Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. See Texas vs. California.

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

And of course that is what is occurring up here .

Business in Northern Colorado is booming .

New construction everywhere.

But for the severely limited................they would rather pretend half a million deaths have not occurred rather than miss happy hour or a football game .

Absolute insanity .

---

Do you have any evidence that playing football games led to more deaths?

Of course you don't, windbag.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

And of course that is what is occurring up here .

Business in Northern Colorado is booming .

New construction everywhere.

But for the severely limited................they would rather pretend half a million deaths have not occurred rather than miss happy hour or a football game .

Absolute insanity .

---

Do you have any evidence that playing football games led to more deaths?

Of course you don't, windbag.

---

Stadium bathrooms, concession stands , ramps, pre game and post game socializing. Right, show the specific data or it never happened.

Really think any research team had the time or resources to conduct such a specific study ? Oh, where is the 'data' on going to Fuzzies Taco's Happy Hour ? Well if no such specific study has been done it must be perfectly ok to hang out with the crowd for that 4th margarita.

THEN go back home and infect Mom and Dad .

You were posting this same stupid bull**** back in March when the death count was under 5,000. Now approaching 500,000 and you STILL haven't learned a damn thing .

Cant even imagine anyone hiring you .

---

It's pretty far fetched to suggest that 3/4 empty football stadiums' bathrooms were a super spreader event. I went to a couple of games this season, sat with a mask on outdoors, and the nearest person to me was 20 feet. I had a better chance of catching COVID at the grocery store than a football game.

BTW, all of those countries in Europe that were much more draconian than we were had around the same deaths per capita.

Bottom line is virus was going to virus. We were going to have a large number of deaths regardless. Your lockdown ideas were not feasible. But you sit there from your perch taking pot shots at everyone. Easily triggered old coot.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Will masks become the 'new normal' even after the pandemic has passed? Some Americans say so

Quote:

---

"I think we do need a new culture of masks, at least any time not feeling well, and I think masks are in and handshakes out for the indefinite future," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the C.D.C. during the Obama Administration and the president of global health initiative Resolve to Save Lives.

---

---

Sorry Doc,

But you seem a little out of bounds on this one .

---

I am curious how long you think we should continue to wear them? Once enough people are vaccinated? Or until the virus completely goes away (if ever)?

One thing is certain: CA, NY and many of the countries in Europe have proven that the shut-downs you and so many others have advocated didn't work. I hope the masks won't be another issue you were wrong about.

---

All this continuing angst about masks amazes me. Biden has signed a dozen executive orders far more troubling .

Regardless I believe mask use will be generally abandoned by most come this August.

Followed by some limited use in a few 3rd wave ( relatively minor ) hot spots next fall.

The worst is over guys. Infection numbers should continue to drop.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

bubbadog said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Will masks become the 'new normal' even after the pandemic has passed? Some Americans say so

Quote:

---

"I think we do need a new culture of masks, at least any time not feeling well, and I think masks are in and handshakes out for the indefinite future," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the C.D.C. during the Obama Administration and the president of global health initiative Resolve to Save Lives.

---

---

Sorry Doc,

But you seem a little out of bounds on this one .

---

I am curious how long you think we should continue to wear them? Once enough people are vaccinated? Or until the virus completely goes away (if ever)?

One thing is certain: CA, NY and many of the countries in Europe have proven that the shut-downs you and so many others have advocated didn't work. I hope the masks won't be another issue you were wrong about.

---

All this continuing angst about masks amazes me. Biden has signed a dozen executive orders far more troubling .

Regardless I believe mask use will be generally abandoned by most come this August.

Followed by some limited use in a few 3rd wave ( relatively minor ) hot spots next fall.

The worst is over guys. Infection numbers should continue to drop.

---

The most head-scratching thing about this whole pandemic is that some people treat mask-wearing as a hostile act. .

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing.

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't 'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. None. Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

No, I argued that your overbroad interpretation of that statute was unconstitutional.

Japan never had extreme measures in place, from what I read. They had suggestions to the public that were never enforced through threat of law. Businesses and schools generally stayed open. It was nothing like the draconian measures you desired.

Japan's success has been attributed to a number of factors not present here, including immunity to SARS viruses and genetics, as well as a less deadly strain.

