Oldbear83 said:

---

You're very bitter.

Hope things get better for you.

---

As usual, just ignore the fact that you were dead wrong on the substance.

Bottom line is that this current Texas Legislative session ends May 31st. If the House doesn't accept the Senate's amendments, I think the Bill will have to go back to Committee and there probably isn't enough time to get it negotiated out, approved , and to the Gov's desk. We'll see what happens. One of you more astute political board members can correct me if I'm wrong.

Guy Noir said:

---

I disagree with this bill. I would be fine for most people but there are enough ding-dongs out there that are/would be dangerous to have possession of a gun without some training.

---

The people you should be afraid of will be armed regardless.

I believe there are 19 states with permitless carry. Have you seen any evidence that these states have experienced any negative effects?

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

I'd be on board with with requiring voters to successfully complete classroom training and demonstrate proficiency as well as spending a couple hundred dollars as prerequisites to vote. How about you?

Florda_mike said:

---

Booray said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

I prepared several days to get my ltc. How many days did you prepare to register to vote?

---

If the law passes you would spend zero time preparing. Why is it ok to have no burden on the right to bear arms and have greater burdens on the right to vote?

---

If your question had merit, which it doesn't at all, then undocumented people here with no licensing for anything could carry guns all over themselves without any consequences at all

Burdens to vote? Have you seen what some fools call our president??? Not my president!

Booray bringing foolishness as always

---

You renounced citizenship over politics? You still find ways of shocking me. I thought the bar for you, in my mind, was about as low as it could go...

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

You're very bitter.

Hope things get better for you.

---

As usual, just ignore the fact that you were dead wrong on the substance.

---

I was not wrong, and you are seriously bitter.

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future."

BS. The DPS is open today for walk-ins.

Driving tests need to be scheduled, simple ID is walk-in if you want.

---

The DPS website explains it.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/news/dps-expanding-hours-select-driver-license-offices

Summary:

Only selected offices are open extended hours (either one weekday evening or on Saturday). Those openings are based on built up demand from the offices being closed during the pandemic and the hours are not permanent. And when they say "selected offices" they mean offices in urban centers. Large urban centers. The Waco office is Monday through Friday only, closes at 5:00. As are the vast majority of offices in Texas.

Next, there is no walk-in. All services are by appointment only. It may be possible that you can walk-in and schedule an immediate appointment but that is complete luck of the draw. And as I said, in Waco the appointments are backed up for more than a month.

You can believe what the DPS says about it own procedures or you can continue living in a fantasy world where climate change doesn't happen, cutting taxes decreases deficits, Trump got more votes than Biden and it takes 15 minutes to get an ID card. Don't really care which reality you choose.

---

Go get a passport then. On-line application and a trip to the post office.

I actually think that the Concealed Carry program in Texas is good. My wife and I are both CHL owners. Our course was really good. Really makes you think about what it takes for you to use lethal force. Very thought provoking.

There is some cost in getting a Concealed Handgun License. I just wonder why the Libs are out in droves to support Constitutional Carry because Concealed Carry puts a financial hardship on the poor and minorities? Where are they?

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

I actually think that the Concealed Carry program in Texas is good. My wife and I are both CHL owners. Our course was really good. Really makes you think about what it takes for you to use lethal force. Very thought provoking.

There is some cost in getting a Concealed Handgun License. I just wonder why the Libs are out in droves to support Constitutional Carry because Concealed Carry puts a financial hardship on the poor and minorities? Where are they?

---

If I remember correctly, then I had to possess valid photo ID to get my LTC.

Carlos Cruz said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

I actually think that the Concealed Carry program in Texas is good. My wife and I are both CHL owners. Our course was really good. Really makes you think about what it takes for you to use lethal force. Very thought provoking.

There is some cost in getting a Concealed Handgun License. I just wonder why the Libs are out in droves to support Constitutional Carry because Concealed Carry puts a financial hardship on the poor and minorities? Where are they?

