Saving Biden from debates with Trump

2,416 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by riflebear
Osodecentx
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It is starting. A NYTimes columnist is leading off in the effort to save Biden. I suppose the Biden campaign feels they have it sowed up (I agree), so why take the chance.

I worry about Joe Biden debating Donald Trump. He should do it only under two conditions. Otherwise, he's giving Trump unfair advantages.
First, Biden should declare that he will take part in a debate only if Trump releases his tax returns for 2016 through 2018. Biden has already done so, and they are on his website. Trump must, too. No more gifting Trump something he can attack while hiding his own questionable finances.
And second, Biden should insist that a real-time fact-checking team approved by both candidates be hired by the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates and that 10 minutes before the scheduled conclusion of the debate this team report on any misleading statements, phony numbers or outright lies either candidate had uttered. That way no one in that massive television audience can go away easily misled.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/opinion/biden-trump-debate.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
STxBear81
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either way Biden loses. His mind is dementia'd out...he spells cat with a K
Booray
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Anybody who thinks Donald Trump isn't hiding all sorts of stuff by refusing to release his taxes isn't going to change their mind if the returns are released.

And a candidate for POTUS should be able to fact check his opponent.

I am all for Joe debating so he can put the only reason to vote against him-"the dementia Joe"
story line-to rest. If he does, he will bury Trump in the election.
PartyBear
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I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.

All they do is project on behalf of Trump who is clearly out of his mind. Among many things. He claimed in October to be the real King of the Jews (apparently to accept that one has to accept Jesus of Nazareth was a fraud) and yet that was supported here. Just the other night he claimed the Vietnam War was schwift and schweepingly and called Desert Storm.
Osodecentx
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PartyBear said:

I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.
I'm pretty sure that you'll be voting for Biden regardless of Joe's debate performance.

Do you want Joe to debate Trump or find a way to not debate?
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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No way Biden makes it to the debate stage. You know, the deadly coronavirus. It is not safe to go outside. All in the name of public safety, or course!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
ScruffyD
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seems fair.

or assuming this isn't an in-person debate, they should each be asked the same question, unable to hear the other's answer. let america decide on how they answer. I'd be fine with that, and so should those who think Biden is losing his cognition.
Booray
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ScruffyD said:

seems fair.

or assuming this isn't an in-person debate, they should each be asked the same question, unable to hear the other's answer. let america decide on how they answer. I'd be fine with that, and so should those who think Biden is losing his cognition.
That is a really good idea for at least one of the debates.
riflebear
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Democrats as usual trying to change the rules when they know they would lose fighting fairly.

Biden has already agreed to 3 debates. Why is the NYTimes scared?

Should Biden release his mental checkups he says he has all the time w/ his Dr?
Should Biden release his dealings w/ Flynn & Russiagate and how he was involved?
Should Biden release his dealings w/ Ukraine & China?

Funny thing is he shouldn't have to because the press should have asked him about all of these things, but it's hard to get to him because he's hiding out in his basement. It's amazing Obama and Biden haven't been asked about any of this recently.
ScruffyD
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Should trump release his tests for STDs
Should he even release his annual physicals
Should he explain why he was whisked to the hospital 6 months ago
Should Trump release every woman who has ever worked for him from their NDAs
Should Trump allow NBC to release his Apprentice tapes

Should each candidate walk down a flight of stairs
Should each candidate drink from a glass of water


Again, should Trump release his tax returns as Biden has done
Should Trump respond to whether or not Russia was paying bounties on our troops, and if so, what was done? And if he isn't, then fully say it didnt happen and get the head of the CIA to agree

I could go on and on
Oldbear83
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How about both candidates stand at podiums in front of the public, in person, and are asked the same questions which were provided to each campaign a week ahead of the debate to avoid 'gotcha' tricks, and the public gets to see them in a genuine apples-to-apples comparison.

No tricks, no special effects, no excuses.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
ScruffyD
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because most folks don't want to hear an answer that was put together by a team of consultants. we want to hear from the candidate themselves.

riflebear
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ScruffyD said:

Should trump release his tests for STDs
Should he even release his annual physicals
Should he explain why he was whisked to the hospital 6 months ago
Should Trump release every woman who has ever worked for him from their NDAs
Should Trump allow NBC to release his Apprentice tapes

Should each candidate walk down a flight of stairs
Should each candidate drink from a glass of water


Again, should Trump release his tax returns as Biden has done
Should Trump respond to whether or not Russia was paying bounties on our troops, and if so, what was done? And if he isn't, then fully say it didnt happen and get the head of the CIA to agree

I could go on and on
Trump isn't the one (nor anyone in the GOP) who is threatening certain things before the debates that were already agreed to.

Trump's Dr has released the info every year. But when a candidate can't finish a 2-3 min conversation w/out a major screw up almost every time he talks and shows signs of dementia and admits he's seen a Dr several times for those symptoms then he should be asked about it.

I would never demand any of that from Biden before setting a Debate w/ the GOP but both candidates should be required to answer any question asked of them.