---

bubbadog said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Will masks become the 'new normal' even after the pandemic has passed? Some Americans say so

Quote:

---

"I think we do need a new culture of masks, at least any time not feeling well, and I think masks are in and handshakes out for the indefinite future," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the C.D.C. during the Obama Administration and the president of global health initiative Resolve to Save Lives.

---

---

Sorry Doc,

But you seem a little out of bounds on this one .

---

I am curious how long you think we should continue to wear them? Once enough people are vaccinated? Or until the virus completely goes away (if ever)?

One thing is certain: CA, NY and many of the countries in Europe have proven that the shut-downs you and so many others have advocated didn't work. I hope the masks won't be another issue you were wrong about.

---

All this continuing angst about masks amazes me. Biden has signed a dozen executive orders far more troubling .

Regardless I believe mask use will be generally abandoned by most come this August.

Followed by some limited use in a few 3rd wave ( relatively minor ) hot spots next fall.

The worst is over guys. Infection numbers should continue to drop.

---

This is basically my expectation, too. After the pandemic dies down, there will be no more mask mandate.

The most head-scratching thing about this whole pandemic is that some people treat mask-wearing as a hostile act.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. %A0We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. %A0The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. %A0That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, %A0some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? %A0No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. %A0It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing. %A0

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. %A0And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement. %A0

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. %A0You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't %A0'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. %A0None. %A0Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. %A0One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. %A0More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. %A0But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. %A0See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. %A0There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

No, I argued that your overbroad interpretation of that statute was unconstitutional. %A0

Japan never had extreme measures in place, from what I read. %A0They had suggestions to the public that were never enforced through threat of law. %A0Businesses and schools generally stayed open. %A0It was nothing like the draconian measures you desired.

Japan's success has been attributed to a number of factors not present here, including immunity to SARS viruses and genetics, as well as a less deadly strain.

---

Those factors are speculative at best. There's no evidence of any less deadly strain.

Point is, whatever Japan's baseline vulnerability may be, fine-tuned measures can make a big difference.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. %A0We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. %A0The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. %A0That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, %A0some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? %A0No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. %A0It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing. %A0

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. %A0And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement. %A0

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. %A0You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't %A0'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. %A0None. %A0Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. %A0One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. %A0More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. %A0But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. %A0See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. %A0There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

No, I argued that your overbroad interpretation of that statute was unconstitutional. %A0

Japan never had extreme measures in place, from what I read. %A0They had suggestions to the public that were never enforced through threat of law. %A0Businesses and schools generally stayed open. %A0It was nothing like the draconian measures you desired.

Japan's success has been attributed to a number of factors not present here, including immunity to SARS viruses and genetics, as well as a less deadly strain.

---

Those factors are speculative at best. There's no evidence of any less deadly strain.

Point is, whatever Japan's baseline vulnerability may be, fine-tuned measures can make a big difference.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. %A0We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. %A0The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. %A0That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, %A0some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? %A0No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. %A0It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing. %A0

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. %A0And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement. %A0

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. %A0You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't %A0'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. %A0None. %A0Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. %A0One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. %A0More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. %A0But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. %A0See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. %A0There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

No, I argued that your overbroad interpretation of that statute was unconstitutional. %A0

Japan never had extreme measures in place, from what I read. %A0They had suggestions to the public that were never enforced through threat of law. %A0Businesses and schools generally stayed open. %A0It was nothing like the draconian measures you desired.

Japan's success has been attributed to a number of factors not present here, including immunity to SARS viruses and genetics, as well as a less deadly strain.

---

Those factors are speculative at best. There's no evidence of any less deadly strain.

Point is, whatever Japan's baseline vulnerability may be, fine-tuned measures can make a big difference.

---

No more speculative than your idea that Japan's suggestions made a big difference,%A0

And of course, the measures you proposed were not fine tuned in the least.

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

bubbadog said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Will masks become the 'new normal' even after the pandemic has passed? Some Americans say so

Quote:

---

"I think we do need a new culture of masks, at least any time not feeling well, and I think masks are in and handshakes out for the indefinite future," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the C.D.C. during the Obama Administration and the president of global health initiative Resolve to Save Lives.

---

---

Sorry Doc,

But you seem a little out of bounds on this one .

---

I am curious how long you think we should continue to wear them? Once enough people are vaccinated? Or until the virus completely goes away (if ever)?

