Biden Is Already Fumbling the Afghanistan Withdrawal

3,210 Views | 52 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by jupiter
J.B.Katz
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Osodecentx said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

TexasScientist said:

Osodecentx said:

TexasScientist said:

Osodecentx said:

CHP Bear said:

Osodecentx said:

CHP Bear said:

TexasScientist said:

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702
"If", "Unexpected"
Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?
Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?
We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.


It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.
This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.
The reason we're in decline is because of the efforts to diminish religious values
Back when "religious values" were promoted as a basis for American culture (one nation, under God), we had Jim Crow laws and then strict segregation in the South, women didn't have equal opportunities for education or employment, contraception was outlawed in some states, rape was generally viewed as the fault of the woman, drunk driving was a misdeanor and considered an "accident," state colleges supported with taxpayer dollars could reject black applicants, and belting kids with a leather strap was an accepted form of punishment.
You need to change churches.
Religious people led the civil rights movement. Get a copy of Eyes on the Prize by Williams
Black churches led the Civil Rights movement.

Most white churches wouldn't allow Black families to worship there. I was a kid in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s and my church refused to allow Black people in. So much for "red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight."

You're deflecting.

My point is that we have never been one nation under God. Like all nations, we have an ugly history of abusing immigrants and minorities and people we've conquered (native Americans) both thorugh the law and despite the law.

The idea that the past was some kind of Christian-values utopia that we've now moved away from is bunk.

What has changed significantly is that a lot more people went to church in the past. That change, where churches are losing members, is not due to a decline in values. Policy-wise, we're trying to treat all people, including women and minorities, better than we did in the past. It's due to the politicization of churches and the rank hypocrisy of religious leaders who lie about, ignore or cover up child abuse by pedophile priests / pastors, commit financial fraud and cheer false prophets like Trump on for waving a Bible upside down from the steps of a church he didn't belong to.
Black churches did lead out. Do you know of any major denominational churches that won't allow Black families in the church? I don't. Don't you think that is an improvement?

I agree that America has never been one nation under God and she has some sad chapters in her history. I've never claimed America was a Christian values utopia, but we're sure not getting any closer now.

All mainline denominations are losing parishioners. Most of the increased politicization to which you refer (and I agree there has been increased politicization) has been on the liberal side of the argument. Homosexual marriage, transgenders, and abortion are just 3 examples. In those churches it is no longer good enough to embrace homosexuals, they expect me to embrace the lifestyle and say it is normal. Those churches, most churches actually, tare silent in the cases of a deacon/elder having an affair (while in leadership) or young adults (POSSLQ) cohabiting. This isn't God's best for the POSSLQs, homosexual, or transgenders.

So in summary, the Christian church has never been perfect and never will be. If that is your standard, then all fall short. My observation is that most are striving to become better and more accurately reflect the love of Jesus.
Thanks for a thoughtful and not inflammatory response.

I honestly don't believe any church expects you "to embrace a lifstyle and say it is normal." If one tenet of your religious beliefs is that homosexuality is a sin and another is that abortion should never be permitted under any circumstance, because God should make all decisions about reproduction (which is the way I'd characterize the Catholic doctrine), there are plenty of churches where leaders and members share your beliefs. They remain free to enforce those beliefs by refusing to ordain homosexuals and even kicking people who are openly gay and unapologetic about that out of the congregation. Women who go to those churches are free to act on their beliefs about abortion.

One reason churches are losing members is that leaders of these churches too often don't practice in private what they preach from the pulpit. Remember the pentacostal preacher from CO Springs who got outed for hiring gay prostitutes? "It's OK for me but not for thee" is not a message that resonates with people under 40.

In a nation with separation of church and state, however, those beliefs should not be codified into law.

Republicans face a conundrum; they present themselves as the party of personal freedom, but then try to limit that freedom to gun rights and other conservative-approved activities, while imposing limits on other personal freedoms, like someone's decision to be openly gay and chose a same-sex spouse or a woman's decision to end a pregnancy. In for a penny, in for a pound with the personal freedom tenet; you either believe in it and accept that this will mean some people are free to commit sins you don't approve of, or you don't, in which case you shouldn't whinge about masks, social distancing, reasonable gun regulations, school systems requiring students to be vaccinated for a host of illnesses from polio to typhoid to diptheria to tetanus to measles.
Doc Holliday
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J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

J.B.Katz said:

Osodecentx said:

TexasScientist said:

Osodecentx said:

TexasScientist said:

Osodecentx said:

CHP Bear said:

Osodecentx said:

CHP Bear said:

TexasScientist said:

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702
"If", "Unexpected"
Does anyone believe the Taliban are not going to take over Afghanistan when we're gone?
Wonder what the over and under is for executed interpreters and family members?
We need to get as many out as possible. We evacuated many Vietnamese who fought with us.


