Liz Cheney: The GOP is at a turning point. History is watching us

57,194 Views | 1080 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Oldbear83
quash
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DancinBear09 said:

Man, some of y'all take the political stuff way, way too seriously. How about many of you take a break from incessantly posting about politics on a ****ing Baylor athletics forum and go out and play golf, hang out w/ friends and family, take up a hobby, get in the outdoors, etc. life is too short to carry on a 22 page thread about whether or not Liz Chenney is a true conservative or not, how big of an ******* Trump may or may not be, how the left or the right is ruining the country, etc. This whole forum is toxic as hell.
Maybe you take athletics too seriously.

Many of us play golf, hang with friends and family, have hobbies, get outdoors, serve on boards and do volunteer work.

All of which tells us that politics is something that affects our lives, not something to be ignored.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Bear_Fan254
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J.B.Katz said:

Money465 said:

I will make a decision about how credible Liz Cheney is after the Arizona Forensic Audit results are known, followed by the upcoming audit in Georgia of the mail-in ballots, followed by the probable audits soon to be held in Wisconsin and Michigan. When it is finally determined that every vote in these states can be attributed to live human beings ... then I will applaud Liz Cheney for her heroic stand! For the record, a recount is not the same as an audit.
"Forensic audit" is not an accurate description of what is happening in Arizona.

I see you're still struggling to kick that Trump addiction man...I promise you'll be a lot more pleasant human being if you just....
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Guy Noir
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For those of you still enamored with Trump.

My discontent with Trump is not based merely on some "mean tweets".
1. Trump failed to articulate the situation accurately several times. This was especially true with the Covid pandemic.
2. Trump intimidated the Fed Reserve Chairman when the stock market was not rising fast enough. This prevented an increase in the Reserve Rate. I think this is a path that we continue to go down and will lead to inflation.
3. Last of all Trump appointed some great leaders to his cabinet but they seem to only last about a year before getting into a conflict with him.
Oldbear83
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You need help, son.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
J.B.Katz
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Guy Noir said:

J.B.Katz said:

Money465 said:

I will make a decision about how credible Liz Cheney is after the Arizona Forensic Audit results are known, followed by the upcoming audit in Georgia of the mail-in ballots, followed by the probable audits soon to be held in Wisconsin and Michigan. When it is finally determined that every vote in these states can be attributed to live human beings ... then I will applaud Liz Cheney for her heroic stand! For the record, a recount is not the same as an audit.
"Forensic audit" is not an accurate description of what is happening in Arizona.

Liz Cheney's vote was tied to the Jan 6 activity.

Arizona recount is tied to the election. They are 2 separate events?
What is happening in Arizona is not a recount.

It is an attempt by the losers to rewrite history.

The lack of security and unprofessionalism are so egregious that the election equipment corrupted by the unprofessionals hired to do this "recount" may not be usable after whatever they're doing is completed.

Dems were pissed after the 2000 election. And they should have been. A state where Bush's brother was governor pushed GW Bush into office. Justice Scalia later admitted the SCOTUS decision broke with his "originalist" philosophy and that his ruling was based on the need for national stability. Gore won the popular vote.

Dems were pissed again when Hillary won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. They didn't pull the kind of **** Republicans are pulling in Arizona or do what Trump supporters did on Jan. 6. Hillary Clinton would never have encouraged her supporters to do what Trump encouraged his supporters to do. She cooperated with the bogus, fruitless Benghazi investigation forchrissakes.

BLM and Antifa is the excuse presented for Jan 6 and that's a nonstarter. Rioting and trashing public buildings is wrong no matter who does it, and anyone who does it should face consquences.

The election is over. Biden won it fair and square. Some people don't want to accept that. Their "leaders" shouldn't be encouraging and inciting insurrection by promoting the Big Lie. But McCarthy and McConnell are doing just that even though they both know Trump did not win the election.
Oldbear83
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What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
J.B.Katz
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Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
Oldbear83
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J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
I will speak up the next time that happens. It's generally a Leftist thing, and gets touted by people with names like 'Schiff' and 'Cortez'.