---

If I remember correctly, then I had to possess valid photo ID to get my LTC.

---

Yes. During the fingerprint process.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future."

BS. The DPS is open today for walk-ins.

Driving tests need to be scheduled, simple ID is walk-in if you want.

---

The DPS website explains it.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/news/dps-expanding-hours-select-driver-license-offices

Summary:

Only selected offices are open extended hours (either one weekday evening or on Saturday). Those openings are based on built up demand from the offices being closed during the pandemic and the hours are not permanent. And when they say "selected offices" they mean offices in urban centers. Large urban centers. The Waco office is Monday through Friday only, closes at 5:00. As are the vast majority of offices in Texas.

Next, there is no walk-in. All services are by appointment only. It may be possible that you can walk-in and schedule an immediate appointment but that is complete luck of the draw. And as I said, in Waco the appointments are backed up for more than a month.

You can believe what the DPS says about it own procedures or you can continue living in a fantasy world where climate change doesn't happen, cutting taxes decreases deficits, Trump got more votes than Biden and it takes 15 minutes to get an ID card. Don't really care which reality you choose.

---

Go get a passport then. On-line application and a trip to the post office.

---

Passport costs $110.00. Should not have to pay that to vote

Booray said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

"First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future."

BS. The DPS is open today for walk-ins.

Driving tests need to be scheduled, simple ID is walk-in if you want.

---

The DPS website explains it.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/news/dps-expanding-hours-select-driver-license-offices

Summary:

Only selected offices are open extended hours (either one weekday evening or on Saturday). Those openings are based on built up demand from the offices being closed during the pandemic and the hours are not permanent. And when they say "selected offices" they mean offices in urban centers. Large urban centers. The Waco office is Monday through Friday only, closes at 5:00. As are the vast majority of offices in Texas.

Next, there is no walk-in. All services are by appointment only. It may be possible that you can walk-in and schedule an immediate appointment but that is complete luck of the draw. And as I said, in Waco the appointments are backed up for more than a month.

You can believe what the DPS says about it own procedures or you can continue living in a fantasy world where climate change doesn't happen, cutting taxes decreases deficits, Trump got more votes than Biden and it takes 15 minutes to get an ID card. Don't really care which reality you choose.

---

Go get a passport then. On-line application and a trip to the post office.

---

Passport costs $110.00. Should not have to pay that to vote

---

You are not paying $110 to vote. You are paying $110 for a passport. And, yes, you should pay $110 for your photo ID if you cannot be bothered to wait it out and pay $20 at the DMV for a DL or ID.


White Liberals Watch In Amazement As Black Man Acquires ID

Don't be disingenuous. The conversation is about how difficult and/or expensive it is to get a voting ID. The passport was suggested as an alternative to the driver's license/ID card process because DPS is difficult to access. Growl Towel makes the point that passports are more easily accessed. At a cost of $110.00. We are only having this discussion based on the use of the document as a voter ID so, yes the person would be paying $110.00 for a passport so he or she could vote. Should not have to do that.

Again, I am fine with voter ID laws so long as those voter IDs are readily accessible, The answer to the issue is to either fund DPS to allow weekend and after work visits, make sure that someone with proper paperwork can get an ID on a drop-in basis in a reasonable time (say an hour) and make sure DPS offices are within a reasonable distance of all Texans. Where DPS cannot meet that criteria, empower another government entity or private entity that can.

Of course, that answer is built on the assumption that those advocating for voter ID are actually concerned about vote fraud despite their inability to find it anywhere. We all know the assumption is incorrect-voter ID proponents are just trying to win elections by making it hard to vote.

It is a despicable and anti-American tactic.

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Lol, Democrat hogwash. In the same breath where you think undocumented immigrants vote.

