent companies/industries that will not survive this work stoppage without it.

Bottom line, you can like big business or hate big business but it does not change the fact that most of Americans 401k/retirements are invested in them and/or depends on them for employment.


Their employees are taken care of with the increase in unemployment insurance. The Cruise industry can use Chapter 11. They made a business decision to avoid US taxation. (We know they're American).
Do you really think unemployment insurance is the equivalent of a job? Really?? Unemployment insurance is a short term safety net for folks to get back on their feet again and reenter the work force. When entire sectors or numerous large employers do not exist anymore, unemployment insurance becomes a way of life. And I guess that is the difference between the right and left on this argument. The right wants stimulus dollars to keep employers and employees solvent for a short amount of time during a once in a life time event. The left looks at this as an opportunity to have more registered voters dependent on government checks on a long term basis.


It's not nor am I claiming that their options are bailout or out of business. I'm arguing that they are not an American company.

A question I didn't ask is about their viability. Even with a bailout, will people take cruises at the rate required to be profitable?
This. I get there is a continuum, but these companies specifically chose not to be American companies, so why should they receive benefits from being an American company.

I do not support privatizing the upside and publicizing (? sounds weird) the downside.
BaylorOkie
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Canada2017 said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

Everybody needs a bailout.

I am watching TV right now, Cuomo said NY is getting 3.6 billion and need 15 billion.

So everybody needs a much bigger bailout than they are getting.

Unfortunately it's not a possibility, there is only so much money.


Cuomo is building up for a run to the White House .


And, if so, the journey has included a lot of him and Trump patting each other on the back. This would be very interesting later this year.
tommie
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This reminds me of the woman who dumps you because she wants to be with that hard ass *****. Now three of 4 beatings later, constant unemployment a new baby momma and herpes, wants to know you doing?

I'm straight.
Canada2017
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tommie said:

This reminds me of the woman who dumps you because she wants to be with that hard ass *****. Now three of 4 beatings later, constant unemployment a new baby momma and herpes, wants to know you doing?

I'm straight.


It's cheaper....to keep her .
nein51
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jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American.
This is not factually accurate. A very small % of the cruise industry are American workers.

Very, very few of the ship captains are American. Staff tend to be English speaking but mostly from the UK or Australia. The rest of the crew, which make up probably 90% of the people on board who arent passengers are typically from places like India, Thailand, Sri Lanka...virtually all the second world countries.

Those cruise ships fly flags of convenience to escape not just taxes but US regulations (which are far more costly than the taxes ever would be). Safety standards in the US are orders of magnitude greater than they are in, say, Liberia (where a WHOLE BUNCH of ships are registered). Their ability to hire workers for less than adequate pay, the make up of the crew...the ability to perform wedding at sea, all effected by which flag they fly.

I love a good cruise; you cant find better value for dollar, but they deserved exactly $0.00 of bailout money.
william
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never understood the allure. not sure how they survive this. likely many BK's.





Oldbear83
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It's been all downhill since Merrill Stubing was gone.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
BornAgain
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whatever happened to lotto money? cant the States use that money for a month or two?
nein51
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william said:

never understood the allure. not sure how they survive this. likely many BK's.


The allure is that it's incredibly reasonable and you get to see parts of the world most people otherwise wouldn't.

They have survived worse. The customers will come back, lured by low prices, ourselves included im sure.

For kicks and giggles go look at the cost of some of those ships like the Royal "of the Seas" ships. Holllllllly crap those things cost a mint.
william
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cancel all boats.

get off ship now sairror.

cancel the boats.

- BUmma
Canada2017
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nein51 said:

jimdue said:

tommie said:

They aren't American companies. Good.
I get what you are saying to a degree. But do not forget that a lot of their employees are American.
This is not factually accurate. A very small % of the cruise industry are American workers.

Very, very few of the ship captains are American. Staff tend to be English speaking but mostly from the UK or Australia. The rest of the crew, which make up probably 90% of the people on board who arent passengers are typically from places like India, Thailand, Sri Lanka...virtually all the second world countries.

Those cruise ships fly flags of convenience to escape not just taxes but US regulations (which are far more costly than the taxes ever would be). Safety standards in the US are orders of magnitude greater than they are in, say, Liberia (where a WHOLE BUNCH of ships are registered). Their ability to hire workers for less than adequate pay, the make up of the crew...the ability to perform wedding at sea, all effected by which flag they fly.

I love a good cruise; you cant find better value for dollar, but they deserved exactly $0.00 of bailout money.


Wife and I have been on approximately 12 cruises .

Never once has the crew been even 30% American . Usually either Asian or East European .

Agree with Tommie...no to bail out money .



nein51
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It's typically way lower than that. I think typically it is like low single digits and that's on cruises from American port cities. They are almost non existent on euro cruises.

They definitely don't deserve bail out money. They will literally do whatever is necessary to avoid US taxation and regulation.
Aliceinbubbleland
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Canada2017 said:



Wife and I have been on approximately 12 cruises .

Never once has the crew been even 30% American . Usually either Asian or East European .

Agree with Tommie...no to bail out money .




I can't imagine going once, let alone 12 cruises. Give me some highlights and lowlights and maybe I'll be interested. I thought the Alaskan ones might be fun but I've read the most popular advertised along the Rhine amounts to a trip down the Houston Ship Channel.
william
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nein51 said:

william said:

never understood the allure. not sure how they survive this. likely many BK's.


The allure is that it's incredibly reasonable and you get to see parts of the world most people otherwise wouldn't.

They have survived worse. The customers will come back, lured by low prices, ourselves included im sure.

For kicks and giggles go look at the cost of some of those ships like the Royal "of the Seas" ships. Holllllllly crap those things cost a mint.
I did when I read the article abt that boat recently stranded. Was like $44k for a month / 5 weeks at sea.

- KKM

anyway - happy sailing.



nein51
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Lol sorry. I meant the cost of the actual ship. Harmony of the Seas cost 1.35 Billion to construct.
Aliceinbubbleland
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After 9/11 I always thought cruise ships were an easy terrorist target. Imagine getting a shot off at a vessel with 6k souls on board.
william
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nein51 said:

Lol sorry. I meant the cost of the actual ship. Harmony of the Seas cost 1.35 Billion to construct.
6780 capacity * 12 trips a year = 81360 / year.

1.35B / 81360= $16,592.

And I would guess those boats last a while.

And the crew are mostly pygmy rapists / disease vectors from 3rd world countries....

- KKM
nein51
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They do last a while. They require insane amounts of maintenance. And they make far more than 12 trips per year. They sail pretty much year round.
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