But there is no 'assault on democracy' in the Arizona audit, and nothing any honest person has reason to fear.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
J.B.Katz
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Oldbear83 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
I will speak up the next time that happens. It's generally a Leftist thing, and gets touted by people with names like 'Schiff' and 'Cortez'.

But there is no 'assault on democracy' in the Arizona audit, and nothing any honest person has reason to fear.
No, you won't.

Trump has destroyed the Republican party and now he's trying to destroy American democracy, and Trump loyalists like you are helping him do it.
Oldbear83
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J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
I will speak up the next time that happens. It's generally a Leftist thing, and gets touted by people with names like 'Schiff' and 'Cortez'.

But there is no 'assault on democracy' in the Arizona audit, and nothing any honest person has reason to fear.
No, you won't.

Trump has destroyed the Republican party and now he's trying to destroy American democracy, and Trump loyalists like you are helping him do it.
Your spittle-flecked rant does not help sell your opinion, J.B.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Whiskey Pete
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Oldbear83 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
I will speak up the next time that happens. It's generally a Leftist thing, and gets touted by people with names like 'Schiff' and 'Cortez'.

But there is no 'assault on democracy' in the Arizona audit, and nothing any honest person has reason to fear.
No, you won't.

Trump has destroyed the Republican party and now he's trying to destroy American democracy, and Trump loyalists like you are helping him do it.
Your spittle-flecked rant does not help sell your opinion, J.B.
Don't you mean jinxy
Guy Noir
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Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

Porteroso said:

Canon said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

Aliceinbubbleland said:

I just keep saying and most far right deny but if BLM's had staged the insurrection on Jan 6th you would be ****ting all over yourselves.

At least Liz has the courage to try and remain constant unlike other Senate and House leaders flip flopping all over themselves in condemning Trump, then turning around and denying anything happened.

I don't like the hearings. We have enough of those. But anyone who thinks we were justified in storming the Capital is bat **** crazy.
The problem with your reasoning is in the first sentence. Nobody staged an insurrection on Jan 6th.
It's a classic example, although it was poorly conceived and organized. For some it was planned, and others spontaneous.
That stumbles at ontology. For a few dozens, it was a poorly conceived and organized effort to disrupt a process. For the other 99.99% of those present, it was less than a BLM protest. And even then, not even the instigators made the merest attempted to wrest power from the established order, which is the sine qua non of an insurrection.

The unseriousness of the allegation is so outlandish it justifies removing from positions of responsibility those who propagate such nonsense. Ergo the decision to move Cheney to the backbenches.
You obviously don't believe this. Curious why you post it.
Res Ipsa Loquitur. The allegation of insurrection is so patently absurd that it discredits those who utter it.


It discredits those who excuse it, and denial is a form of excuse. I mention it only because you seemed fairly credible until recently.


You exemplify the discredit he cites. No thinking person would honestly and seriously attempt to characterize 6 Jan as anything other than a band of morons walking their protest into a public building and taking selfie's with police or in offices in which they didn't belong.

Anyone who claims an insurrection took place against the most powerful nation on earth, perpetrated by random, disorganized protesters with zero firearms, where the only killing was that of a protester by an unnamed policeman, is either a partisan liar or an imbecile.

Bringing up the label of moron isn't going to work out for you.

The stated purpose of the insurrection was to stop the validation of the American vote, and Trump was asking Pence to declare alternate electors. Pence refused, so hanging Pence was another stated goal of some of the protesters.

If they had accomplished these goals, we would have our first dictator presently, so in what world is that not an insurrection? Sure, most weren't armed, and only a few people died, so this isn't like the French Revolution.

But how else do you describe a scenario where had they succeeded, the protesters would have ended democracy?

It says a lot about you radicals, that you refuse to condemn such an open attempt to burn the Constitution and hang the Vice President.
Well said.
and it completely undercuts the insurrection narrative.
Not at all.
Oldbear83
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Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Guy Noir
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Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Oldbear83
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Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
quash
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Guy Noir said:

For those of you still enamored with Trump.

