Why the Christian Church should support Black Lives Matter

10,269 Views | 145 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by cinque
cinque
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It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
FWBear
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Christianity and Marxism don't mix well.
Username checks out
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FWBear said:

Christianity and Marxism don't mix well.


How do you define those two words?
4th and Inches
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cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
BUBeliever
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BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
Canada2017
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cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.


Christians shouldn't engage in your brand of hypocrisy, racism and violence .

Nor are Christians obligated to aid those who wish to burn Churches, attack parishioners or corrupt our beliefs .
wuzzybear
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Username checks out said:

FWBear said:

Christianity and Marxism don't mix well.


How do you define those two words?
Christianity = Bible believing, God fearing believers that Jesus is and was God in the flesh!
Maxism = I can't do s-h-i-t on my own so I need daddy to babysit my bank account. TRANSLATION: Marxism cares little for your input, but they care a helluva lot about your output because everybody must maximize their output so they can throw in the pot and distribute equal parcels to all citizens.

FOR FIRST GRADERS:
Christianity = Good thang
Marxism = Bad thang

Furthermore, Christianity is not of this world except for a very very short time here. Marxism, like Satanism, says this is all there is to it so knock yourself out, but do it MY way.

I think your retort is ******ed. Christianity and Marxism are not mere words. The better question would be put in the form of a direction such as: Compare and contrast Christianity and Marxism from the point of view of their roles in governance."
midgett
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Black lives, yes.

BLM, no.
ATL Bear
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Christ is about forgiveness and mercy. BLM is here to settle scores for various interests. I see little compatibility there.
4th and Inches
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Under marxism - From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. That sounds great except that an authoritarian body is dictating to whom my resources are given and corruption is often rampant leaving those in need without.

Under christianity, I am the one dictating where my resources are given. Giving is an act of worship.

How many countries have you heard of over the years where aid never got to the people, the military or the govt kept it...

Matthew 6:1-4 Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.


Bruin
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I don't think Christ was about burning and looting innocent homes and businesses.
Forest Bueller
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BUBeliever said:

BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
1) "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement "
2) "We believe that prisons, police and all other institutions that inflict violence on Black people must be abolished..."
3)""We are anti-capitalist."
4)"We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice [aka abortion] that gives us autonomy over our bodies"
5)"We foster a queer-affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking."

They are a mess,and have duped a bunch of decent people into supporting their mess.
cinque
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FWBear said:

Christianity and Marxism don't mix well.
Suppose it were true that BLM was committed to a thoroughgoing Neo-Marxism. (it's not, btw) From that it does not follow that we should not support BLM, it only follows that Christians should not, accept whole cloth BLM. But why would a Christian want to do that in the first place?
cinque
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BUBeliever said:

BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
True, but allow me to address claims often made here that movements such as BLM are not worthy of Christian support since they often include policies that contradict Christian teaching. Some iterations of #MeToo, for example, are expressly committed to abortion rights. Some iterations of BLM reject the enemy-love tradition embodied by Martin Luther King, Jr. but, again, why should this undercut Christian support for these movements? Is there a principle that one cannot support any movement that includes policies with which one disagrees? Most conservative Christians who object to BLM on such grounds do not similarly object to supporting a national political party, even though there is no national political party whose policy commitments are consistent with Christian teaching.
SIC EM 94
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cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.


Of all the Bullsh*t you have ever posted, this one has to be the most pathetic. No church should EVER support a racist organization like BLM. America is becoming more and more aware of what Black Lives Matter really is, and stands for, and it has been exposed for all the world to see.
bear2be2
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Gruvin said:

cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
If someone at your church were to offer up a prayer request for his/her sick child, would you tell him/her that you'll pray for all children? Would doing so make you an insensitive *******?

I understand being skeptical of/rejecting the Black Lives Matter movement and some of the more radical elements of its mission. That is, without question, a political movement. But the inability of so many in this country, mostly white evangelicals, to affirm the general sentiment "Black lives matter" without reflexively offering up the insensitive and dismissive "All lives matter" response, is a perfect illustration of why so many in that community feel like they aren't valued.