It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan. They most cerainly have been given a death sentence by the Biden administration.
This is a Trump policy, too.
It will be inexcusible, a tragedy, and a travesty of justice in terms of what is fair and right to those who have risked their lives relying on U.S. assurances and ability to bring change to Afghanistan.
That is where the USA is right now. It's what nation in decline looks like

It would take at least three generations of educating children about sciences, mathmatics, world history, democracy and captialism in an effort to break or moderate their fanatical religious views.
The reason we're in decline is because of the efforts to diminish religious values
Back when "religious values" were promoted as a basis for American culture (one nation, under God), we had Jim Crow laws and then strict segregation in the South, women didn't have equal opportunities for education or employment, contraception was outlawed in some states, rape was generally viewed as the fault of the woman, drunk driving was a misdeanor and considered an "accident," state colleges supported with taxpayer dollars could reject black applicants, and belting kids with a leather strap was an accepted form of punishment.
You need to change churches.
Religious people led the civil rights movement. Get a copy of Eyes on the Prize by Williams
Black churches led the Civil Rights movement.

Most white churches wouldn't allow Black families to worship there. I was a kid in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s and my church refused to allow Black people in. So much for "red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight."

You're deflecting.

My point is that we have never been one nation under God. Like all nations, we have an ugly history of abusing immigrants and minorities and people we've conquered (native Americans) both thorugh the law and despite the law.

The idea that the past was some kind of Christian-values utopia that we've now moved away from is bunk.

What has changed significantly is that a lot more people went to church in the past. That change, where churches are losing members, is not due to a decline in values. Policy-wise, we're trying to treat all people, including women and minorities, better than we did in the past. It's due to the politicization of churches and the rank hypocrisy of religious leaders who lie about, ignore or cover up child abuse by pedophile priests / pastors, commit financial fraud and cheer false prophets like Trump on for waving a Bible upside down from the steps of a church he didn't belong to.
Black churches did lead out. Do you know of any major denominational churches that won't allow Black families in the church? I don't. Don't you think that is an improvement?

I agree that America has never been one nation under God and she has some sad chapters in her history. I've never claimed America was a Christian values utopia, but we're sure not getting any closer now.

All mainline denominations are losing parishioners. Most of the increased politicization to which you refer (and I agree there has been increased politicization) has been on the liberal side of the argument. Homosexual marriage, transgenders, and abortion are just 3 examples. In those churches it is no longer good enough to embrace homosexuals, they expect me to embrace the lifestyle and say it is normal. Those churches, most churches actually, tare silent in the cases of a deacon/elder having an affair (while in leadership) or young adults (POSSLQ) cohabiting. This isn't God's best for the POSSLQs, homosexual, or transgenders.

So in summary, the Christian church has never been perfect and never will be. If that is your standard, then all fall short. My observation is that most are striving to become better and more accurately reflect the love of Jesus.
Republicans face a conundrum; they present themselves as the party of personal freedom, but then try to limit that freedom to gun rights and other conservative-approved activities, while imposing limits on other personal freedoms, like someone's decision to be openly gay and chose a same-sex spouse
How are they imposing limits on someone's decision to be openly gay and choice of a same-sex spouse?
CHP Bear
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TexasScientist said:

J.B.Katz said:

TexasScientist said:

J.B.Katz said:

I agree with you on many issues, TS, but I think Biden's right on this.

You can't save people from themselves. Just like, in America, we are likely about to go through a period of minority, one-party rule by Trump Republicans and learn just how badly that works for most Americans (the TX energy grid is only one example of bad policy ideas that will do lasting harm and take a heavy economic toll), Afghanistan is going to have to figure out how to deal with the Taliban. Or not.

And we have our own Taliban movements to deal with. Or not: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/11/mercy-culture-church/
I don't agree with the way he is pulling out, not that we shouldn't withdraw. Abandoning those who allied with us to certain death is wrong in my opinion. Cut and run is the wrong way to leave.
Aren't we offering asylum to those who allied with us?