My discontent with Trump is not based merely on some "mean tweets".
1. Trump failed to articulate the situation accurately several times. This was especially true with the Covid pandemic.
2. Trump intimidated the Fed Reserve Chairman when the stock market was not rising fast enough. This prevented an increase in the Reserve Rate. I think this is a path that we continue to go down and will lead to inflation.
3. Last of all Trump appointed some great leaders to his cabinet but they seem to only last about a year before getting into a conflict with him.
Some folks cannot accept that policy differences are all it takes. Those still suffering from TDS in particular.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Guy Noir
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Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Actually you are projecting your frustration. My goal on this thread was to support Liz Cheney and the fact she voted for impeachment. The extreme stand of calling out anyone that does not continue to support Trump is on you and a few others.
Oldbear83
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<chuckle>

No, your goal was clearly 'must attack Trump'.

You reek of it.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
curtpenn
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J.B.Katz said:

Guy Noir said:

J.B.Katz said:

Money465 said:

I will make a decision about how credible Liz Cheney is after the Arizona Forensic Audit results are known, followed by the upcoming audit in Georgia of the mail-in ballots, followed by the probable audits soon to be held in Wisconsin and Michigan. When it is finally determined that every vote in these states can be attributed to live human beings ... then I will applaud Liz Cheney for her heroic stand! For the record, a recount is not the same as an audit.
"Forensic audit" is not an accurate description of what is happening in Arizona.

Liz Cheney's vote was tied to the Jan 6 activity.

Arizona recount is tied to the election. They are 2 separate events?
What is happening in Arizona is not a recount.

It is an attempt by the losers to rewrite history.

The lack of security and unprofessionalism are so egregious that the election equipment corrupted by the unprofessionals hired to do this "recount" may not be usable after whatever they're doing is completed.

Dems were pissed after the 2000 election. And they should have been. A state where Bush's brother was governor pushed GW Bush into office. Justice Scalia later admitted the SCOTUS decision broke with his "originalist" philosophy and that his ruling was based on the need for national stability. Gore won the popular vote.

Dems were pissed again when Hillary won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. They didn't pull the kind of **** Republicans are pulling in Arizona or do what Trump supporters did on Jan. 6. Hillary Clinton would never have encouraged her supporters to do what Trump encouraged his supporters to do. She cooperated with the bogus, fruitless Benghazi investigation forchrissakes.

BLM and Antifa is the excuse presented for Jan 6 and that's a nonstarter. Rioting and trashing public buildings is wrong no matter who does it, and anyone who does it should face consquences.

The election is over. Biden won it fair and square. Some people don't want to accept that. Their "leaders" shouldn't be encouraging and inciting insurrection by promoting the Big Lie. But McCarthy and McConnell are doing just that even though they both know Trump did not win the election.


"Fair and square" is irrelevant when those elected are an inherent threat to our republic. #BidenDelendaEst
curtpenn
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J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

J.B.Katz said:

Oldbear83 said:

What's happening in Arizona should not bother the Left at all, if they really won honestly.

Fascinating to see them get so worked up over something everyone agrees won't change the outcome.
An assault on legitimate democracy should bother everyone.
I will speak up the next time that happens. It's generally a Leftist thing, and gets touted by people with names like 'Schiff' and 'Cortez'.

But there is no 'assault on democracy' in the Arizona audit, and nothing any honest person has reason to fear.
No, you won't.

Trump has destroyed the Republican party and now he's trying to destroy American democracy, and Trump loyalists like you are helping him do it.


