US continues to jack with Ukraine

2,226 Views | 34 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by HuMcK
GoldMind
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It's looong been time to stop fighting the Cold War.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/20/us-ukraine-russia-pipeline-500334
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Putin owns Biden. What a joke in the eyes of the world we have become these last six months.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
ATL Bear
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Well, they were sure quick to kill our own pipeline project. First day in office I think.
Oldbear83
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ISA 3.1 maskirovka

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
HuMcK
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ATL Bear said:

Well, they were sure quick to kill our own pipeline project. First day in office I think.

Tar sand bitumen is quite a bit different than natural gas. The current Admin hasn't halted any domestic natgas pipeline construction, at least none I'm aware of.
bularry
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this isn't environmental related, this is about Germany needing Russia and the US trying to tap dance down that line...

it is very complex, not sure I know enough to have a good opinion one way or another
sombear
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bularry said:

this isn't environmental related, this is about Germany needing Russia and the US trying to tap dance down that line...

it is very complex, not sure I know enough to have a good opinion one way or another
It's not complex. We could supply Germany and others with all the gas they'll ever need, but the environmental left won't let that happen.
HuMcK
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For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
sombear
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HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
GoldMind
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sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.
HuMcK
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sombear
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GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.
ABC BEAR
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Biden's top advisor on all things Ukraine is a former Ukrainian official, Yuben Jackinoff. He has also closely advised Kamala on our southern border strategy,
quash
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sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
BearFan33
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Sounds like Biden turned the Ukraine money spigot back to on!
GoldMind
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quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.
sombear
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GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Those are US Gov and Industry numbers, one of the few things they agree on!
sombear
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GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Golden Pass and others would come after me but anyone in the industry feel free to chime in. We'd be more than competitive if the gov allowed us to be. Heck we're pretty much there now.
GoldMind
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sombear said:

GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Golden Pass and others would come after me but anyone in the industry feel free to chime in. We'd be more than competitive if the gov allowed us to be. Heck we're pretty much there now.
Wonder if this has anything to do with it

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/27/biden-gas-exports-europe-440678
Redbrickbear
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The US interfering in the Ukraine would be like Russia interfering in Mexico.

Worse actually...Ukraine was once part of Russia.

We need to leave Eastern Europe alone.

Peter Hitchens on the UK going along with the USA in messing around in the Black sea trying to provoke Russia...and how stupid it all is.

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2021/06/peter-hitchens-this-wont-be-popular-but-our-navys-black-sea-antics-were-stupid.html
sombear
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GoldMind said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Golden Pass and others would come after me but anyone in the industry feel free to chime in. We'd be more than competitive if the gov allowed us to be. Heck we're pretty much there now.
Wonder if this has anything to do with it

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/27/biden-gas-exports-europe-440678


That's part of the story, but one glaring omission and one false premise. The omission is that Europe is hypocritical because our environmental standards are much higher than Russia's. Plus, many of these countries have banned gas drilling in their own backyards where they set the standards. The false premise is that Biden has done (or ever would do) anything to help oil and gas . But the article rightly points out that we've been shipping LNG to Europe (and elsewhere) and that cost is not the issue.
Oldbear83
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"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Redbrickbear
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Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Did you forget the 300 history of the Russian empire or are you so uneducated about Eastern Europe that you don't know that Russia has a history before the USSR?

The Romanovs ruled the Ukraine long before the reds.




Oldbear83
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300 years ago there was no USA.

History has its place, but that place does not include denying the future.

Ukraine earned its freedom, it's evil to pretend we should let them be eaten now just because Putin wants it.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Redbrickbear
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Oldbear83 said:

300 years ago there was no USA.

History has its place, but that place does not include denying the future.

Ukraine earned its freedom, it's evil to pretend we should let them be eaten now just because Putin wants it.


No one said Ukraine does not deserve to be independent.

But Ukraine (Little Russia) and Belarus (white Russia) belong in the Russian sphere of influence.

Just as Mexico and the Caribbean area belong in ours.
quash
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Redbrickbear said:

Oldbear83 said:

300 years ago there was no USA.

History has its place, but that place does not include denying the future.

Ukraine earned its freedom, it's evil to pretend we should let them be eaten now just because Putin wants it.


No one said Ukraine does not deserve to be independent.

But Ukraine (Little Russia) and Belarus (white Russia) belong in the Russian sphere of influence.

Just as Mexico and the Caribbean area belong in ours.

The West has long pushed Russia with the recruitment of buffer countries into NATO. You can only poke the bear so much.

