We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
very well putPablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Lets not ignore that you have to try to make it work and you have to work at it. Don't ignore this fact.bear2be2 said:We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
And frankly, to think that a handful of law changes and a few decades of time would undo centuries of systemic oppression is pretty naive.
Good questions. One of the pillars of racism and racialism is to undermine the concept of individualism in favor of group identity. It's how blacks were targeted, and every major group since and before. You curb freedom by assigning condition across a group regardless of individual circumstance. So to expect there is some monolithic "sea of whiteness" that needs to be "fixed" is the exact same approach every oppressor has used. That is why it is a mechanism of racism disguised to address racism. This is like a Maoist struggle session of shaming, not a conversation or process of change when you assume and project beliefs across a diverse spectrum of individuals.PartyBear said:
Why does this statement offend you so much? And a follow up why don't actual racist statements frequently thrown around here not? Why doesn't calling making the campus more friendly to minority students Bolshevik offend you?
You are my #2 most woke poster on these boards right behind Waco1947. Don't think you will catch him until he checks out. (cinque and username checks out are not in the running because they are paid to post).bear2be2 said:We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
And frankly, to think that a handful of law changes and a few decades of time would undo centuries of systemic oppression is pretty naive.
bear2be2 said:We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
And frankly, to think that a handful of law changes and a few decades of time would undo centuries of systemic oppression is pretty naive.
Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
You just hurt George Truett's feelings. He tries so hard to be woke but ends up faceplanting most of the time.RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:You are my #2 most woke poster on these boards right behind Waco1947. Don't think you will catch him until he checks out. (cinque and username checks out are not in the running because they are paid to post).bear2be2 said:We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
And frankly, to think that a handful of law changes and a few decades of time would undo centuries of systemic oppression is pretty naive.
Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
bear2be2 said:PartyBear said:
Why does this statement offend you so much? And a follow up why don't actual racist statements frequently thrown around here not? Why doesn't calling making the campus more friendly to minority students Bolshevik offend you?
These are good questions. I'm frequently amazed by the blatant racism/bigotry that goes unanswered on this forum. And that's not even including the veiled stuff. When you let that go, and routinely get offended by others' responses to racism, the conclusions one can draw about your positions on American race relations are fairly limited.
bear2be2 said:White privilege doesn't mean you've lived an easy life. It means your skin color hasn't contributed to the adversity you've faced.Carlos Safety said:
My sort-of-white experience includes being indebted almost $130,000 in student loans and virtually homeless for a couple of years. Is this the privilege we are looking for?
This is well said, but I don't agree. The term "white privilege" is offensive because white people don't want to believe they have it. True, they work hard, but they still enjoy a privileged place vis a vie people of color.Herron2 said:Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Wow! So much that is so well expressed! Well done sir!
Without discussing all of your points, I do want to reiterate your mention of the offensive and divisive phrase "white privilege." Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are white and have worked and continue to work very hard to have attained what little they have. They/we did not come from wealthy families and when others call them/us "privileged", they/we can often, naturally, feel insulted.
While most, if not all, of us would agree that it is much easier to be white than black in this country and would like to see equal opportunity for equal merit regardless of skin color, few of us, like so many black people or other minorities, feel like we are a part of some privileged class that never had to work hard or face any adversity.
So when the phrase "white privilege" is, at best, carelessly or foolishly (on its face it's offensive to many hard working, white Americans) thrown around, the natural result is anger and defensiveness. While this may not be the intended result, it is the understandable and predictable result for those who feel like their efforts are being ridiculed simply because of their skin color. The phrase is foolishness, if not incendiary, and should be dropped.
I suspect no good will come from the repeated beating/shaming of white people with this phrase. What little good may result, I fear will be far outweighed by the unnecessary resentment and defensiveness being instilled in many of the hard working, average, angry and well armed white masses. While I'm not describing myself necessarily (I'm fortunate enough to somewhat understand that I've been forgiven immeasurably, and, thus, should go and do likewise) I'm not so sure my acquaintances are so enlightened or fortunate.
