So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
Ventilators
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Last: 4 yr ago by GrowlTowel
J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
I'm in the same business. You are on point. I'd have actually thought the retrofit would take twice the time especially for something as precession as a ventilator.
Looks like the Fed is footing the retrofit bill. Seems to me, there are better suited existing manufactures.
I'm glad someone is making the machines and the government has stepped up, I just bet there's a $100M discrete manufacturer better suited.
Of course GM, who took a big bailout a few years ago, says "I can't".
Time to let them die. Honda or Toyota could turn out a ventilator quickly. Ford says they'll have them in June.
Time to let them die. Honda or Toyota could turn out a ventilator quickly. Ford says they'll have them in June.
Well, if this thing lasts for months and then returns in the fall, which many predict it will, 2-4 weeks still gives them plenty of time to be ready to combat later outbreaks, and we will no longer have a shortage of ventilators.
Maybe then we won't have to hear Cuomo every day.
Maybe then we won't have to hear Cuomo every day.
J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
Thanks. Very helpful.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Jack and DP said:
Of course GM, who took a big bailout a few years ago, says "I can't".
Time to let them die. Honda or Toyota could turn out a ventilator quickly. Ford says they'll have them in June.
The issue isn't that they can't. If you needed them by 2024, they'd get it done. Companies this big take 2 years of APQP and we need that plant up in three weeks including layout, machinery and raw materials on site. I'll assume Ventec has existing supplier relationships.
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
No, they can'tJack and DP said:
Of course GM, who took a big bailout a few years ago, says "I can't".
Time to let them die. Honda or Toyota could turn out a ventilator quickly. Ford says they'll have them in June.
I'm fairly sure Ventec doesn't build, they just design. CMs build, I'd guess. Abbott makes them also and I know they don't build anything themselves and haven't for a long time.tommie said:Jack and DP said:
Of course GM, who took a big bailout a few years ago, says "I can't".
Time to let them die. Honda or Toyota could turn out a ventilator quickly. Ford says they'll have them in June.
The issue isn't that they can't. If you needed them by 2024, they'd get it done. Companies this big take 2 years of APQP and we need that plant up in three weeks including layout, machinery and raw materials on site. I'll assume Ventec has existing supplier relationships.
It's really simple.....If you don't have the parts (700 parts on the BOM), you can't build.Jack and DP said:
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
Jack and DP said:
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
I'd assume the ER will say they can't open and stock a grocery store by April 13.
I know GM is a manufacturer. They're not this kind of manufacturer.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. GM isn't the answer. The machines need to be built , but GM makes no sense for several reasonsJack and DP said:
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
1)They build cars, not electronics. The electronics in cars come from suppliers that build them. GM plugs and plays.....that is how manufacturing works these days. Mostly final assembly.
2)There is plenty of manufacturing capacity in the world today given the last 2 weeks. Most of the CMs can turn a whole lot faster than freaking GM.
I could care less about GMs future.
I'll yield to your expertise. Hope a manufacturer will step up.
Jack and DP said:
I'll yield to your expertise. Hope a manufacturer will step up.
GM will do it. Just not in 4 weeks.
Suspect more will be imported from other countries than whatever number GM builds .
They have the resources to do it, but it will be a slog and a monthtommie said:Jack and DP said:
I'll yield to your expertise. Hope a manufacturer will step up.
GM will do it. Just not in 4 weeks.
yes, most sophisticated and high through put manufacturing is in Asia, but most US owned. These are the people who need to turn on the product and produce it. Much more efficient than you US car factoriesCanada2017 said:
Suspect more will be imported from other countries than whatever number GM builds .
J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
Many Democrats were getting on Trump to initiate the Defensive Production Act and now that he has people are complaining about doing it. Again, doesn't matter what he does people will complain and take the opposite side.
I think there is some room for that, however, GM and Ford are not the answer....He's doing that because of politics and talking out his arse with no facts, nor data. I don't care about politics, I care about people dying. Plenty of capacity with much more closely skilled workers need to that type of assembly than car plants. Many of these factories are not in the US because of costs. I would have zero issues having product made in Asia, India and Mexico because that is where the expertise resides. I would make sure that they are all American owned. Trump is once again bloviating about something he know nothing about , which are most things.riflebear said:J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
Many Democrats were getting on Trump to initiate the Defensive Production Act and now that he has people are complaining about doing it. Again, doesn't matter what he does people will complain and take the opposite side.
