Do more unarmed whites or blacks die by police each year?

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

Everybody should quarantine themselves from the police and stay safe.

D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

---

The argument is weak af. It assumes that most or a material portion of all police shootings are unwarranted - i.e., that a statistically higher rate of crime among one racial/socioeconomic group has no bearing on the reason for and nature of the conflict that gives rise to the shootings in the first place. It's a false assumption.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

---

I am not lying or mischaracterizing anything. You are reading things in my posts that aren't there. Jack Bauer's post notes that more whites than blacks are shot and killed by police. I note that, all other things being equal, blacks are being shot by police at twice the rate you would expect if shooting by police was randomly distributed. I did not offer a reason why this is so. You offered statistics, which I have not checked, saying that blacks commit a massively greater percentage of crimes to explain why they are shot by police at a massively higher rate.

Your HIV analogy is flawed in the following way. If someone is gay, but never has sex, they aren't going to contract HIV, and they will not develop AIDS. If someone is black, but doesn't commits crimes, he may still be mistreated by police and there are plenty of examples of African American citizens being mistreated by police even when they didn't do anything wrong. There are no examples of a gay person who didn't have sex contracting HIV simply because he was gay.

Now, my question is still there to be answered: should an individual African American man expect to be treated badly by police because of the actions of other African American men?

---

First, your final question is stupid. I never suggested that in anything I wrote. You are once again changing the argument, this time, from one where you started claiming the mere fact of being black is "somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..." I provided you evidence you haven't read and you then alter your argument to some amorphous notion of "mistreatment", which could literally mean anything and be prompted by anything. I could link you to a study that shows " black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour" which is one data appoint that accounts for more interactions with police even in non-violent crimes.

Of course, then we could talk about cultural norms of interaction with police and you could claim that all racial groups in America (by which many self-select into a particular culture) are equally as compliant and interact with police as cordially instead of some escalating the situation more readily with unnecessary belligerence. You could say there is no study and I would agree but point to riots and pop culture where anthems like "f*** the Po-lice" are popular to suggest otherwise.


Of course, you are mischaracterizing my points and then changing the argument. You are also projecting when you claim it's me reading into your posts, when you very explicitly read into mine, multiple times.

- " You appear to be making the argument"
- " You post seems to imply"
- "The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated"

It didn't 'appear' I was making the argument you suggested, my post didn't 'seem' to imply what you claimed and I never advanced the idea you mentioned. You are projecting because your argument is ignorant. You even admit your argument is ignorant by admitting you haven't even looked at the FBI crime statistics for which you have the link.

The HIV analogy is not at all flawed. Of course, a gay man can get HIV without having sex. Gay and straight men and women and children have all gotten HIV as a result of negative externalities of promiscuous gay sex through things like blood transfusions. Today that is just as rare as a black man being shot by police completely unconnected to a crime. The analogy not only holds, but it cleaves so close to reality as to make it insurmountable for your viewpoint.

bear2be2 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

This. None of bearitto's crime statistics are relevant to black men killed for selling cigarettes, rolling through stop signs, using counterfeit bills or wandering white neighborhoods. Those aren't crimes that white people are being killed by police/wannabe police over. They're just not. And to suggest that black people should expect to be and accept being treated like violent criminals because of the offenses of others and then deny that a racial double standard/racism exists is insanity.

---

You should really just be silent. You are not smart, you don't understand what you claim to and you are wrong in virtually every post you make. You make claims above that you can't possibly hope to back up with data. You ignorantly assume you are correct, well, because you are ignorant and that is what ignorant people do. Go sit down.

Before hitting "post", one should ask themselves if their stated views align more with the militant side of BLM, the KKK, or Christ?

Bearitto said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

This. None of bearitto's crime statistics are relevant to black men killed for selling cigarettes, rolling through stop signs, using counterfeit bills or wandering white neighborhoods. Those aren't crimes that white people are being killed by police/wannabe police over. They're just not. And to suggest that black people should expect to be and accept being treated like violent criminals because of the offenses of others and then deny that a racial double standard/racism exists is insanity.

