Trump rally in Georgia

5,027 Views | 97 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Whiskey Pete
Oldbear83
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George Truett said:

Osodecentx said:

We would not have 3 vaccines to distribute but for Trump. The vaccine development and distribution will be a positive legacy.

A Clinton Administration couldn't have pulled it off. Viva Warp Speed
This isn't at all provable.

Overall Trump has done and is doing a terrible job.
BS just more TDS

Waco1947
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Johnny Bear said:

Waco1947 said:

J.R. said:

Looks like butt hurt baby trumps is coming out of his hole. Honest question. Is this a good idea or not for him to be stumping for the 2 run off candidates? I'd like the Repubs to win both, but they must have one. I'd also tell you, Biden is secretly hoping Repubs hold the Senate as to give him cover from the left loons in his party.
80,000,000 are loons?

LOL! Do you seriously think somebody like dementia Joe actually got anything close to 80,000,000 votes legitimately?
Of course
Waco1947
Waco1947
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J.B.Katz said:

Rawhide said:

blackie said:

Rawhide said:

Gruvin said:

HuMcK said:

Well you guys keep telling me how anomaly is an indicator of fraud, and Trump seems to have overshot his polling mark by a signifigant margin, so...there must have been a lot of fraud on the GOP side to try and catch up to Biden's level of support.
great! Audit everything... lets find all the fraud on both sides if there is any...
I'm all for auditing every election all the time.

We need to audit even Texas, Florida, Ohio, Alabama, etc....

What's wrong with making sure that every legal vote that should've been counted was counted. If the liberals are 100% convinced this election was on the up and up and Biden trounced Trump, then they shouldn't have an issue with it.
My response is ONLY referencing the bolded above........but in order to do what you suggest how much do want taxes raised in order to do what you suggest? The costs to states and local governments would dwarf many things in their strained budgets as they are.

Taxes wouldn't need to go up if we could get them to cut spending... I know, I know, I know.. we're dealing with politicians and they all suck.


More than 80 million voters don't have a lot of patience with the Republican game of run up the deficit while we're in office by lowering taxes and not spending and then make the Democrats pay for it when they're in office by refusing to raise taxes but insisting that we reduce spending to pay for the deficit they created.

Dejavu all over again.
Waco1947
Sam Lowry
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Osodecentx said:

We would not have 3 vaccines to distribute but for Trump. The vaccine development and distribution will be a positive legacy.

A Clinton Administration couldn't have pulled it off. Viva Warp Speed
Why not?
Sam Lowry
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Gruvin said:

Rawhide said:

blackie said:

Rawhide said:

Gruvin said:

HuMcK said:

Well you guys keep telling me how anomaly is an indicator of fraud, and Trump seems to have overshot his polling mark by a signifigant margin, so...there must have been a lot of fraud on the GOP side to try and catch up to Biden's level of support.
great! Audit everything... lets find all the fraud on both sides if there is any...
I'm all for auditing every election all the time.

We need to audit even Texas, Florida, Ohio, Alabama, etc....

What's wrong with making sure that every legal vote that should've been counted was counted. If the liberals are 100% convinced this election was on the up and up and Biden trounced Trump, then they shouldn't have an issue with it.
My response is ONLY referencing the bolded above........but in order to do what you suggest how much do want taxes raised in order to do what you suggest? The costs to states and local governments would dwarf many things in their strained budgets as they are.

Taxes wouldn't need to go up if we could get them to cut spending... I know, I know, I know.. we're dealing with politicians and they all suck.


Finally, somebody give a clean plain language answer to the public as to why we have vote machines that give any data after a decimal point?!


Voting machines are sold in markets all around the country and the world. They feature various options that local officials are responsible for toggling on or off according to the rules in their jurisdictions. Weighted voting has been used or considered in some places in the US and internationally. For example, California has proposed giving minors a fraction of a vote. Some non-public organizations, like universities and labor unions, also use fractional voting.
Dnicknames
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Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
J.B.Katz
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Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

His effort on the virus is a positive legacy

Trump deserves a lot of credit
Vaccines were a global response.