If someone you care about tells you they're hurting, you would listen to them and do what you could to help. That your first instinct here is to dismiss these issues as imaginary is proof that you (the general plural, not personal) don't really care about that community or its problems.
cinque
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Let me agree with you for a minute and concede that there are causes for Christian ambivalence about BLM, but I believe the ambivalence should point in a different direction. I believe that the existence of BLM should make us ambivalent about our claims to be Christian. Following Martin Luther King, Jr., we suspect that BLM is alive in the world today because we have not been Christian enough.
Mothra
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cinque said:

BUBeliever said:

BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
True, but allow me to address claims often made here that movements such as BLM are not worthy of Christian support since they often include policies that contradict Christian teaching. Some iterations of #MeToo, for example, are expressly committed to abortion rights. Some iterations of BLM reject the enemy-love tradition embodied by Martin Luther King, Jr. but, again, why should this undercut Christian support for these movements? Is there a principle that one cannot support any movement that includes policies with which one disagrees? Most conservative Christians who object to BLM on such grounds do not similarly object to supporting a national political party, even though there is no national political party whose policy commitments are consistent with Christian teaching.


Not a very strong argument for Christian support for BLM, though I appreciate the thoughtful way you've attempted to approach it (a refreshing surprise). While I believe the church should avoid taking any political positions or expressing support for any political party - even those closely aligned with the church - when a political movement has goals that are antithetical to Christianity's core principles, the church should be especially careful about throwing support behind the organization. Doing so will ruin its witness in the same way that Robert Jeffers full throated support of Trump has ruined its witness, as I've heard you often complain.

As a poster alluded to above, I think the church can (and has) shown support and solidarity with black people during this time. I know mine has. One can do that without endorsing BLM.
4th and Inches
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bear2be2 said:

Gruvin said:

cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
If someone at your church were to offer up a prayer request for his/her sick child, would you tell him/her that you'll pray for all children? Would doing so make you an insensitive *******?

I understand being skeptical of/rejecting the Black Lives Matter movement and some of the more radical elements of its mission. That is, without question, a political movement. But the inability of so many in this country, mostly white evangelicals, to affirm the general sentiment "Black lives matter" without reflexively offering up the insensitive and dismissive "All lives matter" response, is a perfect illustration of why so many in that community feel like they aren't valued.

If someone you care about tells you they're hurting, you would listen to them and do what you could to help. That your first instinct here is to dismiss these issues as imaginary is proof that you (the general plural, not personal) don't really care about that community or its problems.
read what I wrote again. I clearly stated that black lives matter, the needs of the individuals who are hurting are not being dismissed

My statement that all lives matter equally is a christian principle, not a dismissal of need.

I do not but I could get offended by constant attacks i get on this site based on my conservative views of how govt should operate. I beleive that local people know their needs best and that local communities and local charitiable organizations should lead in taking care of the needs of the people vs a govt mandate.
whiterock
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cinque said:

I believe that the existence of BLM should make us ambivalent about our claims to be Christian. Following Martin Luther King, Jr., we suspect that BLM is alive in the world today because we have not been Christian enough.
how exactly would adopting structurally divisive marxist dialects on race as punishment for insufficient application of Christian principles to daily living help us get back to those Christian principles from which we have strayed?

You are engaging in circular logic which does not complete the circle.
cinque
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Mothra said:

cinque said:

BUBeliever said:

BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
True, but allow me to address claims often made here that movements such as BLM are not worthy of Christian support since they often include policies that contradict Christian teaching. Some iterations of #MeToo, for example, are expressly committed to abortion rights. Some iterations of BLM reject the enemy-love tradition embodied by Martin Luther King, Jr. but, again, why should this undercut Christian support for these movements? Is there a principle that one cannot support any movement that includes policies with which one disagrees? Most conservative Christians who object to BLM on such grounds do not similarly object to supporting a national political party, even though there is no national political party whose policy commitments are consistent with Christian teaching.


Not a very strong argument for Christian support for BLM, though I appreciate the thoughtful way you've attempted to approach it (a refreshing surprise). While I believe the church should avoid taking any political positions or expressing support for any political party - even those closely aligned with the church - when a political movement has goals that are antithetical to Christianity's core principles, the church should be especially careful about throwing support behind the organization. Doing so will ruin its witness in the same way that Robert Jeffers full throated support of Trump has ruined its witness, as I've heard you often complain.