Earlier in the day (during the noon hour) it was reported on CNBC by Phil LeBeau (the auto and airline industry reporter) that GM had reached a deal with Ventec (I think that was who it was) to produce ventilators. This was well before Trump announced his order. I guess he wanted it to appear that he had controlled the situation.
I just listened to Peter Navarro at the White House.J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
He said Ford was moving forward to help - so let me ask you why Ford can do it but GM can't? They are trying to prepare for the next 30-60 days when the apex is coming.
There are also 10+ other companies who already make them who are stepping up to the plate to speed things up.
Navarro has already been working w/ HHS/Fema over the past few weeks to partner w/ those 10+ companies who already make these. Again, they have been doing a lot behind the scenes none of us hear about.J.R. said:I think there is some room for that, however, GM and Ford are not the answer....He's doing that because of politics and talking out his arse with no facts, nor data. I don't care about politics, I care about people dying. Plenty of capacity with much more closely skilled workers need to that type of assembly than car plants. Many of these factories are not in the US because of costs. I would have zero issues having product made in Asia, India and Mexico because that is where the expertise resides. I would make sure that they are all American owned. Trump is once again bloviating about something he know nothing about , which are most things.riflebear said:J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
Many Democrats were getting on Trump to initiate the Defensive Production Act and now that he has people are complaining about doing it. Again, doesn't matter what he does people will complain and take the opposite side.
of course he did......unfortunately, Trump tweeted today that GM needed to open a closed factory that they don't even own. Again....this is technical stuff and you don't ramp to volume overnight.blackie said:
Earlier in the day (during the noon hour) it was reported on CNBC by Phil LeBeau (the auto and airline industry reporter) that GM had reached a deal with Ventec (I think that was who it was) to produce ventilators. This was well before Trump announced his order. I guess he wanted it to appear that he had controlled the situation.
Sorta like Republicans denying anything a Democrat does has any merit?? Just because they are Democrats....the facts be damned.
I guess for Republicans it just never goes both ways.
Trump got caught with his pants down.....not the first time.
Remember just a few days ago when he didn't want to let Americans off of the cruise ship because, as he said, he wanted to keep his numbers low.
I guess he didn't get his wish.
I guess for Republicans it just never goes both ways.
Trump got caught with his pants down.....not the first time.
Remember just a few days ago when he didn't want to let Americans off of the cruise ship because, as he said, he wanted to keep his numbers low.
I guess he didn't get his wish.
you really believe that? Nah.... its all politics with Trumps. Ford is no different than GM. Apples and Oranges. These products need to be in the hands of companies that know what they are doing. GM or Ford aren't those people. CM's can turn on a dime because that is what they do for a living. Plants and capacity all over the world and a workforce what is much better suited for this type of assembly. Peter Navarro is a twit.riflebear said:I just listened to Peter Navarro at the White House.J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
He said Ford was moving forward to help - so let me ask you why Ford can do it but GM can't? They are trying to prepare for the next 30-60 days when the apex is coming.
There are also 10+ other companies who already make them who are stepping up to the plate to speed things up.
J.R. said:It's really simple.....If you don't have the parts (700 parts on the BOM), you can't build.Jack and DP said:
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
This for sure.
GM does have the ability to make electronics; they still have the Delphi facilities (there is one in Warren, OH). Most of the remaining employees are in South America though there are numerous Delphi engineers and managers within 50 miles of that facility.
Ford owns a gigantic plant in Walton Hills, OH that was the Walton Hills stamping plant sitting completely empty.
I think both have the capability of producing ventilators, ovens, baseball bats or anything else they want. However, retooling a factory, as you point out, takes time...a lot of time and it doesn't matter how well tooled it is if there are no parts to assemble.