To summarize, the phrase "white privilege" is inherently offensive to many, if not most, white people, and the net result as measured by racial unity will likely be negative. While I do not suggest that the phrase should be banned or censored, I would simply suggest that more consideration be given to phraseology. In other words, if your goal is racial equality, then being a little more descriptive of historical and current racial inequities (not the patently offensive "you're white, thus, you're privileged" (and, thus, patently absurd, if you are attempting to accomplish any meaningful change)). Quite simply, point out the disparities without engaging in broad brush insulting of the hard work of the "majority".
P.S. - It's my understanding that people who currently live at the U.S. poverty level are still within the top 10% wealth level in this world. If we self-implode over destructive phrases like white privilege, should we expect any mercy when those who view us (all of us) as "America Privileged" (or whatever) move in to harvest whatever remains?
As Marxist history shows us, the next discussion after accepting your premise is that we should make white lives more difficult so that we can de-privilage white people.George Truett said:This is well said, but I don't agree. The term "white privilege" is offensive because white people don't want to believe they have it. True, they work hard, but they still enjoy a privileged place vis a vie people of color.Herron2 said:Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Wow! So much that is so well expressed! Well done sir!
Without discussing all of your points, I do want to reiterate your mention of the offensive and divisive phrase "white privilege." Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are white and have worked and continue to work very hard to have attained what little they have. They/we did not come from wealthy families and when others call them/us "privileged", they/we can often, naturally, feel insulted.
While most, if not all, of us would agree that it is much easier to be white than black in this country and would like to see equal opportunity for equal merit regardless of skin color, few of us, like so many black people or other minorities, feel like we are a part of some privileged class that never had to work hard or face any adversity.
So when the phrase "white privilege" is, at best, carelessly or foolishly (on its face it's offensive to many hard working, white Americans) thrown around, the natural result is anger and defensiveness. While this may not be the intended result, it is the understandable and predictable result for those who feel like their efforts are being ridiculed simply because of their skin color. The phrase is foolishness, if not incendiary, and should be dropped.
I suspect no good will come from the repeated beating/shaming of white people with this phrase. What little good may result, I fear will be far outweighed by the unnecessary resentment and defensiveness being instilled in many of the hard working, average, angry and well armed white masses. While I'm not describing myself necessarily (I'm fortunate enough to somewhat understand that I've been forgiven immeasurably, and, thus, should go and do likewise) I'm not so sure my acquaintances are so enlightened or fortunate.
To summarize, the phrase "white privilege" is inherently offensive to many, if not most, white people, and the net result as measured by racial unity will likely be negative. While I do not suggest that the phrase should be banned or censored, I would simply suggest that more consideration be given to phraseology. In other words, if your goal is racial equality, then being a little more descriptive of historical and current racial inequities (not the patently offensive "you're white, thus, you're privileged" (and, thus, patently absurd, if you are attempting to accomplish any meaningful change)). Quite simply, point out the disparities without engaging in broad brush insulting of the hard work of the "majority".
P.S. - It's my understanding that people who currently live at the U.S. poverty level are still within the top 10% wealth level in this world. If we self-implode over destructive phrases like white privilege, should we expect any mercy when those who view us (all of us) as "America Privileged" (or whatever) move in to harvest whatever remains?
I come from "mill people." They worked in Southern cotton mills. Their lives were difficult and they worked hard. But they had much more than blacks who lived in their communities. They had better access to medical care, their kids went to better schools, etc., etc.
I know it's upsetting to many white people, but in this moment, I think something provocative is needed to get people to open their eyes and see something they've not seen. I don't think "Black disadvantage" communicates the situation as well.
I think Dr. Livingstone put it really well. We whites swim in our privilege without being aware of it. We're becoming more aware and that's a good thing. But we have a long way to go.