When the USSR fell and got out of Cuba the US got exactly what you are describing.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
GoldMind
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Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Kievan Rus, 882AD

Russia was actually part of Ukraine.
Redbrickbear
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GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Kievan Rus, 882AD

Russia was actually part of Ukraine.


Yep, Vladimir the great of Kiev is one of the greatest Russian heroes. Since he brought Christianity to the eastern Slavs.

He is front in center on the "millennium of Russia" national monument.



GoldMind
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We all believe in the same God and his son our savior.
Oldbear83
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Redbrickbear said:

Oldbear83 said:

300 years ago there was no USA.

History has its place, but that place does not include denying the future.

Ukraine earned its freedom, it's evil to pretend we should let them be eaten now just because Putin wants it.


No one said Ukraine does not deserve to be independent.

But Ukraine (Little Russia) and Belarus (white Russia) belong in the Russian sphere of influence.

Just as Mexico and the Caribbean area belong in ours.
Are you suggesting Russia has not tried to influence Mexico and Central America?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83
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GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Kievan Rus, 882AD

Russia was actually part of Ukraine.

Znovu zrobit Ukrayinu velykoyu
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
GoldMind
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Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Kievan Rus, 882AD

Russia was actually part of Ukraine.

Znovu zrobit Ukrayinu velykoyu


Mozda mozes objasniti vise
Oldbear83
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GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

"Ukraine was once part of Russia."

Actually, Ukraine was seized by the USSR as conquest at the end of WW2. It freed itself after the Soviet Union fell, and the people of Ukraine had this silly notion they could rule themselves going forward.

Putin and Biden made sure that dream died.


Kievan Rus, 882AD

Russia was actually part of Ukraine.

Znovu zrobit Ukrayinu velykoyu


Mozda mozes objasniti vise
Uyavit, yakby Putin buv yak Khilari Klinton ...
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
HuMcK
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sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Golden Pass and others would come after me but anyone in the industry feel free to chime in. We'd be more than competitive if the gov allowed us to be. Heck we're pretty much there now.
Wonder if this has anything to do with it

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/27/biden-gas-exports-europe-440678


That's part of the story, but one glaring omission and one false premise. The omission is that Europe is hypocritical because our environmental standards are much higher than Russia's. Plus, many of these countries have banned gas drilling in their own backyards where they set the standards. The false premise is that Biden has done (or ever would do) anything to help oil and gas . But the article rightly points out that we've been shipping LNG to Europe (and elsewhere) and that cost is not the issue.

Correlation is not causation, but that's a significant year over year jump.
quash
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HuMcK said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

quash said:

sombear said:

GoldMind said:

sombear said:

HuMcK said:

For a lot of reasons, chiefly simple geography, we are not able to supply Europe with natural gas at the same price point that Russia can. Has nothing to do with left or right, and lot to do with the Atlantic Ocean that separates Europe from the US.

Russia has been supplying gas to Germany for a while now, Ukraine's loss in this is they no longer get to charge middle-man transportation fees, which are not trivial a pretty much represent the sum total of what little leverage they have to use against Russia.
Yes we can. Competitive price, more stable, and wouldn't prop up Putin. We sell gas overseas now despite all of our self-imposed restrictions/regulations and international restrictions/regulations that adversely affect everyone but Russia.
Show your work.


We export almost 6 tcf to around 35 countries now. Almost half is shipped, and we continue to build/expand LNG terminals despite significantly curtailing gas drilling. US nat gas prices still hovering near record lows with virtually endless supply. Then we have US companies with abundant gas fields overseas.

I suspect he meant, "What is the price to deliver US LNG to Germany? What is the Russian price?"
You also suspect Id like to see something that could be substantiated by a person or group other than himself.


Golden Pass and others would come after me but anyone in the industry feel free to chime in. We'd be more than competitive if the gov allowed us to be. Heck we're pretty much there now.
Wonder if this has anything to do with it

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/27/biden-gas-exports-europe-440678


That's part of the story, but one glaring omission and one false premise. The omission is that Europe is hypocritical because our environmental standards are much higher than Russia's. Plus, many of these countries have banned gas drilling in their own backyards where they set the standards. The false premise is that Biden has done (or ever would do) anything to help oil and gas . But the article rightly points out that we've been shipping LNG to Europe (and elsewhere) and that cost is not the issue.

Correlation is not causation, but that's a significant year over year jump.


There are only two years on the bar graph, but LNG to Europe falls in the spring in summer while it goes up for S. America.

Any chance that winter in S. America being in our summer has anything to do with that?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
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