A 10yr old would know an article like this was written because they are scared about what might happen w/ Biden being exposed. Trust me, I'm not looking forward to Trump making a fool of himself either during the debates and exaggerating everything w/ his crazy talk but everyone is used to that and knows that's how he's talked his whole life. Biden's a completely different person than he was just 5yrs ago. That's concerning even if he was a Wal Mart greeter.
PartyBear
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Osodecentx said:

PartyBear said:

I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.
I'm pretty sure that you'll be voting for Biden regardless of Joe's debate performance.

Do you want Joe to debate Trump or find a way to not debate?
Of course I want him to debate. But fact checking is good as well because Trump will do nothing but lie.
ScruffyD
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Trump is the one who is the only candidate to never release tax returns.

I think it is a great idea. Release all of them, or no debate.

Not because Biden has lost a step (he has), but because he doesn't need to debate Trump. And that is Trump's fault. It is not Biden's fault that Trump is self imploding and literally soiling his adult diaper with every passing day.
Oldbear83
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ScruffyD said:

because most folks don't want to hear an answer that was put together by a team of consultants. we want to hear from the candidate themselves.


And using my model, we would.

Your suggestion - that Trump should first concede to Biden's demands - is laughable in the context of a fair and open debate.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Friscobear
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PartyBear said:

Osodecentx said:

PartyBear said:

I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.
I'm pretty sure that you'll be voting for Biden regardless of Joe's debate performance.

Do you want Joe to debate Trump or find a way to not debate?
Of course I want him to debate. But fact checking is good as well because Trump will do nothing but lie.
The candidates need to be able to fact check each other, just as they always have.
ScruffyD
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your model suggests the campaigns would have the questions for a week and the candidates wont poll test and scrub the answers for the week before the election?
riflebear
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ScruffyD said:

Trump is the one who is the only candidate to never release tax returns.

I think it is a great idea. Release all of them, or no debate.

Not because Biden has lost a step (he has), but because he doesn't need to debate Trump. And that is Trump's fault. It is not Biden's fault that Trump is self imploding and literally soiling his adult diaper with every passing day.
So you are fine w/ a Presidential candidate not having to answer any tough questions?

Amazing that libs are OK w/ voting for a coward and the party of cowards now. Unreal
Canada2017
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In order to cover Biden's dementia the format of the debates will be exceptionally structured.

There will be little to no real debate .

Merely spewing a few ( short ) campaign slogans .

All this Biden hiding is similar to Woodrow Wilson's 2nd term after he suffered a debilitating stroke .

Wilson was basically hidden from the public and for all practical purposes his wife made the decisions.
Booray
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Oldbear83 said:

ScruffyD said:

because most folks don't want to hear an answer that was put together by a team of consultants. we want to hear from the candidate themselves.


And using my model, we would.

Your suggestion - that Trump should first concede to Biden's demands - is laughable in the context of a fair and open debate.


Giving the candidate the question a week in advance and you would get the candidate's real thoughts? Right, sure that makes perfect sense.
ScruffyD
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so you are fine with one not releasing their tax returns? of course the supreme court rules on this tomorrow so this could all be for naught.

this has been done before btw. Rick Perry would not debate Bill White unless he released his. no debate. Texans didnt seem to mind.
Oldbear83
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ScruffyD said:

your model suggests the campaigns would have the questions for a week and the candidates wont poll test and scrub the answers for the week before the election?
I suggested that because of what we already know. We know for example that CNN gave Hillary some debate questions in advance. Since there's no way to prevent that from happening again, let's be even-handed and give both sides the same questions.

You seem to think the public can be bamboozled by a clever phrase, but to me it does the opposite - it gives each side their best clear opportunity to give good, solid answers.

Biden and Trump at their best, instead of seeing who can be tripped up.

Also, I happen to think the public is pretty good at sniffing out BS. If you have a week to come up with a solid answer and all you can do is throw out something a committee or focus group recommended, I think that will end badly for the candidate.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
ScruffyD
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this is how it is every year. the campaigns spend months bickering over format and we are left with one that provides little insight at all.
Oldbear83
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ScruffyD said:

this is how it is every year. the campaigns spend months bickering over format and we are left with one that provides little insight at all.
You are very cynical, sir.

Have a little faith.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Whiskey Pete
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Booray said:

Anybody who thinks Donald Trump isn't hiding all sorts of stuff by refusing to release his taxes isn't going to change their mind if the returns are released.

And a candidate for POTUS should be able to fact check his opponent.

I am all for Joe debating so he can put the only reason to vote against him-"the dementia Joe"
story line-to rest. If he does, he will bury Trump in the election.
Dementia Joe will get destroyed. They'll make ludicrous demands so they can back out and blame Trump - like they always do.
Whiskey Pete
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Osodecentx said:

PartyBear said:

I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.
I'm pretty sure that you'll be voting for Biden regardless of Joe's debate performance.

Do you want Joe to debate Trump or find a way to not debate?
He would love to keep hidin' biden, I'm sure.