As a poster alluded to above, I think the church can (and has) shown support and solidarity with black people during this time. I know mine has. One can do that without endorsing BLM.

I disagree. Evangelical churches have been provably absent from efforts to eradicate oppressive systems within and outside of the Church. When Jesus preached In his inaugural hometown sermon, He recalled the words from the prophet Isaiah, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to bring the gospel to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free" (Luke 4:18; citing Isaiah 61:1 and 58:6). The Gospel that Jesus came preaching was in fact inseparable from concerns about "social justice" which is to say, about care for the poor, for the prisoner, for the disabled, for all those who find themselves oppressed by society's laws and institutions. Is there a different, better Gospel than the one Jesus preached?
cinque
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Gruvin said:

bear2be2 said:

Gruvin said:

cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
If someone at your church were to offer up a prayer request for his/her sick child, would you tell him/her that you'll pray for all children? Would doing so make you an insensitive *******?

I understand being skeptical of/rejecting the Black Lives Matter movement and some of the more radical elements of its mission. That is, without question, a political movement. But the inability of so many in this country, mostly white evangelicals, to affirm the general sentiment "Black lives matter" without reflexively offering up the insensitive and dismissive "All lives matter" response, is a perfect illustration of why so many in that community feel like they aren't valued.

If someone you care about tells you they're hurting, you would listen to them and do what you could to help. That your first instinct here is to dismiss these issues as imaginary is proof that you (the general plural, not personal) don't really care about that community or its problems.
read what I wrote again. I clearly stated that black lives matter, the needs of the individuals who are hurting are not being dismissed

My statement that all lives matter equally is a christian principle, not a dismissal of need.

I do not but I could get offended by constant attacks i get on this site based on my conservative views of how govt should operate. I beleive that local people know their needs best and that local communities and local charitiable organizations should lead in taking care of the needs of the people vs a govt mandate.
The "All Lives Matter" rejoinder to BLM misses the point so egregiously it appears to be disingenuous. Of course all lives matter, but BLM attempts to draw attention to the fact that black people in this country have been historically and systematically excluded from that "all." BLM makes the point that, although all lives matter in theory, black lives do not appear actually to matter as much as white lives do in the United States
Mothra
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cinque said:

Mothra said:

cinque said:

BUBeliever said:

BLM is not solely about black lives mattering, otherwise you might have a leg to stand on. The Church cannot and should not support an organization that supports Marxism and does not support the nuclear family.
True, but allow me to address claims often made here that movements such as BLM are not worthy of Christian support since they often include policies that contradict Christian teaching. Some iterations of #MeToo, for example, are expressly committed to abortion rights. Some iterations of BLM reject the enemy-love tradition embodied by Martin Luther King, Jr. but, again, why should this undercut Christian support for these movements? Is there a principle that one cannot support any movement that includes policies with which one disagrees? Most conservative Christians who object to BLM on such grounds do not similarly object to supporting a national political party, even though there is no national political party whose policy commitments are consistent with Christian teaching.


Not a very strong argument for Christian support for BLM, though I appreciate the thoughtful way you've attempted to approach it (a refreshing surprise). While I believe the church should avoid taking any political positions or expressing support for any political party - even those closely aligned with the church - when a political movement has goals that are antithetical to Christianity's core principles, the church should be especially careful about throwing support behind the organization. Doing so will ruin its witness in the same way that Robert Jeffers full throated support of Trump has ruined its witness, as I've heard you often complain.

As a poster alluded to above, I think the church can (and has) shown support and solidarity with black people during this time. I know mine has. One can do that without endorsing BLM.

I disagree. Evangelical churches have been provably absent from efforts to eradicate oppressive systems within and outside of the Church. When Jesus preached In his inaugural hometown sermon, He recalled the words from the prophet Isaiah, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to bring the gospel to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free" (Luke 4:18; citing Isaiah 61:1 and 58:6). The Gospel that Jesus came preaching was in fact inseparable from concerns about "social justice" which is to say, about care for the poor, for the prisoner, for the disabled, for all those who find themselves oppressed by society's laws and institutions. Is there a different, better Gospel than the one Jesus preached?
Evangelical churches cannot be defined and stereotyped as a homogeneous group. Having attended a number over the years - including one that was predominantly black - I have found they are quite diverse in both their beliefs and mission.