Here's one proposal: https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-evacuating-our-allies-from-afghanistan/
It's my understanding that only a few have been vetted and there is a backlog due to red tape and disagreement within the administration as to who should get through, and disagreement over where to take them and things like health care. The concern is the Taliban is advancing faster than the U.S. can process them.
My question. Why wasn't the process started long ago? Taliban advancements should have been addressed in plan A not reaction plan Z. Doesn't take rocket science to figure out the provinces are ripe for the picking. Red Tape = CYA. One phone call from the POTUS could solve the Red Tape issue.
ShooterTX
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D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.
ShooterTX
TexasScientist
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ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.
That's why it would take a least three generations of US commitments to education, teaching democracy and capitalism, and cultural freedom to bring lasting change. It has to start with the children through educating them. So far we're not willing to make that kind of commitment.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
ShooterTX
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TexasScientist said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.
That's why it would take a least three generations of US commitments to education, teaching democracy and capitalism, and cultural freedom to bring lasting change. It has to start with the children through educating them. So far we're not willing to make that kind of commitment.

I would say that we have a LONG way to go in educating our OWN children, before we are ready to attempt to educate a foreign culture.
We are turning out "graduates" who can barely read, have no ability to reason or think, and who hate America & Western Civilization. If we are failing our own society to this extreme level, there is no hope we can transform a society which has been hostile to Western Civ for thousands of years.
ShooterTX
D. C. Bear
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ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.


I'm not, but you are right that Afghanistan's "modern" nature was not nearly as "modern" as Iran's. Afghanistan did, at least, educate women back in the day.
ShooterTX
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D. C. Bear said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.


I'm not, but you are right that Afghanistan's "modern" nature was not nearly as "modern" as Iran's. Afghanistan did, at least, educate women back in the day.
Yeah, that was one of those "attempts at modernization" that I was referring to earlier. Best I can tell, it lasted maybe 12 years.

The reality is that non-western cultures just cannot seem to live with individual liberty and democracy. They always seem to gravitate back to tribalism, totalitarianism, theocracies, absolute monarchies, etc.

Very, very sad.
ShooterTX
TexasScientist
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ShooterTX said:

TexasScientist said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.
That's why it would take a least three generations of US commitments to education, teaching democracy and capitalism, and cultural freedom to bring lasting change. It has to start with the children through educating them. So far we're not willing to make that kind of commitment.

I would say that we have a LONG way to go in educating our OWN children, before we are ready to attempt to educate a foreign culture.
We are turning out "graduates" who can barely read, have no ability to reason or think, and who hate America & Western Civilization. If we are failing our own society to this extreme level, there is no hope we can transform a society which has been hostile to Western Civ for thousands of years.
It's a question of do we want to be a stabilizing force in the world. Education is the only thing that will break or moderate their religious dogma. We do have a long way to go in educating people in this country. That's what I mean by we don't have the will to stick with it. It's no coincidence that the highest rates of covid resurgence are in the poorest and least educated states.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.


I'm not, but you are right that Afghanistan's "modern" nature was not nearly as "modern" as Iran's. Afghanistan did, at least, educate women back in the day.
Yeah, that was one of those "attempts at modernization" that I was referring to earlier. Best I can tell, it lasted maybe 12 years.

The reality is that non-western cultures just cannot seem to live with individual liberty and democracy. They always seem to gravitate back to tribalism, totalitarianism, theocracies, absolute monarchies, etc.

Very, very sad.
Yep. That is a description of what is going on in the US now. We're not exempt from a failed democracy.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
D. C. Bear
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ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.


I'm not, but you are right that Afghanistan's "modern" nature was not nearly as "modern" as Iran's. Afghanistan did, at least, educate women back in the day.
Yeah, that was one of those "attempts at modernization" that I was referring to earlier. Best I can tell, it lasted maybe 12 years.

The reality is that non-western cultures just cannot seem to live with individual liberty and democracy. They always seem to gravitate back to tribalism, totalitarianism, theocracies, absolute monarchies, etc.

Very, very sad.


That's not really true unless you define "individual liberty and democracy" as exclusively western. There are "non western" cultures that do just fine with individual liberty and democracy.
ShooterTX
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TexasScientist said:

ShooterTX said:

TexasScientist said:

ShooterTX said:

D. C. Bear said:

Chipoople said:

Coalition soldiers were basically undefeated on the battlefield and now they're gonna withdraw and the Taliban is going to immediately take back over.

Sometimes you just have to accept that the people of a culture or country largely prefer dictatorship/religious oligarchy and don't want democracy.

Imposing western ideas and philosophy on a completely different culture was never going to work.


They used to be a pretty westernized country. I do not believe that the most Afghans would choose the Taliban terror if they had a choice.