One thing is certain: CA, NY and many of the countries in Europe have proven that the shut-downs you and so many others have advocated didn't work. I hope the masks won't be another issue you were wrong about.

---

All this continuing angst about masks amazes me. Biden has signed a dozen executive orders far more troubling .

Regardless I believe mask use will be generally abandoned by most come this August.

Followed by some limited use in a few 3rd wave ( relatively minor ) hot spots next fall.

The worst is over guys. Infection numbers should continue to drop.

---

This is basically my expectation, too. After the pandemic dies down, there will be no more mask mandate.

The most head-scratching thing about this whole pandemic is that some people treat mask-wearing as a hostile act.

---

Imagine going to a bar, club, concert etc for the rest of your life and only seeing covered faces.

Completely removing physical identities from society is not a world I want to live in.

If we remove them, we will cause another covid spike regardless of vaccines.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Unfortunately most of us must do this thing called work for a living. %A0We can't all stay holed up until c19 goes away. %A0The vast majority of people aren't as as lucky as you.

---

Our investment properties require almost daily interaction with tenants, contractors, landscapers , realtors, and title closers .

Toss in the inevitable trips to the post office, doctors office, and various retail stores....'holing up' 24/7 is not a reality for almost anyone.

But again.......everyone here knows this and has known it for months .

Yet it won't be a week and the same comments will re appear still again .

---

Glad to hear you acknowledge we couldn't have stay holed up, which I recall was generally your solution to the pandemic. %A0That was never a viable option.

---

So tired of wasting time with the same dead heads. Dumb as grass but truly believe they are brilliant.

Businesses and events that involve large number of people need to be regulated. Closed where/when necessary .

As immortals who can't add two plus two....get infected...then infect others who are not immortal .

Damn, %A0some of you clowns really need to disappear into your John Wayne pseudo realities and never re emerge .

Meanwhile the rest of us have families to protect.

---

Some interesting revisionist history here. Are you truly suggesting that the only quarantines and closures you proposed are businesses and events involving large gatherings of people? %A0No, you wanted a lot more than that.

Businesses and events that involved large number of people were shut down, just FYI. %A0It truly is asinine to suggest that is the cause of our death total, when we have no evidence at all that the NFL, NBA or restaurants with limited capacity caused what we are currently experiencing. %A0

You complain a lot, but offer few if any viable solutions, nor any evidence that people like me have caused more deaths. %A0And yet, you sit on your perch and take potshots at others who don't have the luxury of holing up in their basement. %A0

Perhaps you are the one who needs to stay cowered in the basement, and cut the cord to the internet. %A0You've turned into an easily triggered *******.

---

chuckle

You haven't %A0'turned into an easily triggered ******* ' .......you've remained an ignorant ******* from the beginning of this pandemic . As the death counts continue to rise ( now almost 500,000 ) you merely double down.

Fortunately a handful of people who can actually think have developed a solution .

Will the hopelessly ignorant learn anything from their misguided sense of priorities for the next pandemic ?

Not a chance .

---

You've proposed no viable solutions. %A0None. %A0Your idea for shutting down the economy didn't work in Europe and it hasn't worked here in the states with draconian shutdowns. %A0One need look no further than CA to see the foolishness of that approach. And your idea that allowing sports teams to play would somehow spread the virus also hasn't borne out. %A0More chicken little b.s.

If you want to take a vaccine that causes your cells to build the spike protein for covid and have a body indefinitely at war with itself with no studies whatsoever on long term side effects - please go get your jab already. %A0But remember to continue to social distance and wear masks indefinitely because it won't keep you from spreading COVID.

---

Is there any such thing as a non-draconian shutdown? What would it look like?

---

Of course. %A0See Texas vs. California.

---

So, disaster proclamation extended for a year, ban on private gatherings of ten or more, bars closed completely in high-hospitalization areas. No problems with any of that?

---

Not so much. %A0There are degrees to everything.

Now, you aren't really arguing that those mandates were as draconian as CA are you?

---

What does "not so much" mean? I thought you'd argued that the Texas statute was authoritarian and unconstitutional.

I agree that there are degrees. More targeted measures are appropriate as we learn more. But cooperation is essential. For example, in Texas something like an earlier curfew brings howls of rage and ridicule from people who don't understand why a couple of hours should make a difference. In Japan, they found that moving the curfew from 10 PM to 8 PM improved results from a 20% to an 80% reduction in new cases. This is one reason they no longer have the "extreme" measures in place last spring.