---

You should really just be silent. You are not smart, you don't understand what you claim to and you are wrong in virtually every post you make. You make claims above that you can't possibly hope to back up with data. You ignorantly assume you are correct, well, because you are ignorant and that is what ignorant people do. Go sit down.

---

You insulting the intelligence of anyone here is laughable. I've never in my life seen someone be so proud to be as ignorant and unbearable a piece of human **** as yourself. I could not give two ****s what a Neanderthal cave troll like you thinks about me or anything else. I just don't want your bull**** going unchecked here lest someone think your nonsense is representative of a community I actually do care about.

bear2be2 said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

This. None of bearitto's crime statistics are relevant to black men killed for selling cigarettes, rolling through stop signs, using counterfeit bills or wandering white neighborhoods. Those aren't crimes that white people are being killed by police/wannabe police over. They're just not. And to suggest that black people should expect to be and accept being treated like violent criminals because of the offenses of others and then deny that a racial double standard/racism exists is insanity.

---

You should really just be silent. You are not smart, you don't understand what you claim to and you are wrong in virtually every post you make. You make claims above that you can't possibly hope to back up with data. You ignorantly assume you are correct, well, because you are ignorant and that is what ignorant people do. Go sit down.

---

You insulting the intelligence of anyone here is laughable. I've never in my life seen someone be so proud to be as ignorant and unbearable a piece of human **** as yourself. I could not give two ****s what a Neanderthal cave troll like you thinks about me or anything else. I just don't want your bull**** going unchecked here lest someone think your nonsense is representative of a community I actually do care about.

---

I get it. You find statistics to be confusing, what with all those numbers and dots and funny symbols. And math? Forget about it. If you cared about anything but your imaginary friends, you'd be interested in facts. You aren't and you don't. Sit down.

Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

---

I am not lying or mischaracterizing anything. You are reading things in my posts that aren't there. Jack Bauer's post notes that more whites than blacks are shot and killed by police. I note that, all other things being equal, blacks are being shot by police at twice the rate you would expect if shooting by police was randomly distributed. I did not offer a reason why this is so. You offered statistics, which I have not checked, saying that blacks commit a massively greater percentage of crimes to explain why they are shot by police at a massively higher rate.

Your HIV analogy is flawed in the following way. If someone is gay, but never has sex, they aren't going to contract HIV, and they will not develop AIDS. If someone is black, but doesn't commits crimes, he may still be mistreated by police and there are plenty of examples of African American citizens being mistreated by police even when they didn't do anything wrong. There are no examples of a gay person who didn't have sex contracting HIV simply because he was gay.

Now, my question is still there to be answered: should an individual African American man expect to be treated badly by police because of the actions of other African American men?

---

First, your final question is stupid. I never suggested that in anything I wrote. You are once again changing the argument, this time, from one where you started claiming the mere fact of being black is "somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..." I provided you evidence you haven't read and you then alter your argument to some amorphous notion of "mistreatment", which could literally mean anything and be prompted by anything. I could link you to a study that shows " black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour" which is one data appoint that accounts for more interactions with police even in non-violent crimes.

Of course, then we could talk about cultural norms of interaction with police and you could claim that all racial groups in America (by which many self-select into a particular culture) are equally as compliant and interact with police as cordially instead of some escalating the situation more readily with unnecessary belligerence. You could say there is no study and I would agree but point to riots and pop culture where anthems like "f*** the Po-lice" are popular to suggest otherwise.


Of course, you are mischaracterizing my points and then changing the argument. You are also projecting when you claim it's me reading into your posts, when you very explicitly read into mine, multiple times.

- " You appear to be making the argument"
- " You post seems to imply"
- "The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated"

It didn't 'appear' I was making the argument you suggested, my post didn't 'seem' to imply what you claimed and I never advanced the idea you mentioned. You are projecting because your argument is ignorant. You even admit your argument is ignorant by admitting you haven't even looked at the FBI crime statistics for which you have the link.

