Proof of God or Presence of God?

12,689 Views | 204 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Waco1947
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco47, still waiting for your answer - is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?
The Bible is very comfortable with an all powerful God however physics says differently about what power is. Ultimately the power of God rest in the power of the cross. As Paul says in cross.I Corthinians "God chose to save only those who believe the foolish message we preach. 22 Jews ask for miracles, and Greeks want something that sounds wise. 23 But we preach that Christ was nailed to a cross. Most Jews have problems with this, and most Gentiles think it is foolish. 24 Our message is God's power and wisdom for the Jews and the Greeks that he has chosen. 25 Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger."
So, you're saying Hebrews is wrong, correct?
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?
Your Jesus is a Jesus that had no part in our creation; he was absolutely powerless in how we came into existence. So we weren't made for God and Jesus. This is diametrically opposed to the bible and the gospels.

Your Jesus had no control over nature, despite the witness of his disciples saying that he did.

Your Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, despite that being the testimony of his disciples that they swore to and gave their life for. You don't even have any idea why Jesus had to die in the first place.

Therefore, for these reasons, as well as many others, you've rejected the Jesus of the gospels and bible.


Jesus did have that power but scripture says he did. He did so show what faith on him was like spiritually. Look at texts of miracles with faith eyes not literally eyes. Faith eyes is the point to our discipleship.
If faith eyes are the point to our discipleship, then why do you reject the faith described in Hebrews 11:3?

Here it is again: "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command..."
Waco1947
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Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
You claim God has no control over physics.

Prove it.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
Reread Hebrews 11:3.
Follow and think SLOWLY:

It says faith leads one to know God created the universe. It's clear as crystal and simple enough that a child can understand it.
You DON'T believe God created the universe.
Therefore you DON'T have that faith.

You JUST said discipleship is based on faith.
So why do you reject the faith of Hebrews 11:3?

You say you don't reject Hebrews, but you clearly reject Hebrews 11:3.
You are not challenging my core beliefs, you are challenging what is explicitly claimed in the bible.
What's sad is that you are so blind you can't comprehend any of this.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.
Waco1947
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
LIB,MR BEARS
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
what do you say?

Deut 12:32
Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take anything away from it.

Rev. 22:1819
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
So, since you don't believe God created the universe, you don't have faith.
Just as I said.

And since you yourself said faith is the point of discipleship, you have failed in discipleship.
Your words.

Therefore, you are not a disciple of Jesus. You are a fraud.
Waco1947
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Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course
Mothra
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Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
Waco1947
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Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
Waco1947
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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
So, since you don't believe God created the universe, you don't have faith.
Just as I said.

And since you yourself said faith is the point of discipleship, you have failed in discipleship.
Your words.

Therefore, you are not a disciple of Jesus. You are a fraud.

I believe in the good news of Jesus Christ the Son of the living God. God is not denying me eternal life for a doctrine of "omnipotence "
Mothra
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Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
LIB,MR BEARS
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
So, since you don't believe God created the universe, you don't have faith.
Just as I said.

And since you yourself said faith is the point of discipleship, you have failed in discipleship.
Your words.

Therefore, you are not a disciple of Jesus. You are a fraud.

I believe in the good news of Jesus Christ the Son of the living God. God is not denying me eternal life for a doctrine of "omnipotence "
it seems to me that you have created your own god by removing certain attributes of Jesus Christ. It also seems to me this is in direct contradiction to His Word that says "neither add to, nor take away from." And, is again addressed in Revelation.

Can you tell me where and how I'm wrong?
J.B.Katz
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tommie said:

BellCountyBear said:

Mothra said:

Is a god that has no control over nature really god at all?
47 is an educated idiot. That's all you need to know.


Although I've never met 47, I think the world of that dude. I hope to meet him in the fall.
A man whose faith is thoughtful and who has good questions.

So of course the boys who want to tell us all the answers and think anybody who doesnt walk in lockstep with them is hellbound dont like him.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Re-read my comment I do not reject Hebrews.
Faith s steps out without fear knowing Jesus is with them.
Faith is not belief in a doctrine.
Faith is lived out, but not a Sunday School answer. My belief is grounded in two realities
1. Physics is real and God has no control over it
2. I live out my spiritual walk with Jesus in discipleship in that reality of physics..
I'm challenging one of your core beliefs, but Feel free to remain in your belief system.
And you still haven't answered my question:

Is Hebrews 11:3 wrong?