George Truett said:This is well said, but I don't agree. The term "white privilege" is offensive because white people don't want to believe they have it. True, they work hard, but they still enjoy a privileged place vis a vie people of color.Herron2 said:Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Wow! So much that is so well expressed! Well done sir!
Without discussing all of your points, I do want to reiterate your mention of the offensive and divisive phrase "white privilege." Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are white and have worked and continue to work very hard to have attained what little they have. They/we did not come from wealthy families and when others call them/us "privileged", they/we can often, naturally, feel insulted.
While most, if not all, of us would agree that it is much easier to be white than black in this country and would like to see equal opportunity for equal merit regardless of skin color, few of us, like so many black people or other minorities, feel like we are a part of some privileged class that never had to work hard or face any adversity.
So when the phrase "white privilege" is, at best, carelessly or foolishly (on its face it's offensive to many hard working, white Americans) thrown around, the natural result is anger and defensiveness. While this may not be the intended result, it is the understandable and predictable result for those who feel like their efforts are being ridiculed simply because of their skin color. The phrase is foolishness, if not incendiary, and should be dropped.
I suspect no good will come from the repeated beating/shaming of white people with this phrase. What little good may result, I fear will be far outweighed by the unnecessary resentment and defensiveness being instilled in many of the hard working, average, angry and well armed white masses. While I'm not describing myself necessarily (I'm fortunate enough to somewhat understand that I've been forgiven immeasurably, and, thus, should go and do likewise) I'm not so sure my acquaintances are so enlightened or fortunate.
To summarize, the phrase "white privilege" is inherently offensive to many, if not most, white people, and the net result as measured by racial unity will likely be negative. While I do not suggest that the phrase should be banned or censored, I would simply suggest that more consideration be given to phraseology. In other words, if your goal is racial equality, then being a little more descriptive of historical and current racial inequities (not the patently offensive "you're white, thus, you're privileged" (and, thus, patently absurd, if you are attempting to accomplish any meaningful change)). Quite simply, point out the disparities without engaging in broad brush insulting of the hard work of the "majority".
P.S. - It's my understanding that people who currently live at the U.S. poverty level are still within the top 10% wealth level in this world. If we self-implode over destructive phrases like white privilege, should we expect any mercy when those who view us (all of us) as "America Privileged" (or whatever) move in to harvest whatever remains?
I come from "mill people." They worked in Southern cotton mills. Their lives were difficult and they worked hard. But they had much more than blacks who lived in their communities. They had better access to medical care, their kids went to better schools, etc., etc.
I know it's upsetting to many white people, but in this moment, I think something provocative is needed to get people to open their eyes and see something they've not seen. I don't think "Black disadvantage" communicates the situation as well.
I think Dr. Livingstone put it really well. We whites swim in our privilege without being aware of it. We're becoming more aware and that's a good thing. But we have a long way to go.
I agree. If America's original sin is slavery, then we are reaping the fruit ... again.Herron2 said:
Simply put, a divided house will ultimately fall, and the phrase "white privilege", regardless of the user's intent, is offensive to most white people and thus divisive. The potential collapse is just accelerated.
No doubt. Combine that with ongoing human sacrifice in the name of "choice" (i.e. utter selfishness), and the present level of violence and meanness should surprise no one. I suspect the fruit will get even worse, but God still cares and can still intervene if he chooses to do so. At the very least, we can ask God to change hearts and minds (including our own) to love and protect our fellow humans regardless of physical, emotional or mental development and attributes.Osodecentx said:I agree. If America's original sin is slavery, then we are reaping the fruit ... again.Herron2 said:
Simply put, a divided house will ultimately fall, and the phrase "white privilege", regardless of the user's intent, is offensive to most white people and thus divisive. The potential collapse is just accelerated.