The HIV analogy is not at all flawed. Of course, a gay man can get HIV without having sex. Gay and straight men and women and children have all gotten HIV as a result of negative externalities of promiscuous gay sex through things like blood transfusions. Today that is just as rare as a black man being shot by police completely unconnected to a crime. The analogy not only holds, but it cleaves so close to reality as to make it insurmountable for your viewpoint.

---

You HIV analogy remains flawed, and deeply so. I did not say there was no other way to contract HIV for a gay man besides sex. I said that a gay man would not contract HIV without having sex simply because he was gay.

I'm not "admitting my argument is ignorant" because I didn't check your statistics to see if they were an accurate reflection of the FBI statistics. I don't need to look at particular FBI statistics broken down by race, I have seen them before. I did not fact check your particular numbers, which likely required some calculation on your part.

A black man, however, may be mistreated by cops even when he has done nothing. The arguments you are making, when logically extended, would imply this is not the case.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

---

I am not lying or mischaracterizing anything. You are reading things in my posts that aren't there. Jack Bauer's post notes that more whites than blacks are shot and killed by police. I note that, all other things being equal, blacks are being shot by police at twice the rate you would expect if shooting by police was randomly distributed. I did not offer a reason why this is so. You offered statistics, which I have not checked, saying that blacks commit a massively greater percentage of crimes to explain why they are shot by police at a massively higher rate.

Your HIV analogy is flawed in the following way. If someone is gay, but never has sex, they aren't going to contract HIV, and they will not develop AIDS. If someone is black, but doesn't commits crimes, he may still be mistreated by police and there are plenty of examples of African American citizens being mistreated by police even when they didn't do anything wrong. There are no examples of a gay person who didn't have sex contracting HIV simply because he was gay.

Now, my question is still there to be answered: should an individual African American man expect to be treated badly by police because of the actions of other African American men?

---

First, your final question is stupid. I never suggested that in anything I wrote. You are once again changing the argument, this time, from one where you started claiming the mere fact of being black is "somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..." I provided you evidence you haven't read and you then alter your argument to some amorphous notion of "mistreatment", which could literally mean anything and be prompted by anything. I could link you to a study that shows " black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour" which is one data appoint that accounts for more interactions with police even in non-violent crimes.

Of course, then we could talk about cultural norms of interaction with police and you could claim that all racial groups in America (by which many self-select into a particular culture) are equally as compliant and interact with police as cordially instead of some escalating the situation more readily with unnecessary belligerence. You could say there is no study and I would agree but point to riots and pop culture where anthems like "f*** the Po-lice" are popular to suggest otherwise.


Of course, you are mischaracterizing my points and then changing the argument. You are also projecting when you claim it's me reading into your posts, when you very explicitly read into mine, multiple times.

- " You appear to be making the argument"
- " You post seems to imply"
- "The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated"

It didn't 'appear' I was making the argument you suggested, my post didn't 'seem' to imply what you claimed and I never advanced the idea you mentioned. You are projecting because your argument is ignorant. You even admit your argument is ignorant by admitting you haven't even looked at the FBI crime statistics for which you have the link.

The HIV analogy is not at all flawed. Of course, a gay man can get HIV without having sex. Gay and straight men and women and children have all gotten HIV as a result of negative externalities of promiscuous gay sex through things like blood transfusions. Today that is just as rare as a black man being shot by police completely unconnected to a crime. The analogy not only holds, but it cleaves so close to reality as to make it insurmountable for your viewpoint.

---

You HIV analogy remains flawed, and deeply so. I did not say there was no other way to contract HIV for a gay man besides sex. I said that a gay man would not contract HIV without having sex simply because he was gay.

I'm not "admitting my argument is ignorant" because I didn't check your statistics to see if they were an accurate reflection of the FBI statistics. I don't need to look at particular FBI statistics broken down by race, I have seen them before. I did not fact check your particular numbers, which likely required some calculation on your part.