Pfizer vaccine was developed by a husband/wife couple of Turkish immigrants to Germany. Trump hates immigrants (except for his wife and her chain-migration family).

Astrazenca vaccine was developed at Oxford in the U.K. Bet they love Trump taking credit for their work.

Moderna developed in the U.S. Maybe helped by Warp Speed.

J&J's vaccine tests are on hold.

Trump clearly does not deserve credit for Covid response. No coordinated federal response. Terrible outbreak now. High case and per capita death rates compared with the rest of the planet. Trump and other Republicans exposed themselves by basically saying the people who died of Covid--lots were in nursing homes, higher incidence among blacks and Hispanics--were disposable and would have died anyway.

Local papers are now running the obits of healthcare workers in their 50s and 60s, both men and women. Trump screwed this up and encouraged science denial. Lots of threads on this site still denying how bad the pandemic is. If ever there was a time to encourage people to work together, this pandemic was it. Trump did the opposite. He's mean and divisive and a bad leader who deserved to lose the election and is now being indulged in a huge public tantrum by one of our leading political parties.

Credit for the vaccine development goes to scientists who developed the vaccine. Republicans hate scientists. Amazing to me that Trump would try to take credit for their work and that Republicans would think he had a right to.
Pandemic was unavoidable once the Chinese lost containment .

Biden. Reagan. Bush. Obama. Clinton or Kennedy could not have done any better.
A ccordinated federal response could have meant fewer cases and allowed us to to a better job of managing risks on things that need to be open--schools and day cares for essential workers, grocery stores, hospitals, clinics and doc offices--and things that don't--like churches and bars.

Trump also set a bad example re: masks. Lots of people still don't think they work.

He also politicized a problem that's not polical--a virus. If he takes undeserved credit, there will be some people who won't take it because they dont trust it because they dont trust Trump, who has lied about Covid, about his response and is now lying about the election results.

Trump either seems to have total credibility--people credit him for developing vaccines developed by the very scientists he has publicly scorned for months--with people or he has no credibility with people. I'm in the even a blind pig finds an acorn camp; Trump can be right, but if he is, it's probably accidental and it somehow serves him.
Oldbear83
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Congrats. Where others have produced word salad, your post qualifies as word sewage.
Canada2017
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J.B.Katz said:

Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

His effort on the virus is a positive legacy

Trump deserves a lot of credit
Vaccines were a global response.

Pfizer vaccine was developed by a husband/wife couple of Turkish immigrants to Germany. Trump hates immigrants (except for his wife and her chain-migration family).

Astrazenca vaccine was developed at Oxford in the U.K. Bet they love Trump taking credit for their work.

Moderna developed in the U.S. Maybe helped by Warp Speed.

J&J's vaccine tests are on hold.

Trump clearly does not deserve credit for Covid response. No coordinated federal response. Terrible outbreak now. High case and per capita death rates compared with the rest of the planet. Trump and other Republicans exposed themselves by basically saying the people who died of Covid--lots were in nursing homes, higher incidence among blacks and Hispanics--were disposable and would have died anyway.

Local papers are now running the obits of healthcare workers in their 50s and 60s, both men and women. Trump screwed this up and encouraged science denial. Lots of threads on this site still denying how bad the pandemic is. If ever there was a time to encourage people to work together, this pandemic was it. Trump did the opposite. He's mean and divisive and a bad leader who deserved to lose the election and is now being indulged in a huge public tantrum by one of our leading political parties.

Credit for the vaccine development goes to scientists who developed the vaccine. Republicans hate scientists. Amazing to me that Trump would try to take credit for their work and that Republicans would think he had a right to.
Pandemic was unavoidable once the Chinese lost containment .