Give me a clear answer, not your usual meaningless gobbledygook.
If you don't, I'm not gonna continue this any further.

Faith says "God created the universe" Hebrew 11:3
Physics says "The forces of physics created the universe."
So, since you don't believe God created the universe, you don't have faith.
Just as I said.

And since you yourself said faith is the point of discipleship, you have failed in discipleship.
Your words.

Therefore, you are not a disciple of Jesus. You are a fraud.

I believe in the good news of Jesus Christ the Son of the living God. God is not denying me eternal life for a doctrine of "omnipotence "
But it's not the God and Jesus of the bible. It's one of your own making.


BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco47, you said you believe Jesus is God incarnate.
Doesn't that mean God was able to act and speak through him?
If so, then doesn't that mean God moved his body and his mouth, to do and say what God wanted to do and say?
Doesn't that mean God was able to control the physical realm?

If God does not have the ability to control the physical realm, then everything Jesus said and did was the result of deterministic physics, all set in motion from the moment of the Big Bang - God could only sit by and idly watch, as he was powerless to intervene. Right?

So then, if Jesus' words and deeds were not from God, as God would have no way to express Himself to us through physical actions and words...

...then we can't know ANYTHING about God through what Jesus said and did.

So what is there to believe and trust in Jesus? He was just another blob of cells moving around under the rules of physics, just like any of us, right?
Florda_mike
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A thread dedicated to questioning the religious/spiritual beliefs of Waco1947

How funny as Waco struggles to survive the onslaught

Lol

I'll just sit back and occasionally tune in and enjoy
Waco1947
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Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .
Mothra
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Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .


Thanks for the explanation. So if I understand you correctly, you believe Christ's spirit is alive today. And you believe we each have spirits. Correct?

Would you agree with me a spirit is by it's very nature supernatural? After all, it's not something that science can prove.
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .
Look at the verses you just quoted.
"But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body."

How can God give a body, if he has no power over the physical realm? How can he shape creation the way He wants, if according to your belief He did not have the power to create the heavens and the earth, nor us humans, nor any other life on earth?

Is Paul wrong about God giving us our physical bodies? If so, why trust him about what he says elsewhere in that very same passage?

If you quote scripture to support your theology, but that very same passage also contradicts it, then, well, that just doesn't make any sense, does it? Hasn't your theology failed, and therefore shouldn't you rethink it?
BusyTarpDuster2017
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Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .
You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?




Waco1947
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Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .


Thanks for the explanation. So if I understand you correctly, you believe Christ's spirit is alive today. And you believe we each have spirits. Correct?

Would you agree with me a spirit is by it's very nature supernatural? After all, it's not something that science can prove.
Spirit to me is not supernatural. We have souls unseeable, but real because of humans throughout time creating gods and God in order to touch that spirit of God and love.
God is's spirit is transcendent here, not yet and the has been.
Humans keep realizing that Spirit as God is slowly travelled to be faith, hope, a lover of justice for the oppressed, and love.
We, Christians, most uniquely because of our Jewish and Christian, see in Jesus Christ the fullness of God's revealed love.
Our peoples and cultural differ radical as in Southeast Asia and China and the Middle East. How they see the revealed God in their faiths I don't know. In my cursory reading they seem to have a love commandment.
.
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .
You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?





Does physical matter to you? Have not you encountered the risen Christ and He is sufficient for you? It is for me. In the Jesus will ask "Do you love me, your neighbor and yourself?"
He will not ask, "Did you believe in my physical resurrection?"
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
One more try for a straight answer:

How is, what you do regarding scripture and particularly this verse, not considered "adding to nor taking away"?

"Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .
You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?





Does physical matter to you? Have not you encountered the risen Christ and He is sufficient for you? It is for me. In the Jesus will ask "Do you love me, your neighbor and yourself?"
He will not ask, "Did you believe in my physical resurrection?"
Does the TRUTH matter to you?

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them?

The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!
If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God.
If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts.
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I want to discern your theology which is grounded in the Biblical world view and that view takes precedence over science and anybody else' view.

"Does the TRUTH matter to you?"
Are you saying the truth is physical and spiritual? I am not sure of your definition of truth - science, spiritual, historical, etc.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them? You believe that my answers are far off from what you believe about the Biblical view of the universe and I am circumventing them in an effort to derail you?

"The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!"If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God"
From where you stand within the Biblical view of physical matter then you believe that God created the universe and us. In addition you maintain that your theology of God is correct and no other views are acceptable.