But even if one accepts your premise that the "evangelical church" have been "absent" from discussions such as these (a premise that is "provably" wrong), that still does not justify support for a political organization that supports and has as its goal objectives that are antithetical to the core tenets of the Christian faith. If BLM were merely advocating for the poor, the prisoner, and the disabled, that would be one thing, but we both know that's not true.

And this is where your logic collapses.
cinque
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It is precisely your framing of the BLM issue that leads me to suspect that what is at work here is pure ideology. Throughout this thread, you have voiced a set of claims expressed not for reasons having to do with truth, but rather for pragmatic reasons, namely, to obscure what matters. Here's why I'm suspicious of your claims:

If you are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect that Christians would be engaged in BLM-type efforts plus. In other words, one would expect that religious critics would put so-called "Social Justice Warriors" to shame by the intensity of their justice pursuit. I can only speak anecdotally, but nothing like this appears to be the case in the majority of churches I've observed and in the people who attend them.
Second, and relatedly, if objectors such as yourself are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect you to develop even more specific and thorough proposals from the more adequate perspective you purport to occupy. Instead, I find ready desperate and often shabby critiques with little effort to explain exactly the difference that the Gospel or Jesus or the church would make to the quest for social justice.
Mothra
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cinque said:

It is precisely your framing of the BLM issue that leads me to suspect that what is at work here is pure ideology. Throughout this thread, you have voiced a set of claims expressed not for reasons having to do with truth, but rather for pragmatic reasons, namely, to obscure what matters. Here's why I'm suspicious of your claims:

If you are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect that Christians would be engaged in BLM-type efforts plus. In other words, one would expect that religious critics would put so-called "Social Justice Warriors" to shame by the intensity of their justice pursuit. I can only speak anecdotally, but nothing like this appears to be the case in the majority of churches I've observed and in the people who attend them.
Second, and relatedly, if objectors such as yourself are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect you to develop even more specific and thorough proposals from the more adequate perspective you purport to occupy. Instead, I find ready desperate and often shabby critiques with little effort to explain exactly the difference that the Gospel or Jesus or the church would make to the quest for social justice.
You don't seem to be following my argument. I am not saying BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice (I state no position on that issue, as I suspect we define "justice" quite differently), I am saying it has objectives antithetical to Christianity and Christ's teaching in particular that make it impossible for the evangelical church (if we are to define it as some monolithic group, which it's not) to come out in support of it. We've discussed them on this thread, and you have already acknowledged them. What you have NOT done is gone a step further and make a logical argument for why the evangelical church should support such an organization with such antithetical views to Christianity.

Moreover, I think you misunderstand our calling as Christians. Christians are not to be Social Justice Warriors. To the contrary, we are called to be fully-devoted followers of Christ, and to tell others about him. Now, does that often times coincide with taking moral stances on issues of justice? Of course. But our objective is not heaven on earth. Our home is in a very different place.
GoneGirl
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Baylor desperately needs to offer a class in Marxism.

Even if the only reason is so all of you folks will understand that BLM--a protest movement born out of disproportionate police violence toward minorities in this country and inequities in the criminal justice system, is not marxism.

Which right-wing news site/source is promoting the idea that BLM protesters or the BLM movement = marxism?
fadskier
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I don't know a single Christian who thinks that a black life matters less than anyone else.

In fact, all Christians I know believe that ALL black lives matter....aborted babies, unchecked black-on-black crime...
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
fadskier
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Jinx 2 said:

Baylor desperately needs to offer a class in Marxism.

Even if the only reason is so all of you folks will understand that BLM--a protest movement born out of disproportionate police violence toward minorities in this country and inequities in the criminal justice system, is not marxism.

Which right-wing news site/source is promoting the idea that BLM protesters or the BLM movement = marxism?
More whites shot by police than blacks...and if you'll check the most violence towards a race is committed by the same race.

Get some facts, princess.
Salute the Marines - Joe Biden
4th and Inches
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Jinx 2 said:

Baylor desperately needs to offer a class in Marxism.

Even if the only reason is so all of you folks will understand that BLM--a protest movement born out of disproportionate police violence toward minorities in this country and inequities in the criminal justice system, is not marxism.