Biden. Reagan. Bush. Obama. Clinton or Kennedy could not have done any better.
A ccordinated federal response could have meant fewer cases and allowed us to to a better job of managing risks on things that need to be open--schools and day cares for essential workers, grocery stores, hospitals, clinics and doc offices--and things that don't--like churches and bars.

Trump also set a bad example re: masks. Lots of people still don't think they work.

He also politicized a problem that's not polical--a virus. If he takes undeserved credit, there will be some people who won't take it because they dont trust it because they dont trust Trump, who has lied about Covid, about his response and is now lying about the election results.

Trump either seems to have total credibility--people credit him for developing vaccines developed by the very scientists he has publicly scorned for months--with people or he has no credibility with people. I'm in the even a blind pig finds an acorn camp; Trump can be right, but if he is, it's probably accidental and it somehow serves him.
None of which alters the realities of our fat, undisciplined , selfish population or the dynamics of this particular novel virus .

The entire government and media politicized this pandemic from day one........and it cost thousands of lives.

An obvious example is Cuomo; who should be an article of shame for what he has done and for what he has failed to do.

Instead, Cuomo is glorified.



J.B.Katz
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Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

His effort on the virus is a positive legacy

Trump deserves a lot of credit
Vaccines were a global response.

Pfizer vaccine was developed by a husband/wife couple of Turkish immigrants to Germany. Trump hates immigrants (except for his wife and her chain-migration family).

Astrazenca vaccine was developed at Oxford in the U.K. Bet they love Trump taking credit for their work.

Moderna developed in the U.S. Maybe helped by Warp Speed.

J&J's vaccine tests are on hold.

Trump clearly does not deserve credit for Covid response. No coordinated federal response. Terrible outbreak now. High case and per capita death rates compared with the rest of the planet. Trump and other Republicans exposed themselves by basically saying the people who died of Covid--lots were in nursing homes, higher incidence among blacks and Hispanics--were disposable and would have died anyway.

Local papers are now running the obits of healthcare workers in their 50s and 60s, both men and women. Trump screwed this up and encouraged science denial. Lots of threads on this site still denying how bad the pandemic is. If ever there was a time to encourage people to work together, this pandemic was it. Trump did the opposite. He's mean and divisive and a bad leader who deserved to lose the election and is now being indulged in a huge public tantrum by one of our leading political parties.

Credit for the vaccine development goes to scientists who developed the vaccine. Republicans hate scientists. Amazing to me that Trump would try to take credit for their work and that Republicans would think he had a right to.
Pandemic was unavoidable once the Chinese lost containment .

Biden. Reagan. Bush. Obama. Clinton or Kennedy could not have done any better.
A ccordinated federal response could have meant fewer cases and allowed us to to a better job of managing risks on things that need to be open--schools and day cares for essential workers, grocery stores, hospitals, clinics and doc offices--and things that don't--like churches and bars.

Trump also set a bad example re: masks. Lots of people still don't think they work.

He also politicized a problem that's not polical--a virus. If he takes undeserved credit, there will be some people who won't take it because they dont trust it because they dont trust Trump, who has lied about Covid, about his response and is now lying about the election results.

Trump either seems to have total credibility--people credit him for developing vaccines developed by the very scientists he has publicly scorned for months--with people or he has no credibility with people. I'm in the even a blind pig finds an acorn camp; Trump can be right, but if he is, it's probably accidental and it somehow serves him.
None of which alters the realities of our fat, undisciplined , selfish population or the dynamics of this particular novel virus .

The entire government and media politicized this pandemic from day one........and it cost thousands of lives.

An obvious example is Cuomo; who should be an article of shame for what he has done and for what he has failed to do.

Instead, Cuomo is glorified.




Cuomo and Trump made the same mistake: They insisted on being the face of virus communications instead of backing away and letting their capable staff of med professionals do their job.

Who's the governor of Washington state? I don't know, but he or she backed off and let the med pros handle it after having one of the early, scary big outbreaks. Now WA is near the bottom of deaths per 100K population--35--while New York is near the top.