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Actually it is a GOP talking point:

https://www.kaporcenter.org/florida-gop-leaders-admit-voter-suppression-was-motive-behind-voter-laws/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/supreme-court-gop-attorney-defends-voting-restrictions-saying-they-help-n1259305

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/03/26/no-more-pretending-republicans-admit-vote-restrictions-are-all-about-winning/

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-trump-adviser-republicans-rely-voter-suppression-justin-clark-2019-12

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/03/02/arizona-gop-lawyer-admits-real-reason-wants-election-reform/6895380002/

I could post twenty more, but you get the point. Its not a secret-the GOP wants to suppress turnout because suppression helps it win. That is uncomfortable for you to admit but it is the absolute truth as evidenced by GOP strategists and lawyers saying that exact thing over and over.

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Lol, Democrat hogwash. In the same breath where you think undocumented immigrants vote.

---

And you believe they haven't.... you're an idiot

"It is a despicable and anti-American tactic."

A good description of the Left's behavior on this issue.

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Actually it is a GOP talking point:

https://www.kaporcenter.org/florida-gop-leaders-admit-voter-suppression-was-motive-behind-voter-laws/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/supreme-court-gop-attorney-defends-voting-restrictions-saying-they-help-n1259305

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/03/26/no-more-pretending-republicans-admit-vote-restrictions-are-all-about-winning/

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-trump-adviser-republicans-rely-voter-suppression-justin-clark-2019-12

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/03/02/arizona-gop-lawyer-admits-real-reason-wants-election-reform/6895380002/

I could post twenty more, but you get the point. Its not a secret-the GOP wants to suppress turnout because suppression helps it win. That is uncomfortable for you to admit but it is the absolute truth as evidenced by GOP strategists and lawyers saying that exact thing over and over.

---

Opinion pieces with speculation and taking what was said out of context.

The truth is that the democrats want to make it easy to cast illegal votes. They have zero concern for the integrity of our elections.

I won't bother to post links to various articles or opinion pieces where a democrat admitted to committing voter fraud.

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Actually it is a GOP talking point:

https://www.kaporcenter.org/florida-gop-leaders-admit-voter-suppression-was-motive-behind-voter-laws/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/supreme-court-gop-attorney-defends-voting-restrictions-saying-they-help-n1259305

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/03/26/no-more-pretending-republicans-admit-vote-restrictions-are-all-about-winning/

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-trump-adviser-republicans-rely-voter-suppression-justin-clark-2019-12

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/03/02/arizona-gop-lawyer-admits-real-reason-wants-election-reform/6895380002/

I could post twenty more, but you get the point. Its not a secret-the GOP wants to suppress turnout because suppression helps it win. That is uncomfortable for you to admit but it is the absolute truth as evidenced by GOP strategists and lawyers saying that exact thing over and over.

---

Opinion pieces with speculation and taking what was said out of context.

The truth is that the democrats want to make it easy to cast illegal votes. They have zero concern for the integrity of our elections.

I won't bother to post links to various articles or opinion pieces where a democrat admitted to committing voter fraud.

---

One of those quotes was from an argument made at The Supreme Court. You can't admit the truth of what these people said because it is immoral and it makes your argument immoral.

So you say "out of context" and "it was mentioned in an opinion piece" like that somehow changes the meaning of the words that GOP strategists and lawyers used. Straight up denial of the facts, jus like the straight up denial that millions more American citizens eligible and registered to vote cast their ballots for Joe Biden over Donald Trump.

Pathetic that the GOP has become a party of fantasists.

---

the democrats have become a party of nothing more than a mob made up unhinged anti-american communists that believe America is the worst country in the world, responsible for all of mankind's ills.

democrats care nothing about the people they took an oath to serve. They only care about power and money and power.

The stooges on the left are nothing more than their pawns.

---

The difference in the insults we are hurling at each other is that mine are supported by evidence; and not just any evidence. Evidence of the best kind-admissions caught on tape. Your insults are supported by zero.

The truth is that there are many good people with America's best interests at heart in both parties. Unfortunately, the current preoccupation and most important issue of the GOP is to undermine our elections. Eventually saner heads will prevail, but until they do they deserve contempt.

