President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

Does he now think we should be there forever?

Other than that, what would Lowery propose? The problem is the author just has no credibility anymore. What he had left, he gave it all away over the past 4 years. That is something commentators such as Lowery just need to realize at this point.

About freaking time. Bring them home.

PartyBear said:

---

Does he now think we should be there forever?

Other than that, what would Lowery propose? The problem is the author just has no credibility anymore. What he had left, he gave it all away over the past 4 years. That is something commentators such as Lowery just need to realize at this point.

---

This ^^^

Chipoople said:

---

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.

---

Agree on all points

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

BaylorBJM said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

I am taking a screen shot of Doc and BJM basically agreeing on something (and BJM not putting that LOL emoticon on his post. )

---

Haha. Less government, less war, less restrictions on business. If you believe in those, we're square.

Doc and I disagree on a lot but I'd imagine we agree on just as much.

---

You're speaking my language!

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

Chipoople said:

---

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.

---

They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chipoople said:

---

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.

---

They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.

---

The exodus from Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion and the subsequent power vacuum changed the nation dramatically, including most "Westernized" Afghans fleeing West. Today, the Taliban is the government and culture of choice for most Afghans because that's what the country's populace has become.

The only question to be asked now is can we establish enough of a relationship to keep the Taliban from supporting al-Qaeda and/or ISIS efforts against us?

ATL Bear said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Chipoople said:

---

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.

---

They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.

---

The exodus from Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion and the subsequent power vacuum changed the nation dramatically, including most "Westernized" Afghans fleeing West. Today, the Taliban is the government and culture of choice for most Afghans because that's what the country's populace has become.

The only question to be asked now is can we establish enough of a relationship to keep the Taliban from supporting al-Qaeda and/or ISIS efforts against us?

---

That may be.

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

Exactly right .........the US is clearly in decline.

However getting out of this particular hell hole is long overdue .

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.

---

Those religious views would be replaced by critical justice as a religion.

I agree with you on many issues, TS, but I think Biden's right on this.

You can't save people from themselves. Just like, in America, we are likely about to go through a period of minority, one-party rule by Trump Republicans and learn just how badly that works for most Americans (the TX energy grid is only one example of bad policy ideas that will do lasting harm and take a heavy economic toll), Afghanistan is going to have to figure out how to deal with the Taliban. Or not.

And we have our own Taliban movements to deal with. Or not: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/11/mercy-culture-church/

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.

---

So you're advocating a 60-year occupation?

The lesson here is to avoid such conflicts in the first place, not to double and triple down on an obvious quagmire for two more generations.

You can't force people to share your values. That applies both domestically and abroad.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I agree with you on many issues, TS, but I think Biden's right on this.

You can't save people from themselves. Just like, in America, we are likely about to go through a period of minority, one-party rule by Trump Republicans and learn just how badly that works for most Americans (the TX energy grid is only one example of bad policy ideas that will do lasting harm and take a heavy economic toll), Afghanistan is going to have to figure out how to deal with the Taliban. Or not.

And we have our own Taliban movements to deal with. Or not: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/11/mercy-culture-church/

---

I don't agree with the way he is pulling out, not that we shouldn't withdraw. Abandoning those who allied with us to certain death is wrong in my opinion. Cut and run is the wrong way to leave.

Osodecentx said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.

---

The reason we're in decline is because of the efforts to diminish religious values

---

Back when "religious values" were promoted as a basis for American culture (one nation, under God), we had Jim Crow laws and then strict segregation in the South, women didn't have equal opportunities for education or employment, contraception was outlawed in some states, rape was generally viewed as the fault of the woman, drunk driving was a misdeanor and considered an "accident," state colleges supported with taxpayer dollars could reject black applicants, and belting kids with a leather strap was an accepted form of punishment.

---

You need to change churches.
Religious people led the civil rights movement. Get a copy of Eyes on the Prize by Williams

---

Black churches led the Civil Rights movement.

Most white churches wouldn't allow Black families to worship there. I was a kid in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s and my church refused to allow Black people in. So much for "red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight."

You're deflecting.

My point is that we have never been one nation under God. Like all nations, we have an ugly history of abusing immigrants and minorities and people we've conquered (native Americans) both thorugh the law and despite the law.

The idea that the past was some kind of Christian-values utopia that we've now moved away from is bunk.

What has changed significantly is that a lot more people went to church in the past. That change, where churches are losing members, is not due to a decline in values. Policy-wise, we're trying to treat all people, including women and minorities, better than we did in the past. It's due to the politicization of churches and the rank hypocrisy of religious leaders who lie about, ignore or cover up child abuse by pedophile priests / pastors, commit financial fraud and cheer false prophets like Trump on for waving a Bible upside down from the steps of a church he didn't belong to.

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

I agree with you on many issues, TS, but I think Biden's right on this.