A black man, however, may be mistreated by cops even when he has done nothing. The arguments you are making, when logically extended, would imply this is not the case.

---

The analogy is accurate and apt. Any person of any color can be mistreated by the police, and all are. My argument never suggested otherwise, directly or by extension. This is particularly true since my argument was in response to your original claims about police shootings, not mere mistreatment referenced in your new watered down catch all nonsense.

What will you change your argument to next?

Gold Tron said:

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Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

---

Because that 13 percent has the most complex/problematic history of any American population save maybe the natives. And because that history still impacts that group socially and economically today.

And let's follow your squeaky wheel theory to its logical end. If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons. 1) Black people are somehow inferior to the nation's other races (an inherently racist position), or 2) external forces have stacked the deck against that particular group of people. Given this country's history with slavery and discriminatory laws, I think it's pretty obvious which is the correct conclusion. And until we can acknowledge, as a country, the role history plays on the present, any discussion of potential solutions is futile.

bear2be2 said:

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Gold Tron said:

---

Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

---

Because that 13 percent has the most complex/problematic history of any American population save maybe the natives. And because that history still impacts that group socially and economically today.

And let's follow your squeaky wheel theory to its logical end. If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons. 1) Black people are somehow inferior to the nation's other races (an inherently racist position), or 2) external forces have stacked the deck against that particular group of people. Given this country's history with slavery and discriminatory laws, I think it's pretty obvious which is the correct conclusion. And until we can acknowledge, as a country, the role history plays on the present, any discussion of potential solutions is futile.

---

Dear lord!! Lol!! You think either it's genetic inferiority or dastardly racism? Here's a hint, that you think it's one of those two things makes you guilty of the second.

Black crime and the consequences there of is a cultural issue. It's got nothing to do with racism or genetics, except insofar as too many people choose to create a culture around their race, which is something called tribalism. Those who chose not to be part of that culture aren't generally the victim of the dastardly institutional evil whitey white white cracker patriarchy that Willy nilly pulls innocent blacks off the streets to randomly kill or jail, depending on the viciously malevolently racist honky pigs whims that day. Nope. They are too busy at work and raising their kids in homes with a mother and a father.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Before hitting "post", one should ask themselves if their stated views align more with the militant side of BLM, the KKK, or Christ?

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Ill try this again

bear2be2 said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

---

Because that 13 percent has the most complex/problematic history of any American population save maybe the natives. And because that history still impacts that group socially and economically today.

And let's follow your squeaky wheel theory to its logical end. If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons. 1) Black people are somehow inferior to the nation's other races (an inherently racist position), or 2) external forces have stacked the deck against that particular group of people. Given this country's history with slavery and discriminatory laws, I think it's pretty obvious which is the correct conclusion. And until we can acknowledge, as a country, the role history plays on the present, any discussion of potential solutions is futile.

---

" If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons." = fallacy

curtpenn said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

---

Because that 13 percent has the most complex/problematic history of any American population save maybe the natives. And because that history still impacts that group socially and economically today.

And let's follow your squeaky wheel theory to its logical end. If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons. 1) Black people are somehow inferior to the nation's other races (an inherently racist position), or 2) external forces have stacked the deck against that particular group of people. Given this country's history with slavery and discriminatory laws, I think it's pretty obvious which is the correct conclusion. And until we can acknowledge, as a country, the role history plays on the present, any discussion of potential solutions is futile.

---

" If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons." = fallacy

---

Oh, don't use words he doesn't understand.

Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

---

You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

---

The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

---

I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

---

You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

---

Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

---

"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

---

I am not lying or mischaracterizing anything. You are reading things in my posts that aren't there. Jack Bauer's post notes that more whites than blacks are shot and killed by police. I note that, all other things being equal, blacks are being shot by police at twice the rate you would expect if shooting by police was randomly distributed. I did not offer a reason why this is so. You offered statistics, which I have not checked, saying that blacks commit a massively greater percentage of crimes to explain why they are shot by police at a massively higher rate.