I believe God is withdrawing His restraining and protective hand. He is allowing the consequences of our sin to take their course. We are seeing and experiencing the destruction of relationships, marriages, cities and our nation. I believe it is inevitable.Herron2 said:No doubt. Combine that with ongoing human sacrifice in the name of "choice" (i.e. utter selfishness), and the present level of violence and meanness should surprise no one. I suspect the fruit will get even worse, but God still cares and can still intervene if he chooses to do so. At the very least, we can ask God to change hearts and minds (including our own) to love and protect our fellow humans regardless of physical, emotional or mental development and attributes.Osodecentx said:I agree. If America's original sin is slavery, then we are reaping the fruit ... again.Herron2 said:
Simply put, a divided house will ultimately fall, and the phrase "white privilege", regardless of the user's intent, is offensive to most white people and thus divisive. The potential collapse is just accelerated.
Your problem is you "think something provocative is needed". You should be careful what you wish for. I foresee an entirely justifiable backlash.George Truett said:This is well said, but I don't agree. The term "white privilege" is offensive because white people don't want to believe they have it. True, they work hard, but they still enjoy a privileged place vis a vie people of color.Herron2 said:Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Wow! So much that is so well expressed! Well done sir!
Without discussing all of your points, I do want to reiterate your mention of the offensive and divisive phrase "white privilege." Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are white and have worked and continue to work very hard to have attained what little they have. They/we did not come from wealthy families and when others call them/us "privileged", they/we can often, naturally, feel insulted.
While most, if not all, of us would agree that it is much easier to be white than black in this country and would like to see equal opportunity for equal merit regardless of skin color, few of us, like so many black people or other minorities, feel like we are a part of some privileged class that never had to work hard or face any adversity.
So when the phrase "white privilege" is, at best, carelessly or foolishly (on its face it's offensive to many hard working, white Americans) thrown around, the natural result is anger and defensiveness. While this may not be the intended result, it is the understandable and predictable result for those who feel like their efforts are being ridiculed simply because of their skin color. The phrase is foolishness, if not incendiary, and should be dropped.
I suspect no good will come from the repeated beating/shaming of white people with this phrase. What little good may result, I fear will be far outweighed by the unnecessary resentment and defensiveness being instilled in many of the hard working, average, angry and well armed white masses. While I'm not describing myself necessarily (I'm fortunate enough to somewhat understand that I've been forgiven immeasurably, and, thus, should go and do likewise) I'm not so sure my acquaintances are so enlightened or fortunate.
To summarize, the phrase "white privilege" is inherently offensive to many, if not most, white people, and the net result as measured by racial unity will likely be negative. While I do not suggest that the phrase should be banned or censored, I would simply suggest that more consideration be given to phraseology. In other words, if your goal is racial equality, then being a little more descriptive of historical and current racial inequities (not the patently offensive "you're white, thus, you're privileged" (and, thus, patently absurd, if you are attempting to accomplish any meaningful change)). Quite simply, point out the disparities without engaging in broad brush insulting of the hard work of the "majority".
P.S. - It's my understanding that people who currently live at the U.S. poverty level are still within the top 10% wealth level in this world. If we self-implode over destructive phrases like white privilege, should we expect any mercy when those who view us (all of us) as "America Privileged" (or whatever) move in to harvest whatever remains?
I come from "mill people." They worked in Southern cotton mills. Their lives were difficult and they worked hard. But they had much more than blacks who lived in their communities. They had better access to medical care, their kids went to better schools, etc., etc.
I know it's upsetting to many white people, but in this moment, I think something provocative is needed to get people to open their eyes and see something they've not seen. I don't think "Black disadvantage" communicates the situation as well.
I think Dr. Livingstone put it really well. We whites swim in our privilege without being aware of it. We're becoming more aware and that's a good thing. But we have a long way to go.
If trillions of dollars, endless programs, job employment and education discrimination against white males, and endless media support can't bring about "leveling" the field between blacks and whites...then we need to admit this experiment has failed.bear2be2 said:We clearly haven't achieved equality despite our best legislative efforts. To ignore that fact is to ignore reality.Carlos Safety said:
We are either going to be equal before the law or we are not? Which do want: equal or not? The not involves nonsense like privilege and intersectionality. Equality excludes these silly notions.