I believe you are confusing Afghanistan with Iran.
Afghanistan has never been westernized. It's always been a Muslim hell hole for a really long time. Many people have tried to bring modernization, but it has always failed. The people end up rejecting it and going back to tribal ways. Without western civilization, there cannot be democracy or progress. As long as they continue to choose Islam, they will never be free... sad but true.
That's why it would take a least three generations of US commitments to education, teaching democracy and capitalism, and cultural freedom to bring lasting change. It has to start with the children through educating them. So far we're not willing to make that kind of commitment.

I would say that we have a LONG way to go in educating our OWN children, before we are ready to attempt to educate a foreign culture.
We are turning out "graduates" who can barely read, have no ability to reason or think, and who hate America & Western Civilization. If we are failing our own society to this extreme level, there is no hope we can transform a society which has been hostile to Western Civ for thousands of years.
It's a question of do we want to be a stabilizing force in the world. Education is the only thing that will break or moderate their religious dogma. We do have a long way to go in educating people in this country. That's what I mean by we don't have the will to stick with it. It's no coincidence that the highest rates of covid resurgence are in the poorest and least educated states.
It is such a difficult thing. Our leaders didn't take Bin Laden seriously, after multiple attacks overseas until 9/11... and then the whole nation wanted revenge.

In reality, i think we should avoid having to go attack another nation again, by selectively slaughtering the terrorists in their homes. Let's not sugar coat anything... we need to straight up murder the leaders of terrorist organizations like ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Queda, etc. Never let them grow like they did in the past. Drone strikes, assassination,... whatever it takes. If we ever let them grow long enough and strong enough to strike inside our borders... that is our own foolish mistake. There is no room for diplomacy with these America hating terrorist groups, until they realize that we will murder them if they do not comply. It's not really diplomacy, it's surrender by them. And I couldn't give a rat's ass what people in France or Belgium think about it.
ShooterTX
jupiter
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jupiter
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Afghanistan in the Era of Fentanyl

Considering Potential Economic and Political Impacts of a Collapse in Demand for Afghanistan's Opiates

Quote:

Afghanistan is the world's largest producer of illegal opium poppy and is a key source for heroin markets across Europe and Asia. For decades, illegal opiates have helped sustain farmers and workers in rural Afghanistan while funding nonstate actors and insurgent groups. Although many policymakers have sought to end this illegal production, few policy analysts have considered the broad impacts of a sudden, lasting end for Afghanistan. Given the rise and dominance of fentanyl and other synthetic opioids as they displace heroin in major drug markets in the Americas, the authors assess what might happen to Afghanistan if demand for its opiates dropped off sharply and permanently. A rapid collapse in the opiate market in Afghanistan could have devastating effects on rural populations and be disruptive to other sectors and actors in the economy. A more gradual decline in demand for Afghan opiates could ease the transition by giving Afghan households and the economy more time to adjust, but it might still result in lower living standards in an already-poor country and add to migratory pressures. The authors discuss how a collapse of the market for Afghan opiates could unfold and what role the international community may need to play should it occur. The loss of demand for Afghan opiates could have significant impacts on economic and political conditions, depending largely on the pace of change.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PEA1088-1.html?utm_campaign=&utm_content=1627325230&utm_medium=rand_social&utm_source=twitter
C. Jordan
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TexasScientist said:

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702
We can't stay there forever.

There will be a Taliban resurgence, you can bet on that. It doesn't matter if we leave now or 100 years from now.

If the Afghans lack the will to fight, then we can't prop them up.
Oldbear83
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J.B. Katz: "Black churches led the Civil Rights movement."

Anabaptists were Black churches?

I agree that Black ministers led the way, but there were always White ministers of conscience as well.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
TexasScientist
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C. Jordan said:

TexasScientist said:

President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw a residual U.S. force could look like an amateurish, unforced error if an expected Taliban resurgence materializes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/opinion-biden-afghan-withdrawal-498702
We can't stay there forever.

There will be a Taliban resurgence, you can bet on that. It doesn't matter if we leave now or 100 years from now.

If the Afghans lack the will to fight, then we can't prop them up.
That's more or less my point. The military has recommended maintaining a minimal force there, of around 3500 as I recall, in a support role which they believe is sufficient to keep the government from failing. It will take two to three generations of education in that part of the world extricate them from primitive beliefs. We need to consider whether its worth the effort in terms of future world stability to make the investment to educate the Muslim people in the Middle East/Asian countries. Otherwise, we definitely need to get out of there.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

J.B. Katz: "Black churches led the Civil Rights movement."

Anabaptists were Black churches?

I agree that Black ministers led the way, but there were always White ministers of conscience as well.


Like John Brown.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
jupiter
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