Which right-wing news site/source is promoting the idea that BLM protesters or the BLM movement = marxism?
the ones that played the video where the leaders of BLM said they were trained Marxists...
cinque
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Mothra said:

cinque said:

It is precisely your framing of the BLM issue that leads me to suspect that what is at work here is pure ideology. Throughout this thread, you have voiced a set of claims expressed not for reasons having to do with truth, but rather for pragmatic reasons, namely, to obscure what matters. Here's why I'm suspicious of your claims:

If you are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect that Christians would be engaged in BLM-type efforts plus. In other words, one would expect that religious critics would put so-called "Social Justice Warriors" to shame by the intensity of their justice pursuit. I can only speak anecdotally, but nothing like this appears to be the case in the majority of churches I've observed and in the people who attend them.
Second, and relatedly, if objectors such as yourself are concerned that BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice, one might expect you to develop even more specific and thorough proposals from the more adequate perspective you purport to occupy. Instead, I find ready desperate and often shabby critiques with little effort to explain exactly the difference that the Gospel or Jesus or the church would make to the quest for social justice.
You don't seem to be following my argument. I am not saying BLM is not sufficiently concerned with justice (I state no position on that issue, as I suspect we define "justice" quite differently), I am saying it has objectives antithetical to Christianity and Christ's teaching in particular that make it impossible for the evangelical church (if we are to define it as some monolithic group, which it's not) to come out in support of it. We've discussed them on this thread, and you have already acknowledged them. What you have NOT done is gone a step further and make a logical argument for why the evangelical church should support such an organization with such antithetical views to Christianity.

Moreover, I think you misunderstand our calling as Christians. Christians are not to be Social Justice Warriors. To the contrary, we are called to be fully-devoted followers of Christ, and to tell others about him. Now, does that often times coincide with taking moral stances on issues of justice? Of course. But our objective is not heaven on earth. Our home is in a very different place.

Martin Luther King, Jr., made a similar argument to yours in his sermon, "How Should a Christian View Communism?" While King states upfront that Christianity and communism are incompatible insofar as communism is based on a materialistic, humanistic, relativistic, nationalistic and atheistic view of life King's treatment of communism offers a fitting analogy for how the church today may be a faithful ally of a secular movement for social change. The example of communism serves to show that justice movements such as BLM present even fewer philosophical obstacles for the church's engagement.

While it may be true that I would not want to give sweeping, uncritical support to BLM, it is true in this moment that BLM offers a prophetic voice that calls the church to a renewed sense of vocation and mission. More important than the question of where, exactly, BLM goes wrong from the Christian perspective, is the need to uncover how BLM exposes the failure of the church to perform the Gospel, and what kind of allies should Christians be to BLM.
4th and Inches
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cinque said:

Gruvin said:

bear2be2 said:

Gruvin said:

cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
If someone at your church were to offer up a prayer request for his/her sick child, would you tell him/her that you'll pray for all children? Would doing so make you an insensitive *******?

I understand being skeptical of/rejecting the Black Lives Matter movement and some of the more radical elements of its mission. That is, without question, a political movement. But the inability of so many in this country, mostly white evangelicals, to affirm the general sentiment "Black lives matter" without reflexively offering up the insensitive and dismissive "All lives matter" response, is a perfect illustration of why so many in that community feel like they aren't valued.

If someone you care about tells you they're hurting, you would listen to them and do what you could to help. That your first instinct here is to dismiss these issues as imaginary is proof that you (the general plural, not personal) don't really care about that community or its problems.
read what I wrote again. I clearly stated that black lives matter, the needs of the individuals who are hurting are not being dismissed

My statement that all lives matter equally is a christian principle, not a dismissal of need.

I do not but I could get offended by constant attacks i get on this site based on my conservative views of how govt should operate. I beleive that local people know their needs best and that local communities and local charitiable organizations should lead in taking care of the needs of the people vs a govt mandate.
The "All Lives Matter" rejoinder to BLM misses the point so egregiously it appears to be disingenuous. Of course all lives matter, but BLM attempts to draw attention to the fact that black people in this country have been historically and systematically excluded from that "all." BLM makes the point that, although all lives matter in theory, black lives do not appear actually to matter as much as white lives do in the United States
Since the written word is only 7 percent of communication, it should be hard to form an opinion based on the few words I wrote and understand my meaning behind those words, especially when statements are generalized or possibly ambiguous. It was you who created the bias where an individual life is being left out and then proceeded to blast me for your assumption. Your accusations are misplaced and not everyone is out to get you...