And frankly, to think that a handful of law changes and a few decades of time would undo centuries of systemic oppression is pretty naive.
George Truett said:This is well said, but I don't agree. The term "white privilege" is offensive because white people don't want to believe they have it. True, they work hard, but they still enjoy a privileged place vis a vie people of color.Herron2 said:Pablo Fanque said:
Watch the whole video before anyone goes completely ballistic. Of course there is truth in the OP - the quotes are accurate for the most part. But much of the OP is overwrought hysteria based on cherry-picked quotes and mischaracterization.
Here's what I, a white male who votes Republican, take from statements like Greg Garrett's: I walk through the world each day not really thinking about the fact that I am white. When I walk into H-E-B, I'm thinking about my grocery needs, and not really thinking about being white. Same with driving on Hwy 84 through Woodway - I'm thinking about a lot of things, but "I'm white" isn't one of them (though I usually AM thinking about keeping my speed down to about 5-10 MPH over the speed limit).
Yet there are numerous black people who say that, when out in public, they are conscious of their skin color. A black person at H-E-B is thinking about his grocery needs AND about the fact that he is black. Having seen who gets pulled over in Woodway, I can't imagine a black person driving through there who isn't thinking "I'm black - better obey every rule."
And this rings true to me. When I meet a white person, I don't immediately note "Oh, he's a white guy." I look at other things, but "white" isn't one of them. Now, I look at the same sorts of things as well when meeting a black person, but I assure you that one of the first things that pops into my brain is "Oh, this is a black guy."
The term "white privilege" is intentionally provocative, making it ineffective in getting the most intransigent whites to admit to the concept the phrase seeks to describe. Perhaps it would be easier to get conservative white guys to admit that "black disadvantage" exists. Either way, the point is much the same as Greg Garrett's, even if it is phrased in less-woke lingo - there is a net disadvantage in today's America to being black. If you don't think so, then ask yourself if you'd like to be black instead of white. Most likely, either your answer is no, or you're lying to yourself.
Admitting that these kinds of things are real is NOT the same as embracing a left-wing political agenda. But conservatives will get nowhere in stopping the absurd woke progressivism if they can't even acknowledge that being black is a disadvantage in our society.
Wow! So much that is so well expressed! Well done sir!
Without discussing all of your points, I do want to reiterate your mention of the offensive and divisive phrase "white privilege." Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are white and have worked and continue to work very hard to have attained what little they have. They/we did not come from wealthy families and when others call them/us "privileged", they/we can often, naturally, feel insulted.
While most, if not all, of us would agree that it is much easier to be white than black in this country and would like to see equal opportunity for equal merit regardless of skin color, few of us, like so many black people or other minorities, feel like we are a part of some privileged class that never had to work hard or face any adversity.
So when the phrase "white privilege" is, at best, carelessly or foolishly (on its face it's offensive to many hard working, white Americans) thrown around, the natural result is anger and defensiveness. While this may not be the intended result, it is the understandable and predictable result for those who feel like their efforts are being ridiculed simply because of their skin color. The phrase is foolishness, if not incendiary, and should be dropped.
I suspect no good will come from the repeated beating/shaming of white people with this phrase. What little good may result, I fear will be far outweighed by the unnecessary resentment and defensiveness being instilled in many of the hard working, average, angry and well armed white masses. While I'm not describing myself necessarily (I'm fortunate enough to somewhat understand that I've been forgiven immeasurably, and, thus, should go and do likewise) I'm not so sure my acquaintances are so enlightened or fortunate.
To summarize, the phrase "white privilege" is inherently offensive to many, if not most, white people, and the net result as measured by racial unity will likely be negative. While I do not suggest that the phrase should be banned or censored, I would simply suggest that more consideration be given to phraseology. In other words, if your goal is racial equality, then being a little more descriptive of historical and current racial inequities (not the patently offensive "you're white, thus, you're privileged" (and, thus, patently absurd, if you are attempting to accomplish any meaningful change)). Quite simply, point out the disparities without engaging in broad brush insulting of the hard work of the "majority".