---

Like I said, I could post links to articles where democrat operatives admitted they've been committing voter fraud for years, but I won't because frankly, you already know it or should know it.

I laugh that you think requiring people to show and ID is the GOP trying to undermine our elections. The fact that democrats want little to no safeguards for election integrity show that your "truth" proves to be the exact opposite.

You misrepresent the inconvenience of obtaining an ID and to try to paint it as if it's akin to getting a root canal. Hell, signing up for and receiving welfare or other gov't assistance literally requires more time and effort (and ID).

Democrats care nothing about election integrity and many on your side believe that illegals should have the right to vote anyway. Dems are doing nothing spinning the voter id requirement as something it is simply not. Or it could be that you liberals actually do believe black people are too stupid or lazy to get an id - talk about racist.

---

Love the "I could provide evidence but chose not to" line. Such powerful logic.

I have said about a million times I am not opposed to voter ID. The undermining elections is about the nonsense Trumpkins are spouting now about how the election was stolen and making it harder to vote. That includes shortened poll hours, less and frequently moved poll locations, shorter early voting periods and opposition to no excuse needed absentee voting. None of those have anything to do with vote fraud (in fact the opposite-some lessen the possibility of vote fraud). But you want to strawman and say I am against voter ID. That is flatly not true and my posts on this thread and going back years prove it.

I am for making voter ID easy. You say I misrepresent it; what I represented is exactly what the DPS says. Getting a Voter ID card-or a drivers license is not easy, particularly if you are poor or live in rural areas. Somehow saying we should make DPS more customer oriented is a communist plot.

The truth is too ugly for you to admit apparently. The GOP for the last 15 years has tried to suppress the vote because when more American citizens vote, the GOP does not do as well. Once again, that is not me talking. That is GOP strategists and lawyers who saying that.

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Don't be disingenuous. The conversation is about how difficult and/or expensive it is to get a voting ID. The passport was suggested as an alternative to the driver's license/ID card process because DPS is difficult to access. Growl Towel makes the point that passports are more easily accessed. At a cost of $110.00. We are only having this discussion based on the use of the document as a voter ID so, yes the person would be paying $110.00 for a passport so he or she could vote. Should not have to do that.

Again, I am fine with voter ID laws so long as those voter IDs are readily accessible, The answer to the issue is to either fund DPS to allow weekend and after work visits, make sure that someone with proper paperwork can get an ID on a drop-in basis in a reasonable time (say an hour) and make sure DPS offices are within a reasonable distance of all Texans. Where DPS cannot meet that criteria, empower another government entity or private entity that can.

Of course, that answer is built on the assumption that those advocating for voter ID are actually concerned about vote fraud despite their inability to find it anywhere. We all know the assumption is incorrect-voter ID proponents are just trying to win elections by making it hard to vote.

It is a despicable and anti-American tactic.

---

The only thing that is dispicable and anti-American is thinking that someone cannot suffer a little expense and inconvenience to be able to vote. You think pretty little of both your fellow American and the voting franchise.

---

We outlawed poll taxes a long time ago. And I think I made it clear I don't mind a "little inconvenience" but the system currently (at least in Texas) imposes more than that.

Why are you so afraid of people voting?

Booray said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Don't be disingenuous. The conversation is about how difficult and/or expensive it is to get a voting ID. The passport was suggested as an alternative to the driver's license/ID card process because DPS is difficult to access. Growl Towel makes the point that passports are more easily accessed. At a cost of $110.00. We are only having this discussion based on the use of the document as a voter ID so, yes the person would be paying $110.00 for a passport so he or she could vote. Should not have to do that.

Again, I am fine with voter ID laws so long as those voter IDs are readily accessible, The answer to the issue is to either fund DPS to allow weekend and after work visits, make sure that someone with proper paperwork can get an ID on a drop-in basis in a reasonable time (say an hour) and make sure DPS offices are within a reasonable distance of all Texans. Where DPS cannot meet that criteria, empower another government entity or private entity that can.