If Dementia Joe appeared on stage to debate Trump, he would accomplish nothing than other securing his own defeat. Dems know it, they won't admit and they'll try to keep him locked in a basement.
Whiskey Pete
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ScruffyD said:

seems fair.

or assuming this isn't an in-person debate, they should each be asked the same question, unable to hear the other's answer. let america decide on how they answer. I'd be fine with that, and so should those who think Biden is losing his cognition.
As long as the dem nominee doesn't get questions ahead of time - again
Booray
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HashTag said:

Booray said:

Anybody who thinks Donald Trump isn't hiding all sorts of stuff by refusing to release his taxes isn't going to change their mind if the returns are released.

And a candidate for POTUS should be able to fact check his opponent.

I am all for Joe debating so he can put the only reason to vote against him-"the dementia Joe"
story line-to rest. If he does, he will bury Trump in the election.
Dementia Joe will get destroyed. They'll make ludicrous demands so they can back out and blame Trump - like they always do.
Unlikely. I watched Biden debate Bernie one-on-one at the tail end of the primary campaign. Lasted several hours and Bernie is a good debater. Joe was fine. He does not have dementia or any serious cognitive issue and the independents need to see that.

And I will guarantee the debates will go forward.
Osodecentx
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PartyBear said:

Osodecentx said:

PartyBear said:

I'm pretty sure people here will not change their mind.
I'm pretty sure that you'll be voting for Biden regardless of Joe's debate performance.

Do you want Joe to debate Trump or find a way to not debate?
Of course I want him to debate. But fact checking is good as well because Trump will do nothing but lie.
Candy Crowley fact checking Mitt on Russia being our main adversary?
Whiskey Pete
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riflebear said:

ScruffyD said:

Should trump release his tests for STDs
Should he even release his annual physicals
Should he explain why he was whisked to the hospital 6 months ago
Should Trump release every woman who has ever worked for him from their NDAs
Should Trump allow NBC to release his Apprentice tapes

Should each candidate walk down a flight of stairs
Should each candidate drink from a glass of water


Again, should Trump release his tax returns as Biden has done
Should Trump respond to whether or not Russia was paying bounties on our troops, and if so, what was done? And if he isn't, then fully say it didnt happen and get the head of the CIA to agree

I could go on and on
Trump isn't the one (nor anyone in the GOP) who is threatening certain things before the debates that were already agreed to.

Trump's Dr has released the info every year. But when a candidate can't finish a 2-3 min conversation w/out a major screw up almost every time he talks and shows signs of dementia and admits he's seen a Dr several times for those symptoms then he should be asked about it.

I would never demand any of that from Biden before setting a Debate w/ the GOP but both candidates should be required to answer any question asked of them.

A 10yr old would know an article like this was written because they are scared about what might happen w/ Biden being exposed. Trust me, I'm not looking forward to Trump making a fool of himself either during the debates and exaggerating everything w/ his crazy talk but everyone is used to that and knows that's how he's talked his whole life. Biden's a completely different person than he was just 5yrs ago. That's concerning even if he was a Wal Mart greeter.
Biden's mental capacity is more relevant to the job than Trump's tax returns. Dems know, they are just to grab at anything everything they think they can use to hit Trump over the head with and use for deflection
Osodecentx
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ScruffyD said:

your model suggests the campaigns would have the questions for a week and the candidates wont poll test and scrub the answers for the week before the election?
Like Donna Brazille giving questions to Hillary?
Canada2017
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ScruffyD said:

this is how it is every year. the campaigns spend months bickering over format and we are left with one that provides little insight at all.



True

It's all about 'packaging' the presidential hopeful.

The media is going to set the bar so low for Biden ...that as long as he doesn't fall asleep or spit on himself he will be declared to have 'exceeded expectations'.

Trump will go in overconfident and under prepared ....and blow his last opportunity to be re elected .
ScruffyD
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That is not the premise or the point. If you think a debate where candidates are given questions a week ahead of time is going to provide insight into anything, then just base your decision off who has the best ads.

Whatever Donna Brazile did clearly didnt help Clinton. Doesnt make it right but that isn't the point or really the conversation. I think she gave her potential topics in a town hall, not actual questions. Still, it is wrong to do but it is beside the point of whether an entire debate be held around questions the campaign has had for a week.
Friscobear
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Booray said:

HashTag said:

Booray said:

Anybody who thinks Donald Trump isn't hiding all sorts of stuff by refusing to release his taxes isn't going to change their mind if the returns are released.

And a candidate for POTUS should be able to fact check his opponent.

I am all for Joe debating so he can put the only reason to vote against him-"the dementia Joe"
story line-to rest. If he does, he will bury Trump in the election.
Dementia Joe will get destroyed. They'll make ludicrous demands so they can back out and blame Trump - like they always do.
Unlikely. I watched Biden debate Bernie one-on-one at the tail end of the primary campaign. Lasted several hours and Bernie is a good debater. Joe was fine. He does not have dementia or any serious cognitive issue and the independents need to see that.

And I will guarantee the debates will go forward.
Early onset dementia patients have good and bad days.

I sincerely hope that Biden does not have it. I wouldn't wish that hell on anyone, but I do see similarities in some of his appearances that remind me of my father who is going through this.
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