Oldbear83 said:

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Credible witnesses can be wrong, and often are.

As to the rest, not buying it.

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PartyBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I didn't say there are no other life forms elsewhere in the universe. I believe there is a high probability of other life. How ubiquitous are advanced life forms is the question, which I think will be rare, when you consider the size and scale of the Universe, inherent risk of survival, and time required to evolve.

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Again this is with a rather earth/human centric view of the types of environments life can exist in. I do not think it is necessarily true that life including advanced civilization can only exist on duplicates or extremely close to duplicates of earth. I also do not necessarily think it true that every species in the universe or even in the galaxy if others exist have to evolve on a timeline similar or the same to how it happened on earth.

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My view is not earth centric. It is an objective view based upon what is overly apparent about the nature of the universe. It is universe centric. There very well may be life, elsewhere in our solar system. For instance Enceladus may harbor life in its oceans, but there is no evidence of an advanced form of life. That is not inconsistent with my view that the Universe is hostile to any form of life. It's hostile to life on this planet, and at some point in the future life on this planet will, at the very least, end due to cosmological events.

Could our view of the universe not be rather earth/human centric? I would think by definition it only can be. If there are any advanced civilizations out there, they have not shared their discoveries and research with us for example. We have to be open to the possibility and frankly the probability that we don't know much about this galaxy let alone the infinite number of other ones. We don't even know much about any other solar system and our solar system is among an almost infinite number of them in our own galaxy.

It is somewhat circular to say, based on what we know now, we know about all there is to know about nature throughout the entire universe. And the conclusion that therefore we can rule out being open to any questions about what we know now isn't much different that conclusions brought on by the religions of humans.

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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See the two of you are doing what I'm talking about above or maybe it was the other thread on this topic. You may be right that there is not another planet that humans, dogs, cats, whales, bears, trout, palm trees, pine trees etc are growing on, but life as we know it here probably is not the limit of the possibilities of life forms in the whole universe, let alone in this galaxy.

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I didn't say there are no other life forms elsewhere in the universe. I believe there is a high probability of other life. How ubiquitous are advanced life forms is the question, which I think will be rare, when you consider the size and scale of the Universe, inherent risk of survival, and time required to evolve.

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Again this is with a rather earth/human centric view of the types of environments life can exist in. I do not think it is necessarily true that life including advanced civilization can only exist on duplicates or extremely close to duplicates of earth. I also do not necessarily think it true that every species in the universe or even in the galaxy if others exist have to evolve on a timeline similar or the same to how it happened on earth.

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My view is not earth centric. It is an objective view based upon what is overly apparent about the nature of the universe. It is universe centric. There very well may be life, elsewhere in our solar system. For instance Enceladus may harbor life in its oceans, but there is no evidence of an advanced form of life. That is not inconsistent with my view that the Universe is hostile to any form of life. It's hostile to life on this planet, and at some point in the future life on this planet will, at the very least, end due to cosmological events.

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Agreed. Also, what we know from Science tells us that complex life is always much more rare than simpler forms. Our "first contact" with legit alien life is likely to be spores on a moon or asteroid.

Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Well.... at this time at least, there is no documented declassified evidence of ETs walking around on earth. Even so if there was, that would not be evidence that those ETs are the only forms of life that are well ahead of humans on earth in this galaxy or any other galaxy. Additionally if there were documented ETs from another region of the galaxy that have traveled to here, it means they have technology we are not far enough along to even begin to fathom including technology that allows them to walk around in an environment that is completely alien and harsh for them.

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Second, you can't just say "technology" to wave away the laws of Physics which apply.

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Scuba, airplanes, cellphones say Hi.

quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Well.... at this time at least, there is no documented declassified evidence of ETs walking around on earth. Even so if there was, that would not be evidence that those ETs are the only forms of life that are well ahead of humans on earth in this galaxy or any other galaxy. Additionally if there were documented ETs from another region of the galaxy that have traveled to here, it means they have technology we are not far enough along to even begin to fathom including technology that allows them to walk around in an environment that is completely alien and harsh for them.

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Second, you can't just say "technology" to wave away the laws of Physics which apply.

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Scuba, airplanes, cellphones say Hi.

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News flash, laws of Physics apply there. Sorry to break your bubble, unicorn.