Your HIV analogy is flawed in the following way. If someone is gay, but never has sex, they aren't going to contract HIV, and they will not develop AIDS. If someone is black, but doesn't commits crimes, he may still be mistreated by police and there are plenty of examples of African American citizens being mistreated by police even when they didn't do anything wrong. There are no examples of a gay person who didn't have sex contracting HIV simply because he was gay.

Now, my question is still there to be answered: should an individual African American man expect to be treated badly by police because of the actions of other African American men?

---

First, your final question is stupid. I never suggested that in anything I wrote. You are once again changing the argument, this time, from one where you started claiming the mere fact of being black is "somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..." I provided you evidence you haven't read and you then alter your argument to some amorphous notion of "mistreatment", which could literally mean anything and be prompted by anything. I could link you to a study that shows " black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour" which is one data appoint that accounts for more interactions with police even in non-violent crimes.

Of course, then we could talk about cultural norms of interaction with police and you could claim that all racial groups in America (by which many self-select into a particular culture) are equally as compliant and interact with police as cordially instead of some escalating the situation more readily with unnecessary belligerence. You could say there is no study and I would agree but point to riots and pop culture where anthems like "f*** the Po-lice" are popular to suggest otherwise.


Of course, you are mischaracterizing my points and then changing the argument. You are also projecting when you claim it's me reading into your posts, when you very explicitly read into mine, multiple times.

- " You appear to be making the argument"
- " You post seems to imply"
- "The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated"

It didn't 'appear' I was making the argument you suggested, my post didn't 'seem' to imply what you claimed and I never advanced the idea you mentioned. You are projecting because your argument is ignorant. You even admit your argument is ignorant by admitting you haven't even looked at the FBI crime statistics for which you have the link.

The HIV analogy is not at all flawed. Of course, a gay man can get HIV without having sex. Gay and straight men and women and children have all gotten HIV as a result of negative externalities of promiscuous gay sex through things like blood transfusions. Today that is just as rare as a black man being shot by police completely unconnected to a crime. The analogy not only holds, but it cleaves so close to reality as to make it insurmountable for your viewpoint.

---

You HIV analogy remains flawed, and deeply so. I did not say there was no other way to contract HIV for a gay man besides sex. I said that a gay man would not contract HIV without having sex simply because he was gay.

I'm not "admitting my argument is ignorant" because I didn't check your statistics to see if they were an accurate reflection of the FBI statistics. I don't need to look at particular FBI statistics broken down by race, I have seen them before. I did not fact check your particular numbers, which likely required some calculation on your part.

A black man, however, may be mistreated by cops even when he has done nothing. The arguments you are making, when logically extended, would imply this is not the case.

---

The analogy is accurate and apt. Any person of any color can be mistreated by the police, and all are. My argument never suggested otherwise, directly or by extension. This is particularly true since my argument was in response to your original claims about police shootings, not mere mistreatment referenced in your new watered down catch all nonsense.

What will you change your argument to next?

---

My "original claim" is an observation about math. Math, when it is correct, and it is in this case, is not subject to being refuted. Your statistics are an attempt to explain that math.

Lay out what your argument actually is. Are you arguing that a totally innocent white guy has an equal chance of being shot by police as a totally innocent white guy?

Your analogy with HIV is neither accurate nor apt, unless one considers the color of someone's skin to be analogous to engaging in a particular risky behavior.

curtpenn said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Gold Tron said:

---

Why do we spend so much time talking about <13% of our population. Asians and Hispanics are equal or greater than that percentage and all we talk about with respect to either of those people groups is illegal immigrants which pertains to a small amount of either. It is exhausting. It really is the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

---

Because that 13 percent has the most complex/problematic history of any American population save maybe the natives. And because that history still impacts that group socially and economically today.