---

No, I argued that your overbroad interpretation of that statute was unconstitutional. %A0

Japan never had extreme measures in place, from what I read. %A0They had suggestions to the public that were never enforced through threat of law. %A0Businesses and schools generally stayed open. %A0It was nothing like the draconian measures you desired.

Japan's success has been attributed to a number of factors not present here, including immunity to SARS viruses and genetics, as well as a less deadly strain.

---

Those factors are speculative at best. There's no evidence of any less deadly strain.

Point is, whatever Japan's baseline vulnerability may be, fine-tuned measures can make a big difference.

---

No more speculative than your idea that Japan's suggestions made a big difference,%A0

And of course, the measures you proposed were not fine tuned in the least.

---

There is evidence supporting the earlier curfew.

As I said, the more we learn, the more we can adjust the policies that were recommended a year ago. But it doesn't work if the fine measures are met with the same hostility.

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

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Of course. Japan asked for businesses to voluntarily close for a very brief period. Some did, some did not. None were forced to do so. And certainly it did not employ the draconian measures other Western countries took. And yet, somehow it fared better than all other Western countries.

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Mothra said:

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There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

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No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

---

Of course. Japan asked for businesses to voluntarily close for a very brief period. Some did, some did not. None were forced to do so. And certainly it did not employ the draconian measures other Western countries took. And yet, somehow it fared better than all other Western countries.

---

Just to be clear then, when you say Japan "never had extreme measures in place," what you mean is that they were never enforced under penalty of law. Closing schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, non-essential shops, etc. is not extreme per se. In fact it's quite possible that these measures were wisely chosen and were a factor in Japan's success.

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

---

Of course. Japan asked for businesses to voluntarily close for a very brief period. Some did, some did not. None were forced to do so. And certainly it did not employ the draconian measures other Western countries took. And yet, somehow it fared better than all other Western countries.

---

Just to be clear then, when you say Japan "never had extreme measures in place," what you mean is that they were never enforced under penalty of law. Closing schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, non-essential shops, etc. is not extreme per se. In fact it's quite possible that these measures were wisely chosen and were a factor in Japan's success.

---

To clarify, Japan never did not close down schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars or non-essential shops. Many of those stayed open. As here, Prime Minister Abe faced resistance to his requests that the country lockdown, and many did not comply. It is one of the reasons he is no longer prime minister. And of course those requests had no teeth.

I never suggested that these measures were not a factor in reducing the spread in Japan. I am sure some of the voluntary closures were indeed a factor. But as scientists have theorized, there seems to have been another reason - perhaps genetic, perhaps resistance to SARS - that allowed the Japanese to come out of this relatively unscathed.

Bottom line is your idea that massive and extended lockdowns were effective, much less feasible, is not borne out by the facts.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

---

Of course. Japan asked for businesses to voluntarily close for a very brief period. Some did, some did not. None were forced to do so. And certainly it did not employ the draconian measures other Western countries took. And yet, somehow it fared better than all other Western countries.

---

Just to be clear then, when you say Japan "never had extreme measures in place," what you mean is that they were never enforced under penalty of law. Closing schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, non-essential shops, etc. is not extreme per se. In fact it's quite possible that these measures were wisely chosen and were a factor in Japan's success.

---

To clarify, Japan never did not close down schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars or non-essential shops. Many of those stayed open. As here, Prime Minister Abe faced resistance to his requests that the country lockdown, and many did not comply. It is one of the reasons he is no longer prime minister. And of course those requests had no teeth.

I never suggested that these measures were not a factor in reducing the spread in Japan. I am sure some of the voluntary closures were indeed a factor. But as scientists have theorized, there seems to have been another reason - perhaps genetic, perhaps resistance to SARS - that allowed the Japanese to come out of this relatively unscathed.

Bottom line is your idea that massive and extended lockdowns were effective, much less feasible, is not borne out by the facts.

---

Bottom line is you're ahead of your skis on both points. The genetic factor is a completely untested hypothesis. The effectiveness of mandatory as opposed to voluntary restrictions is complex. Evidence from Europe suggests that the need for enforcement may depend on the type of restriction, but that in general voluntary cooperation is the most important factor.