States where the govt listened to public health officials and acted accordingly had better outcomes--at least the ones that weren't hit hard early because they were international hubs, like NYC, NJ, MA and CT.

States where the govt / governor politicized the virus are now having worse outcomes. Those states listened to Trump.

Viruses aren't political. They just want to spread. North and South Dakota are learning that lesson.

One map I want to see is how states that expanded Medicaid that didn't get the first hard wave of the virus, like New York, CA, WA and MA, have fared.

Here's the map showing states with the highest rates of death per 100K from the start to present: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100k
Osodecentx
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George Truett said:

Osodecentx said:

We would not have 3 vaccines to distribute but for Trump. The vaccine development and distribution will be a positive legacy.

A Clinton Administration couldn't have pulled it off. Viva Warp Speed
This isn't at all provable.

Overall Trump has done and is doing a terrible job.
What is the usual timeline for the approval and distribution of a new vaccine?
Osodecentx
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Sam Lowry said:

Osodecentx said:

We would not have 3 vaccines to distribute but for Trump. The vaccine development and distribution will be a positive legacy.

A Clinton Administration couldn't have pulled it off. Viva Warp Speed
Why not?
Hillary loves red tape. Dems hate big Pharma and they wouldn't have streamlined the process.
Osodecentx
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Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?
Dnicknames
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Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
Oldbear83
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"It's an irrelevant question."

No, it's salient.
Dnicknames
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Oldbear83 said:

"It's an irrelevant question."

No, it's salient.


It goes down a false equivalence rabbit hole, but I'll play.

Moderna finished in two days with no political involvement. Full stop.

Pfizer is working with BioNTech in Germany. The IP is German.

Pfizer received $0 from operation Wharp Speed. $0.

Pfizer received a $2 billion contract in July after the development of the vaccine was finished. There was no prior government involvement until July's distribution contract, and Trump lying about his involvement.

Want to know how that is true?

The $2B contract is for 100 million doses contingent on FDA approval. The government also paid an option fee to buy 500 million more doses. No Wharp Speed participants received options or FDA contingencies.

Or you could just believe Trump's own DHHS. Natalie Balassarre, spokeswoman for DHHS, put out these direct quotes in a press release:

"When the U.S. government does not fund the creation of any of this intellectual property, as is the case with Pfizer, the government is not entitled to any rights to the company's IP. The U.S. government did not fund any of Pfizer's R&D used to create their mRNA vaccine."
-direct quote

Osodecentx
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Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859

J.B.Katz
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Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859


So how does this credit Trump?

Every country on the planet wants to fix this. Scientists in Germany, the U.K. and the U.S. have developed vaccines. Possibly China and Russia, too, although I wouldn't trust 'em.

What Trump deserves credit for is our abysmal COVID response. Republicans will go down in history as the pro-death party. Throw old people, diabetics and people with other conditions that make them more vulnerable to Covid under the bus; they should just all take one for the team. And this from people who won't wear a mask.
Oldbear83
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You should hate less, and post less when spewing hate.
Osodecentx
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J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859


So how does this credit Trump?

Every country on the planet wants to fix this. Scientists in Germany, the U.K. and the U.S. have developed vaccines. Possibly China and Russia, too, although I wouldn't trust 'em.

What Trump deserves credit for is our abysmal COVID response. Republicans will go down in history as the pro-death party. Throw old people, diabetics and people with other conditions that make them more vulnerable to Covid under the bus; they should just all take one for the team. And this from people who won't wear a mask.
This isn't true
4th and Inches
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Sam Lowry said:

Gruvin said:

Rawhide said:

blackie said:

Rawhide said:

Gruvin said:

HuMcK said:

Well you guys keep telling me how anomaly is an indicator of fraud, and Trump seems to have overshot his polling mark by a signifigant margin, so...there must have been a lot of fraud on the GOP side to try and catch up to Biden's level of support.
great! Audit everything... lets find all the fraud on both sides if there is any...
I'm all for auditing every election all the time.