Of course, that answer is built on the assumption that those advocating for voter ID are actually concerned about vote fraud despite their inability to find it anywhere. We all know the assumption is incorrect-voter ID proponents are just trying to win elections by making it hard to vote.

It is a despicable and anti-American tactic.

---

The only thing that is dispicable and anti-American is thinking that someone cannot suffer a little expense and inconvenience to be able to vote. You think pretty little of both your fellow American and the voting franchise.

---

We outlawed poll taxes a long time ago. And I think I made it clear I don't mind a "little inconvenience" but the system currently (at least in Texas) imposes more than that.

Why are you so afraid of people voting?

---

It is not a poll tax to produce identification. It is not a poll tax to go to DMV. People are required to do both everyday. Why are you so afraid of election integrity?

The election was rigged and half the country feels disenfranchised and suppressed. Many, many Americans feel like their vote no longer counts and the security of free and fair elections evaporated in November of 2020. To put it simply, 81 million people did not vote for a man that did not even bother to campaign and is in the early stages of dementia.

States can either fix it and bring integrity back to the election process, or another tainted election will be the very least of our problems.

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Lol, Democrat hogwash. In the same breath where you think undocumented immigrants vote.

---

And you believe they haven't.... you're an idiot

---

Less than a dozen and yet enough to put you into a perma-meltdown.

If I'm an idiot prove me wrong. I double dog dare ya. I won't even hold you to 2022: take a decade.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

The election was rigged and half the country feels disenfranchised and suppressed. Many, many Americans feel like their vote no longer counts and the security of free and fair elections evaporated in November of 2020. To put it simply, 81 million people did not vote for a man that did not even bother to campaign and is in the early stages of dementia.

States can either fix it and bring integrity back to the election process, or another tainted election will be the very least of our problems.

---

Sorry about your feels but the facts say you are wrong.

We found out our electoral systems and processes were flawed in 2000. There was popular support to upgrade them but that support got derailed for Voter ID, which didn't solve the problems that were five orders of magnitude larger than vote fraud.

You could improve your accuracy significantly by attacking voter intelligence instead of repeating the Big Lie.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

The election was rigged and half the country feels disenfranchised and suppressed. Many, many Americans feel like their vote no longer counts and the security of free and fair elections evaporated in November of 2020. To put it simply, 81 million people did not vote for a man that did not even bother to campaign and is in the early stages of dementia.

States can either fix it and bring integrity back to the election process, or another tainted election will be the very least of our problems.

---

Sorry, but they did. Georgia is the perfect example. GOP governor and Secretary of State. Two meticulous recounts, one a recount of every single ballot. They can't find anything-nothing, zero, nada, zilch.

What you keep missing is the fact that a huge swath of America hates Donald Trump. They would have voted for Mickey Mouse if he were the Democratic candidate.

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Don't be disingenuous. The conversation is about how difficult and/or expensive it is to get a voting ID. The passport was suggested as an alternative to the driver's license/ID card process because DPS is difficult to access. Growl Towel makes the point that passports are more easily accessed. At a cost of $110.00. We are only having this discussion based on the use of the document as a voter ID so, yes the person would be paying $110.00 for a passport so he or she could vote. Should not have to do that.

Again, I am fine with voter ID laws so long as those voter IDs are readily accessible, The answer to the issue is to either fund DPS to allow weekend and after work visits, make sure that someone with proper paperwork can get an ID on a drop-in basis in a reasonable time (say an hour) and make sure DPS offices are within a reasonable distance of all Texans. Where DPS cannot meet that criteria, empower another government entity or private entity that can.

Of course, that answer is built on the assumption that those advocating for voter ID are actually concerned about vote fraud despite their inability to find it anywhere. We all know the assumption is incorrect-voter ID proponents are just trying to win elections by making it hard to vote.

It is a despicable and anti-American tactic.

---

The only thing that is dispicable and anti-American is thinking that someone cannot suffer a little expense and inconvenience to be able to vote. You think pretty little of both your fellow American and the voting franchise.