You confuse hatred of the left with loyalty to Trump. As always. #BronzeAgeMindset
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Obama is more or less politically inactive, and is mostly irrelevant. Trump on the other hand is manipulating the party through intimidation and is laying the groundwork to regain the nomination in 04, which will guarantee the D's will keep the WH. So, Trump is very much relevant for discussion.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
whiterock
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TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Rawhide said:
Except the reality is the cop you mentioned was killed at the "insurrection" actually wasn't killed. You libs keep pushing that lie hoping people will buy your BS
TexasScientist said:
There are hours of video to sho that it was an insurrection. There is video of one insurrectionist using a baton to beat a police officer, and video of another insurrectionist using brass knuckles to hit a police officer.
When the liberal mob decided to burn cities, occupy government buildings, demand that gov't authority be defunded....when they decided forrm a new "country", threaten and harm innocent Americans, kill Trump supporters, beat white people, terrorize folks eating at restaurants..... what the hell was that? If THAT wasn't an insurrection, then what happened at the capitol building was f-u-c-k-i-n-g akin to an out-of-control kegger.
Yep, some of that was insurrection. But none of that was in an attempt to change the results of an election by storming the U.S. Capitol. That is treason.
Is it treason to steal an election?
Is it treason to have the power to stop an election from being stolen, yet do nothing?
Is it treason to demonstrate inside the halls of Congress to stop what you believe to be an illegal (or even simply undesirable) act from occurring?

Think carefully before you comment, as it could undermine beloved narratives on Russia Collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and court packing (Kavanaugh hearings).

I would advise ceasing the insurrection messaging. You are not moving needles on it because what happened manifestly does not fit the definition of the term. Doubling down only serves to incite concerns by others that you intend to engage in purges to consolidate power. (and it's not like progressives aren't sending those signals on other issues, so the context is very bad....)
Merriam Webster - Definition of insurrection
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Definition of treason
: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Go argue with the dictionary.


You are the one arguing with a dictionary. The 6 Jan riot was a riot, not a revolt against existing authority (to establish a new authority, which is the sine qua non of a revolt.)

Just amazing to see how many people will ignore the bloody frickin' obvious.
Oldbear83
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TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Obama is more or less politically inactive, and is mostly irrelevant. Trump on the other hand is manipulating the party through intimidation and is laying the groundwork to regain the nomination in 04, which will guarantee the D's will keep the WH. So, Trump is very much relevant for discussion.
A very dishonest statement. For one thing, Obama is at least as involved in Democrat politics as Trump is in Republican politics. For another, Trump is not doing anything particularly active in terms of a 2024 campaign; it looks a lot more like he is playing wait and see, while people like you see him under every bed and table.

As for the Dems keeping the White House, their fear - and I suspect yours - is that they are on course to lose the House, maybe even the Senate, in 2022, because of their absurd behavior since taking control in 2019.

So the point remains. Your obsession is making you delusional.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Porteroso
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Rawhide said:

HuMcK said:

I wonder how much Venn-diagram overlap exists of people who refuse to call 1/6 an insurrection, but called the impeachment a "coup"?
I'm curious about the same thing from people that call the capitol building incident an insurrection but the summer insurrection a peaceful protest

Just like nobody is mixing in pro-life protests with the Capitol insurrection and calling it all insurrection, you don't need to be mixing together the 95% peaceful protests over the summer with the 5% that ended up being riots and destructive.

It is a sign of intellectual dishonesty, though I know you just parrot it from whatever news source you read/watch, which seeks to pit you against the other side by convincing you they're all bad.

Protesting is one of the most America things ever. It is true things got way out of hand, and I don't know what you call trying to burn down federal courthouses.

But if the stated goal was to protest inequality, that's simply different from stating that you want to throw out the Presidential vote, hang the Vice President, and install a dictator.

That's not saying both were equally destructive, but words have meaning, and one type of riot fits the description of insurrection. The other is more like adults throwing screaming tantrums, throwing things across the room, stealing mommy's money out of her purse to get back at her.
Porteroso
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Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Obama is more or less politically inactive, and is mostly irrelevant. Trump on the other hand is manipulating the party through intimidation and is laying the groundwork to regain the nomination in 04, which will guarantee the D's will keep the WH. So, Trump is very much relevant for discussion.
A very dishonest statement. For one thing, Obama is at least as involved in Democrat politics as Trump is in Republican politics. For another, Trump is not doing anything particularly active in terms of a 2024 campaign; it looks a lot more like he is playing wait and see, while people like you see him under every bed and table.