We need to audit even Texas, Florida, Ohio, Alabama, etc....

What's wrong with making sure that every legal vote that should've been counted was counted. If the liberals are 100% convinced this election was on the up and up and Biden trounced Trump, then they shouldn't have an issue with it.
My response is ONLY referencing the bolded above........but in order to do what you suggest how much do want taxes raised in order to do what you suggest? The costs to states and local governments would dwarf many things in their strained budgets as they are.

Taxes wouldn't need to go up if we could get them to cut spending... I know, I know, I know.. we're dealing with politicians and they all suck.


Finally, somebody give a clean plain language answer to the public as to why we have vote machines that give any data after a decimal point?!


Voting machines are sold in markets all around the country and the world. They feature various options that local officials are responsible for toggling on or off according to the rules in their jurisdictions. Weighted voting has been used or considered in some places in the US and internationally. For example, California has proposed giving minors a fraction of a vote. Some non-public organizations, like universities and labor unions, also use fractional voting.
oh great, now explain why it was actually used during our US elections this year according to the data stream.
J.B.Katz
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Osodecentx said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859


So how does this credit Trump?

Every country on the planet wants to fix this. Scientists in Germany, the U.K. and the U.S. have developed vaccines. Possibly China and Russia, too, although I wouldn't trust 'em.

What Trump deserves credit for is our abysmal COVID response. Republicans will go down in history as the pro-death party. Throw old people, diabetics and people with other conditions that make them more vulnerable to Covid under the bus; they should just all take one for the team. And this from people who won't wear a mask.
This isn't true
What isn't true? Trump's failure to respond? Or Republicand going down in history as the pro-death party?

I wish I had a dollar for the times I've heard that preserving the economy short term is more important than preserving people's lives or that these people were fixing to die anyway or it was their own fault for being fat.

What's disheartening is the near silence of the ones with common sense who are smart and decent while Trump turns like a cornered animal on anybody who is a convenient target, makes a fool out of himself and Maria Bart, and plays golf. We need a viable conservative party. Trump is not leading that. he's got a cult of personality that will be less and less attractive as his losses pile up.
Dnicknames
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Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859




I agree with everything you posted. Moderna solving CoVid in two days is one of the great accomplishments in my lifetime.

The thread was discussing Trump getting credit for the quick vaccine response speed, and my perception is the argument is a false equivalency.

Trump wasn't involved until he thought he could take credit for other scientists work/success. And Trump knew he was lying about Pfizer, which indeed gets under my skin in the depths of its sleaziness.
Osodecentx
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Normal time for approval is years.

This has been done in less than a year. Never has happened before.

Makes me think your derogation of Trump's accomplishment is political. I'll stick with science
Canada2017
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J.B.Katz said:

Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Canada2017 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

His effort on the virus is a positive legacy

Trump deserves a lot of credit
Vaccines were a global response.

Pfizer vaccine was developed by a husband/wife couple of Turkish immigrants to Germany. Trump hates immigrants (except for his wife and her chain-migration family).

Astrazenca vaccine was developed at Oxford in the U.K. Bet they love Trump taking credit for their work.

Moderna developed in the U.S. Maybe helped by Warp Speed.

J&J's vaccine tests are on hold.

Trump clearly does not deserve credit for Covid response. No coordinated federal response. Terrible outbreak now. High case and per capita death rates compared with the rest of the planet. Trump and other Republicans exposed themselves by basically saying the people who died of Covid--lots were in nursing homes, higher incidence among blacks and Hispanics--were disposable and would have died anyway.

Local papers are now running the obits of healthcare workers in their 50s and 60s, both men and women. Trump screwed this up and encouraged science denial. Lots of threads on this site still denying how bad the pandemic is. If ever there was a time to encourage people to work together, this pandemic was it. Trump did the opposite. He's mean and divisive and a bad leader who deserved to lose the election and is now being indulged in a huge public tantrum by one of our leading political parties.