You can't save people from themselves. Just like, in America, we are likely about to go through a period of minority, one-party rule by Trump Republicans and learn just how badly that works for most Americans (the TX energy grid is only one example of bad policy ideas that will do lasting harm and take a heavy economic toll), Afghanistan is going to have to figure out how to deal with the Taliban. Or not.

And we have our own Taliban movements to deal with. Or not: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/11/mercy-culture-church/

---

I don't agree with the way he is pulling out, not that we shouldn't withdraw. Abandoning those who allied with us to certain death is wrong in my opinion. Cut and run is the wrong way to leave.

---

Aren't we offering asylum to those who allied with us?

Here's one proposal: https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-evacuating-our-allies-from-afghanistan/

---

It's my understanding that only a few have been vetted and there is a backlog due to red tape and disagreement within the administration as to who should get through, and disagreement over where to take them and things like health care. The concern is the Taliban is advancing faster than the U.S. can process them.

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

I agree with you on many issues, TS, but I think Biden's right on this.

You can't save people from themselves. Just like, in America, we are likely about to go through a period of minority, one-party rule by Trump Republicans and learn just how badly that works for most Americans (the TX energy grid is only one example of bad policy ideas that will do lasting harm and take a heavy economic toll), Afghanistan is going to have to figure out how to deal with the Taliban. Or not.

And we have our own Taliban movements to deal with. Or not: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/11/mercy-culture-church/

---

I don't agree with the way he is pulling out, not that we shouldn't withdraw. Abandoning those who allied with us to certain death is wrong in my opinion. Cut and run is the wrong way to leave.

---

Aren't we offering asylum to those who allied with us?

Here's one proposal: https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-evacuating-our-allies-from-afghanistan/

---

They'll be dead by the time this paperwork gets through. See the stories of Taliban already targeting Afghani Air Force personnel in daytime killings. This is why the US gets a ****ty world view opinion in many areas. We did the same thing with the Kurds in 1991.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

CHP Bear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702

---

"If", "Unexpected"

---

Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?

---

Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?

---

We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.

---

It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.

---

This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

---

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.

---

The reason we're in decline is because of the efforts to diminish religious values

---

Back when "religious values" were promoted as a basis for American culture (one nation, under God), we had Jim Crow laws and then strict segregation in the South, women didn't have equal opportunities for education or employment, contraception was outlawed in some states, rape was generally viewed as the fault of the woman, drunk driving was a misdeanor and considered an "accident," state colleges supported with taxpayer dollars could reject black applicants, and belting kids with a leather strap was an accepted form of punishment.

---

You need to change churches.
Religious people led the civil rights movement. Get a copy of Eyes on the Prize by Williams

---

Black churches led the Civil Rights movement.

Most white churches wouldn't allow Black families to worship there. I was a kid in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s and my church refused to allow Black people in. So much for "red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight."

You're deflecting.

My point is that we have never been one nation under God. Like all nations, we have an ugly history of abusing immigrants and minorities and people we've conquered (native Americans) both thorugh the law and despite the law.

The idea that the past was some kind of Christian-values utopia that we've now moved away from is bunk.

What has changed significantly is that a lot more people went to church in the past. That change, where churches are losing members, is not due to a decline in values. Policy-wise, we're trying to treat all people, including women and minorities, better than we did in the past. It's due to the politicization of churches and the rank hypocrisy of religious leaders who lie about, ignore or cover up child abuse by pedophile priests / pastors, commit financial fraud and cheer false prophets like Trump on for waving a Bible upside down from the steps of a church he didn't belong to.

---

Black churches did lead out. Do you know of any major denominational churches that won't allow Black families in the church? I don't. Don't you think that is an improvement?

I agree that America has never been one nation under God and she has some sad chapters in her history. I've never claimed America was a Christian values utopia, but we're sure not getting any closer now.

All mainline denominations are losing parishioners. Most of the increased politicization to which you refer (and I agree there has been increased politicization) has been on the liberal side of the argument. Homosexual marriage, transgenders, and abortion are just 3 examples. In those churches it is no longer good enough to embrace homosexuals, they expect me to embrace the lifestyle and say it is normal. Those churches, most churches actually, tare silent in the cases of a deacon/elder having an affair (while in leadership) or young adults (POSSLQ) cohabiting. This isn't God's best for the POSSLQs, homosexual, or transgenders.

So in summary, the Christian church has never been perfect and never will be. If that is your standard, then all fall short. My observation is that most are striving to become better and more accurately reflect the love of Jesus.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

A doddering old man with dementia is in charge. What could possibly go wrong? Afghanistan will be the least of our problems.

---

In fairness to Joe I doubt very seriously he is making the final decision about anything of this level.

I wouldn't let him answer the phones in an insurance agency, much less make these high level policy decisions.