And let's follow your squeaky wheel theory to its logical end. If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons. 1) Black people are somehow inferior to the nation's other races (an inherently racist position), or 2) external forces have stacked the deck against that particular group of people. Given this country's history with slavery and discriminatory laws, I think it's pretty obvious which is the correct conclusion. And until we can acknowledge, as a country, the role history plays on the present, any discussion of potential solutions is futile.

---

" If African Americans are America's squeaky wheel, that can only be for one of two reasons." = fallacy

---

Yes, that is definitely a fallacy. It may be that 1) African Americans aren't "America's squeaky wheel" or 2) that there are additional reasons or combinations of reasons why they are.

What is your explanation?

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Bearitto said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jack Bauer said:

---

2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

---

So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

---

Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

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You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

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The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

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I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans?

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Street sense ?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Before hitting "post", one should ask themselves if their stated views align more with the militant side of BLM, the KKK, or Christ?

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Ill try this again

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and again

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Before hitting "post", one should ask themselves if their stated views align more with the militant side of BLM, the KKK, or Christ?

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Ill try this again

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and again

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Suspect East St Louis after 9pm would be far more educational.

D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Bearitto said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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2019: people shot/killed by police
White - 370
Black- 235
Hispanic - 158
Other - 39
Unknown 202

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So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed...

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Well, they commit 4 times the murders and robberies and 2+ times the rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, car thefts, arson, and other assaults. You can't really expect to do so much of a thing, completely and absurdly out of proportion with your population, and not have equally absurdly out of proportion interactions with people whose job is to stop those things from happening.

It's all about as shocking as the prevalence of HIV in the promiscuous gay community.


https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

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You talk about "your population" as though Blacks are somehow responsible for the actions of other Blacks. Why is that?

The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated by the cops because some other African Americans committed any variety of crimes is interesting. Men commit a huge percentage of rapes. If a cop pulled out a gun and shot a man dead in the street, someone might make the absurd argument that he cannot really expect not to be shot dead in the street since such a high percentage of rapes are committed by men, even though he was just minding his own business.

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The argument has been that the black population in America is singled out and " We're literally hunted EVERYDAY/EVERYTIME we step foot outside the comfort of our homes!" the us v them argument is not my creation. It's the creation of activists, celebrities, politicians, and now looters.

I see you'd like to try and ignore that to try and dismiss the statistics that explain why enforcement is more common among blacks, but that's intellectually dishonest at best.

Don't try and change arguments mid stream.

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I'm not changing the arguments.

Why should an African American expect to be treated badly by cops because the actions of other African Americans? You post seems to imply you believe this is the case.

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You are changing the argument. You know you are.

You say "blacks account for" as relates to enforcement outcomes and I fill in the details on what blacks account for as relates to what prompts law enforcement action. You don't like that your argument is made to look like the ignorant nonsense it is and you change arguments.

Go to bed or stop drinking. You are obviously not thinking clearly.

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Read what I said: "So Blacks likely account for something more than about twice what one would expect if race wasn't somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..."

I am not arguing here that Blacks are shot by cops because they are black. I am saying that there is some relationship between being black and being shot by cops that isn't random.

You appear to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops because of the actions of some African Americans. Is that your contention?

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"Shot and killed" follows "enforcement" which follows "crime committed".

"Shot and killed" by race follows "enforcement" by race which follows "crimes committed" by race...proportionally.

The argument you made and everyone else makes is an us v them argument using population proportion to claim racism. The argument carried through with statistics demonstrates that proportionality is statistically in line with crime rates.

Your claim that my post "appears to be making the argument that all African Americans should expect to be treated poorly by cops" is not just a mischaracterization. It's a lie.

I gave a very clear analogy to demonstrate my point...HIV in the gay community. Should every gay person expect to get HIV? No. Should every gay person expect that the incidence of HIV will be higher in their community where promiscuity is statistically higher than other communities? Yes. The statistics don't mean HIV targets gays. It means more gays engage in more activities that lead to HIV infections.

You intentionally mischaracterize and lie. Why is that?