As for the Dems keeping the White House, their fear - and I suspect yours - is that they are on course to lose the House, maybe even the Senate, in 2022, because of their absurd behavior since taking control in 2019.

So the point remains. Your obsession is making you delusional.

Everything you post is so wrong, and it's honestly impossible to call you out enough. But Trump is campaigning in Ohio, NC, and Florida (releasing his campaign schedule soon) so I think you just need to use Google more before you make stupid statements. Calling others dishonest is downright hilarious.
Oldbear83
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Porteroso said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Obama is more or less politically inactive, and is mostly irrelevant. Trump on the other hand is manipulating the party through intimidation and is laying the groundwork to regain the nomination in 04, which will guarantee the D's will keep the WH. So, Trump is very much relevant for discussion.
A very dishonest statement. For one thing, Obama is at least as involved in Democrat politics as Trump is in Republican politics. For another, Trump is not doing anything particularly active in terms of a 2024 campaign; it looks a lot more like he is playing wait and see, while people like you see him under every bed and table.

As for the Dems keeping the White House, their fear - and I suspect yours - is that they are on course to lose the House, maybe even the Senate, in 2022, because of their absurd behavior since taking control in 2019.

So the point remains. Your obsession is making you delusional.

Everything you post is so wrong, and it's honestly impossible to call you out enough. But Trump is campaigning in Ohio, NC, and Florida (releasing his campaign schedule soon) so I think you just need to use Google more before you make stupid statements. Calling others dishonest is downright hilarious.
Everything I posted was completely true. Your reaction demonstrates your own foibles and hypocrisy, Porteroso.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Porteroso
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whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Rawhide said:
Except the reality is the cop you mentioned was killed at the "insurrection" actually wasn't killed. You libs keep pushing that lie hoping people will buy your BS
TexasScientist said:
There are hours of video to sho that it was an insurrection. There is video of one insurrectionist using a baton to beat a police officer, and video of another insurrectionist using brass knuckles to hit a police officer.
When the liberal mob decided to burn cities, occupy government buildings, demand that gov't authority be defunded....when they decided forrm a new "country", threaten and harm innocent Americans, kill Trump supporters, beat white people, terrorize folks eating at restaurants..... what the hell was that? If THAT wasn't an insurrection, then what happened at the capitol building was f-u-c-k-i-n-g akin to an out-of-control kegger.
Yep, some of that was insurrection. But none of that was in an attempt to change the results of an election by storming the U.S. Capitol. That is treason.
Is it treason to steal an election?
Is it treason to have the power to stop an election from being stolen, yet do nothing?
Is it treason to demonstrate inside the halls of Congress to stop what you believe to be an illegal (or even simply undesirable) act from occurring?

Think carefully before you comment, as it could undermine beloved narratives on Russia Collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and court packing (Kavanaugh hearings).

I would advise ceasing the insurrection messaging. You are not moving needles on it because what happened manifestly does not fit the definition of the term. Doubling down only serves to incite concerns by others that you intend to engage in purges to consolidate power. (and it's not like progressives aren't sending those signals on other issues, so the context is very bad....)
Merriam Webster - Definition of insurrection
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Definition of treason
: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Go argue with the dictionary.


You are the one arguing with a dictionary. The 6 Jan riot was a riot, not a revolt against existing authority (to establish a new authority, which is the sine qua non of a revolt.)

Just amazing to see how many people will ignore the bloody frickin' obvious.