---

We outlawed poll taxes a long time ago. And I think I made it clear I don't mind a "little inconvenience" but the system currently (at least in Texas) imposes more than that.

Why are you so afraid of people voting?

---

It is not a poll tax to produce identification. It is not a poll tax to go to DMV. People are required to do both everyday. Why are you so afraid of election integrity?

---

Again disingenuous. I have made it abundantly clear that I have no problem with using the DMV to produce voter ID cards if the DMV is reasonably accessible.

The suggestion to use passports as an alternative to state ID cards imposes a $110.00 fee so if the purpose of the passport is to be able to vote, that is a significant amount and a poll tax.

The GOP in Texas could make this easy by appropriately funding the availability of voter ID cards. They don't want to do that because they don't want people to get voter ID cards. Its not about election integrity its about suppression. As the many GOP strategists and lawyers I quoted made abundantly clear.

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Actually it is a GOP talking point:

https://www.kaporcenter.org/florida-gop-leaders-admit-voter-suppression-was-motive-behind-voter-laws/

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/supreme-court-gop-attorney-defends-voting-restrictions-saying-they-help-n1259305

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2021/03/26/no-more-pretending-republicans-admit-vote-restrictions-are-all-about-winning/

https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-trump-adviser-republicans-rely-voter-suppression-justin-clark-2019-12

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2021/03/02/arizona-gop-lawyer-admits-real-reason-wants-election-reform/6895380002/

I could post twenty more, but you get the point. Its not a secret-the GOP wants to suppress turnout because suppression helps it win. That is uncomfortable for you to admit but it is the absolute truth as evidenced by GOP strategists and lawyers saying that exact thing over and over.

---

Opinion pieces with speculation and taking what was said out of context.

The truth is that the democrats want to make it easy to cast illegal votes. They have zero concern for the integrity of our elections.

I won't bother to post links to various articles or opinion pieces where a democrat admitted to committing voter fraud.

---

One of those quotes was from an argument made at The Supreme Court. You can't admit the truth of what these people said because it is immoral and it makes your argument immoral.

So you say "out of context" and "it was mentioned in an opinion piece" like that somehow changes the meaning of the words that GOP strategists and lawyers used. Straight up denial of the facts, jus like the straight up denial that millions more American citizens eligible and registered to vote cast their ballots for Joe Biden over Donald Trump.

Pathetic that the GOP has become a party of fantasists.

---

the democrats have become a party of nothing more than a mob made up unhinged anti-american communists that believe America is the worst country in the world, responsible for all of mankind's ills.

democrats care nothing about the people they took an oath to serve. They only care about power and money and power.

The stooges on the left are nothing more than their pawns.

---

All the more reason we need a sane, reality-based alternative.

Booray said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

The election was rigged and half the country feels disenfranchised and suppressed. Many, many Americans feel like their vote no longer counts and the security of free and fair elections evaporated in November of 2020. To put it simply, 81 million people did not vote for a man that did not even bother to campaign and is in the early stages of dementia.

States can either fix it and bring integrity back to the election process, or another tainted election will be the very least of our problems.

---

What you keep missing is the fact that a huge swath of America hates Donald Trump. They would have voted for Mickey Mouse if he were the Democratic candidate.

---

Mickey Mouse will have a much greater chance of winning the Presidency in 2024 than any Republican. Thousands and thousands of new Democratic voters enter through our Southern border each week.

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Booray said:

---

Friscobear said:

---

Booray said:

---

How do you square the idea that "getting a LTC is just too time consuming to bother with so lets not worry about it" with "if you want to vote you should make time to get the proper ID and get registered?"

---

Those two things are not even close in difficulty.

If something is important to you, you'll find the time to do it.

---

The point of the legislation is to make it do one has to spend zero dollars and spend zero time to qualify to carry. Let's apply the same standard to voting.