"If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then"
So no all powerful God then no Jesus? My understanding of the "risen" Christ does not accord with your understanding a particular view of the resurrection, that is, physical thus making my belief worthless.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts."
According to you my theology is a complete failure because I do not answer the challenges you offer up. Furthermore, these do not match up with your view that about the Biblical physical universe.
Am I accurate? I can only answer your challenges if I understand your belief system.
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

I want to discern your theology which is grounded in the Biblical world view and that view takes precedence over science and anybody else' view.

"Does the TRUTH matter to you?"
Are you saying the truth is physical and spiritual? I am not sure of your definition of truth - science, spiritual, historical, etc.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them? You believe that my answers are far off from what you believe about the Biblical view of the universe and I am circumventing them in an effort to derail you?

"The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!"If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God"
From where you stand within the Biblical view of physical matter then you believe that God created the universe and us. In addition you maintain that your theology of God is correct and no other views are acceptable.

"If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then"
So no all powerful God then no Jesus? My understanding of the "risen" Christ does not accord with your understanding a particular view of the resurrection, that is, physical thus making my belief worthless.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts."
According to you my theology is a complete failure because I do not answer the challenges you offer up. Furthermore, these do not match up with your view that about the Biblical physical universe.
Am I accurate? I can only answer your challenges if I understand your belief system.
You don't need to discern my theology to answer the challenges being posed.
This is about YOUR failed theology. It has nothing to do with mine.
Playing this silly game won't help you. I'm gonna keep you focused. You're only gonna look like a fraud (yet again) if you keep it up. You are a witness to others regarding your beliefs on this public forum, so better shape up and answer, lest you appear the fool.

Here, try again, and start with this one, my earlier post:
Quote:

You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?

Go.
LIB,MR BEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I want to discern your theology which is grounded in the Biblical world view and that view takes precedence over science and anybody else' view.

"Does the TRUTH matter to you?"
Are you saying the truth is physical and spiritual? I am not sure of your definition of truth - science, spiritual, historical, etc.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them? You believe that my answers are far off from what you believe about the Biblical view of the universe and I am circumventing them in an effort to derail you?

"The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!"If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God"
From where you stand within the Biblical view of physical matter then you believe that God created the universe and us. In addition you maintain that your theology of God is correct and no other views are acceptable.

"If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then"
So no all powerful God then no Jesus? My understanding of the "risen" Christ does not accord with your understanding a particular view of the resurrection, that is, physical thus making my belief worthless.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts."
According to you my theology is a complete failure because I do not answer the challenges you offer up. Furthermore, these do not match up with your view that about the Biblical physical universe.
Am I accurate? I can only answer your challenges if I understand your belief system.
You don't need to discern my theology to answer the challenges being posed.
This is about YOUR failed theology. It has nothing to do with mine.
Playing this silly game won't help you. I'm gonna keep you focused. You're only gonna look like a fraud (yet again) if you keep it up. You are a witness to others regarding your beliefs on this public forum, so better shape up and answer, lest you appear the fool.

Here, try again, and start with this one, my earlier post:
Quote:

You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?

Go.
crickets
BusyTarpDuster2017
How long do you want to ignore this user?
LIB,MR BEARS said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I want to discern your theology which is grounded in the Biblical world view and that view takes precedence over science and anybody else' view.

"Does the TRUTH matter to you?"
Are you saying the truth is physical and spiritual? I am not sure of your definition of truth - science, spiritual, historical, etc.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them? You believe that my answers are far off from what you believe about the Biblical view of the universe and I am circumventing them in an effort to derail you?

"The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!"If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God"
From where you stand within the Biblical view of physical matter then you believe that God created the universe and us. In addition you maintain that your theology of God is correct and no other views are acceptable.

"If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then"
So no all powerful God then no Jesus? My understanding of the "risen" Christ does not accord with your understanding a particular view of the resurrection, that is, physical thus making my belief worthless.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts."
According to you my theology is a complete failure because I do not answer the challenges you offer up. Furthermore, these do not match up with your view that about the Biblical physical universe.
Am I accurate? I can only answer your challenges if I understand your belief system.
You don't need to discern my theology to answer the challenges being posed.
This is about YOUR failed theology. It has nothing to do with mine.
Playing this silly game won't help you. I'm gonna keep you focused. You're only gonna look like a fraud (yet again) if you keep it up. You are a witness to others regarding your beliefs on this public forum, so better shape up and answer, lest you appear the fool.