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Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

There is likewise evidence that the genetic component and SARS immunity played a role in Japan's death rate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7207161/

---

No, there isn't. That's the same article I linked earlier.

---

The article theorizes that there is a genetic component and SARS immunity that prevented the spread. Sure, it is merely a theory, but it's no more speculative than your idea that curfews prevented the spread.

The bottom line is Japan did not have in place any draconian measures to prevent the spread. Despite an aging population and one of the highest population densities in the world, it has fared better than all Western countries, including those with the big govt. lock downs you favored. So you will have to look to somewhere other than Japan to support your theory.

Good luck.

---

So last spring when Japan closed schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, and non-essential shops, these measures were not draconian?

---

Once again, Japan had no mandatory lockdowns, and nothing on the scale of any country in Europe.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53188847

---

The above list is only partial. As you probably know, Japan had no constitutional mechanism for enforcing its measures in the way Europe and America supposedly do.

But as to the draconian nature of the measures I listed, are you saying it depends on how they're enforced?

---

Of course. Japan asked for businesses to voluntarily close for a very brief period. Some did, some did not. None were forced to do so. And certainly it did not employ the draconian measures other Western countries took. And yet, somehow it fared better than all other Western countries.

---

Just to be clear then, when you say Japan "never had extreme measures in place," what you mean is that they were never enforced under penalty of law. Closing schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars, non-essential shops, etc. is not extreme per se. In fact it's quite possible that these measures were wisely chosen and were a factor in Japan's success.

---

To clarify, Japan never did not close down schools, gyms, theaters, cinemas, museums, libraries, arcades, bars or non-essential shops. Many of those stayed open. As here, Prime Minister Abe faced resistance to his requests that the country lockdown, and many did not comply. It is one of the reasons he is no longer prime minister. And of course those requests had no teeth.

I never suggested that these measures were not a factor in reducing the spread in Japan. I am sure some of the voluntary closures were indeed a factor. But as scientists have theorized, there seems to have been another reason - perhaps genetic, perhaps resistance to SARS - that allowed the Japanese to come out of this relatively unscathed.

Bottom line is your idea that massive and extended lockdowns were effective, much less feasible, is not borne out by the facts.

---

Bottom line is you're ahead of your skis on both points. The genetic factor is a completely untested hypothesis. The effectiveness of mandatory as opposed to voluntary restrictions is complex. Evidence from Europe suggests that the need for enforcement may depend on the type of restriction, but that in general voluntary cooperation is the most important factor.

---

Why do you keep arguing points we agree on? Do you think that helps your argument? Let me repeat yet again: nobody has said the genetic factor was tested. It is a hypothesis by scientists based on the fact that Japan had no draconian or mandatory lockdowns (much to your chagrin), and sporadic compliance with the "suggested" closures of businesses and schools. Despite lax and unenforceable rules, one of the oldest and most densely populated areas came out relatively unscathed.

In short, there is no evidence that the voluntary and sporadic compliance with Japan's suggested restrictions were a major factor in Japan's success. I know you wish it were so, but Japan does not support Big Govt. Sam's position.

There is no sense in repeating the same argument ad nauseum, so I will let you have the last word.

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Quote:

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Amid the dire Covid warnings, one crucial fact has been largely ignored: Cases are down 77% over the past six weeks. If a medication slashed cases by 77%, we'd call it a miracle pill. Why is the number of cases plummeting much faster than experts predicted?

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Quote:

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In large part because natural immunity from prior infection is far more common than can be measured by testing. Testing has been capturing only from 10% to 25% of infections, depending on when during the pandemic someone got the virus. Applying a time-weighted case capture average of 1 in 6.5 to the cumulative 28 million confirmed cases would mean about 55% of Americans have natural immunity.

Now add people getting vaccinated. As of this week, 15% of Americans have received the vaccine, and the figure is rising fast. Former Food and Drug Commissioner Scott Gottlieb estimates 250 million doses will have been delivered to some 150 million people by the end of March.

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Shippou said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Will masks become the 'new normal' even after the pandemic has passed? Some Americans say so

Quote:

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"I think we do need a new culture of masks, at least any time not feeling well, and I think masks are in and handshakes out for the indefinite future," said Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the C.D.C. during the Obama Administration and the president of global health initiative Resolve to Save Lives.

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Who cares? Is it that much of an inconvenience?

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