---

I have no problem with that. Last time I checked, you need a state issued ID to purchase a firearm. Same standard should apply to voting

---

And I have no problem with that. As long as we make those state issued IDs easy to obtain. Which we don't do.

---

Very easy to obtain, actually.

---

No kidding. Here are the steps to procure a Texas State ID:

[ol]

Complete the identification card application

Make an appointment at a driver license office.

Provide the following documentation to the license and permit specialist:
[ol]

Application

U.S. Citizenship or, if you are not a U.S. Citizen, evidence of lawful presence

Texas Residency

Identity, and

Social Security Number

[/ol]

Provide your thumbprints.

Have your picture taken.

Pay the application

[/ol]
Booray thinks that's difficult?

Maybe if people could just purchase an ID from amazon.com and have it delivered to them in 2 days, that would make him happy.

---

My wife has an employee that needed to do this. First appointment at the driver's license office was 7 weeks in the future.

Have you ever tried to conduct business in person at a Texas Driver's License office? They are incredibly inefficient, open limited hours and in West Texas can be an hour or more to get to.

So on paper it looks simple. For many hourly workers without regular transportation it is a big obstacle.

The GOP knows this and is using it to make it difficult to qualify to vote. It is a disgusting tactic.

If you will open the offices on Saturday, one night a week and contract to have substations at the local Walmart in underserved counties, I have no problem with voter ID. But you won't because this has zero to do with vote fraud. It has everything to do with keeping turnout low at all costs.

---

I have no problems with open Saturdays and extra locations. You libs want to stop the wall, open the border and allow illegal aliens to waltz right so they can vote for democrats candidates. It's all about getting more votes (even illegitimate) with no concern for the integrity of our elections.

The dnc talking point of the GOP trying to keep black people from voting is pure hogwash and you know it.

---

Lol, Democrat hogwash. In the same breath where you think undocumented immigrants vote.

---

And you believe they haven't.... you're an idiot

---

Less than a dozen and yet enough to put you into a perma-meltdown.

If I'm an idiot prove me wrong. I double dog dare ya. I won't even hold you to 2022: take a decade.

---

You're like a little gnat. "I double dog dare ya", how old are you?

Grow up child

Booray said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Booray said:

---

Don't be disingenuous. The conversation is about how difficult and/or expensive it is to get a voting ID. The passport was suggested as an alternative to the driver's license/ID card process because DPS is difficult to access. Growl Towel makes the point that passports are more easily accessed. At a cost of $110.00. We are only having this discussion based on the use of the document as a voter ID so, yes the person would be paying $110.00 for a passport so he or she could vote. Should not have to do that.

Again, I am fine with voter ID laws so long as those voter IDs are readily accessible, The answer to the issue is to either fund DPS to allow weekend and after work visits, make sure that someone with proper paperwork can get an ID on a drop-in basis in a reasonable time (say an hour) and make sure DPS offices are within a reasonable distance of all Texans. Where DPS cannot meet that criteria, empower another government entity or private entity that can.

Of course, that answer is built on the assumption that those advocating for voter ID are actually concerned about vote fraud despite their inability to find it anywhere. We all know the assumption is incorrect-voter ID proponents are just trying to win elections by making it hard to vote.

It is a despicable and anti-American tactic.

---

The only thing that is dispicable and anti-American is thinking that someone cannot suffer a little expense and inconvenience to be able to vote. You think pretty little of both your fellow American and the voting franchise.

---

We outlawed poll taxes a long time ago. And I think I made it clear I don't mind a "little inconvenience" but the system currently (at least in Texas) imposes more than that.

Why are you so afraid of people voting?

---

It is not a poll tax to produce identification. It is not a poll tax to go to DMV. People are required to do both everyday. Why are you so afraid of election integrity?

---

Again disingenuous. I have made it abundantly clear that I have no problem with using the DMV to produce voter ID cards if the DMV is reasonably accessible.

---

The DMV is reasonably accessible. It is easier to get in line for the DMV now than it was to go to church or synagogue the past year.