Again, it is a minor subset of a population(blacks that have been treated unfairly) but absolutely they should be listened to as well as respected.

To say that all blacks everywhere in the US are left out is disingenuous. To say that whites often dismiss police brutality and other mistreatment to people of color is also an ignorant assumption.

Again, all lives matter is a christian principle, not a dismissal.



wuzzybear
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bear2be2 said:

Gruvin said:

cinque said:

It is right and just to do so. BLM is rightly sceptical of a church that does not clearly see and say that black lives matter. And in this respect, BLM prophesies against the church, for the church, which is for the world.

The church must recover its revolutionary witness that God in Christ has come to overthrow every earthly kingdom. Christians should never be surprised to find that the world and church are in need of repentance and reform. God's restorative action is needed every day in every way. The church should accordingly welcome the witness of BLM and other social movements that put a spotlight on truths the church has forgotten, neglected and, in some cases, outright denied.
it is right and fair for christians to support that all lives matter equally including blacks that have been mistreated while in police custody. No one person on this earth is more deserving of Gods mercy and understanding than another...

The church does not need to be involved with supporting any political action group. The church is a sanctuary of all without regard to sex, race, gender, or creed... to align itself with an individual political ideology is to alienate those in need which is against the teaching of the church.

We christians stumble in many ways but the defining message is to love God and love people. We christians cannot endorse violence against our brothers and sisters or our houses of worship.
If someone at your church were to offer up a prayer request for his/her sick child, would you tell him/her that you'll pray for all children? Would doing so make you an insensitive *******?

I understand being skeptical of/rejecting the Black Lives Matter movement and some of the more radical elements of its mission. That is, without question, a political movement. But the inability of so many in this country, mostly white evangelicals, to affirm the general sentiment "Black lives matter" without reflexively offering up the insensitive and dismissive "All lives matter" response, is a perfect illustration of why so many in that community feel like they aren't valued.

If someone you care about tells you they're hurting, you would listen to them and do what you could to help. That your first instinct here is to dismiss these issues as imaginary is proof that you (the general plural, not personal) don't really care about that community or its problems.
Huh? I cannot find the word "imaginary" anywhere above nor do I see an inkling of a first instinct. Still the same ole bear2be2...
ATL Bear
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Jinx 2 said:

Baylor desperately needs to offer a class in Marxism.

Even if the only reason is so all of you folks will understand that BLM--a protest movement born out of disproportionate police violence toward minorities in this country and inequities in the criminal justice system, is not marxism.

Which right-wing news site/source is promoting the idea that BLM protesters or the BLM movement = marxism?
Agree that's where they started. It's where it's gone from there that is the issue. The beauty of MLK's freedom movement is he was able to avoid being co-opted by the many other movements swirling around that time with similar equality objectives, but different ideology.

Looking at the protests and the wide range of messages coming out shows that BLM is not avoiding that, and is becoming a vehicle to piggy back a wide range of leftist ideals. I believe blacks are actually getting frustrated by this as it's distracting from the original purpose that has/had broad support, including from myself (I'm still in the has category).

And yes, there are some clear Marxist concepts being pushed and used in this counter movement (not just BLM).
JXL
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Jinx 2 said:

Baylor desperately needs to offer a class in Marxism.

Even if the only reason is so all of you folks will understand that BLM--a protest movement born out of disproportionate police violence toward minorities in this country and inequities in the criminal justice system, is not marxism.

Which right-wing news site/source is promoting the idea that BLM protesters or the BLM movement = marxism?


The co-founder of BLM described herself as a "trained Marxist."

Is she a right-wing source? Was she lying about her own beliefs?

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
STxBear81
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I'm in the All Lives Matter boat. Not discounting that black lives matter. I oppose the destruction of our country and disrespect shown to authority. The way that BLM goes about its business and wanting to defund Police is absurd. As Christians we should love everyone as ourself. I for one do not love what is going on in our country. I for one have trouble loving the hate.
 
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