P.S. - It's my understanding that people who currently live at the U.S. poverty level are still within the top 10% wealth level in this world. If we self-implode over destructive phrases like white privilege, should we expect any mercy when those who view us (all of us) as "America Privileged" (or whatever) move in to harvest whatever remains?
I come from "mill people." They worked in Southern cotton mills. Their lives were difficult and they worked hard. But they had much more than blacks who lived in their communities. They had better access to medical care, their kids went to better schools, etc., etc.
I know it's upsetting to many white people, but in this moment, I think something provocative is needed to get people to open their eyes and see something they've not seen. I don't think "Black disadvantage" communicates the situation as well.
I think Dr. Livingstone put it really well. We whites swim in our privilege without being aware of it. We're becoming more aware and that's a good thing. But we have a long way to go.
Open your wallet. It is coming.nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
They'll want you to wear black face to hide your whiteness?nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
What do you think about renaming Baylor? R. E. B. Baylor participated in the Alabama Creek Indian Campaign, and the Battle of Plum Creek near Lockhart, under the command of Edward Burleson.SIC EM 94 said:
Do we know if Livingstone's family tree includes any slave owners or Confederates? If so, it's time for her to go!
TexasScientist said:What do you think about renaming Baylor? R. E. B. Baylor participated in the Alabama Creek Indian Campaign, and the Battle of Plum Creek near Lockhart, under the command of Edward Burleson.SIC EM 94 said:
Do we know if Livingstone's family tree includes any slave owners or Confederates? If so, it's time for her to go!
nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
The notion of white privilege is both fictional and extraordinarily racist. Racial sin, racial victimization and racial accountability are pure evil. Anyone who advocates it is equally evil.bear2be2 said:nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
I think the idea is that if you can see and acknowledge where your privilege exists, you'll start to more easily see where others' doesn't and stop ignoring/denying the existence of problems that black people have been telling us for years are problems.
One of the biggest takeaways I've had from this period in our history is that black people are looking for white allies to help them convince other white people that they're not making these issues up. And it's not just radical, militant BLM types who are asking for this. It's the people in our communities that we interact with regularly. Our black friends and neighbors are telling us they're dealing with these things and we haven't done a very good job of listening -- largely because our experiences haven't matched theirs.
So to me, that's the next step. Once we've acknowledged that inequality still exists in the treatment of whites and blacks in our society, we can try to help others see this and understand that a more just society that truly treats everyone as equals is better for everybody.
How's it fictional and racist to acknowledge that your life is different than mine and has never been impacted by your skin color?Bearitto said:The notion of white privilege is both fictional and extraordinarily racist. Racial sin, racial victimization and racial accountability are pure evil. Anyone who advocates it is equally evil.bear2be2 said:nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
I think the idea is that if you can see and acknowledge where your privilege exists, you'll start to more easily see where others' doesn't and stop ignoring/denying the existence of problems that black people have been telling us for years are problems.
One of the biggest takeaways I've had from this period in our history is that black people are looking for white allies to help them convince other white people that they're not making these issues up. And it's not just radical, militant BLM types who are asking for this. It's the people in our communities that we interact with regularly. Our black friends and neighbors are telling us they're dealing with these things and we haven't done a very good job of listening -- largely because our experiences haven't matched theirs.
So to me, that's the next step. Once we've acknowledged that inequality still exists in the treatment of whites and blacks in our society, we can try to help others see this and understand that a more just society that truly treats everyone as equals is better for everybody.
Because lives of the same skin color are different also?Shippou said:How's it fictional and racist to acknowledge that your life is different than mine and has never been impacted by your skin color?Bearitto said:The notion of white privilege is both fictional and extraordinarily racist. Racial sin, racial victimization and racial accountability are pure evil. Anyone who advocates it is equally evil.bear2be2 said:nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
I think the idea is that if you can see and acknowledge where your privilege exists, you'll start to more easily see where others' doesn't and stop ignoring/denying the existence of problems that black people have been telling us for years are problems.