Here, try again, and start with this one, my earlier post:
Quote:

You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?

Go.
crickets
I'll give him at least a couple days.
Mothra
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I'm not chasing the rabbit of "Waco, you have no faith."
Till answer your questions. But not tonight.
If you have faith, it's not in the Jesus of the bible. It's in your own watered down version of him.
I watered down the good news of Jesus Christ The Son of God? He died on a cross for us and lives again and loves you and me. He died a Death on behalf of love for us is not watered down what part of my statement is not the Jesus of the Bible?


Do you believe Jesus is alive right now?
Of course


Thanks. So you would agree then he does possess some supernatural abilities I take it?
No not supernatural but spiritual. He walks with daily.
So it's not supernatural to be resurrected and be alive today despite being over 2,000 years old?

Perhaps I should seek some clarification regarding what you mean by Christ is "alive." Do you mean he is living, breathing and walking - as in the traditional definition of "alive"?

Or do you mean something more esoteric, like he's not actually physically living, but is alive in people's minds and hearts?

If it's the latter, couldn't we say that about all our loved ones who have passed - they are alive "spiritually" in our minds and hearts?
Paul answers your question
But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. I Corinthians 15.
Jesus was raised as a spiritual and He transcends time and space in his love for us. Do you Christ's love? I do. Many wonderful people in life shared the Word with me and I believed .


Thanks for the explanation. So if I understand you correctly, you believe Christ's spirit is alive today. And you believe we each have spirits. Correct?

Would you agree with me a spirit is by it's very nature supernatural? After all, it's not something that science can prove.
Spirit to me is not supernatural. We have souls unseeable, but real because of humans throughout time creating gods and God in order to touch that spirit of God and love.
God is's spirit is transcendent here, not yet and the has been.
Humans keep realizing that Spirit as God is slowly travelled to be faith, hope, a lover of justice for the oppressed, and love.
We, Christians, most uniquely because of our Jewish and Christian, see in Jesus Christ the fullness of God's revealed love.
Our peoples and cultural differ radical as in Southeast Asia and China and the Middle East. How they see the revealed God in their faiths I don't know. In my cursory reading they seem to have a love commandment.
.
I think I understand what you are saying. So, you do not believe in spirits in a metaphyscial sense, but are instead referring to the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of his or her emotions and character. In short, you do not believe in a spiritual "being" so to speak - i.e. what many Christians believe we become after we die. To you, there is no physical heaven or hell where our spirits go to reside after death. When you say Jesus is alive in spirit, you mean that his emotions/character/teachings/love are alive in each of us, despite the fact he is long dead.

Please feel free to correct any of the above if I am wrong.
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

Mothra said:

Waco1947 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

I have faith in the pilot of my flight, in the driver in the oncoming lane, in the pharmacy techs. I have faith in my wife, my kids and to a certain extent, my employer. I also know that all those I described are flawed and subject to make mistakes, change their priorities or become distracted. They are not big enough, knowledgeable enough, loving enough, powerful enough to be worthy of my worship.

A Christian must have faith, no doubt. But isn't it great that we can have faith in a Father and Savior worthy of that faith?
God's love makes God worthy. That is enough.
But what makes God, God?
Love. God is relational love. I John 3: 11 For this is the message you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
I John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 God's love was revealed among us in this way: God sent his only Son into the world so that we might live through him.
Justice, God is justice. James 2: 5 Listen, my beloved brothers and sisters. Has not God chosen the poor in the world to be rich in faith and to be heirs of the kingdom that he has promised to those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you? Is it not they who drag you into court?
Luke 1:His mercy is for those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm;
he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts.
52 He has brought down the powerful from their thrones,
and lifted up the lowly;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and sent the rich away empty.
Loving your neighbor and loving justice are certainly worthy aspirations. MLK taught such things as well, as did Gandhi. But that didn't make either of them God. It made them good men whose teachings we should aspire to. But neither was divine. Agreed?