The protesters stated they wanted to hang Mike Pence for not burning the Constitution. In what reality is that not a revolt? I know, conservative radical land where you deny everything that's not convenient. Alternate facts have a lot to learn from you master reality deniers.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Rawhide said:
Except the reality is the cop you mentioned was killed at the "insurrection" actually wasn't killed. You libs keep pushing that lie hoping people will buy your BS
TexasScientist said:
There are hours of video to sho that it was an insurrection. There is video of one insurrectionist using a baton to beat a police officer, and video of another insurrectionist using brass knuckles to hit a police officer.
When the liberal mob decided to burn cities, occupy government buildings, demand that gov't authority be defunded....when they decided forrm a new "country", threaten and harm innocent Americans, kill Trump supporters, beat white people, terrorize folks eating at restaurants..... what the hell was that? If THAT wasn't an insurrection, then what happened at the capitol building was f-u-c-k-i-n-g akin to an out-of-control kegger.
Yep, some of that was insurrection. But none of that was in an attempt to change the results of an election by storming the U.S. Capitol. That is treason.
Is it treason to steal an election?
Is it treason to have the power to stop an election from being stolen, yet do nothing?
Is it treason to demonstrate inside the halls of Congress to stop what you believe to be an illegal (or even simply undesirable) act from occurring?

Think carefully before you comment, as it could undermine beloved narratives on Russia Collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and court packing (Kavanaugh hearings).

I would advise ceasing the insurrection messaging. You are not moving needles on it because what happened manifestly does not fit the definition of the term. Doubling down only serves to incite concerns by others that you intend to engage in purges to consolidate power. (and it's not like progressives aren't sending those signals on other issues, so the context is very bad....)
Merriam Webster - Definition of insurrection
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Definition of treason
: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Go argue with the dictionary.


You are the one arguing with a dictionary. The 6 Jan riot was a riot, not a revolt against existing authority (to establish a new authority, which is the sine qua non of a revolt.)

Just amazing to see how many people will ignore the bloody frickin' obvious.
A Trump regime established by violence, and against the constitutional order, would indeed be a new authority.
Oldbear83
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The Trump haters are out in farce this morning!
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
whiterock
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curtpenn said:

J.B.Katz said:

Guy Noir said:

J.B.Katz said:

Money465 said:

I will make a decision about how credible Liz Cheney is after the Arizona Forensic Audit results are known, followed by the upcoming audit in Georgia of the mail-in ballots, followed by the probable audits soon to be held in Wisconsin and Michigan. When it is finally determined that every vote in these states can be attributed to live human beings ... then I will applaud Liz Cheney for her heroic stand! For the record, a recount is not the same as an audit.
"Forensic audit" is not an accurate description of what is happening in Arizona.

Liz Cheney's vote was tied to the Jan 6 activity.

Arizona recount is tied to the election. They are 2 separate events?
What is happening in Arizona is not a recount.

It is an attempt by the losers to rewrite history.

The lack of security and unprofessionalism are so egregious that the election equipment corrupted by the unprofessionals hired to do this "recount" may not be usable after whatever they're doing is completed.

Dems were pissed after the 2000 election. And they should have been. A state where Bush's brother was governor pushed GW Bush into office. Justice Scalia later admitted the SCOTUS decision broke with his "originalist" philosophy and that his ruling was based on the need for national stability. Gore won the popular vote.

Dems were pissed again when Hillary won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. They didn't pull the kind of **** Republicans are pulling in Arizona or do what Trump supporters did on Jan. 6. Hillary Clinton would never have encouraged her supporters to do what Trump encouraged his supporters to do. She cooperated with the bogus, fruitless Benghazi investigation forchrissakes.

BLM and Antifa is the excuse presented for Jan 6 and that's a nonstarter. Rioting and trashing public buildings is wrong no matter who does it, and anyone who does it should face consquences.

The election is over. Biden won it fair and square. Some people don't want to accept that. Their "leaders" shouldn't be encouraging and inciting insurrection by promoting the Big Lie. But McCarthy and McConnell are doing just that even though they both know Trump did not win the election.