One of the biggest takeaways I've had from this period in our history is that black people are looking for white allies to help them convince other white people that they're not making these issues up. And it's not just radical, militant BLM types who are asking for this. It's the people in our communities that we interact with regularly. Our black friends and neighbors are telling us they're dealing with these things and we haven't done a very good job of listening -- largely because our experiences haven't matched theirs.
So to me, that's the next step. Once we've acknowledged that inequality still exists in the treatment of whites and blacks in our society, we can try to help others see this and understand that a more just society that truly treats everyone as equals is better for everybody.
If we played semantics and called the concept "Black Disadvantage" are you offended still and unable to acknowledge the existence of the concept?ATL Bear said:Because lives of the same skin color are different also?Shippou said:How's it fictional and racist to acknowledge that your life is different than mine and has never been impacted by your skin color?Bearitto said:The notion of white privilege is both fictional and extraordinarily racist. Racial sin, racial victimization and racial accountability are pure evil. Anyone who advocates it is equally evil.bear2be2 said:nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
I think the idea is that if you can see and acknowledge where your privilege exists, you'll start to more easily see where others' doesn't and stop ignoring/denying the existence of problems that black people have been telling us for years are problems.
One of the biggest takeaways I've had from this period in our history is that black people are looking for white allies to help them convince other white people that they're not making these issues up. And it's not just radical, militant BLM types who are asking for this. It's the people in our communities that we interact with regularly. Our black friends and neighbors are telling us they're dealing with these things and we haven't done a very good job of listening -- largely because our experiences haven't matched theirs.
So to me, that's the next step. Once we've acknowledged that inequality still exists in the treatment of whites and blacks in our society, we can try to help others see this and understand that a more just society that truly treats everyone as equals is better for everybody.
I'm not offended because it's all semantics. Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter, Blue Lives Matter, White Privilege, Black Disadvantage, sea of whiteness, etc. Call me a pragmatist that would rather deal in quantifiable issues, not sloganism. Especially sloganism that attempts to group diverse segments of the population under an umbrella only defined by skin pigment. Let's deal in issues not emotion, especially those meant to evoke racist or racialist angst.PartyBear said:If we played semantics and called the concept "Black Disadvantage" are you offended still and unable to acknowledge the existence of the concept?ATL Bear said:Because lives of the same skin color are different also?Shippou said:How's it fictional and racist to acknowledge that your life is different than mine and has never been impacted by your skin color?Bearitto said:The notion of white privilege is both fictional and extraordinarily racist. Racial sin, racial victimization and racial accountability are pure evil. Anyone who advocates it is equally evil.bear2be2 said:nein51 said:
Let's just say that white privilege exists, it's a thing, I acknowledge it and I can get 10 of my friends to acknowledge it and they can get 10 of their friends to acknowledge it...we will all hold hands and loudly and proudly say we are privileged...now what or better stated, so what?
I see so many arguments for "white people just need to acknowledge their privilege"...ok, done, so what do you want next?
I think the idea is that if you can see and acknowledge where your privilege exists, you'll start to more easily see where others' doesn't and stop ignoring/denying the existence of problems that black people have been telling us for years are problems.
One of the biggest takeaways I've had from this period in our history is that black people are looking for white allies to help them convince other white people that they're not making these issues up. And it's not just radical, militant BLM types who are asking for this. It's the people in our communities that we interact with regularly. Our black friends and neighbors are telling us they're dealing with these things and we haven't done a very good job of listening -- largely because our experiences haven't matched theirs.
So to me, that's the next step. Once we've acknowledged that inequality still exists in the treatment of whites and blacks in our society, we can try to help others see this and understand that a more just society that truly treats everyone as equals is better for everybody.