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I am not lying or mischaracterizing anything. You are reading things in my posts that aren't there. Jack Bauer's post notes that more whites than blacks are shot and killed by police. I note that, all other things being equal, blacks are being shot by police at twice the rate you would expect if shooting by police was randomly distributed. I did not offer a reason why this is so. You offered statistics, which I have not checked, saying that blacks commit a massively greater percentage of crimes to explain why they are shot by police at a massively higher rate.

Your HIV analogy is flawed in the following way. If someone is gay, but never has sex, they aren't going to contract HIV, and they will not develop AIDS. If someone is black, but doesn't commits crimes, he may still be mistreated by police and there are plenty of examples of African American citizens being mistreated by police even when they didn't do anything wrong. There are no examples of a gay person who didn't have sex contracting HIV simply because he was gay.

Now, my question is still there to be answered: should an individual African American man expect to be treated badly by police because of the actions of other African American men?

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First, your final question is stupid. I never suggested that in anything I wrote. You are once again changing the argument, this time, from one where you started claiming the mere fact of being black is "somehow statistically related to being shot or killed..." I provided you evidence you haven't read and you then alter your argument to some amorphous notion of "mistreatment", which could literally mean anything and be prompted by anything. I could link you to a study that shows " black drivers on the New Jersey Turnpike are twice as likely to speed as white drivers, and are even more dominant among drivers breaking 90 miles per hour" which is one data appoint that accounts for more interactions with police even in non-violent crimes.

Of course, then we could talk about cultural norms of interaction with police and you could claim that all racial groups in America (by which many self-select into a particular culture) are equally as compliant and interact with police as cordially instead of some escalating the situation more readily with unnecessary belligerence. You could say there is no study and I would agree but point to riots and pop culture where anthems like "f*** the Po-lice" are popular to suggest otherwise.


Of course, you are mischaracterizing my points and then changing the argument. You are also projecting when you claim it's me reading into your posts, when you very explicitly read into mine, multiple times.

- " You appear to be making the argument"
- " You post seems to imply"
- "The idea that an individual African American should expect to be mistreated"

It didn't 'appear' I was making the argument you suggested, my post didn't 'seem' to imply what you claimed and I never advanced the idea you mentioned. You are projecting because your argument is ignorant. You even admit your argument is ignorant by admitting you haven't even looked at the FBI crime statistics for which you have the link.

The HIV analogy is not at all flawed. Of course, a gay man can get HIV without having sex. Gay and straight men and women and children have all gotten HIV as a result of negative externalities of promiscuous gay sex through things like blood transfusions. Today that is just as rare as a black man being shot by police completely unconnected to a crime. The analogy not only holds, but it cleaves so close to reality as to make it insurmountable for your viewpoint.

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You HIV analogy remains flawed, and deeply so. I did not say there was no other way to contract HIV for a gay man besides sex. I said that a gay man would not contract HIV without having sex simply because he was gay.

I'm not "admitting my argument is ignorant" because I didn't check your statistics to see if they were an accurate reflection of the FBI statistics. I don't need to look at particular FBI statistics broken down by race, I have seen them before. I did not fact check your particular numbers, which likely required some calculation on your part.

A black man, however, may be mistreated by cops even when he has done nothing. The arguments you are making, when logically extended, would imply this is not the case.

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The analogy is accurate and apt. Any person of any color can be mistreated by the police, and all are. My argument never suggested otherwise, directly or by extension. This is particularly true since my argument was in response to your original claims about police shootings, not mere mistreatment referenced in your new watered down catch all nonsense.

What will you change your argument to next?

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My "original claim" is an observation about math. Math, when it is correct, and it is in this case, is not subject to being refuted. Your statistics are an attempt to explain that math.

Lay out what your argument actually is. Are you arguing that a totally innocent white guy has an equal chance of being shot by police as a totally innocent white guy?

Your analogy with HIV is neither accurate nor apt, unless one considers the color of someone's skin to be analogous to engaging in a particular risky behavior.

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I would like to see how you could statistical argue otherwise.