If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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Well.... at this time at least, there is no documented declassified evidence of ETs walking around on earth. Even so if there was, that would not be evidence that those ETs are the only forms of life that are well ahead of humans on earth in this galaxy or any other galaxy. Additionally if there were documented ETs from another region of the galaxy that have traveled to here, it means they have technology we are not far enough along to even begin to fathom including technology that allows them to walk around in an environment that is completely alien and harsh for them.

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Second, you can't just say "technology" to wave away the laws of Physics which apply.

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Scuba, airplanes, cellphones say Hi.

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News flash, laws of Physics apply there. Sorry to break your bubble, unicorn.

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Exactly.

And when aliens come here they will be technologically prepared for what you have chosen to call "local physics".

PartyBear said:

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If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

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That is a fallacy, since we do at least understand the rudimentary principles of Physics.

PartyBear said:

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If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

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The last of Clarke's Three Laws.

Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

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That is a fallacy, since we do at least understand the rudimentary principles of Physics.

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Well.....ok I can agree we know that. That is not inconsistent with what I said. I suspect that rudimentary levels are not the highest levels there is to know.

quash said:

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PartyBear said:

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If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

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The last of Clarke's Three Laws.

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Pretty sure fiction is not peer-reviewed, so ...

PartyBear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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PartyBear said:

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If the eye witnesses of the airforce are correct, why do you think the laws of physics are not applicable to what they say they saw. Technology if it is not understood can appear to be defying the laws of nature to the observer who does not understand it.

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That is a fallacy, since we do at least understand the rudimentary principles of Physics.

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Well.....ok I can agree we know that. That is not inconsistent with what I said. I suspect that rudimentary levels are not the highest levels there is to know.

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There is a lot we don't know about physics, especially at the quantum level where things do not comport with logic or common sense, i.e. 'spooky action at a distance."

We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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Good post.

PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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We know that certain microbe extremophiles can travel through space and survive, which raises the possibility that life originated elsewhere and was seeded here by meteorites, asteroids or even comets.

TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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We know that certain microbe extremophiles can travel through space and survive, which raises the possibility that life originated elsewhere and was seeded here by meteorites, asteroids or even comets.

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My understanding is that meteorites, asteroids and comets are contained within their sun's gravitational pull, so any such seeding would still be intrasolar in range.

Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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We know that certain microbe extremophiles can travel through space and survive, which raises the possibility that life originated elsewhere and was seeded here by meteorites, asteroids or even comets.

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My understanding is that meteorites, asteroids and comets are contained within their sun's gravitational pull, so any such seeding would still be intrasolar in range.

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Most objects coming our way originate from from the Kuiper belt, but there are interstellar objects traveling through space.

TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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We know that certain microbe extremophiles can travel through space and survive, which raises the possibility that life originated elsewhere and was seeded here by meteorites, asteroids or even comets.

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My understanding is that meteorites, asteroids and comets are contained within their sun's gravitational pull, so any such seeding would still be intrasolar in range.

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Most objects coming our way originate from from the Kuiper belt, but there are interstellar objects traveling through space.

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Do the math, keeping mind how many forces would sterilize anything that passes through.

Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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PartyBear said:

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We have never seen it occur other than light itself but what might it look like to the human eye to see something jump to light speed or some speed in that range? Again things we don't understand appear to be spooky just like solar eclipses once were up until when 800 years ago or so? That is my point is that we may not know as much as we think we know. Hell more humans have been to the moon than depths of the ocean beyond a mile down. Probes sent to the deepest depths have found life on earth that has challenged the life as we know it notion over the past 20 years.

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We know that certain microbe extremophiles can travel through space and survive, which raises the possibility that life originated elsewhere and was seeded here by meteorites, asteroids or even comets.

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My understanding is that meteorites, asteroids and comets are contained within their sun's gravitational pull, so any such seeding would still be intrasolar in range.

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Most objects coming our way originate from from the Kuiper belt, but there are interstellar objects traveling through space.

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Do the math, keeping mind how many forces would sterilize anything that passes through.

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Radiation is fierce. It will be unlikely that humans can travel in space much beyond Mars, There'll be a fair amount of astronaut attrition.

Aliens Wouldn't Need Warp Drives to Take Over an Entire Galaxy, Simulation Suggests https://t.co/6x4IqbyOQT

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