"Fair and square" is irrelevant when those elected are an inherent threat to our republic. #BidenDelendaEst
at least he got the first sentence right.
whiterock
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Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Rawhide said:
Except the reality is the cop you mentioned was killed at the "insurrection" actually wasn't killed. You libs keep pushing that lie hoping people will buy your BS
TexasScientist said:
There are hours of video to sho that it was an insurrection. There is video of one insurrectionist using a baton to beat a police officer, and video of another insurrectionist using brass knuckles to hit a police officer.
When the liberal mob decided to burn cities, occupy government buildings, demand that gov't authority be defunded....when they decided forrm a new "country", threaten and harm innocent Americans, kill Trump supporters, beat white people, terrorize folks eating at restaurants..... what the hell was that? If THAT wasn't an insurrection, then what happened at the capitol building was f-u-c-k-i-n-g akin to an out-of-control kegger.
Yep, some of that was insurrection. But none of that was in an attempt to change the results of an election by storming the U.S. Capitol. That is treason.
Is it treason to steal an election?
Is it treason to have the power to stop an election from being stolen, yet do nothing?
Is it treason to demonstrate inside the halls of Congress to stop what you believe to be an illegal (or even simply undesirable) act from occurring?

Think carefully before you comment, as it could undermine beloved narratives on Russia Collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and court packing (Kavanaugh hearings).

I would advise ceasing the insurrection messaging. You are not moving needles on it because what happened manifestly does not fit the definition of the term. Doubling down only serves to incite concerns by others that you intend to engage in purges to consolidate power. (and it's not like progressives aren't sending those signals on other issues, so the context is very bad....)
Merriam Webster - Definition of insurrection
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Definition of treason
: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Go argue with the dictionary.


You are the one arguing with a dictionary. The 6 Jan riot was a riot, not a revolt against existing authority (to establish a new authority, which is the sine qua non of a revolt.)

Just amazing to see how many people will ignore the bloody frickin' obvious.
A Trump regime established by violence, and against the constitutional order, would indeed be a new authority.
Your reasoning fails at the third word and exists only on conjecture. There was manifestly no effort to establish a new, or even extra constitutional regime. It was an effort to ensure that existing elected officials used power they possessed in regular constitutional order to kick the certification process back to the state legislatures, as allowed by the constitution. there was no stated aim to establish anything new. The group had leader, no manifesto, no support beyond a small Facebook group, just a handful of zealots who thought they could cajole elected officials into changing their minds on certification. Had they indeed been organized by elected officials, as were the radicals who accosted well inside the personal space of GOP Senators in the halls of Congress during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, the situation would not have spiraled out of control like it did.

neverTrumpers remain so wedded to the post-WWII order, the pursuit of the "open society" which is failing all around us, that they increasingly share the Democrat reflex to see fascists everywhere as a way to obscure reality for which they have no new polices, only virtue posture that they are somehow better people because of the things they oppose.
Sam Lowry
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whiterock said:

Sam Lowry said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Rawhide said:
Except the reality is the cop you mentioned was killed at the "insurrection" actually wasn't killed. You libs keep pushing that lie hoping people will buy your BS
TexasScientist said:
There are hours of video to sho that it was an insurrection. There is video of one insurrectionist using a baton to beat a police officer, and video of another insurrectionist using brass knuckles to hit a police officer.
When the liberal mob decided to burn cities, occupy government buildings, demand that gov't authority be defunded....when they decided forrm a new "country", threaten and harm innocent Americans, kill Trump supporters, beat white people, terrorize folks eating at restaurants..... what the hell was that? If THAT wasn't an insurrection, then what happened at the capitol building was f-u-c-k-i-n-g akin to an out-of-control kegger.
Yep, some of that was insurrection. But none of that was in an attempt to change the results of an election by storming the U.S. Capitol. That is treason.
Is it treason to steal an election?
Is it treason to have the power to stop an election from being stolen, yet do nothing?
Is it treason to demonstrate inside the halls of Congress to stop what you believe to be an illegal (or even simply undesirable) act from occurring?

Think carefully before you comment, as it could undermine beloved narratives on Russia Collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and court packing (Kavanaugh hearings).