So you are saying that the head of this task force (Navarro) is lying while standing up there w/ the heads of all these organizations he just said he's been partnering w/ for the last few weeks?J.R. said:you really believe that? Nah.... its all politics with Trumps. Ford is no different than GM. Apples and Oranges. These products need to be in the hands of companies that know what they are doing. GM or Ford aren't those people. CM's can turn on a dime because that is what they do for a living. Plants and capacity all over the world and a workforce what is much better suited for this type of assembly. Peter Navarro is a twit.riflebear said:I just listened to Peter Navarro at the White House.J.R. said:
So, Trumps is telling GM to retrofit a factory to manufacture Ventilators in a couple of days. He just doesn't understand and he's just ill informed and is talking out of his ass. I spent a lot of my career running a $15B contract manufacturing firm on a global basis. Subsequently, I started and sold the same type of firm. You just don't retrofit a factory from cars to electronics in a matter of days. It is a 2-4 week process at best. The biggest problem is the supply chain. If you don't have the parts, you can't build it. Supplier's don't have finished goods sitting around. Most all of this stuff is custom and proprietary and without an order or forecast, it will be a while. I'd suggest that he go to the big contract manufacturers that are used to build this type of product and I'm sure they have capacity. Specifially, Sanmina-SCI, Flextronics, JBil and Foxconn (chinese, but good). Not GM. Makes no sense. This is really complicated stuff with alot of moving pieces and parts. Tooling in the factory is also critical. Have to be able to test PCBs and electronics. Quality is an imperative and it takes time. My point is he has zero idea what he is talking about.
He said Ford was moving forward to help - so let me ask you why Ford can do it but GM can't? They are trying to prepare for the next 30-60 days when the apex is coming.
There are also 10+ other companies who already make them who are stepping up to the plate to speed things up.
Goodness, TDS is a serious disease that spread faster than the Corona virus ever could and so far I haven't seen a cure.
And yes, we all know you can't retool a factory in a matter of days for something like this- it's why they were just saying the plan is in place to use GM/Ford as backups in 30-60 days to the other 10 companies who already make the ventilators.
they have the capability in terms of throwing lots of folks at it. What I'm concerned about is the the supply chain. They don't deal in those components or assemblies. They also don't have the relationships which is really importantnein51 said:J.R. said:It's really simple.....If you don't have the parts (700 parts on the BOM), you can't build.Jack and DP said:
Tommie, they are saying they can't. What if the ER staff said that in New Orleans today? Or the truckers delivering in NYC? They need to find a way or close up for good.
This for sure.
GM does have the ability to make electronics; they still have the Delphi facilities (there is one in Warren, OH). Most of the remaining employees are in South America though there are numerous Delphi engineers and managers within 50 miles of that facility.
Ford owns a gigantic plant in Walton Hills, OH that was the Walton Hills stamping plant sitting completely empty.
I think both have the capability of producing ventilators, ovens, baseball bats or anything else they want. However, retooling a factory, as you point out, takes time...a lot of time and it doesn't matter how well tooled it is if there are no parts to assemble.
I agree. There are certainly barriers. It's amazing how much money can break down barriers though.
There are certainly better options on the surface.
There are certainly better options on the surface.
You usually aren't a jerk. Gov. Cuomo is watching people, including medical professionals responding to this crisis with inadequate protection, die. Do you seriously think that wouldn't make YOU feel sick if YOU were the leader of a state? Or have you become such a Trumpet that pumping up the pompadour is more important to you than people's lives. I'm disgusted with you and every other Trump supporter who is defending Trump's inept, unprepared, Dan-Patrick-enabling response to the coronavirus. The ONLY reason Trump is doing squat about the coronavirus is Tucker Carlson. THAT is frightening and despicable. Holy Jesus, when are you fellas gonna wake up and smell the coffee? When your relatives die? I'm scared to death for my mother-in-law, and--after my drive home from Montana--anyone in the state of Missouri.Forest Bueller_bf said:
Well, if this thing lasts for months and then returns in the fall, which many predict it will, 2-4 weeks still gives them plenty of time to be ready to combat later outbreaks, and we will no longer have a shortage of ventilators.
Maybe then we won't have to hear Cuomo every day.
Trump hasn't had pants on since his election.GruntTuff said:
Sorta like Republicans denying anything a Democrat does has any merit?? Just because they are Democrats....the facts be damned.
I guess for Republicans it just never goes both ways.
Trump got caught with his pants down.....not the first time.
Remember just a few days ago when he didn't want to let Americans off of the cruise ship because, as he said, he wanted to keep his numbers low.
I guess he didn't get his wish.
Now, even Republicans have to acknowledge the emperor has no clothes. But they won't.