Credit for the vaccine development goes to scientists who developed the vaccine. Republicans hate scientists. Amazing to me that Trump would try to take credit for their work and that Republicans would think he had a right to.
Pandemic was unavoidable once the Chinese lost containment .

Biden. Reagan. Bush. Obama. Clinton or Kennedy could not have done any better.
A ccordinated federal response could have meant fewer cases and allowed us to to a better job of managing risks on things that need to be open--schools and day cares for essential workers, grocery stores, hospitals, clinics and doc offices--and things that don't--like churches and bars.

Trump also set a bad example re: masks. Lots of people still don't think they work.

He also politicized a problem that's not polical--a virus. If he takes undeserved credit, there will be some people who won't take it because they dont trust it because they dont trust Trump, who has lied about Covid, about his response and is now lying about the election results.

Trump either seems to have total credibility--people credit him for developing vaccines developed by the very scientists he has publicly scorned for months--with people or he has no credibility with people. I'm in the even a blind pig finds an acorn camp; Trump can be right, but if he is, it's probably accidental and it somehow serves him.
None of which alters the realities of our fat, undisciplined , selfish population or the dynamics of this particular novel virus .

The entire government and media politicized this pandemic from day one........and it cost thousands of lives.

An obvious example is Cuomo; who should be an article of shame for what he has done and for what he has failed to do.

Instead, Cuomo is glorified.




Cuomo and Trump made the same mistake: They insisted on being the face of virus communications instead of backing away and letting their capable staff of med professionals do their job.

Who's the governor of Washington state? I don't know, but he or she backed off and let the med pros handle it after having one of the early, scary big outbreaks. Now WA is near the bottom of deaths per 100K population--35--while New York is near the top.

States where the govt listened to public health officials and acted accordingly had better outcomes--at least the ones that weren't hit hard early because they were international hubs, like NYC, NJ, MA and CT.

States where the govt / governor politicized the virus are now having worse outcomes. Those states listened to Trump.

Viruses aren't political. They just want to spread. North and South Dakota are learning that lesson.

One map I want to see is how states that expanded Medicaid that didn't get the first hard wave of the virus, like New York, CA, WA and MA, have fared.

Here's the map showing states with the highest rates of death per 100K from the start to present: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_deathsper100k
These numbers do not take into account Native Indian populations which novel viruses are often particularly hard on .
Canada2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Osodecentx said:

Dnicknames said:

Moderna was Trump's drug of choice, so let's say their drug is the most promising.

On January 6, Moderna CEO Stphane Bancel emailed Barney Graham, a vaccine researcher at the National Institutes of Health. Bancel then talked with Graham about developing a vaccine for the virus; Graham agreed.

On January 11, researchers from China published the genetic sequence of the coronavirus.

On January 13, Moderna's team and NIH scientists had finalized the targeted genetic sequence it would use in its vaccine. The Moderna drug was completed on January 13th and ready for trials.

Please explain how any politician could take credit here?
What is the usual time for the development and release of a vaccine for a new disease?https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/


It's an irrelevant question.

Do you think a POTUS, any POTUS and not just Trump, controls the FDA or trial phases? They do not.

The two most promising vaccines in my opinion - Pfizer and Moderna - had no involvement with Trump or his team.

A White House call two weeks ago said Pfizer was not part of Wharp Speed, and Pfizer is not bound by White House distribution plans - In reality, Pfizer can do what they want. Trump point blank lied about Pfizer.

Moderna was finished with their vaccine in two days, well before any political involvement. Trump didn't fast track a two day development, sorry.