I would advise ceasing the insurrection messaging. You are not moving needles on it because what happened manifestly does not fit the definition of the term. Doubling down only serves to incite concerns by others that you intend to engage in purges to consolidate power. (and it's not like progressives aren't sending those signals on other issues, so the context is very bad....)
Merriam Webster - Definition of insurrection
: an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

Definition of treason
: the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family

Go argue with the dictionary.


You are the one arguing with a dictionary. The 6 Jan riot was a riot, not a revolt against existing authority (to establish a new authority, which is the sine qua non of a revolt.)

Just amazing to see how many people will ignore the bloody frickin' obvious.
A Trump regime established by violence, and against the constitutional order, would indeed be a new authority.
Your reasoning fail at the third word and exists only on conjecture. There was manifestly no effort to establish a new, or even extra constitutional regime. It was an effort to ensure that existing elected officials used power they possessed in regular constitutional order to kick the certification process back to the state legislatures, as allowed by the constitution. there was no stated aim to establish anything new. The group had leader, no manifesto, no support beyond a small Facebook group, just a handful of zealots who thought they could cajole elected officials into changing their minds on certification. Had they indeed been organized by elected officials, as were the radicals who accosted well inside the personal space of GOP Senators in the halls of Congress during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings, the situation would not have spiraled out of control like it did.

neverTrumpers remain so wedded to the post-WWII order, the pursuit of the "open society" which is failing all around us, that they increasingly share the Democrat reflex to see fascists everywhere as a way to obscure reality for which they have no new polices, only virtue posture that they are somehow better people because of the things they oppose.

"Cajole?" Did you actually write that with a straight face?

It was an attempt to force a certain outcome. The fact that it might have included some trappings of constitutional process doesn't change the nature of the thing.
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

Guy Noir said:

Oldbear83 said:

You need help, son.

I am not your son.
... but you definitely need help. Professional assistance.


Heh heh for what? Disagreeing with you? You are just throwing out ad hominems because I disagree with your opinion.
Mmmmmmmmmm, no. You need help because months after Trump left office, he lives in your noggin and drivre you to spew rants. For example, mention 'Obama' to Florda and see him fly off about something he still hasn't got past it.

You're doing the same thing, even if you don't see it.

Obama is more or less politically inactive, and is mostly irrelevant. Trump on the other hand is manipulating the party through intimidation and is laying the groundwork to regain the nomination in 04, which will guarantee the D's will keep the WH. So, Trump is very much relevant for discussion.
A very dishonest statement. For one thing, Obama is at least as involved in Democrat politics as Trump is in Republican politics. For another, Trump is not doing anything particularly active in terms of a 2024 campaign; it looks a lot more like he is playing wait and see, while people like you see him under every bed and table.

As for the Dems keeping the White House, their fear - and I suspect yours - is that they are on course to lose the House, maybe even the Senate, in 2022, because of their absurd behavior since taking control in 2019.

So the point remains. Your obsession is making you delusional.
Quote:

A very dishonest statement. For one thing, Obama is at least as involved in Democrat politics as Trump is in Republican politics. For another, Trump is not doing anything particularly active in terms of a 2024 campaign; it looks a lot more like he is playing wait and see, while people like you see him under every bed and table.
Wait and see??? He's reportedly raised as much as a $300 million war chest to campaign with, and he's authoritarian like demanding fealty to himself, and the purging of those in the party do not support him. I'd wait and see is more like pave the way.

Quote:

As for the Dems keeping the White House, their fear - and I suspect yours - is that they are on course to lose the House, maybe even the Senate, in 2022, because of their absurd behavior since taking control in 2019.

So the point remains. Your obsession is making you delusional.
I'd say it's delusional for you and the rest of the cult followers to believe the Trump can be re-elected, without R's like me voting for him. It's delusional for you to believe that the House will be regained if Trump is pulling the behind the scenes strings on the candidates.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Oldbear83
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There you go. I talk about the upcoming congressional and senate races, and you go Trump-Trump-Trump.

Just pitiful to see you reduced to such a level.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
 
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