Breaking the Educational-academic complex's stranglehold

1,490 Views | 8 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Whiskey Pete
Redbrickbear
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[A college education and a college degree are not the same thing, writes Chicago Tribune columnist Clarence Page. "Degree inflation" requiring a four-year degree for jobs that never required one in the past is shutting out two-thirds of the population.

A new corporate initiative, OneTen, will try to train a million black Americans over the next 10 years for jobs that pay enough to support a family but don't require a four-year degree to start, writes Page. If it works, it will be expanded to others.

Page suggests another way to help bright, competent people get a shot at good jobs, even if they don't have the time and money to complete a bachelor's degree. Develop a "collegiate version of the GED (General Educational Development tests) long used by high school dropouts to earn a high school equivalency diploma."]

[Page got the idea from Ohio University's Richard Vedder, his former economics professor, who's the author of a 2004 book called, Going Broke By Degree: Why College Costs Too Much.

"The concept and benefits of testing are well established," Vedder told Page. "The military, the government the foreign service exam is a very good example everybody does it and they get favorable results."

Vedder explains what he calls the National College Equivalence Test (NCET) in Forbes.
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Like most important examinations, the college GED test would have to be pretty long, say at least three hours. It would include a general education component, asking questions that most college educated persons should be able to answer, in many fields history, political science, literature, science, mathematics, etc. It might test for critical thinking skills and writing ability by incorporating into the exam a test like the Collegiate Learning Assessment. Finally perhaps 25 percent of the test should be based on more intensive knowledge of a specific field (such as what a college major usually provides), where the test taker picks the field on which to be questioned.
"We need cheaper, less wasteful ways of certifying competence to enter the workforce than requiring students to spend $100,000 or more on a piece of paper," Vedder concludes.]


https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardvedder/2021/05/17/a-collegiate-ged-the-time-is-now/?sh=6f0cd98410a2
Forest Bueller_bf
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I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
El Oso
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Interesting idea. I'm working on my third degree. My brothers don't have one between them. We've all done well in life. Not having a degree is a minor issue for them, but not one that can't be worked around, especially now that they have 20+ years of industry experience in fields that get re-invented frequently making a degree in that area not really worth something of value other than every job "requires" one if you go through formal channels to get it.

I understand completely this idea that college is not needed for everyone and should not be held out as an obstacle to a career where industry experience will teach you what you really need to know..

My immediate concern is cost. I didn't see anything about costs of the exams and costs could create an access issue. I remember being broke as **** and $100 for the GRE being a pretty substantial (but not insurmountable) obstacle in the late 90s.

A few other concerns, but I'll start there.
Doc Holliday
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
A lot of engineering jobs I've seen don't really use engineering concepts learned in college, they're pretty much glorified accounting jobs and all the real engineering is done by 3rd parties.
Jacques Strap
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
I would add that we only need government student loans for degrees where the investment is worth it to society and/or the degree is good collateral for the loan such as nursing, engineering, accounting, finance, etc. You know degrees where you don't wind up working at Starbucks like gender studies.

Also gov. loans for training in plumbing, truck driving, HVAC, electrician
Canon
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Jacques Strap said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
I would add that we only need government student loans for degrees where the investment is worth it to society and/or the degree is good collateral for the loan such as nursing, engineering, accounting, finance, etc. You know degrees where you don't wind up working at Starbucks like gender studies.

Also gov. loans for training in plumbing, truck driving, HVAC, electrician


I just had a handyman and electrician over to my house to sort a few things out. They are both doing well financially (not rich but well off). Neither was going to be able to talk about international politics or economics with alacrity, but who cares? They were competent at what they did and neither had or needed a degree. We place far too much emphasis on sending every kid to college.
Bobby T. Woodard
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>I agree with him 100%.
Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

I add the reason: the high stakes - people's lives.
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Whiskey Pete
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Forest Bueller_bf said:

I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
I don't know about that... a degree in underwater basket weaving could really come in handy
Whiskey Pete
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Canon said:

Jacques Strap said:

Forest Bueller_bf said:

I agree with him 100%.

Doctors, Engineers, Architects, Dentist, Accountants, Meteorologist etc. yea they need advanced degrees.

Most really don't.
I would add that we only need government student loans for degrees where the investment is worth it to society and/or the degree is good collateral for the loan such as nursing, engineering, accounting, finance, etc. You know degrees where you don't wind up working at Starbucks like gender studies.

Also gov. loans for training in plumbing, truck driving, HVAC, electrician


I just had a handyman and electrician over to my house to sort a few things out. They are both doing well financially (not rich but well off). Neither was going to be able to talk about international politics or economics with alacrity, but who cares? They were competent at what they did and neither had or needed a degree. We place far too much emphasis on sending every kid to college.
I had a guy over to mow my lawn. His degree in gender studies seem to have benefited him well.
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