Give Trump credit where it is due. Deregulation is a good one b/c it is quantifiable. Don't give him credit for the vaccine because he didn't do anything to get us there - the guy literally said people should consider injecting bleach and ultraviolet light into their skin; get real about this.
The speed with which researchers and pharmaceutical companies have responded to the coronavirus epidemic has been described as "unprecedented" by Dr Jerome Kim, Director-General of the International Vaccine Institute.
"When we are used to five-year time frames, to see something go into human testing on March 17 is really a remarkable thing," he told CNBC. "Does this guarantee success? Not necessarily. Vaccine development is characterised by a high failure rate often 93% between animal studies and registration of a product."
The discovery and research phase is normally two-to-five years, according to the Wellcome Trust. In total, a vaccine can take more than 10 years to fully develop and costs up to $500 million, the UK charity says.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/vaccine-development-barriers-coronavirus/

NY Times says a decade
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html

Mayo Clinic says years:
COVID-19 vaccine development timeline and distribution

The development of vaccines can take years. This is especially true when the vaccines involve new technologies that haven't been tested for safety or adapted to allow for mass production.
Why does it take so long? First, a vaccine is tested in animals to see if it works and if it's safe. This testing must follow strict lab guidelines and generally takes three to six months. The manufacturing of vaccines also must follow quality and safety practices.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vaccine/art-20484859




I agree with everything you posted. Moderna solving CoVid in two days is one of the great accomplishments in my lifetime.

The thread was discussing Trump getting credit for the quick vaccine response speed, and my perception is the argument is a false equivalency.

Trump wasn't involved until he thought he could take credit for other scientists work/success. And Trump knew he was lying about Pfizer, which indeed gets under my skin in the depths of its sleaziness.
Good grief Trump is a jerk and is on his way out.....but he definitely stream lined some processes which rapidly sped up vaccine development.

J.R.
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I do give Trump a little credit as he did push many drug makers to come up with an effective and safe vaccine. Pfizer's vaccine was invented in Germany, Astra-Zeneca was invented at Oxford. Moderna was invented in the US with US $. Pfizer and Astra-Zeneca go ZERO US money on the front end. Moderna did. It's neither here nor there, but the good news is that for whomever, (even Trump), we are getting close. We (US) will pay a **** ton to the afore mentioned Pharma companies as we should. Getting these vaccines ready in this short amount of time is just amazing. Props to everyone who had a hand in the development. Game changer.
Sam Lowry
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Gruvin said:

Sam Lowry said:

Gruvin said:

Rawhide said:

blackie said:

Rawhide said:

Gruvin said:

HuMcK said:

Well you guys keep telling me how anomaly is an indicator of fraud, and Trump seems to have overshot his polling mark by a signifigant margin, so...there must have been a lot of fraud on the GOP side to try and catch up to Biden's level of support.
great! Audit everything... lets find all the fraud on both sides if there is any...
I'm all for auditing every election all the time.

We need to audit even Texas, Florida, Ohio, Alabama, etc....

What's wrong with making sure that every legal vote that should've been counted was counted. If the liberals are 100% convinced this election was on the up and up and Biden trounced Trump, then they shouldn't have an issue with it.
My response is ONLY referencing the bolded above........but in order to do what you suggest how much do want taxes raised in order to do what you suggest? The costs to states and local governments would dwarf many things in their strained budgets as they are.

Taxes wouldn't need to go up if we could get them to cut spending... I know, I know, I know.. we're dealing with politicians and they all suck.


Finally, somebody give a clean plain language answer to the public as to why we have vote machines that give any data after a decimal point?!


Voting machines are sold in markets all around the country and the world. They feature various options that local officials are responsible for toggling on or off according to the rules in their jurisdictions. Weighted voting has been used or considered in some places in the US and internationally. For example, California has proposed giving minors a fraction of a vote. Some non-public organizations, like universities and labor unions, also use fractional voting.
oh great, now explain why it was actually used during our US elections this year according to the data stream.
I don't know that it was, but it's up to officials in every precinct to set the machines properly. Quite possibly some didn't.
Whiskey Pete
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So, what happened to the democrats and the anger about over-population and how we need to institute population control to save the planet?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/09/10/democrats_once_again_embrace_population_control_to_save_the_planet_141208.html

Wasn't so long ago.

 
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