So again, I ask: in your opinion, what divine attributes does/did Jesus possess, if any? What makes him God, if you believe he was?
God is not in competition with reality, but in full cooperation with it. All human loves, passions, and preoccupations can prime the pump, and only in time do most of us discover the first and final Source of those loves. God is clearly humble and does not seem to care who or what gets the credit. Whatever elicits the flow for youin that moment and encounter, that thing is God for you! I do not say that without theological foundation, because my Trinitarian faith says that God is Relationship Itself. The names of the three "persons" of the Trinity are not as important as the relationship between them. That's where all the power isin the "in between"! Richard Rohr
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Mothra "I think I understand what you are saying. So, you do not believe in spirits in a metaphyscial sense, but are instead referring to the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of his or her emotions and character. In short, you do not believe in a spiritual "being" so to speak - i.e. what many Christians believe we become after we die. To you, there is no physical heaven or hell where our spirits go to reside after death. When you say Jesus is alive in spirit, you mean that his emotions/character/teachings/love are alive in each of us, despite the fact he is long dead.

Please feel free to correct any of the above if I am wrong."

ME in response "I think I understand what you are saying. So, you do not believe in spirits in a metaphyscial sense, but are instead referring to the nonphysical part of a person which is the seat of his or her emotions and character. In short, you do not believe in a spiritual "being" so to speak - i.e. what many Christians believe we become after we die. "Yes, you are right in your distinction between metaphysical and spiritual -- that is spiritual as in relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things
To you, there is no physical heaven or hell where our spirits go to reside after death. When you say Jesus is alive in spirit, you mean that his emotions/character/teachings/love are alive in each of us, despite the fact he is long dead." You are correct except Jesus is "not long sense dead." He is alive in our hearts, in our neighbors and in our worship. I cannot say it any better that the old hymn "He Lives."

Please feel free to correct any of the above if I am wrong.
Waco1947
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

LIB,MR BEARS said:

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

Waco1947 said:

I want to discern your theology which is grounded in the Biblical world view and that view takes precedence over science and anybody else' view.

"Does the TRUTH matter to you?"
Are you saying the truth is physical and spiritual? I am not sure of your definition of truth - science, spiritual, historical, etc.

How about answering my questions instead of avoiding them? You believe that my answers are far off from what you believe about the Biblical view of the universe and I am circumventing them in an effort to derail you?

"The answer to your question is this: OF COURSE physical matters!!"If God did not create the universe, if he didn't create US... then he is not God"
From where you stand within the Biblical view of physical matter then you believe that God created the universe and us. In addition you maintain that your theology of God is correct and no other views are acceptable.

"If God has no power over the physical universe, then JESUS(a physical being) is NOT FROM GOD.
Your belief in a "risen" Christ would be totally worthless, then"
So no all powerful God then no Jesus? My understanding of the "risen" Christ does not accord with your understanding a particular view of the resurrection, that is, physical thus making my belief worthless.

Your theology is a complete failure. Don't think so? Then please, by all means, answer the challenges to your beliefs in my and others' previous posts."
According to you my theology is a complete failure because I do not answer the challenges you offer up. Furthermore, these do not match up with your view that about the Biblical physical universe.
Am I accurate? I can only answer your challenges if I understand your belief system.
You don't need to discern my theology to answer the challenges being posed.
This is about YOUR failed theology. It has nothing to do with mine.
Playing this silly game won't help you. I'm gonna keep you focused. You're only gonna look like a fraud (yet again) if you keep it up. You are a witness to others regarding your beliefs on this public forum, so better shape up and answer, lest you appear the fool.

Here, try again, and start with this one, my earlier post:
Quote:

You believe Jesus was raised in spirit but not in physical body. If that is true, then what do you think of Jesus' own words in the gospel of Luke, when he appeared to his disciples after his resurrection, recorded in chapter 24:

"As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, "Peace to you!" But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

So, here you are, thinking Jesus' resurrection was in spirit and not physical, much like what the scared disciples thought when they first saw him. But then, here is JESUS HIMSELF correcting them(AND YOU) saying he had a physical body, and that he was NOT a spirit! The disciples were even able to touch him and his crucifixion wounds. Jesus even ate food in their presence.

You believe in Jesus, don't you? I mean, you said so yourself.
So why don't you believe him here? Was Jesus wrong about himself? Is the gospel of Luke a lie?
Kinda strange to say you believe in Jesus, but then strongly believe something that Jesus himself DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS, isn't it?

Your thoughts?

Go.
crickets
I'll give him at least a couple days.
Luke 24 is obviously a spiritual body -- Jesus simply disappears from the room and the disciples say afterwards, "Remember how strangely warmed our hearts were when he broke the bread."
BTW. it is that spiritual/relational presence that is available to us in the breaking of bread in communion.
 
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